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Old 12-15-2012, 01:51 PM
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Question What is a good alternative to the Shield?

Looks like after the dent to the pocketbook from Xmas has settled a bit we are both going to take a CHL class together. It is only a matter of time before we are lucky enough to find an M&P9 Shield but in the meantime we were hoping for some suggestions for another similar carry gun. I've only looked at a couple smaller guns so far. The only two I have peeked at are the LC9 and the Nano. I like the general size of those. My brother really likes his LCP but I'm not so sure I want a pocket gun. We are leaning towards a thinner gun and would kind of prefer a 9mm but are open. Once again your suggestions and help are greatly appreciated!
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:57 PM
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If you can find one, I'd go with a CS9. There are a couple in the classifieds, but I forget the details.

I like the look of the Shield and when supply catches up with demand, I might buy one. Still, I think the 3rd generation semis are overall superior firearms. If you can find one of the rare double action only versions, they are slightly more narrow in the slide area. Which makes them just that much more concealable.
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:59 PM
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I like the Nano and the Kahrs. The Kahrs offer some larger ones as well.
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:04 PM
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Kahr - PM9/CM9, or the CW9. If you don't mind a little more weight, then the MK9.

Rob
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:06 PM
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I looked at the Nano and LC9, and ended up going to the Kahr PM9. I can actually shoot my Kahr more accurately than my M&P9C, and it's much more comfortable to wear and conceal. The Kahr has a l-o-n-g trigger pull that some may not like, but I find it smooth and predictable, excellent for this use. The CM9 (I think that's it) is less expensive than the PM9.
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:21 PM
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How are the Kahr's on price? I am going to try and do some window shopping today.
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:22 PM
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I have a Kahr CW9 that I really like. I believe it's slightly smaller than a Shield, too. The CW9 is a little less than a Shield, but only comes with one mag. By the time you buy another mag, prices are very close.

Last edited by Broker50; 12-15-2012 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:29 PM
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I highly recommend the Smith & Wesson M&P 40C. I have a 9mm Shield (for my Wife) but I carry the M&P 40C. Price is about the same but you get 10 rounds instead of 7 or 8 rounds. 40S&W has more stopping power than the 9mm. Ammo is slightly more expensive than 9mm but your(and mine) life is worth the extra dollars.
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Old 12-15-2012, 03:30 PM
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I have both a Kahr CM9 and CW45. The CW34 and CW9 are comparable in size. I usually CCW the CM9 unless I have a long shirt on because I use OWB holsters. The Kahra are well made and dependable.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snubbycollector View Post
A 1911 45 acp of course!
Hey i thought u were a "snubby collector". Maybe u should send that 1911 my way and let me take care of it for you.

As for a Shield alternative......I dont think one exists, at least not that I have found. But as always, a weapon is better than non weapon.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:43 PM
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Don't get fooled by 'Feel' alone. Try to find someone who rents the pistols that will fall into your short list. Many that feel great at the counter have triggers that you might not like, or recoil that's snappier than what you want to put up with in a carry pistol.

The LC9 has a very long DAO revolver style pull and a snappy recoil. Same with many of the single-stacks weighing less than 18oz (just something to ponder). Many quickly dumped their LC9s when they got their Shield. Many Kahr and Nano owners did the same.

I've heard pro & con about the Nano. Seems like people either love it, or hate it. If you can scrounge up about $600, the Sig P938 is a very nice mini 1911 and from recent reports, it looks like Kimber has worked out the problems it had last year with the Solo.

By all means, let your Wife pick out her own pistol. Whatever you choose for her, no matter how good it is, will be WRONG.

Since it's going to be a carry pistol, you need to take your time and make sure you'll actually feel good enough with it that you'll actually carry it, rather than leaving it home (for any variety of reasons).
Good luck in your hunt!
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:45 PM
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Depends on how much you want to spend and what type of pistol you want. Of the striker fired single stack 9MM pistols you have the Walther PPS and Kahr PM9 / CM9 among the best. If you prefer hammer fired and / or 1911 style you can look at the Ruger LC9 and Sig Sauer P938 or one of the other Sigs available. Many different types to choose from, all quality pistols. Boils down to personal preference.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:46 PM
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You can buy a CW9 for $350-375, if you shop hard. I got one for $335 awhile ago, but have not seen one quite that cheap lately.
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:06 PM
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What are the key differences between the CW9 and the PM9? Any notable cons to either?
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:16 PM
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1. Sights: CW has a pinned front sight, PM has a drift adjustable front sight (which is easier to swap for night sights)

2. Rifling: CW has convential cut rifling, PM has "match grade" polygonal rifling (both have Lothar Walther stainless barrels)

3. Slide: CW has fewer maching operations on the exterior and uses more angular edges, PM9 is more rounded

4. Slide stop lever: CW has a MIM lever, PM has machined lever

5. Rollmarking: CW has simple engraving of model and manufacturer, PM has actual rollmark

6. Magazine: CW includes one magazine, PM includes two


CW9
Length: 5.9"
Height: 4.5"
Thickness: 0.90"
Weight: 15.8 ounces w/o magazine (magazine weighs 1.9 ounces)
Barrel: 3.6" stainless steel with conventional rifling, 1:10" RH twist
Sights: drift adjustable white bar-dot combat rear sight, pinned polymer front sight
Capacity: 7+1 (single magazine included)
Ammunition: 9mm +P rated

PM9
Length: 5.3"
Height: 4.0"
Thickness: 0.90"
Weight: 14 ounces w/o magazine (magazine weighs 1.9 ounces)
Barrel: 3.0" stainless steel with polygonal rifling, 1:10" RH twist
Sights: drift adjustable white bar-dot combat sights, tritium optional
Capacity: 6+1 with flush floorplate, 7+1 with magazine extension (both magazines included)
Ammunition: 9mm +P rated

Related by Shanzlik out of TX on TheFiringline forum.
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:44 PM
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The Ruger LC9 has a long trigger pull, has already been mentioned, and I'm not a fan (I had one.) Ruger makes a compact gun, the SR9c, which is a good pistol and it very inexpensive compared to others in this category.

Kahr guns, IMO, have very good triggers...they may be long, but they feel very smooth and light. You can get a CW9 for a very reasonable price, but the mags are (IMO) expensive...but then, what mags aren't these days?

S&W M&P9c is a very good choice, and is a very good carry gun. You have the advantage of higher capacity, interchangeable back straps, and you can use the full size M&P 9 magazines in the compact, for shooting at the range, etc.

I can't comment on the Beretta Nano, since I've never owned one...but I have had other Berettas, and their CS is poor. The 92FS/M9 is very reliable, however, but it's not in the category you are looking for.

Taurus makes some small carry guns, like the PT709 Slim, but I wouldn't recommend any Taurus products (after having owned a few.)

You could consider a Glock 26, but it is a fairly chunky handgun, compared to the M&P9c or especially the Shield.

Bersa has out a slim 9mm, the BP9CC, which is comparable to the Shield, and reasonably priced. I owned one very briefly, and then traded it...mine had a trigger that was scary light. I mean, it couldn't have been 2 pounds! That's just too light for a gun with no safety. They are noted for having a light trigger, and maybe mine was just an unusual case, since at the time the LGS didn't have any others to compare it with. I would definitely dry fire it in the store, if you consider that model!
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:59 PM
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Since I've had no luck getting my hands on a M&P Shield and I'm starting to get tired of waiting, I'm considering the Bersa BP9cc and the Kahr CW9. I've heard great things about both of these guns, the major difference between the two are the triggers.

The Kahr CW9 has a longer pull but is said to be quite smooth (6-7lbs?), and the Bersa BP9cc has a light trigger (3-4lbs? maybe too light for some peoples carry preference?) with very little take up then an immediate break and minimal reset. The Bersa comes with 2 mags and I've seen it priced from $340 to $380. I've handled both of these guns and they both felt great. Although I haven't shot either one of them so I cannot comment on that, maybe someone else can?

M&P Shield 9mm Specs:
Caliber: 9mm
Capacity: 7 & 8
Action: Striker Fire
Barrel Length: 3.1"
Front Sight: White Dot
Rear Sight: White 2-Dot
Weight: 19.0 oz
Length: 6.1"
Height: 4.6"
Width: .95"

Trigger Pull: 6.5 lbs. +/-

Bersa Specs:
Caliber: 9MM
Capacity: 8+1
Action: Short reset DAO
Barrel Length: 3.3"
Front Sight: White Dot
Rear Sight: White 2-Dot
Weight: 21.5 oz.
Length: 6.35"
Height: 4.8"
Width: .94
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:00 PM
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Depending on how you define carry gun.....You might want to consider a used 3913 or 3953. They are bigger but they are darn nice guns....these were the compact guns of a few years ago before the more plastic ones took over. Utterly dependable.
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:01 PM
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I had a Shield in 9mm but was made an offer I could not refuse, so it went. I recently shot a friend's SA XD-S and I immediately liked it. Why? It is in .45 ACP, it is very concealable, it is reasonably priced, it is accurate and very manageable. I love mine, have put around 100 rounds of various ammo through it with ZERO failures. Another alternative is the G36, which is less bulky than the G25, accurate, and very reliable. Here is a review of the XD-S. Good Luck in your search and decision.

Gun Review: Springfield Armory XD-S .45 ACP | The Truth About Guns
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by smitty_bs View Post
Depending on how you define carry gun.....You might want to consider a used 3913 or 3953. They are bigger but they are darn nice guns....these were the compact guns of a few years ago before the more plastic ones took over. Utterly dependable.
Add another vote for the 3913
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:42 PM
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How about a Walther PPS?
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayman9207 View Post
Looks like after the dent to the pocketbook from Xmas has settled a bit we are both going to take a CHL class together. It is only a matter of time before we are lucky enough to find an M&P9 Shield but in the meantime we were hoping for some suggestions for another similar carry gun. I've only looked at a couple smaller guns so far. The only two I have peeked at are the LC9 and the Nano. I like the general size of those. My brother really likes his LCP but I'm not so sure I want a pocket gun. We are leaning towards a thinner gun and would kind of prefer a 9mm but are open. Once again your suggestions and help are greatly appreciated!
I have the LC9 now your talking about a long trigger pull, Keltec makes one similar to the LC9. The Nano no comment. Take a look at a Walther PPS. I have a LCP and I only carry it to business meetings, no power. I have three Shields (2) 9mm and (1) .40 are they great guns. I have the nice collection of Rugers, the SR9C, SR40C, LCP, LC9, SR22 and Glocks 19,26,23,27. I would put the SR9C, SR40C up against a Shield, they about $ 399.00, they are larger and heavier, not really a problem. Now Kahr PM9, I carry that 50% of the time, my Glock 27 Gen 4 25% of the time and switch back a forth between my SRs and PPS the other 25% of the time. All the gun I carry have over 2000 rounds through them, so I trust them. If want top shelf look at a Solo, they are picky about the ammo you use. Well, that's my 2 cents.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:18 PM
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The bp9ccs that I handled were nice. The trigger wasn't light so much as smooth. That'd be my shield alternative.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:43 PM
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Please don't look for a 3913TSW or a 3953TSW. The next one that comes up for sale is MINE!
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:02 PM
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Please don't look for a 3913TSW or a 3953TSW. The next one that comes up for sale is MINE!
A couple of years ago, I came across a 3913TSW that was NIB. I bought it, but decided to sell it because I just didn't like the look of the rail. After I sold it, I found out that S&W would remove the rail....
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:13 PM
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We just sold our 3913 and neither of us kind of liked it. I looked at the PM9 and CW9 today and kind of liked them both. I really liked the size of the PM9 but not so much the price. I liked the weight of the CW9 but would expect that would come with a little extra recoil. They didn't have one to look at but they mentioned a CM9? What is the difference between the CW9 and the CM9? I also looked at the Sig P328 (I think that was the model) which was a little above my budget. Kind of thinking on carrying hip/inside hip/ankle.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:26 PM
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i have the 39 series guns and really like them,but not really in the ballpark. i like the KT Pf9 and carry one most days. mine has been reliable since break in and i really enjoy it.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:49 PM
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Investigate the Caracal model C with quick sights. I have one. There are a number of Youtube reviews.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:23 PM
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Walther PPS. Outstanding gun
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:00 PM
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Investigate the Caracal model C with quick sights. I have one. There are a number of Youtube reviews.
Love this gun, but its not as slim as a shield so not really a substitute. Another popular single stack 9mm is a Sig P938.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:20 PM
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Alternitive to the shield. My pick would be the Bersa bp9cc. But im liking my 9c more and more. And to be honest the 9c isnt that much smaller or lighter. It is a little slimmer but not by much to give up the extra rounds. And you have the changable back straps. And they will accept the full size mags for even greater capacity. Im trying to talk myself into a single stack for warmer weather carry. But ill just use my thunder 380 for that.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:30 PM
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A couple of years ago, I came across a 3913TSW that was NIB. I bought it, but decided to sell it because I just didn't like the look of the rail. After I sold it, I found out that S&W would remove the rail....
I don't want the luggage rack either. I only bid on and buy the rail free models.
Please don't tell me the 3913TSW didn't ever come without a rail. I know the rest of the 3rd gens came without.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:43 AM
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Walther PPS
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:21 AM
gpetrucci85 gpetrucci85 is offline
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my wife has a bersa thunder .380. also comes in 9mm. its a great shooter.
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:04 AM
GRP17 GRP17 is offline
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I would go with the Walther PPS, Im sure like this thread a good sampling will have varying experiences and opinions. For 9mm I like the PPS but not in 40SW. I couldn't get a good feel shooting the Nano. I didnt like the LC9 trigger but there is a good after market trigger. Kahr has a few options, CW this, PM that. I recently read about continuing issues about the PF9 (links below). I havent encountered the Diamondback 9 yet but that could also be something to look at. Best of luck

http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2...il/#more-15260

http://gunnuts.net/2012/12/11/kel-te...er-300-rounds/
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:06 AM
GRP17 GRP17 is offline
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You could also wait on the XD-s 9mm if it does come out next year. The 45 ACP version is very popular among the guys over on the XD forums.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:21 PM
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jayman9207 jayman9207 is offline
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After looking at a few in person yesterday and then looking at all of your suggestions online into the wee hours of the night last night, I think I am kind of leaning towards the PM9. It has the better rifling and it comes with two clips. I really like the size and based on what I have read so far and what a couple of the gun store guys were saying they are very reliable, easy and accurate to shoot. Now comes the even harder decision........deciding which of the PM9 models to actually purchase!
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:36 PM
Vespers Vespers is offline
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I ended up getting a Kahr CM9. Great shooter, very reliable, and conceals very easily!!! I'm happy. Maybe next year if I run into a deal, I may look at a Shield???
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:48 PM
ammodave ammodave is offline
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If you don't like the rail on the 3913, then look at the 908 instead. It's the bargain line 3913; identical in size and function but without the rail and ambi controls.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:03 PM
dlbutler dlbutler is offline
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The difference between the PM9 and the CM9 is mainly the barrel. The PM has the Polygonal and the CM has standard rifleing. Other than that it is most cosmetic stuff. The CM has less machine engraving than the PM and the slide lock is MIM vs machined.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:25 PM
ndoren ndoren is offline
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The PM9 also has a dovetail front sight, as opposed to a pinned one on the CM9. I ordered mine with the factory Meprolight Tru Dot night sights.

I waited endlessly for a Shield, so ended up getting a PM9. Bud's gun shop has the best available prices on all variations, and most are in stock. Most get the CM9 (identical dimensions to PM9) because they're essentially the same gun except for the frills. Identical as far as function and reliability, that is. I really wanted a better front sight so I went with the PM9. Neall
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:50 PM
M29since14 M29since14 is offline
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The Kahrs are good little guns. They make a version of the PM9 with a safety lock, but unfortunately, it operates the wrong way for a frame-mounted safety. You push it up to fire. I have a PM9 without the safety. Very good little gun, for what it is. Some people rave about Kahr triggers. They are generally long and smooth, and not too heavy. I am not too keen on that layout, but it is usable, so that is a fairly minor criticism for me.

A M&P9c would give you a gun with very similar characteristics (compared to the Shield). Might be something to consider.

Naturally, you could not go wrong with a 3913/3914.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:36 PM
rraisley rraisley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M29since14 View Post
Some people rave about Kahr triggers. They are generally long and smooth, and not too heavy. I am not too keen on that layout, but it is usable, so that is a fairly minor criticism for me.
When I was selecting a small carry gun, I loved everything about the Kahr EXCEPT the trigger. It seemed like you had to pull it back INCHES before it went off (just fooling with it in the store). But I liked everything else about it so much, and their reputation is good, I bought it anyhow. Lo and behold, I've now not only gotten used to the trigger, but like it (some how). And I shoot it more accurately than my 9C. But yeah, the triggers are, uh, different. ;-)
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engieman View Post
Walther PPS. Outstanding gun
I would go with the Walter over a Kahr.

I did not have a good experience with my Kahr CM9 and I am not alone if you read posts on the Kahr forum.


Russ
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:43 PM
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Walther PPS.
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:39 PM
tomuchiron tomuchiron is offline
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How did everybody forget the Kel-tec and the SCCY's. You all have them.
I think they serve a definate purpose for their specification's.
And, they always go bang.
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:55 PM
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One of the biggest reasons I like the PM9 and the CM9 are its size. I want to carry inside the pants hip or my ankle as I live in Texas and it is alway hot as frell. I wear a lot of semi-baggy (not falling off my arse) shorts and larger t-shirts much of the time so I was looking for something that would easily holster inside the pants at about 4 o'clock. During our 2-3 weeks of "winter" I typically wear jeans. I doubt I would carry inside of work but I would keep it in my truck (which is parked 10 feet from my office).

Is it worth getting a PM9 with the night sights out of the box? If not then I might consider the CM9 and get the extra magazine and night sights after as there is a big price difference between the two. I know it is only a cosmetic thing buy I also like that you can get the PM9 in all black. Other than the rifling are there any other major construction differences between the PM9 and the CM9?
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:14 PM
highaltitude highaltitude is offline
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I know you mentioned getting a semi-auto for CC.. have you considered a revolver ? My first gun was a Shield 9mm a few months ago. Just last month I picked up a Ruger LCR 357, to shoot 38's out of it (steel instead of aluminum). That LCR 357 is an awesome gun. The trigger is smooth and best in the business. IMO, I think it's one of the best civilian SD firearms around.

Semi's get all the attention and good looks... but sometimes there is beauty in simplicity
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:42 PM
skip4309 skip4309 is offline
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I love the Walther PPS. Have a G26. Bought the 'better half' a Shield 9 after doing some research. Ruger LC9 kinda small and long trigger pull, the Nano doesn't come with a slide lock. I think the Shield 9 is the best of both worlds for size, price and shootability (is that a real word!).
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:23 PM
rraisley rraisley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highaltitude View Post
Just last month I picked up a Ruger LCR 357, to shoot 38's out of it (steel instead of aluminum). That LCR 357 is an awesome gun. The trigger is smooth and best in the business.
I got the LCR in .38 Special, but the fatter barrel doesn't conceal nearly as well as my Kahr PM9 does. Plus, .38 Special rounds are really at the low end of being powerful enough for SD (although obviously .357's are more than enough); I prefer the 9mm. I now keep the LCR in my glove compartment.
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