s&w reliability

[manthony02]

Hi All,

New to the forum but had to join to ask about this. I'm relatively new to handguns and in the past year have purchased an M&P 40 and a Model 22a. I've had reliability issues with both! The takedown button on my 22a wasn't quite machined right. Don't care about this much since that's just my fun gun for the range. I sent this back to s&w and they fixed it, though I haven't had time to test it yet.

More importantly, my M&P40 is a home defense weapon and it constantly jams on me. I've put about 400 rounds through it so I'm beyond the point of believe it's break-in related. The .40 tends to not quite get the first round in the chamber when putting in a new mag. I can't quite figure out if the mag isn't locking all the way in or if the rounds are getting caught on the ramp. Either way, about half of my reloads result in a jam. That's not good enough. I shipped it back today and am anxious to see what they alter to fix the issue.

I appreciate s&w willingness to do these repairs, but I'm disappointed that both my purchases have required repair. Now I'm in the market for a deep conceal weapon. Originally it was going to be between a Bodyguard and a Shield .40, but now I'm considering other options. Do I just have bad luck? I'm not willing to put up with any lack of reliability in a deep concealment weapon.

Any suggestions on a non-s&w deep concealment weapon given I like the feel of my other two s&w guns?

Thanks!

[Hillbilly77]

I've had my M&P9 compact for several months now without a single hiccup or problem.

I would try some different ammo before I condemned the gun. Any semi-auto can be finicky with different types of ammo. Not trying to insult you or question your re-loading abilities, but are you sure that the overall length of your reloads is within spec?


P.S.
Welcome to the Forum.

[manthony02]

No worries, no insult taken. I don't shoot reloads but I did consider that it might be the ammo.

I've been using mostly magtech 180gr fmj, but I've also tried Blazer Brass 165gr fmj that had the same issue.

I should also add that I'm pretty meticulous about cleaning and oiling after every range session so I'd be amazed if it was dirt or grit or anything like that.

It may also lend credence to the "I just have rotten luck" argument to mention that I'm also having issues with a Remington 870 Tactical shotgun I recently purchased. That one certainly can't be s&w's fault :-/

[SteveFi]

is it only on the first round of a magazine? if so, are you pulling the slide back & releasing it or do you hold onto the slide as it goes forward - if so you may be holding it just enough to prevent it from chambering

[Hillbilly77]

Originally Posted by manthony02

I don't shoot reloads but I did consider that it might be the ammo.

^^^^^^^^
Oh, I see.

Originally Posted by manthony02

Either way, about half of my reloads result in a jam.

^^^^^^^^
The source of my confusion.

[S&WProtected]

I have a M&P Shield 9 and a FS M&P 45 and between the 2 I have about 2500 rds down range w/o a problem. I will say the few FTF issues I had with the 45 were my reloads using LSWC but once I set the dies correctly the problem went away. The M&P line of pistols overall are very reliable, that's what I like most about them.

[trashy]

I have a SD40VE, M&P 40 FS, M&P 22 & a Shield 40. I have not had any issues with any except the SD not loading the first round all the way on a couple occasions and the 22 with a couple issues which were ammo related. I lightly polished the feed ramp on the SD and since have not had any problems what so ever. I have had zero problems with the FS 40 or the Shield.

Good luck and its my firm belief that even though S&W makes a fine product, a bad one can escape now and then.

[Rpg]

I don't own each of these guns but have shot most of them. Your experience of unreliabity is common and should not be.

It's easy blame reloads or suggest you aren't slamming the magazine home sharply enough or aren't lamminig the gun unto battery with sufficentforce to excuse the gun, incorrectly I believe.

From reading this forum and shooting these guns, I have concluded that there are serious relibilility issues present. some may be design issues, some manufacturing quality problems.

By comparison, I have never experienced anything approaching the S&W issues in a Colt 1911. Of course Colt has been building their pistol for over 100 years so they've worked out the bugs and have figured out how to build them.

This is annoying in plinker. It is frightening in a gun used for self defence.

The only Smith I would freely choose to protect myself is an older revolver (one with no more than two digets in the model number - a number that does not begin with a 6),

No offence meant here. Just my opinion.

[DigiRebel]

Originally Posted by Rpg

No offence meant here. Just my opinion.

Bah, people need to chill. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion.

Of course, I've had the exact opposite experience. I hear, occasionally, of performance issues, but not nearly enough that I would rate the M&Ps as anything less than a trusty and safe SD gun.

Of course if you want something that's 100% reliable that's one of the main reasons people go to Revolvers, even when they have problems, it doesn't effect their function really.

Still, I have no problems wholeheartedly recommending (and relying on) my M&P9.

I'll be curious to see what S&W has to say about yours. Most of these issues are easily fixed.

[jdw174]

Just a thought here, but are you loading your magazines to full capacity? Some pistols will experience a problem trying to strip off the first round from magazines that are stuffed full. Before you give up, try leaving the magazine one round shy and see if that doesn't help.

[Arik]

Originally Posted by Rpg

I don't own each of these guns but have shot most of them. Your experience of unreliabity is common and should not be.

It's easy blame reloads or suggest you aren't slamming the magazine home sharply enough or aren't lamminig the gun unto battery with sufficentforce to excuse the gun, incorrectly I believe.

From reading this forum and shooting these guns, I have concluded that there are serious relibilility issues present. some may be design issues, some manufacturing quality problems.

By comparison, I have never experienced anything approaching the S&W issues in a Colt 1911. Of course Colt has been building their pistol for over 100 years so they've worked out the bugs and have figured out how to build them.

This is annoying in plinker. It is frightening in a gun used for self defence.

The only Smith I would freely choose to protect myself is an older revolver (one with no more than two digets in the model number - a number that does not begin with a 6),

No offence meant here. Just my opinion.

And if you went on the 1911 or the Colt forum you might hear a lot more issues. People tend to complain to the home base because thats where the problem will most likely be resolved by others who have/had similar issues. Just saying.

My experience with M&Ps has been 2/3 positive. The 9fs was good, i just didnt care for it. The 357sig fs had ejection issues. Constantly left the casing in the chamber. 45fs is my current and only modern 45acp. Excellent gun! Never any issues

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[Nakanokalronin]

I've owned or still own 2 FS 9mm M&Ps, 1 M&P 9c, 1 SD9VE, 1 9mm Shield and one BG380 with zero problems off the bat and since with any factory ammo.

I always load up all mags prior to the first range outing. It lets the mags take a set and since I've done it with every semi-auto mag since I first stared shooting, it must be okay.

I never have and will never own a .40 in any make or model so I'm not sure if it's related. Poly guns need a minimal break-in period if any. They're not steel/aluminum frame tight so the "break-in" phase is long gone.

Sometimes not pulling the slide completely back and letting go and/or riding the slide forward can result in a jam when loading the top round. Just some thoughts without actually seeing what's going on.

[flat_topp]

Originally Posted by Nakanokalronin

Sometimes ... riding the slide forward can result in a jam when loading the top round.

I have about 500 rounds through my M&P40 FS, with only one jam, and that was my own fault for "riding the slide forward" as mentioned by Nakanokalronin.

[konertjm]

+1 on the loading first round from mag.

The method that seems to work best for everyone, as mentioned above, is to "slingshot" the slide.
1. Insert new mag.
2. Pull back the slide all the way and release.

i.e. do not use the open slide lock.
do not hold onto the slide as the slide moves forward to chamber a round.

P.S. I have 2 M&P's and have never had a problem with either that wasn't caused by me.

[lhump1961]

Providing a good backstop solves most feeding issues. i.e. a good firm grip.

I watch hickok45 and noticed he has a very firm stance and grip and have maybe once seen him suffer a malfunction with all the different guns he reviews. He was competition shooter and will tell you that most malfunctions are shooter or ammo related. I said "most"...not "all".

My 40c was not 100% until I got behind it and firmed up my stance...no more problems. Now, before you say, "I don't limp wrist my guns!" at least address it to eliminate it as a possibility. My 9's and 45's are more forgiving but my .380's and .40's required a bit of an adjustment from me in my shooting technique. JMHO

[VMaxSplat]

Barring outright manufacturing defects, any firearm is a sum of its tolerances. I've had a few lemons in my lifetime of shooting. I've also seen guns that were perfectly functional under competition shooting stress that had issues when certain shooters got hold of them.

OP, I'd suggest you let someone else try the M&P 40 and see if they have problems. If so, send the gun to S&W and let them sort it out. Your M&P 40 should run like a Swiss watch. Mine does, and so do the other 99% of the M&P pistols S&W produces.

[Dean1818]

That gun needs to go back to S&W

Even the best companies products have a lemon

I will say

Both of my M&Ps have been amazingly reliable


Look thru other gun boards and you see constant problems with manufacturers like Taurus......

But I almost NEVER see someone bring up an M&P problem

There was an issue at release on the Shield 40 with mag drop,
But thats been corrected

M&Ps are great pistols...... As reliable as the best in the industry....

Or put another way...... You arent going to find a more reliable manufacturer

[manthony02]

Thanks for all the info everyone! When I get the gun back from S&W hopefully my issues will be resolved. I'll also try a few of the tricks mentioned in all these posts.

THANKS!

[snakeye]

Let us know what you found out was wrong with it.

[Smithsrevenge]

my M&P40c will eat ALMOST anything. I only say almost because that dang rubber plunger on the Horniday critical defense hangs up on my ramp. But i believe that stuff to be junk anyway so :-p

[shawn mccarver]

I pretty much lost interest when I saw the word "reload." The M&P line is so reliable it gets monotonous.

[3hounds]

Originally Posted by shawn mccarver

I pretty much lost interest when I saw the word "reload." The M&P line is so reliable it gets monotonous.

I'm not sure if he shoots reloads or not.

First post he said he did then later in another he said he didn't.

3

[Bkreutz]

Originally Posted by 3hounds

I'm not sure if he shoots reloads or not.

First post he said he did then later in another he said he didn't.

3

In the first post he was talking about having problems during reloads (as in putting a new magazine in), not that he was using reloads. He stated that again in the later post. But I have to agree with Shawn about reliability, I shoot 1000 to 1500 rounds a week and the only jam I had was the one time I loaded a round into a mag backwards (it is possible when using an uplula). I found that out in the middle of a match. I was embarrassed to say the least. I blame senility.

[Smithsrevenge]

Originally Posted by Bkreutz

In the first post he was talking about having problems during reloads (as in putting a new magazine in), not that he was using reloads. He stated that again in the later post. But I have to agree with Shawn about reliability, I shoot 1000 to 1500 rounds a week and the only jam I had was the one time I loaded a round into a mag backwards (it is possible when using an uplula). I found that out in the middle of a match. I was embarrassed to say the least. I blame senility.

Only issue I've ever had with my 40c is when my ex was loading my mags for me and threw a 9mm into a .40 mag.

Fired.

Fired.

then saw a full 9mm round slide out of the barrel and land about a foot away from me lmao

[Justin69]

Reliability???
I have a f/s 9mm with over 3k rd.s thru it & a 9c with around 600 rd.s thru it. NEVER had ANY problems with either gun. The op needs to check his ammo & hit his gun with Frog Lube. That will smoooooothe everything out

[3hounds]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly77

^^^^^^^^
Oh, I see.




^^^^^^^^
The source of my confusion.

Ya this got me to.

3

[manthony02]

Hi All,

Sorry it's been a while but I wanted to get back on here and update everyone on what's happened. I shipped the M&P40 back to S&W. They sent it back with a very cryptic description of what they did and then stated the gun was within spec.

I took it back out to the range, and on my 4th mag had the same problem.

To make matters worse, I brought my Model 22a along with me that day as well. This has also been back to S&W after 1 range session due to a faulty takedown button. So on my second range session with this gun, the plastic butt plate of one of my mags breaks and I have to ask the range master to shut down the range so I can walk out and retrieve the mag spring that had fallen out.

After a quick internet search to confirm that I'm not the only one having issues with these butt plates, I contacted S&W about their poor quality and got a response that they source them from a 3rd party and they don't have any remedy to the issue. They offered to send me a free replacement. I replied with my address and haven't heard anything from them in over a month.

I'm pretty much done with S&W. I don't mean to offend any tried and true S&W fans, but based on my experience they have poor quality products and even worse customer service.

While all of this is going on I picked up a Sig P238. Not a single issue with it. None. Why would I ever buy S&W again?

Like I told S&W, unprecedented demand is not a valid excuse to produce bad products and back them up with bad service.

[Jmoorewar]

That blows.sounds like a lemon(or two) or you just have bad luck with guns.im new to the m&p world and I love mine.traded glock for an m&p 9fs and I've had 0 issues.ill get another glock eventualy just to say I have one again but the m&p has a MUCH better feel in my hand and that leads to me shooting better with it.sucks for your luck.get a glock.no one can break those lol

[Arik]

It's a toss up. I've had problems with their 357sig model but no problems with the 45acp. Sometimes you get a lemon, 2 in your case

I gotta say that the best customer service I've had was with Glock.

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[Rastoff]

I'm sorry to hear of your trouble. I agree that this is a failure rate far too high for me as well. If I had two new guns fail in succession like that, I'd probably be looking toward another brand as well.

However, the phrase "never say never" applies. I'm uncertain if the "jam" (really a malfunction) you're experiencing is shooter induced or an actual defect in the gun. The issue with the .22 mag could just be a random thing.

I've had the opposite experience with my M&P guns. They have both been quite reliable.