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Old 05-10-2014, 08:27 PM
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I'm new to the forum and have done some searches on the topic and found some useful information... but not enough to make a final decision. I'm still searching and can't make up my mind after several months, so I thought I would create a post and ask the members since most of you have much more S&W experience than I do and probably already own some of these guns.

I'm looking for a dedicated bedside/nightstand/"go to" gun. I already own a M&P FS 9mm and a M&P Shield 9mm and I love them both! Over 1,200 rounds combined through them w/ no issues. That being said, I would prefer something with a bit more power if it is going to be my "bump in the night" gun. My wife owns a S&W 642 and she's fine with it as her bedside gun. I've considered getting a 642 also and as I see it, one of the major upsides of a revolver is the ability to leave it loaded for a long time without worrying about the mag springs losing tension. (I have spoken to several S&W reps about mag springs and was assured that the springs will last anywhere from 1-3 years (depending on which rep I spoke to) if left fully loaded before needing to be changed... but a revolver could probably sit loaded for 20 years, assuming no humidity or other factors, and be ready to go!) I still feel like a .38 with 5 or 6 rounds is a little less power than you'd need for your main home defense gun.

I'm considering either a M&P 40c, a Shield 40 or a SD40VE. I should mention that I live in a state with a 10 round mag limit, so that partly plays into my decision. If I could legally own a 17 round mag for my M&P FS 9mm, that would solve my problem. But since I'm limited to 10, I would like to have 10 rounds of either .40 or .45. I have already shot the Shield .40 and the M&P 40c and I liked them both. I found the 40c a little more controllable, slightly more accurate and a little more comfortable. However, it also costs $75-$100 more. But, the 40c also holds 3 more rounds than the largest capacity Shield .40 mag. Accuracy over distance is not a huge concern for me since most defensive scenarios in a home take place within 10 yards... so the extra inch of the SD40VE's barrel is not a major factor for me.

From my research it seems like the SD40VE is an EXCELLENT value as it can be had for about $300 new online. I have heard that there are some issues with the mags rattling when they are fully loaded... but that if you "down load" them by a round or two, the problem is solved. Does anyone know if this is an issue with the 10 round SDVE/Sigma mags?

So, any thoughts that you folks have would be much appreciated! Please do not mention a 12 gauge as I have already considered that and I feel like I would be more comfortable with a handgun as my main "go to." I have many reasons why I prefer a handgun, but I won't waste time with that here. I am aware that a 12 gauge with 00 buck is arguably the most devastating home defense weapon there is, but I have already decided not to use any of my 12 gauges in this role.

I am hoping to put an end to my M&P 40c/Shield .40/SD40VE debate and decide once and for all which one would serve the role of "go to" gun the best. I'm still open to the idea of a 642 as my "bedside", I'm just not sure it's the best choice. (Just saw the 642 pro series for the first time and the idea of moon clips seems interesting!)

Thanks in advance for all thoughts, feedback and suggestions folks! Your expertise is much appreciated!!
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:02 PM
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Cycling magazine springs (loading and unloading) is harder on them than leaving them compressed (loaded) for extended periods. Good quality springs such as those used in the M&P magazines will withstand thousands of cycles before they loose so much memory that they would start to give you trouble so you have little to worry about there.

Either of your existing pistols would serve your purpose however here is some food for thought. Most experts agree that one of the best home defense guns you could have is a short (18-1/2") barreled 12 gauge shotgun loaded with bird shot or one of the specific home defense rounds. Your aim need not be precise since you throwing a spread of many projectiles instead of just one. At across the room distance a solid hit with bird shot will incapacitate the toughest thug yet it's less likely to penetrate interior or exterior walls and possibly hurt innocents on the other side. Just the distinctive sound of a 12 gauge pump being shucked will send most BGs to flight. So I wouldn't be too quick to rule it out.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:03 PM
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Using modern defensive ammunition, their really isn't any difference of note between the 9mm vs. the 40 s&w. To help put it into perspective, 40 cal translated into the metric system is 10mm. Human tissue is elastic. That extra 1mm isn't going to make any real difference.

You already have two 9mm handguns. I would stay with the 9mm. You are familiar with them.

If you want to get a dedicated "night stand gun", buy another M&P9. Put a light on the gun and you're set.

Practice and train with what you have. Good shot placement and the timely use of appropriate tactics greatly outweighs any perceived advantage by going with a different pistol caliber.

If you really feel the need to get a bit more "power", go with an AR or a shotgun.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:08 PM
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I like a .357 revolver beside the bed. Simple to use in the middle of the night with no "is the safety on or off" questions. 6 rounds should be enough.

I also think the .357 is a better round than the 40; had a local cop tell me that he traded off his 40 because "The guy I shot with it didn't die.".
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:22 PM
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I use a 638 with a CT laser and a sig P6 with night sights as a back up.
My wife uses her M&P shield with night sights.
I also have a shotgun loaded in a closet. But my go to is the 638 with +P and the CT. I feel the CT will make the intruder think about wether he should stick around..(he has no idea what's on the other end of the laser.) But for offense I am well armed with 5 rounds of 38+P and can hit where my laser points even if I am knocked down or around a corner.
Basically in a night stand situation use what you are comfortable with and have practiced extensively with.

Edit: We have grown children who bring their little ones around alot. So we are careful to lock all "nightstand guns" in the safe when they come over. The only issue with it is remembering to re-arm the nightstand..many times I forget. But the children are our prime responsibility..I apologize for a little thread highjacking... but does anyone have a solution to that as well? besides just remembering
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:24 PM
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I use my full-size M&P9 in this role...it has a CT Lightguard flashlight on it...if I'm roused in the middle of the night I don't want a small handle to fumble with. The full size grip, flashlight and 17+1 capacity takes care of any conceivable situation I can come up with.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:30 PM
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My nightstand gun is a M&P FS 9mm with CT laser.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:41 PM
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I one way or another I'm going to repeat what others have said. The officers in the conceal carry class I attended cited the 15% hit rate I've seen before regarding shooting in a stressful situation. This statistic would seem to give a shotgun better odds of a hit. I would venture a guess that a pump shotgun is the best combination of reliability and best chance of a hit compared to a semi-auto shotgun or the double barrel shotgun recommended by Joe Biden. Because of the 15% hit rate, if you use a semi-auto pistol or revolver, consider either an extra magazine or speed loaders or two revolvers ("New York" reloads).
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:51 PM
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My TRR8 gives me revolver dependability, 8 shot capacity, .357 or .38+P fire power and a rail to mount a light and or laser. I think it's the best nightstand gun available. It is also backed up by a 20" Ithaca with 8 rounds of 00 Buck. No little ones in the house.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mbliss57 View Post
The only issue with it is remembering to re-arm the nightstand..many times I forget. But the children are our prime responsibility..I apologize for a little thread highjacking... but does anyone have a solution to that as well? besides just remembering
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Old 05-10-2014, 10:08 PM
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Leaving mags loaded will not harm them, the discussion should end there. Keep your mags loaded with confidence.
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Old 05-10-2014, 10:57 PM
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Put night sights and a light on the 9FS and load it with a good 124gr. JHP and be done with it. That's exactly what's in my bedside drawer.

A 649 would be a step backward as far as a nightstand gun is concerned, and I carry one daily as my self defense pistol.
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Old 05-11-2014, 12:43 AM
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The "A" answer: Wear one pistol when the little ones are or might be there, lock up the others.

The mag issue is as stated - I doubt leaving mags loaded is a problem, although I had some issues with my old USP.

My "go to" HD firearm is an AR with Aimpoint H1 and a Surefire Fury light. Superior ergonomics and ballistics for home defense, although I always have at least one handgun loaded and near (because they are more convenient). My Mossberg 590 has not yet been tested, but is set up pretty much the same except I could not get a flashlight for it yet. I plan to go with the new Surefire 600 lumen forend when I can. It will be loaded with 000 most likely, as the distance across any shot to be fired in the house is no more than 15 yards. It's actually a poor choice now due to the nature of one of our dogs, whose inherent response to a stranger would be a leap into the line of fire, which would suck.

Pistol: given the realities of NY politics, mag capacity laws and your existing familiarity with the 9mm variants of your pistols, I would stick with the proven platform. With good ammo, there is no real difference in performance between the common service autopistol calibers, so investing in another pistol and caliber is not a good use of your money. Spend the same money on ammo and training.

If you really want a dedicated pistol for that role, I would consider a second Shield 9mm, with a RDS milled into the slide (contact Mark Housel at "www.landmprecisiongunworks.com") and a Surefire X300U mounted (assuming the pistol and light are compatible, which I have not considered). I assume you already have a good flashlight or twelve.

Layers of defense that discourage visitors and intruders are a good first step. Fencing lighting; large loud alert dogs (most dogs are a zillion or two times as aware as we are, and a good deep bark of a large dog is attention getting, even if he is a face licking goofball - you have not been awakened until the bed is shaking from the vibrations of the growls of an alerted dog); good locks on the doors and windows.
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Old 05-11-2014, 03:56 AM
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Thanks for all of the thoughts and suggestions!! I have learned a lot from what everyone has shared thus far. I half expected to be reprimanded for not looking elsewhere on the forum because "this has been asked 1,000 times!" I see that occurring quite a bit on some other forums so I was a little hesitant to post my question. I appreciate everyone's pleasant, detailed responses so far.

The main reason I'm hesitant to use a 12 gauge (I own a couple) as my main "go to" "bump in the night" gun is because they are so LOUD! I know most folks agree that you can't beat the racking sound as the universal "Get out!" signal and their power is unrivaled in close quarters, but I don't want to blow out my ear drums and be deaf for the rest of my life in the unlikely and unfortunate event that I have to use a gun to defend my home. I know handguns are loud too... but I can't even imagine firing a 12 gauge inside a house without hearing protection on. I have considered a set of electronic hearing protection to go near my bed as well so I could grab that quickly along with the weapon... but I figure the less things to worry about, the better! As far as a pistol goes, I like how they're more "convenient", can be hidden easier, and can also be easily carried outside when doing yard work, walking the dog, etc. (No kids just yet, so my wife and I can leave our "go to" guns close by) The nice thing about a SDVE, Shield or M&P 40c is I could buy a Fobus (or similar) holster and carry my "go to" gun with me around the property too. It would be a little tougher to do that with a shotgun. I also like the idea of being able to have one hand free with a handgun in the event I want to pick up something, like my Maglite XL50, hit a light switch, etc. Not that one handed shooting is ideal, but even a shotgun with a pistol grip requires 2 hands on it almost constantly to operate effectively.

As some folks have already mentioned, I have considered a 3rd 9mm as my dedicated "go to" gun at home... and I may very well go that route. The idea of a SD9VE has crossed my mind because it seems like a great value. I also thought about getting one of the new 10 round M&P Pro Series 9mm (model #178048) as my range gun and just using my M&P 9 FS as my "go to" gun at home after adding a Streamlight TLR-1 or Surefire. I do shoot the 9mm round fairly well out of my 2 Smiths and I know that the 147 and 124 grain HPs are very effective at their job, just like the .40 S&W round. I imagine even a 115 grain round like the Critical Defense is nothing to sneeze at! To date I have put 115 gr. Critical Defense, 147 gr. Speer Gold Dot, 124 gr. Remy Golden Sabre, and 135 gr. Critical Duty through both my Shield and M&P FS 9 with no issues... they eat whatever I feed them (so far).

As for the SD40VE, I have never shot one, but a friend who lives out of state has owned one for 2 years and loves it. He keeps it loaded with Hornady Critical Defense 165 gr or Hornady TAP and has never had a problem feeding those two rounds. He keeps telling me to get a SD40VE for $300 and I'll be set... but I keep wondering if an extra $100-$140 for a M&P 40c wouldn't be worth it in the long run. I figure why not spend more on your "go to" gun if it's protecting you and your family.

Another friend of mine owns a M&P 40c and when I recently shot that at the range I managed to get tighter groups than with either of my 9mm's! It didn't seem as "snappy" to me as the Shield .40 either... it seemed pretty smooth. I also shot his two .45's (Glock 30S and Ruger SR1911) and I did not do nearly as well with either of those... and they did not seem as comfortable to shoot. It could be partially due to the 40c having a relatively low bore axis. I have always heard that .45's were more "straight back" recoil, and thus, usually more manageable than the "snappy" .40 S&W round. I was surprised that I liked the M&P 40c more than either .45.

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Old 05-11-2014, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Florida J Frame View Post
My TRR8 gives me revolver dependability, 8 shot capacity, .357 or .38+P fire power and a rail to mount a light and or laser. I think it's the best nightstand gun available. It is also backed up by a 20" Ithaca with 8 rounds of 00 Buck. No little ones in the house.
I love the TRR8, but unfortunately at the moment I can't afford to drop $1,000+ on my nightstand gun. I agree though that it is an ideal "go to" gun for so many reasons!! I can afford to spend about $450 max, which is why I'm considering the SDVE, M&P 40c, Shield .40 or a 642/642 Pro Series.
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Old 05-11-2014, 08:29 AM
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I own the SD40VE and it lives in my nightstand. I've never had an issue with it and find the recoil very manageable. I'm considering a Shield for EDC. Right now I'm leaning towards the 9 for 2 reasons. One, diversity of ammo and; two, I seen a lot of negative posts on the M&P thread about numerous issues with the .40 version. Is the 40c worth the extra $150? To me that answer is dependent on your belief in the quality and ergonomics of the SD40VE. If you trust in both of those (as I do), then I'd spend the extra on quality ammo or a bedside safe (similar to the one shown earlier). Just my $0.02 which, in today's economy, is worth......hmmmm, I might owe YOU. :-)


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Old 05-11-2014, 08:47 AM
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Default My guess.....

My guess is that, all things considered, you'd really like to buy a new gun?

My suggestion: M&P .45ACP Compact.....nine rounds, plus a spare mag in the drawer, with a light.

Although I almost always carry a Glock, the 45C is my choice for a nightstand gun.

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Old 05-11-2014, 09:28 AM
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You like and are comfortable with 9mm. Nothing wrong with that. I personally love 9mm. For your nightstand gun. I would either put a flashlight on your current FS 9 or if you wanted to go the revolver route.. S&W now makes a 7 shot 9mm revolver. I believe it is model 986. That way you get a caliber you are comfortable with in a revolver, which you expressed in interest in. I have personally played with the 986, the trigger is not that bad, especially for a revolver.
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Old 05-11-2014, 09:33 AM
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Mine is a Glock 17 with a Glock combination light/laser on the rail. 9mm over .40 all day and twice on Sunday. Less noise, less recoil, and great defensive loads available.
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Old 05-11-2014, 09:54 AM
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My "Bump in the Night" go-to has been my M&P 40 FS. Though recently I have kept my new Bulldog (.44 Special) near by. It's very handy and I feel comfortable with it in the event things get up close & personal. That said, your 9mm's will fill the bill IMO.

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Old 05-11-2014, 10:17 AM
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I would not suggest having a different kind of gun as your "go-to" gun at night. You would want it to resemble as much as possible the gun you practice with the most.

You start to develop muscle memory the more you train and practice with a gun. This is a good thing during a confrontation, as you have enough other things to focus on.

I'd strongly recommend you get a second M&P9 for this reason instead of a SD9VE.

If you want to collect guns, that's great. If you want guns to have fun with at the range, (Range Toys), that's great. But guns used for defensive purposes, AKA "Work Guns" are tools, not toys. Defending one's life is a serious endeavor, and it should be approached as such.

I'm issued an M&P9 by my employer. If I had the ability to chose my duty pistol, it'd most likely still be an M&P9. It would definitely be a 9mm for a lot of reasons.

My "Bedroom gun" is a privately owned M&P9. My wife's "Bedroom Gun" is an M&P9. If I need to go forth and confront an issue within my house, I don't want my wife defenseless. By keeping both guns the same, she can access whichever is closest to her at the time of need and operate it well.

Just a few thoughts on the topic. Food for thought...
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Old 05-11-2014, 10:39 AM
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I own the SD40VE and it lives in my nightstand. I've never had an issue with it and find the recoil very manageable. I'm considering a Shield for EDC. Right now I'm leaning towards the 9 for 2 reasons. One, diversity of ammo and; two, I seen a lot of negative posts on the M&P thread about numerous issues with the .40 version. Is the 40c worth the extra $150? To me that answer is dependent on your belief in the quality and ergonomics of the SD40VE. If you trust in both of those (as I do), then I'd spend the extra on quality ammo or a bedside safe (similar to the one shown earlier). Just my $0.02 which, in today's economy, is worth......hmmmm, I might owe YOU. :-)


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Don't believe the hype, between myself, family and friends I happen to know several people who own the .40 shield and not a single problem with any of them outside the white falling out of one of the stock rear sights which is not super uncommon with ANY M&P and it's an easy fix at that (bedsides I recommend changing the stock sights anyway).
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Old 05-11-2014, 10:55 AM
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Yes, this...
This is what I use and I keep my Glock 21 .45 acp in it.
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Old 05-11-2014, 11:32 AM
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There are no kids in my household. The only people living in here are myself and my wife, and she can handle guns with the best of them. These facts play a big part in my bedside gun configuration that consists of a mid-sized M&P45 in a holster that is firmly attached to my side of the bed in between the bed and the nightstand. The gun is very easy to retrieve in a hurry but is more or less out of sight and a surefire flashlight sits on the nightstand. The M&P has no external safety to fiddle with and it always has a round in the chamber with ten in the magazine. Two extra magazines are in a nightstand drawer, just in case I don't know what. A loaded twelve gauge sits on my wife's side of the bed, again between the bed and the nightstand. We have a plan if something bad is happening in the middle of the night - she stays put with the shotgun (and dog), calls 911 and stays on the phone with them while I do whatever I think is best at the time. Obviously, communication is important in this situation.

When people come over to visit, the first thing I think of is "the guns". Do they have kids with them? Are they "gun people" or not?? Most often I excuse myself for a moment and secure the firearms in the safe until they leave. If I'm not home, my wife knows to do the same. Accidents happen when you get lazy. Having loaded guns in the house is a big responsibility.

Here's my bedside holster setup:





I forget the name of the company that made the thing and think they are no longer in business. The flat part sits between the mattress and box spring. The holster itself is a Safariland 6377 with the retention parts removed. It's simple and works great.
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Old 05-11-2014, 11:45 AM
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Any one of these. I usually keep the middle one nearby at night, stoked with 14 rounds of HydraShok 230-grain JHPs. The light module is attached, and it has tritium night sights. I considered a .357, but the report from those would blow your eardrums out in an enclosed area, and there is a penetration problem, as well. The .45 is a bloop tube, and the report is not nearly as severe. I also have a spare 13-round mag handy in case a herd of zombies decide to invade...

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Old 05-11-2014, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Beat Trash View Post
I would not suggest having a different kind of gun as your "go-to" gun at night. You would want it to resemble as much as possible the gun you practice with the most.

You start to develop muscle memory the more you train and practice with a gun. This is a good thing during a confrontation, as you have enough other things to focus on.

I'd strongly recommend you get a second M&P9 for this reason instead of a SD9VE.

If you want to collect guns, that's great. If you want guns to have fun with at the range, (Range Toys), that's great. But guns used for defensive purposes, AKA "Work Guns" are tools, not toys. Defending one's life is a serious endeavor, and it should be approached as such.

I'm issued an M&P9 by my employer. If I had the ability to chose my duty pistol, it'd most likely still be an M&P9. It would definitely be a 9mm for a lot of reasons.

My "Bedroom gun" is a privately owned M&P9. My wife's "Bedroom Gun" is an M&P9. If I need to go forth and confront an issue within my house, I don't want my wife defenseless. By keeping both guns the same, she can access whichever is closest to her at the time of need and operate it well.

Just a few thoughts on the topic. Food for thought...
Thanks for the advice! I could not agree more that choosing the right "go to" gun is very serious business. That's exactly why I am seeking the advice of the experts since I do not have all that much S&W pistol experience... although I really LOVE Smith products.

I can definitely see the merits of keeping your guns the same, as much as possible. I may very well end up going with another Shield 9 or M&P FS 9mm. Don't want a M&P 9c because the only 10 round, non-Mass trigger version of the 9c Smith makes has a mag safety and I don't want that. I also don't want to buy the 9c and remove it myself... I was recently told by a local gunsmith not to touch your "go to" gun because in the unfortunate event you ever have to use it, you will be taken to task by the prosecutor for "modifying" your gun... which (in my blue state) obviously means you're a "nut" who was just waiting to murder the poor, innocent criminal who's invading your home!

Another reason I was thinking about a .40 is the opportunity to expand my collection a bit in terms of calibers. So far the only calibers we own for handguns is 9mm and .38 and I like both of those rounds. However, in the event of a possible ammo shortage like 15 months ago, it would be nice to be able to buy .40 if I couldn't find 9mm.... which, by the way, I could not find back in early 2013. What I did find was so ridiculously priced that I would never have bought it.
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Old 05-11-2014, 12:26 PM
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While I can't claim to be an expert, I can state with authority - I LOVE MY GOVERNOR!!! I was testing out Winchester PDX1 410 shells and was very impressed with the pattern (approx. 21 feet).

While I'd had problems with birdshot rounds ballooning in the cylinder, the PDX1s ejected without fuss.

I perceive there is an "OH ****!!" advantage in that it's a very intimidating firearm.

I also thought the recoil was pretty manageable. My wife and mother-in-law fired .45 ACP, 45LC and the .410 rounds without complaint.

I don't know whether your state allows them for sale, however...
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Old 05-11-2014, 12:40 PM
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Get the governor revolver 1st 2 rnds 410 #6 3rd 410 def has a 38 cal slug and some bbs 4th 45colt for a big hole , then your choice maybe finish with 45acp with moon ring they give you some 2 shot rings with the gun, what more can you ask for, mine came with the crimson trace from factory, now you just
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Old 05-11-2014, 12:43 PM
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At the end of the day my EDC goes close to the bed.
Why have multiple options unless you NEED an excuse to buy another gun?
So if I carried my J or K frame all day it is handy at night.
A pair of 12 gauges hang in a rack plenty close enough also, to cover all the bases.
Even being in the country I don't use .357 rounds for defense purposes. Over penetration being the reason. Typically I have 158 gr LWSCHP in the revolvers.
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Old 05-11-2014, 12:48 PM
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get a governor revolver first load 410 # 6 also second load 3 rd load 45 long colt, 4th 45 long colt, 5th and 6th 45 acp mine also has a crimson trace from the factory. So you only have to point, what more could you ask for?
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Old 05-11-2014, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 686-380 View Post
While I can't claim to be an expert, I can state with authority - I LOVE MY GOVERNOR!!! I was testing out Winchester PDX1 410 shells and was very impressed with the pattern (approx. 21 feet).

While I'd had problems with birdshot rounds ballooning in the cylinder, the PDX1s ejected without fuss.

I perceive there is an "OH ****!!" advantage in that it's a very intimidating firearm.

I also thought the recoil was pretty manageable. My wife and mother-in-law fired .45 ACP, 45LC and the .410 rounds without complaint.

I don't know whether your state allows them for sale, however...
I have checked out the Governor and I like it... especially the versatility with ammo! However, at the present time it's a little out of my price range. I can't afford to spend more than $450 or so and new Governors go for $650+ even online.
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Old 05-11-2014, 01:47 PM
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You don't have to invest in a new handgun unless you just want to. The pistols you have are more than adequate for defense. Stoke them with a good quality hollow point and fit a Surefire X300. Spend your 450 on the light, a class, ammo, etc. I am not a 40 fan, bimut it has nothing to do with bullet performance. With today's quality ammo such as Ranger Bonded, HST, Gold Dot, there isn't a significant difference in performance if the bullets are placed effectively. If you fail to obtain a good sight picture or jerk the trigger, don't expect anything to stop an attacker if it's a grazing shot at best. The legendary 357 Mag. 125 gr SJHP is. Still king of the hill, but only with good shot placement, but the recoil is so stout that it is not easy for the average shooter to control.
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Old 05-11-2014, 03:39 PM
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I have the M&P 9FS, 9C, and 9Shield. My bedstand gun is the 9C with an X-grip adapter so I can comfortably use a 17 rnd mag. I know you can only use a 10 rnd but the X-grip does make the 9C even more comfortable to hold than it normally is. Consider a 9C with X-grip to round out your collection. You can even get it in a 40 if you really want a 40.
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Old 05-11-2014, 04:17 PM
forrestinmathews forrestinmathews is offline
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This is very simple. Buy a weapon mounted light for your M&P 9 with the money you were planning on spending on the extra gun. Mount the light before you go to bed and sleep in peace. The extra gun is not necessary with your limited budget. The light would serve you better as would some extra magazines as you're limited to ten rounds. Don't buy an extra logistical problem by buying another different gun on a limited budget.
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Old 05-11-2014, 04:36 PM
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My nightstand pistol is my M&P 9 FS Pro Series. It has night sights, I keep a Surefire flashlight next to it. I also have a Remington 870 with a TLR-1 mounted to it standing by if needed.

I agree with the advice of sticking with your 9 and adding a weapon light. If you choose to use a shotgun for HD, for God's sake DON'T use birdshot!
Do some research you will find that a heavy jacket can stop penetration of birdshot. At a bare minimum use 000 Buck.
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Old 05-11-2014, 06:23 PM
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I think some of the shotgun proponents in this thread are having great difficulty recognizing their ear from their elbow. I, in particular, have some twenty years experience killing things with shotguns with both buckshot and birdshot. Please consider the following for your education since you clearly lack familiarity with the practical capabilities of a shotgun.

•The shotgun DOES require proper indexing upon the target at all times to be effective. The pattern is not sufficiently expanded to be the great catch all for poor marksmen.

•Birdshot for use against targets which can potentially shoot back is ignorant and foolhardy. Be an idiot on your own time and do not advise others to follow blissfully.

•Buckshot is effective at ranges beyond 25 yards even in a cylinder bore choke commonly found on combat variants. The right choke tube can extend the effective range of a shotgun out to over 100 yards with buckshot.

•The further you intend to shoot with a shotgun the larger shot size you will require. This is true for choked and cylinder guns alike; a simple function of inertia versus air resistance.

•00 Buck(0.33" dia.) is likely the most effective size of buckshot for self defense and killing animals up to an including small bears. If you are petrified of over penetration use #4 Buck(0.27" dia.). You will get nine pellets in the standard 00B and twenty seven pellets in 4B.

•Shot fired through a rifled choke tube expands ridiculously fast and cannot be counted on for a reliable and uniform pattern.

• You will get 9, 12, 15, and 18 pellets in 2.75", 2.75" mag, 3" mag, and 3.5" mag in 00B.

•You will not notice any difference in shell length nor gauge when fired in haste or anger.

Okay my rant is over. Please feel free to blaze away clearing the world of scum with great blasts of birdshot. Ha!
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Old 05-11-2014, 06:46 PM
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I would think a nice snubby would be all you need. Five shots ought to deter most any fool enough to break in. Those of you who want 17 rounds or more with multiple magazines must be expecting a zombie apocalypse. A nice .22 would work just as well, they make a lot of noise and would certainly scare the **** out of most anybody. If somebody were to point even a pellet gun at me Id be ducking for cover or running the other way.
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Old 05-11-2014, 06:54 PM
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My FS M&P .45 is now a dedicated night stand companion.


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Old 05-11-2014, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by forrestinmathews View Post
I think some of the shotgun proponents in this thread are having great difficulty recognizing their ear from their elbow. I, in particular, have some twenty years experience killing things with shotguns with both buckshot and birdshot. Please consider the following for your education since you clearly lack familiarity with the practical capabilities of a shotgun.

•The shotgun DOES require proper indexing upon the target at all times to be effective. The pattern is not sufficiently expanded to be the great catch all for poor marksmen.

•Birdshot for use against targets which can potentially shoot back is ignorant and foolhardy. Be an idiot on your own time and do not advise others to follow blissfully.

•Buckshot is effective at ranges beyond 25 yards even in a cylinder bore choke commonly found on combat variants. The right choke tube can extend the effective range of a shotgun out to over 100 yards with buckshot.

•The further you intend to shoot with a shotgun the larger shot size you will require. This is true for choked and cylinder guns alike; a simple function of inertia versus air resistance.

•00 Buck(0.33" dia.) is likely the most effective size of buckshot for self defense and killing animals up to an including small bears. If you are petrified of over penetration use #4 Buck(0.27" dia.). You will get nine pellets in the standard 00B and twenty seven pellets in 4B.

•Shot fired through a rifled choke tube expands ridiculously fast and cannot be counted on for a reliable and uniform pattern.

• You will get 9, 12, 15, and 18 pellets in 2.75", 2.75" mag, 3" mag, and 3.5" mag in 00B.

•You will not notice any difference in shell length nor gauge when fired in haste or anger.

Okay my rant is over. Please feel free to blaze away clearing the world of scum with great blasts of birdshot. Ha!
Raises the question: How fast/much do you want to stop an intruder? While birdshot probably won't kill an intruder, it'll give 'em pause The other aspect is how far you expect your potential target to be...
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Old 05-11-2014, 08:13 PM
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Raises the question: How fast/much do you want to stop an intruder?
Any answer to this other than "instantaneously" is wrong. If you're in fear of your life, warning shots and shots that will "give them pause" are a waste of time and ammo.

You don't shoot to wound. You don't shoot to scare. You don't shoot to annoy. God forbid anyone would shoot to give pause. The only reason to discharge a firearm at anyone is because the shooter believed they were if fear of losing their life or great bodily harm. If that's true, dispatch the assailant with impunity and without remorse.

If there is genuine fear of life or great bodily harm, that threat needs to be STOPPED right now. Anything less means you either didn't have to shoot or you believe their life is more important than yours.
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Old 05-11-2014, 08:15 PM
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Since you're stuck with a 10 round capacity, get a M&P 45 or M&P 45c. That'll work.
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Old 05-11-2014, 08:33 PM
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Go with what you shoot best, don't get something new and unfamiliar. The gun that resides in my night stand is a 6" K38 loaded with the venerable FBI load. I have put thousands of rounds downrange with it and the gun just fits me, it point's like my finger and I rarely miss the black. Some of the side benefits just happen to be simplicity of a revolver, no levers or failure drills to mess with in the dark when I might be groggy, the 6" tube with a .38 special loading helps keep flash and blast down to protect my night vision and hearing better than a snubbie or magnum. I figure six rounds is more than enough to fight my way to the shotgun and the rifle in my den.
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Old 05-11-2014, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Any answer to this other than "instantaneously" is wrong. If you're in fear of your life, warning shots and shots that will "give them pause" are a waste of time and ammo.

You don't shoot to wound. You don't shoot to scare. You don't shoot to annoy. God forbid anyone would shoot to give pause. The only reason to discharge a firearm at anyone is because the shooter believed they were if fear of losing their life or great bodily harm. If that's true, dispatch the assailant with impunity and without remorse.

If there is genuine fear of life or great bodily harm, that threat needs to be STOPPED right now. Anything less means you either didn't have to shoot or you believe their life is more important than yours.
'nuff said.
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Old 05-11-2014, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forrestinmathews View Post
I think some of the shotgun proponents in this thread are having great difficulty recognizing their ear from their elbow. I, in particular, have some twenty years experience killing things with shotguns with both buckshot and birdshot. Please consider the following for your education since you clearly lack familiarity with the practical capabilities of a shotgun.

•The shotgun DOES require proper indexing upon the target at all times to be effective. The pattern is not sufficiently expanded to be the great catch all for poor marksmen.

•Birdshot for use against targets which can potentially shoot back is ignorant and foolhardy. Be an idiot on your own time and do not advise others to follow blissfully.

•Buckshot is effective at ranges beyond 25 yards even in a cylinder bore choke commonly found on combat variants. The right choke tube can extend the effective range of a shotgun out to over 100 yards with buckshot.

•The further you intend to shoot with a shotgun the larger shot size you will require. This is true for choked and cylinder guns alike; a simple function of inertia versus air resistance.

•00 Buck(0.33" dia.) is likely the most effective size of buckshot for self defense and killing animals up to an including small bears. If you are petrified of over penetration use #4 Buck(0.27" dia.). You will get nine pellets in the standard 00B and twenty seven pellets in 4B.

•Shot fired through a rifled choke tube expands ridiculously fast and cannot be counted on for a reliable and uniform pattern.

• You will get 9, 12, 15, and 18 pellets in 2.75", 2.75" mag, 3" mag, and 3.5" mag in 00B.

•You will not notice any difference in shell length nor gauge when fired in haste or anger.

Okay my rant is over. Please feel free to blaze away clearing the world of scum with great blasts of birdshot. Ha!
Never said you didn't have to aim a shotgun. You obviously have to be able to hit your target. However, hitting something with a shotgun does not require the pin-point accuracy of a handgun. Simply put, a shotguns multiple projectiles increases the odds of getting hits. I have yet to see anyone busting clays at the skeet range or bagging doves in the field with a handgun. With your 20 some years of experience (only about 15 years short of mine) you should know it is much easier to hit a cantaloupe at 7 yards with a shotgun than it is with a handgun. Or perhaps you have very little experience with handguns.

Secondly, I would like to see how much fight was left in you after getting a face full of bird-shot from the muzzle of a 12 gauge at 10 or 12 feet, the typical distance across a bedroom. Even if you were high on meth and couldn't feel a thing chances are you wouldn't have any vision left to be able to continue the fight.

Thirdly, a single bullet from any caliber handgun is very unlikely to instantly kill or even incapacitate an attacker unless a direct hit is made to the brain or spine. Even a direct shot to the heart will take several seconds to kill someone allowing plenty of time for them to return fire. Whether using a handgun or shotgun the general rule is to shoot until the threat has been neutralized.

Why do you suppose the Armed Forces and many S.W.A.T. teams around the world still use shotguns in house clearing operations?
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Old 05-11-2014, 11:24 PM
forrestinmathews forrestinmathews is offline
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Raises the question: How fast/much do you want to stop an intruder? While birdshot probably won't kill an intruder, it'll give 'em pause The other aspect is how far you expect your potential target to be...
It's a twelve gauge. When I point it at them and subsequently pull the trigger whomever is on the receiving end is going to talk to Jesus next. The only pause I'll give is that necessary to chamber a new shell, reset the trigger, and assess if another load is justified.


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Never said you didn't have to aim a shotgun. You obviously have to be able to hit your target. However, hitting something with a shotgun does not require the pin-point accuracy of a handgun. Simply put, a shotguns multiple projectiles increases the odds of getting hits. I have yet to see anyone busting clays at the skeet range or bagging doves in the field with a handgun. With your 20 some years of experience (only about 15 years short of mine) you should know it is much easier to hit a cantaloupe at 7 yards with a shotgun than it is with a handgun. Or perhaps you have very little experience with handguns.

Secondly, I would like to see how much fight was left in you after getting a face full of bird-shot from the muzzle of a 12 gauge at 10 or 12 feet, the typical distance across a bedroom. Even if you were high on meth and couldn't feel a thing chances are you wouldn't have any vision left to be able to continue the fight.

Why do you suppose the Armed Forces and many S.W.A.T. teams around the world still use shotguns in house clearing operations?
Great...the birdshot enthusiasts are back. Why do you suppose the armed forces don't use bird shot? It's a shame that in those fifteen years you had on me you didn't figure out bird shot wasnt for home defense. I have plenty of experience with handguns, but I can also read and the OP said he didn't want to go that route. However, when the mighty shotgun was painted as the room broom by someone who refuses to admit the truth about patterns inside 10 yards, I figured I'd speak up. I will admit this: I have no idea how many rounds a guy with a face full of birdshot can crank off before going into shock. The answer for the buckshot recipient: zero.
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Old 05-11-2014, 11:31 PM
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I see a lot of advice on this gun or that, this cartridge or that, revolver, semi-auto. Keep what you have, practice with what you have and GET GOOD TRAINING, even if it means going out of state. Good training will benefit you far more than a new, different whatever for your night stand. Then get GOOD LOW LIGHT training. Use the gun you have, use the ammo that you are used to. New guns are fun, I love them, I love to shoot them, but beware the man with only one gun for he probably knows how to use it.
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Old 05-11-2014, 11:58 PM
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I have many pistols available. I carry a Sig 229 40 S&W. I keep an old 1980 Remington Wingmaster 870 Police 12 ga. shotgun close in the house. 18 inch, extended magazine with 000 buckshot. Inside a room it will get the job done. Look for an older Wingmaster 870 police shotgun and you will not be disappointed.
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Old 05-12-2014, 12:03 AM
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I've read most of the replies and some of what I say may be repetitive. Just a few thoughts and a few opinions.

First, bird shot is for the birds and birds only. Many tests have proven that bird shot is an extremely poor choice.

But since you're reluctant to use a shotgun then you must use what you have. IMO you are over thinking things. Don't. The guns you have are more than adequate to protect your home.

Also, you mentioned something in 40SW. There is the possibility that your wife may need to use that gun. Maybe it was close at hand. Closer than her gun. Maybe she picked it up after you dropped it because you were shot or were attacked. She may not like to shoot it or be able to shoot it. Especially if it's a compact 40.

Hand held lights and gun mounted lights must be practiced with. Have a home defense plan and discuss it with your wife. Make sure things are clear as to what your roles are.

Finally, IMO a full size gun is best for home defense. You already have a good one in the M&P. Save your money and buy more ammo.

For the record, my home defense guns are as follows but I do have other guns.

A youth model 870 20 ga with slugs. An M&P 9 full size with Crimson Trace lasergrips. And a S&W 19 with 38 +P. And three handheld lights strategically placed. Both my wife and I can shoot each gun effectively. We have a plan.
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Old 05-12-2014, 12:08 AM
forrestinmathews forrestinmathews is offline
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I have many pistols available. I carry a Sig 229 40 S&W. I keep an old 1980 Remington Wingmaster 870 Police 12 ga. shotgun close in the house. 18 inch, extended magazine with 000 buckshot. Inside a room it will get the job done. Look for an older Wingmaster 870 police shotgun and you will not be disappointed.
With 2 3/4" chambers! Change out a few worn parts and its ready to go another 100,000 rounds. Best part: somebody else broke it in for you. Slick as glass!
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Old 05-12-2014, 01:44 AM
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To the OP: Sound 357-164.3 Db,9mm 159.8 Db, 12 ga 161.50 18" barrel, no you will not go deaf from firing one or the other, I have and I am not deaf, YET.
Birdshot: I am not sure what size your talking about , but 4,5,6 shot form a 12 or 20 ga at 30 ft or less will provide instant stops with a center chest. I am not aware of any research that shows a "heavy leather jacket" will stop "birdshot", I would love to see the "research". My experience is in the ER and autopsy table, 4-6" ragged hole without heart and lungs proved fatal, immediately. That said I use a semi 12 with 00 buck, I have no penetration anxiety, ( I could 7.62 steel core and not hit anyone). I do not believe there is any benefit in the universal pump sound when someone is at my bedroom door, since at that point they broken into the house, have killed both of my Rotts and are not there for breakfast. 9/40/45 with effective bullets, with good shot placement will all work assuming you have enough light to see, night sights a must. My edc is a sigma 40 f, I own SD40, MP40,glock 22,23,27, plus a few 357 sigs to round that out.there is a 15 rd mag and one in the chamber, a spare next to the light and gun, 2 more mags in the open drawer. Hanging on the wall is a ranger belt ready to go with another loaded sigma and 2 mags,knife, cuffs, etc. Next to the belt is an AR in 300 blk with a can, these are mine, my wife has her own weapons on her side. Last timed response from local sheriffs office was 45 min to shots fired call and they were 8 miles closer, big county , few deputies, not their fault.
Unless you use a suppressor all will be loud. If you want another gun by another spare of your edc or spend the money on ammo, training, and lights.
As stated above this is serious, life changing, treat you tools well, make sure they work, train hard, you are fighting for your life. Do not forget MURPHY!! Be Safe,
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