Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Semi-Automatic Pistols > Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols
Forum Register Expert Commentary Members List


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-12-2013, 10:35 PM
dullh's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Western NC
Posts: 518
Likes: 11
Liked 249 Times in 126 Posts
Default Shield 9 vs. Kahr CW9

I've had my Kahr CW9 for a long while now. I gave into the pop-gun-culture trend and bought a Shield in 9mm...I've had it about 6 days. A few observations for those who are interested:

1) The Shield (with the 7rd flush-fit magazine) and the CW9 are practically identical in size - length, width and height. Not enough difference to mention. The only noticeable difference (outside the fact that the 8rd magazine makes the Shield taller) is the Shield has a larger trigger guard.

2) The Shield (with the 7rd flush-fit magazine) and the CW9 are almost identical in weight (if you didn't know, the CW9 magazine holds 7 rounds too)..

3) The Kahr fits better in my hand.

4) The Kahr doesn't need $92 worth of aftermarket parts to get a decent trigger.

5) Because the Kahr has a superior trigger (out of the box) I hit better with it. We'll see how the Shield feels when those $92 worth of aftermarket trigger parts arrive and are installed.

6) the Kahr was about $200 cheaper.

With all the talk of how great the Shield is, and my experience with my full-size M&P's (9mm and .45 and LOVE them), I thought the Shield would be just as good as its big brothers, only smaller. Well, it is smaller...

Last edited by dullh; 04-12-2013 at 10:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-12-2013, 11:03 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 85
Likes: 36
Liked 22 Times in 13 Posts
Default

Glad you like the Kahr. My son had one before he sold it a while back. IMHO you don't need $92 of parts for the Shield trigger. I can't understand why anyone wants to spend money on a trigger kit before even shooting 200+ rounds down range. Then if you still don't like it, knock yourself out tuning it up. My recently purchased Shield has a much improved trigger versus my older 9c, so much so that I don't plan to do anything to it. As for the "fit in the hand" that is subjective. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I much prefer the Shield, not even close. It just points naturally for me. As for accuracy, at least with me shooting, the Shield wins. I'm sure you can easily recoup your money on the Shield, maybe even make a profit. Better hurry though, before the " pop-gun-culture" fades!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-13-2013, 07:52 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Default

I got my shield for $450 recently. How do you figure the kahr is $200 cheaper??? They are about the same price give or take. Kinda hard to take you serious after reading that...

Last edited by RacerScott; 04-13-2013 at 07:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #4  
Old 04-13-2013, 08:55 AM
3482jl's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 46
Liked 107 Times in 83 Posts
Default Kahr vs Shield

Both great guns. I happen to like Kahrs ( P380 and CW9). My son and his wife have 2 Shields. IMHO though, the Kahr has the best DAO trigger in the industry ( as reported by the likes of Massad Ayoob, Hickock 45, Gunblast, etc.). I'd feel very well protected with either.
__________________
Too old to own an ugly gun!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-13-2013, 09:19 AM
dullh's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Western NC
Posts: 518
Likes: 11
Liked 249 Times in 126 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerScott View Post
I got my shield for $450 recently. How do you figure the kahr is $200 cheaper??? They are about the same price give or take. Kinda hard to take you serious after reading that...
My Kahr was $300 even (NIB from Woodbury Outfitters), free shipping, $10 transfer fee upon arrival from an online auction. If you didn't know, the CW9 is the economy model Kahr.

The Shield was $519 + tax at a local gun shop.

That's how I figure the Kahr was $200 cheaper.

And, yes, considering what the Shields are going for nowadays (I've seen online auctions asking as much as $700 for them - no way I would pay that), I could sell it and make a profit...but I follow advice from Jeff Cooper I read a long time ago...I don't sell guns, because when you do the gun is gone and sooner than later so is the money you got for it.

Last edited by dullh; 04-13-2013 at 09:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-13-2013, 09:30 AM
dullh's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Western NC
Posts: 518
Likes: 11
Liked 249 Times in 126 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3482jl View Post
IMHO though, the Kahr has the best DAO trigger in the industry...
I agree with you 100%
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 04-13-2013, 10:01 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Outside Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 5,452
Likes: 975
Liked 2,514 Times in 1,434 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerScott View Post
I got my shield for $450 recently. How do you figure the kahr is $200 cheaper??? They are about the same price give or take. Kinda hard to take you serious after reading that...
CW9 in my area are $350-$375 new. Not arguing ....just saying ......different areas have different prices

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-13-2013, 10:03 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North GA
Posts: 785
Likes: 58
Liked 309 Times in 172 Posts
Default

My kahr CW9 has been with me for a lot of years, 0 problems. I see no reason to change anything. Not knocking the shield, I've never handled one.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-13-2013, 10:09 AM
RussC's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Utah
Posts: 886
Likes: 29
Liked 346 Times in 183 Posts
Default

Can't speak on the Kahr CW9. I owned the smaller Kahr CM9 before I returned to Kahr for a full refund due to the front factory installed night sight breaking off twice.

I now own a Shield and from my experience Kahr has one thing on my Shield-the trigger but not enough to make up for the inferior magazine.

It is beyond me why Kahr would build a decent weapon and finish it off with an awful magazine that requires the owner to constantly tinker with it to ensure the rounds properly feed.

No joke if you search the official Kahr gun forum there are posts of owners sanding/grinding the magazine and/or polymer to ensure proper fit or squeezing the magazine sides in a vise.

I will admit I did all of the above except sand the polymer.

Personally, I don't think it speaks well of the Kahr's workmanship if sanding and squeezing is required for the magazine to drop from the well.

Russ
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-13-2013, 10:48 AM
agksimon's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 544
Likes: 67
Liked 94 Times in 69 Posts
Default

I had a PM9 that I had to do a lot of chamber/ramp polishing and magazine work, to get it to finally run right. The Shield 9 has been 100% right out of the box and the trigger is a nice one too.
__________________
NRA R.S.O. & Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-13-2013, 11:31 AM
dullh's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Western NC
Posts: 518
Likes: 11
Liked 249 Times in 126 Posts
Default

Opinions and mileage can and do vary, and that's cool. My experience with the Kahr is limited to the CW9. I passed on a CM9 due to lack of pinky placement. Funny though...the lack of full grip thing that irked me about my old G26 and made me pass on the CM9, I don't mind at all with the Shield and the 7rd magazine. In fact, I prefer the 7rd mag for better concealibility. As far as the Kahr sights, well, they are cheap (remember economy model)...if the front sight in my CW9 ever does make an unscheduled departure I'll put an XS big dot on it and roll on...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-13-2013, 01:14 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dullh View Post
My Kahr was $300 even (NIB from Woodbury Outfitters), free shipping, $10 transfer fee upon arrival from an online auction. If you didn't know, the CW9 is the economy model Kahr.

The Shield was $519 + tax at a local gun shop.

That's how I figure the Kahr was $200 cheaper.

And, yes, considering what the Shields are going for nowadays (I've seen online auctions asking as much as $700 for them - no way I would pay that), I could sell it and make a profit...but I follow advice from Jeff Cooper I read a long time ago...I don't sell guns, because when you do the gun is gone and sooner than later so is the money you got for it.
My bad, I forgot about the economy model.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-13-2013, 01:46 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 237
Likes: 9
Liked 28 Times in 18 Posts
Default

I had a CM9

I liked the CM9
I love my Shield 40

My Shield hasn't bobbled a single round from shot 1

My CM9 went back to the factory with an issue, and jammed a few times in breakin

I don't like the exposed slides top spring which can be easily damaged when reassembling the weapon

I also didn't like the mags either

I shoot MUCH better with the shield

I didn't like the long trigger pull of the Kahr nor did I like the long reset.

(Try a true double tap on the Kahr.......... It's not pretty, it will probably go 6 inches low )
__________________
Imperfect Servant of Christ

Last edited by Dean1818; 04-13-2013 at 01:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-13-2013, 02:26 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,141
Likes: 28
Liked 664 Times in 274 Posts
Default

Kahr's do have nice triggers, but the economy CW9 only comes with one mag, while the Shield comes with 2. The Shield has a thumb safety (which I prfer). S&W has much better service than Kahr does, and the "200 round break in" policy of Kahr's always annoyed me. The gun should be reliable right from the box, not after spending $60 in practice ammo.

And I don't get the "Sheild trigger needs $92 in parts to make a great trigger" thing. First of all, the Shield is a personal protection piece, not a target gun. You think you're gonna notice any difference if you ever have to use the gun? I think the Shield has a sweet trigger. at 15 yards, I put all the rounds into a group the size of my palm.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-13-2013, 02:43 PM
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Charles Town, WV
Posts: 3,476
Likes: 698
Liked 1,362 Times in 851 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by agksimon View Post
I had a PM9 that I had to do a lot of chamber/ramp polishing and magazine work, to get it to finally run right. The Shield 9 has been 100% right out of the box and the trigger is a nice one too.
Their CW models were made for carry not for show so they are not finely finished, conventional rifling instead of polygonal rifling, internal my CW45 has a polished feed ramp from the factory, I don't own any of the higher priced units so can't compare. I've never had a problem with mine put hundreds of rounds down range with it even my wife, son and his wife shot it with not problems. Never had a mag problem. There is a 200 round break in period which mine did not experience any failures during. Front site is still solid even with heavy recoil of .45acp,, they are plastic and held in only by looks to be melting over the tab. Replacement sites come with a screw to hold them on Trijicon is the way to go tho. With all the excellent reviews I’ve read about them with some negative one’s is the reason I picked it for CCW small, compact, doesn’t print IWB or OWB much and has been very reliable for me as I stated. Try to shoot them both some ranges will rent them, and see which one is right for you remember you are the one who needs to be satisfied.
And yes I own more S&W's then Kahr's

Last edited by gdnagle; 04-13-2013 at 02:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-13-2013, 02:57 PM
GKC GKC is offline
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,833
Likes: 1,197
Liked 2,239 Times in 992 Posts
Default

I read a lot of complaints about the M&P triggers...I guess I'm just "trigger challenged" or something, because I don't mind them at all. Heck, I don't even mind the trigger on my SD9VE! Most if not all the revolvers I have ever shot in DA (except the Ruger LCR) had a heavier trigger pull. No, they aren't 1911 smooth and light...but they aren't 1911s.

I've owned three Kahrs (two CW9s and one CW45) and while I do agree the triggers are good, I do not see Kahr in general as in the same league as S&W. First and foremost, at one time Kahr had a lifetime warranty...now, it is 5 years. If Kahr doesn't think enough of its own products to warrant them for life, as does S&W, then I don't either. Second, I do not like the "fluff and buff" (Kahr forum term) that you have to do to most Kahr pistols and magazines to make them perform reliably. Last but not least, a pistol (IMO) should work reliably 100% of the time right out of the box...how many of you would buy a car and put up with it not starting, stalling, or dying while you are driving it for the first few hundred miles? Not me! It would be going back to the dealership...and a car is a lot more mechanically complex than a handgun.

I know any gun can have a few break-in issues, but this "shoot X number of rounds and then call me" that you get from Kahr and Kimber is the main reason I don't own their products any more. S&W also pays shipping both ways if you do need service, which I don't think Kahr does.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-13-2013, 03:27 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 131
Likes: 8
Liked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Default

I have both the 9mm Shield and CW9, and the Shield out does the Kahr in almost all aspects. The trigger on the Kahr is weird, you never know when its going to break when shooting it. The Shield just feels better in my hand. The Kahr has been in my nightstand since I got the Shield and the only time its been taken out was when I went to the range a couple weeks ago to try out the S&W.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-13-2013, 03:41 PM
dullh's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Western NC
Posts: 518
Likes: 11
Liked 249 Times in 126 Posts
Default

The longer this thread goes, the more I think I made a GOOD decision buying the Shield. All things considered, I do think the Kahr is in the same "league" with the Shield, but at the same time the Shield does have a few things going for it.

The Shield does not compare to the Kahr in terms of trigger pull, but even I have been the "victim" of the long reset on the Kahr. Also, while the Shield does have a perfectly servicable trigger out of the box, I don't like the grit on take up. I don't care about light, I care about smooth. After having S&W models:

10, 13, 19, 28, 29, 34, 629, 631, 642, 310, 5906, 910...and a couple more I can't remember...

I would expect something better triggerwise from a pistol from a stalwart like S&W.

I do like the Shield. I may be getting a little too critical.

As far as the thumb safety is concerned, I could never really see the point on a striker-fired pistol.

I'm gonna give it a few more months and shots...I guess my biggest problem is I didn't warm up to it straight away like I did my full-size M&P's...
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-13-2013, 05:55 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 428
Likes: 1,009
Liked 142 Times in 92 Posts
Default

My friend got a Shield 9 a few weeks ago. It was his first gun purchase. He handled everything, and with Shields non-existent at stores, the Kahrs were leading the pack. We finally got our hands on a Shield that was on hold waiting to be picked up by the guy that had ordered it. Two days later he went back and placed his order for one. He is very pleased with it and is confident he made the right choice.

The only issue I have with the triggers is the fact they aren't always consistent from one pistol to the next. The one we got to handle in the store felt horrible compared to some M&P compacts we handled. Then his pistol arrived, and it was as good as the compact or better.

Aside from that, I agree with KBM's comments about the trigger not being a big deal unless you are competition shooting.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-24-2014, 08:42 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: cape cod
Posts: 261
Likes: 324
Liked 105 Times in 59 Posts
Default

My shooting buddy has the Kahr pm9 and I have the shield 40 and since Im in Ma. I had to get the $92 trigger but it was worth it.His pm 9 is a very well made firearm and It has about 500 rds though it with only 3 miss feeds as far as my shield 500rds no miss feeds at all.The shield is more comfortable and a lot more accurate. So since i reload i wanted to pick up a small 9mm for cheaper expense shooting I debated getting a kahr but have decided on another shield.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #21  
Old 03-24-2014, 04:33 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 24
Likes: 1
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Agreed the trigger is awful... at this point i'm actually debating on whether to do apex or just go back to the glock 27 as my carry.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-25-2014, 10:26 PM
2tango2's Avatar
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 690
Likes: 62
Liked 117 Times in 80 Posts
Default

Even though this thread is almost a year old I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I own a Shield, Compact and FS all in 9. I like them, I like them a LOT.

However lately when I reach into the safe for my EDC of the day it is more than likely going to be my Kahr CW9 or CW380. I always poo-poohed Kahrs until I actually handled a few. Once you get used to the long butter smooth trigger you get hooked.

In fact I'm looking to add a CW45 soon. My hope is to find a used one as a lot of folks will buy a Kahr and never quite like the trigger and trade it in. That's how I got my CW9 for less $$.

Thumbs up for Kahrs in my book
__________________
M&P 9mm VTAC-9c-Shield 9
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-25-2014, 10:39 PM
CatSnipah's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Mt Pleasant, SC
Posts: 714
Likes: 1,032
Liked 462 Times in 232 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbleypeg1 View Post
Glad you like the Kahr. My son had one before he sold it a while back. IMHO you don't need $92 of parts for the Shield trigger. I can't understand why anyone wants to spend money on a trigger kit before even shooting 200+ rounds down range. Then if you still don't like it, knock yourself out tuning it up. My recently purchased Shield has a much improved trigger versus my older 9c, so much so that I don't plan to do anything to it. As for the "fit in the hand" that is subjective. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I much prefer the Shield, not even close. It just points naturally for me. As for accuracy, at least with me shooting, the Shield wins. I'm sure you can easily recoup your money on the Shield, maybe even make a profit. Better hurry though, before the " pop-gun-culture" fades!
You also run the risk of getting picked apart by a legal defense attorney regarding your "intent" to shoot someone if you upgrade your trigger, add a crimson trace laser, etc. Not saying it sticks, but more and more, I read or hear anecdotes regarding this topic.

I'm stock, other than changing out the sights for TruGlos.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-26-2014, 10:34 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 52
Likes: 1
Liked 13 Times in 10 Posts
Default

I have both and both are great firearms. Can't complain about the kahr or shield. The kahr with the flush mag is a little longer in the grip thou. They hang out about 1/8" where the shield is flush. Easier to conceal my shield.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-26-2014, 11:04 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Alliance Ohio
Posts: 80
Likes: 22
Liked 29 Times in 13 Posts
Default

I have both just shot them yesterday I bought the Shield because I love the trigger on my M&Pc9 and was hoping the shield trigger would be as good and it is.The CW9 & CM9 (have both) are great but I can't get use to the lone trigger pull or reset so I'll most likely carry the Shield. Everyone has different, say what feels good to them EDC what you shoot and handle best.
SHOOT STRAIGHT BE SAFE
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols Thread, Shield 9 vs. Kahr CW9 in Smith & Wesson Semi-Automatic Pistols; I've had my Kahr CW9 for a long while now. I gave into the pop-gun-culture trend and bought a Shield ...
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anyone else notice the irritation from Kahr owners about the shield shipwreck Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 124 03-12-2013 08:57 PM
My M&P Shield pics, internals, compare to Kahr CM9, M&P9c, Aprex sear, safety info evnash Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 82 06-22-2012 07:17 PM
WTB Kahr CM9 GunAttic WANTED to Buy 0 01-19-2012 09:17 AM
WTT Kahr PM9 7rd mag for 6rd mag airbus300 Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 0 05-12-2010 10:44 PM
WTT Like new S&W 642 for Kahr PM9 Tact GUNS - For Sale or Trade 3 10-17-2009 09:47 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:44 AM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)