I'm thinking about installing the Apex DCAEK kit, but I'm not a gunsmith. Should I attempt it.

I'm not new to firearms, but as my safe is full I'm thinking about optimizing some of the items I have. I have a couple 1911s, a couple Sigs, some revolvers, a Ruger 22/45 and a couple polymer pistols, but I've never modified any more than just swapping out grips.

This would be my first real modification or enhancement. I like my M&P but I'd love it if the trigger were better, so I think it's worth it. And I'd like to become more proficient in doing small upgrades like triggers and actions and sights.

Would it be a good idea to start with this project or something simpler? How far off the path could I get if things don't go as well as the YouTube videos show? If I muck things up, how much is it gonna cost me in gunsmithing services to repair what I fixed?

Anyone else start here?

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It's harder if you're stupid

If you use the right punches, and follow the directions, you should have no problems whatsoever. It may help to watch the video and pause it at every step so you don't miss something. Once the gun is apart, it's a matter of swapping the parts and putting it back together. You're not cutting springs, cutting parts, etc. If you're detail-oriented, it should be a piece of cake. I've already replaced my trigger with the AEK one and will be doing the DCAEK kit soon.

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M&P40c/15-22/SD9VE/Mossy500

Watch his YouTube video a couple of times and then have it ready while you do it. I did mine and it was easy enough as long as you follow along.

The anxiety is very reasonable. I believe the installation of the DCAEK is the perfect way to become familiar with the interworkings of the M&P platform. There are a few fiddly bits to deal with, but overall it's not a difficult operation.

With the proper tools and a clean organized work area, you will not get yourself in a jam. Having a computer accessible to watch the youtube videos while you work on the gun is a huge advantage. If all goes wrong you can always un-do it and get back to square one.

I would suggest you perform the kit installation in two stages. Stage one being the installation of everything in the kit with the exception of the trigger return spring. Stage two being the installation of the TRS. I found the most difficult part to be the TRS. By doing the stages, if something is wrong it will be easier to diagnose. Another benefit is you can see/feel the difference in the two springs.

Some would say the most difficult part of the installation is the initial removal of the rear sight. Some guns have very tight rear sights, others not so much. Since this is the starting point of the kit installation, you will know right away of it's going to be a smooth install or not.

I have an M&P FS 45 with the safety, is that an issue for a DIY install?

I'm not sure if they have kits for the guns with safeties or not, or if it makes a difference. My guns don't have thumb safeties so my experience with them is zilch.

My M&P40 full size has both a thumb safety as well as a magazine safety and I had the DCAEK put into it, so the answer should be yes you can put it into a 45!

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59,M&P9,40,40C,357,(2)45,G26

Its very easy

I opted for the DIY for mine, but did put the kit on for a buddies M&P

I have the same dilemma myself. I think i would be able to do the internals but i have no way of taking out the sights. I got a quote for installation from APEX for my 2 compacts and it was way too high. I don't believe they charge $20 to test fire it after the install. So I have no idea what to do.

I am also looking for a better video. I think apex could have done a better instructional. Randy does a good job explaining but the camera man is horrible. I believe the camera man is one of the owners too or something.

Check my YouTube videos, I have long and short videos for all phases of the inner workings of the Shield, including the Apex install. Same install for all M&P's. There is a video showing removal of the rear sight (http://youtu.be/Grwxd16TcUM), and many more. Just search my channel. It is all fairly easy. The rear sight removal/install is the most difficult, but it can be done by being careful and you will not damage the sight.

This is the long complete Apex install video.

M&P Shield Apex Trigger Install (long version) - YouTube


M&P Shield Apex Trigger Install (long version) - YouTube

Thanks for the help. Gonna watch the videos and think it over.

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It's harder if you're stupid

Shuutr:

When swapping the sear (& sear spring), you have to be careful that the existing spring & plunger don't go flying. Do that in a plastic bag ....

The rear sight has a caveat to watch out for the drop safety spring and the little round plate that covers it. Watch for that, but it's not a big problem.

I found that putting the sear block back into the gun was tricky, but not difficult. Seems like it only fits one way, which is good, but finding it is kind of fun....

Getting the trigger spring swapped, and the trigger assembly re-assembled, OTOH, was an exercise in frustration. The little bullet that's included is helpful, but I found that playing all kinds of games with pilot punches was the only way to make it work. (I did three - you'd think I'd have learned .)

If you're going to do the RAM kit, do it while swapping the sear - same stripdown, other than not having to remove the sear from the sear block, so you might as well do it while you've got the sear block out of the gun. The RAM does NOT work with thumb safety models, although I think Scott & Randy have a RAM for those guns - either on the way, or available.

Overall, it's not horribly difficult, but it helps if you have a little experience, and you definitely need that roll pin punch! Don't try it with a standard punch.

I claim that my major skill is getting the grips back on the correct sides of a 1911, but as a 1911 guy you have to be a bit of a gunsmith, or know one pretty well. There's a "fixit" gene in my family that I inherited. By no means perfect, but if you can survive mucking with the sear on a P3AT, the M&P's not a problem. (The P3AT sear is actually farirly simple. Just incredibly counter-intuitive.)

Randy's video was all I needed, btw, but YMMV.

I ran into a perfect "no" example the other week - I built a Dillon XL650 reloading press. It appears that the guy who wrote the manual had done a dozen or so, and just sort of left stuff out. Mostly, I had to dope out how stuff worked before I could install it properly. Not terribly impossible, but for what I paid for that thing ....

"To fix your carburetor:

1. Remove Air Cleaner

2. Fix Carburetor."

Well, almost ....

Anyway, it's not hard. Clean work surface, and a plastic bag if you even think that things will go flying.

Regards,

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Stu.

I appreciate your help

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It's harder if you're stupid

Would one of you guys be able to make a "tool list"? If i attempt to try this, i want to make sure i would have everything i need first instead of having to stop because I am missing something.

For the rear sight removal, if you have a vice on a bench then you can just tap it out with a brass punch. If no vice then look around on eBay and you will find cheap sight pushing tools that guys make and sell. If you go slow and watch what you are doing then they work great. And once you are done you will know what a racket some of these so called "gun smiths" are running for such easy services that take them next to no time.

Is there a cheap sight tool do you recommend? I have never removed my sights nor have i ever owned a sight tool.

Get a set of brass punches. Steel ones will ding your sight up.



C4

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S&W M&P Armorer
S&W LE Distr.

I've done 3 myself. Their not hard, but you need patients. Watch the video's several times. The trigger return spring is the most difficult, it can take time to get everything lined up to re-insert the pins. A bench vise is helpful to take the rear sight off.

Just pay close attention to how you took things apart, this makes things go back easier.

IIRC, doesn't the kit come with the sight tool?

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M&P40c/15-22/SD9VE/Mossy500

No. It does come with a little plastic piece that keeps the striker block spring and plunder in place during removal.



C4

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S&W M&P Armorer
S&W LE Distr.

Ahh, that's what I was thinking about. Thanks

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M&P40c/15-22/SD9VE/Mossy500

The plastic install tool part supplied for the Apex blocker will not help remove the sight and really this part is not necessary to reinstall the sight.


Tools:

Cheap punch set - $8 at Harbor Freight $10 Sears

Vice to hold slide while removing the rear sight

Propane torch or way to heat sight set screw

Hammer

Small screwdriver set (miniature/precision under $8)

Brass punch??? Could use the hardened punches above wrapped in tape to drive the sight out.



To go cheap, you could forget the punch set and file/grind flat the ends of different diameter sized nails.

Use a butane lighter on the set screw. Turn the slide upside down and heat the set screw. Upside down the heat will rise up into the set screw.

May not need the small screwdriver set or brass punch

The rear sight is normally very hard to knock loose, so you still need a bench vise to hold the slide in place for knocking the sight off.

Bob

Anyone ever do this without a vice? If its not possible then I can throw this idea out the window.

A vise of some type is needed, and is cheaper than a sight pusher.

I was able to knock the rear sight out of my M&P45 with a small rubber hammer. It came out easier than I expected, two good whacks. These were the only tools, other than the Apex supplied sight tool, used to install the kit:



Of course, your mileage may vary.

You guys that are using steel punches to remove your sights and are really going to damage them. Stick with brass punches for this: BRASS PUNCH SET | Brownells


I remove tons of M&P rear sights and have never ONCE needed to heat up the threads for screw in the rear. Buy quality tools that don't twist!

This is what I use (1/16X50): Pico Soft Grip Hex Drivers .028 to 1/8 & .9 to 3mm From Wiha



C4

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S&W M&P Armorer
S&W LE Distr.

Even with quality tools, the easiest way to loosen the set screw on the rear sight (red threadlocker) is with a torch lighter.

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M&P40c/15-22/SD9VE/Mossy500

I just completed installing the Apex DCAEK kit. I've never worked on a gun before, am of average mechanical ability and don't have the steadiest of hands. It took me longer than a lot of people because I decided to also replace the sear housing block with the newer version that has the larger spring. My gun has an external safety and I found out the hard way that the "standard" replacement doesn't fit. Scott at Apex was able to help me obtain the correct replacement.

The job didn't require a a blow torch or vice. Properly sized punches are needed. I took a piece of scrap wood and drilled a hole in it. In order to remove the roll pins I simply put the pin over the hole and tapped, sometimes fairly hard, the pins out. For the rear site I drilled a larger hole in the wood to accomodate the width of the sight. I then used a different piece of wood, narrow enough to fit into the sight groove on the slide, placed it against the sight after removing the set screw and hammered out the sight. It worked fine and didn't mark the sight. The wood ideas weren't mine as I saw them on the internet. I'm proof that this can be done as a home project with normal house tools of a hammer, an allen wrench and properly sized punches. I have a head lamp and that helped me see, but the job can certainly be done without one.

Just my experience.

Rich

I am a former Journeyman Tool & Die Maker. I do know the use of hand tools and machinery.

I agree that these guns can all vary. The rear sight on my gun was pressed on VERY tight. It took a lot of force to remove it. I oiled it before reinstalling it and it went on as just as hard as it came off. I have had it off and on several times and it has loosened up a little. There may be some guns that the sight MIGHT just tap out. The only way to know is to try to remove it. Could a wood punch work, sure in some cases. In my case it would have been turned into splinters.

Red Loctite is designed to require heat to loosen. It is made that way to hold parts, prone to loosening, very tight. Can it be removed without heat, maybe. I use quality allen head wrenches, and I would have damaged my wrench, before the screw would loosen. I tried to remove the set screw without heating, but it would not budge.

Removing the roll pins, that hold the trigger and sear assembly in, is easy. Put the gun over a roll of one inch or wider tape laid flat, holding the pin close to the edge of the tape, and tap the pin out.

If you need a vice, there are many inexpensive vices. They also make vices that will clamp to a table. But then you might have to worry about marking the table or the table moving while you are hammering out the sight.

Yes hardened steel punches will damage the sight, but if your wrap the end of the punch in tape, and make sure you never have metal to metal contact, you should not mark the sight. A brass punch is best.

Bob

I just did a M&P 45 FS with thumb safty. Yes the safety can be a real PINTA, when trying to reassemble everything. Plus there is a real small safety block on the left lower side of the sear assembly which interacts with a notch on the safety. This block is loosely held in by a tiny spring. In my case the block and spring launched themselves across the room. I finally found the block , but not the tine spring. M&Ps seem to have a lot of tiny little springs that can pop off and out. I have completely disassembled my Glocks and and replaced trigger assembly and action parts. Somehow they manage to get along without all the tiny springs.

So the vice is only needed to remove the sights right?

Yes, the vice is only "needed" to remove the rear sight. Your definition of "needed", may vary.

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M&P40c/15-22/SD9VE/Mossy500

Refer to post #23 and #24. Only reason i want to be sure is because i really dont feel comfortable punching out my sights especially because i have never done it before. I dont own a vice and rather not punch out my sights so thats why i rather get the sight pusher.

FYI you can rent the proper tool for $25 at SSS: M&P Sight Pusher, Rental

Or you can refer to post #28. YMMV.

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M&P40c/15-22/SD9VE/Mossy500

As the OP, I figured I'd give an update. I watched both the videos suggested here and the four by Apex (dcaek install 1, dcaek install 2, RAM install and USB install) before/while installing the two kits (DCAEK and RAM by apex). It was a great success.

I used a roll pin punch, hammer and a roll of tape (for support & space) to take out the roll pins.

I used a vice, punch and hammer to tap out the rear sight. The punch was wrapped in duct tape. The vice was padded with cardboard and styrofoam (to prevent slide bending) and wrapped in duct tape. I tried using a small wood block to punch out the sight without marring, but no luck. That's when I wrapped the punch in duct tape which seemed to work.

I did use a lighter (standard fireplace lighter, no butane) to soften the loktite in the rear sight screw as my Allen wrench was not the sturdiest out there. No problems there.

I did use tweezers to place the plunger looking thing back in place inside the spring under the sear.

I also used a magnetic bowl to keep the parts from getting lost, but that made the plunger attract to everything when I attempted to reinstall. It wasn't impossible but just another delay in quick re-assembly.

The whole process took 30-40 minutes because I referenced the videos he whole way. I used the dummy slug included to hold the spring in place but it took a couple tries to get it to punch out freely.

Despite some minor moments of frustration, it wasn't bad. The end result was an improvement that moved my M&P full size to the top of my list as a range gun now that the trigger is smooth and the reset is there. It was worth it.

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It's harder if you're stupid

Perfect, good job.

Excellent! Kinda gives you a whole new perspective when you do it yourself eh?

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M&P40c/15-22/SD9VE/Mossy500

Thanks for sharing your experience. I received my DCAEK & RAM from Grant yesterday. Hopefully I'll have a chance to do the install tomorrow evening.

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I have the DCAEK and RAM on order. You guys think it is worth adding the AEK trigger to the package?

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Kind of digging up an old thread...

Anyways, no experience with the AEK trigger. I just installed the DCAEK and wouldn't change anything. RAM would help with making the reset more audible, but I feel it has a nice positive reset now anyways after USB was installed.

Note to all future installers: After placing slide in vise, just use a penny for your punch to remove the rear sights, no need to purchase a sight pushing tool. I wrapped Abe in masking tape and tapped him with a hammer. Viola. Money saved for more accessories.

I installed the DCAEK on my .45. I have been a police armorer for many years (not for M&P) and it was still a bit of a pain. You really have to hold your mouth right.

The original trigger was one of the worst I have ever felt in a handgun. The kit made a whole new gun out of the M&P

My rear sight was finger tight after loosening the set screw.

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Cliff
CCSO, FPD ret, USN ret.

Very helpful thread. Something I may consider for my m&p 9 just ordered.

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