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  #1  
Old 07-23-2013, 09:28 PM
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Default M&P Shield 9mm or Kahr CW9 for carry

I know this is a S&W
forum but I am torn between these two handguns for personal carry. I am not interested in the smaller framed Kahrs. What are the pros and cons of these two pieces. Interested minds want to know.
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Old 07-23-2013, 09:49 PM
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I have both. I also have the CM9. The CM9 beats both for sheer conceal ability. Sticking to the Shield/CW9 question, it's a wash...both are almost identical in size and weigh the same - in any carry position, both conceal just as well. Now, all of this applies to the Shield only if you're using the 7rd magazine - the 8rd magazine, to me, defeats the whole purpose to the point I sold my 8rd magazine and carry 7rd mags in the shield exclusively.

Each to his own - I carried both. Personally, for a "beat around" gun I choose the Kahr, simply because I don't want to test the limit of my Shields sweat tolerance and durability - I like it too much! The Kahr is cheaper, thus cheaper to replace.

The Kahr has a better trigger out of the box (by a lot) but...well...you decide!
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:00 PM
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Get the Shield for IWB carry.
Get the CM9 for pocket/ankle carry.
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:37 PM
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Kahr = trash, forget about it and stick with the shield.
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:46 PM
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I bought the Kahr C9 with night sights long before the Shield was made, and have carried and shot it a lot. The trigger and accuracy are superb. I was considering buying a Shield also and then the panic buying hit.
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:55 PM
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Kahr for the win.

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Old 07-23-2013, 10:59 PM
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Shield.
The Khar, while some are reliable, has had MANY issues with quality control. The Shield is a much better gun. Made in the USA to boot. It is also an ideal balance between a hideout gun and a fistful of real weaponry. Perfect for daily carry.
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:17 PM
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I carried the Kahr CW9 for a year until I got to shoot the Shield. I switched to the Shield as soon as I was able to obtain a holster for it. My accuracy with the Shield was just way better and mine's a 40SW.
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkitch View Post
Shield.
The Khar, while some are reliable, has had MANY issues with quality control. The Shield is a much better gun. Made in the USA to boot. It is also an ideal balance between a hideout gun and a fistful of real weaponry. Perfect for daily carry.
Just so you know, the Kahr guns are made in the same state as S&W.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vernSL View Post
Just so you know, the Kahr guns are made in the same state as S&W.
Massachusetts - Kahr Arms is owned by Justin Moon, son of Rev. Sun Myung Moon. Here's an article on this very interesting story - Money, Guns, and God
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:04 AM
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Having owned both, I went with the Shield just because the quality was nicer. The shield feels better in the hand, more ergonomic, though the Kahr isnt that far off. Both are still thin and very easy to conceal. My biggest complaint with the Kahr, was field stripping it. Nowhere near as easy as the shield to field strip. Also the Kahr doenst have metal guide rods and after using it for a bit started seeing some plastic shavings. I heard this is normal to happen for the break in on the Kahr's, but I couldnt get past the plastic guide rails.
Shield feels right and feels good, no regrets buying it.
Hope this helps.

Note: I love Kahr triggers, and will probably own a Kahr, but it will be the steel frame versions, K9, MK9.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modraker View Post
Massachusetts - Kahr Arms is owned by Justin Moon, son of Rev. Sun Myung Moon. Here's an article on this very interesting story - Money, Guns, and God
I was under the impression home base is MA but assembly operations in NY. Could be wrong though.

My vote on this one goes to the Kahr but the PM9. I have had 2 PM9's (wife has one) and I often carry the PM40. Takes some gettign use to with the 40 for sure as recoil is stout. Very accurate out to 15 yard line and just like instructed I ran 250 rounds through it before I carried it for SD. Had a few stovepipes during break in but haven't had any issues with either of the 3 PM models I've owned.

Shield is a great SD gun but larger. For me anyway, the Kahr PM is 16oz and fits inside a shirt pocket. That means I will have it on me even in summer. Shiled offers more rounds for sure but with a much heavier carry weight and bulk as well.

Try them out to see how they carry before you make a final determination.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vernSL View Post
Just so you know, the Kahr guns are made in the same state as S&W.
Whoops. I stand corrected. Thank you.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:44 AM
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Have both and like the Kahr better (CM9). Better trigger plus it conceals better is why I go with Kahr.

Trash? that is just silly, its a quality handgun even if you dont like it or have had problems yourself. All handguns have their issues depending who you talk to (Shield included) but neither to the point I'd not recommend one or the other, it's a matter of preference.

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Old 07-24-2013, 08:52 AM
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Default Shield/Kahr 40

I`ve owned a P40(several) for lots of years. The reason there were several is because something(always) happened and they were replaced. Just received a brand new unit from Kahr in April. They are problematic but service is great. Bought a Shield 40 in March and although it was a little problematic(failures to ignite primer...3 trips to S&W, last trip replaced the slide and barrel) it appears to have now licked the problem. Don`t get me wrong, being a little 'problematic' is a Big P.I.A. particularly knowing you just bought a new gun and it fails to fire so to erase that "will it or won`t it" problem you have a large expenditure of ammo to make sure its right after a series of trips to S&W.But...in your comparison the Shield is shorter in the grip than a P/CW model even with a flat base mag in the Kahr...better for pocket carry. The Shield appears to be a little more accurate also and finally the Shield has a lifetime warranty vs Kahr with 5 years. I vote for the Shield after "much ado". John
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:03 AM
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I have the Shield which is easy to conceal with the correct holster. I use HighNoon Bare Asset IWB. But do not discount the SIG P290RS. It is ultra concealable, easy to shoot and accurate. It is also a quality gun. I carry it in an Elite ballistic nylon holster. Depending on what I wear dictates what I carry. BTW, I had a Kahr PM9 and like the quality of the Shield over it. And, as has been stated, Kahr gives a 5 year warranty (and I have had problems with them honoring their warranty-long story, but they never did honor it) and S&W gives lifetime. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:13 AM
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I have a Shield and the smaller PM9 from Kahr. Both are very well made. If you like DA triggers go with Kahr as it is the best in the market. The Shield has pretty much attained icon status as a great carry gun so if you like striker fired short stroke triggers with a side mounted safety S&W has it all for you.
If I had to sell one, my Shield or PM9, it's bye,bye Shield.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:23 AM
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Let me begin by being upfront that I am a huge fan of Kahrs. My CCW of choice is my PM9. Never yet had an issue past the break-in period and dead-on accurate to distances that make my head spin for such a tiny gun. The issue most frequently encountered with those considering a Kahr is whether they like the DAO trigger. This is a huge personal preference issue and obviously I love the Kahr triggers. Much more so than my M&P 40C that has had trigger work.

The differences in trigger aside, the 3 main advantages I see for the Shield are that as others have said it is much easier to field strip. Secondly, I believe the Shield will manage the recoil a bit better than a Kahr. Lastly, the lifetime warranty.

Accuracy matters to me and in my experience the Kahrs are tough to beat by any competitor accuracy-wise if you like their triggers. I have found the Kahrs to be extremely durable and reliable. I also never have to worry about the finish on them being compromised by the environment they are carried in.

The bottom line to me is that either way you can't go wrong and so many items of comparison are purely subjective and a matter of personal preference. When I hold a Kahr in my hand I feel I'm holding a quality firearm that is machined to very tight tolerances and will be more accurate than I will ever be. Plus, did I already mention I love the Kahr triggers?

Anyway, my choice would be the Kahr but I would never, ever turn my nose up at a Shield either.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:45 AM
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^^Well said
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rzola View Post
I know this is a S&W
forum but I am torn between these two handguns for personal carry. I am not interested in the smaller framed Kahrs. What are the pros and cons of these two pieces. Interested minds want to know.
rzola:

I owned the Kahr CM9 before purchasing a Shield 9mm.

I would suggest you checkout the kahrtalk forum before you decide especially the kahr tech link.

The tinkering some have posted on that forum including squeezing the sides of the magazine in a vise to ensure a proper fit was the final straw for me.

I ended up hot gluing the base plate of the Kahr magazine after it kept coming off at the range.

What a joke of a gun. Seriously, when you must resort to using the wife's hot glue gun you begin to wonder which a person should pack the Kahr or the glue gun?

Russ
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Old 07-24-2013, 01:08 PM
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I would choose the Shield only for the fact that it's a Smith & Wesson M&P.

I suggest that you try to rent or borrow both & make a comparison. Go with the one you shoot best & fits the type of use that you plan for it.

If you were to buy a handgun at a police supply store the Shield sells for $399 including 2 mags whereas the Kahr CM 9/40 has a $364 with one mag. The Kahr CW 9/40 with one mag sells for $344. Basically a wash. Expect up to a year wait at those type of stores for Shields. I don't know about the Kahr.

Concealability is not a factor for me. I conceal a FS M&P 40 & Sigma 40VE (same basic size as a Glock 23) pretty well & have a 40 compact on order which I expect to conceal somewhat better.

I'm sure price & availability at a regular gun store is altogether different.
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscut View Post
I was under the impression home base is MA but assembly operations in NY. Could be wrong though.
The Kahr Arms website's Company Profile says: Kahr's corporate headquarters are located in Blauvelt, New York. Production and assembly operations are located in Worcester, Massachusetts, in the region commonly known as "Gun Valley."
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:46 PM
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Long time lurker but had to get in on this. I own a shield 9, CW9 and CM9. All are great firearms.

I would never say Kahr is "garbage" they are fantastic especially the c series for the price.

I carry my XDS or my CM9 most of the time. Its not that I don't like the shield, its great but not as small as the CM9. I rarely carry the CW just because its bigger much like the shield (about the same size). The triggers are completely different with Kahr being more of a DA smooth longer pull. Revolvers guys love the kahr triggers. Shield is your run of the mill striker trigger which is great.

as far as fit, the CW9 fits most hands PERFECTLY. Kahr does a great job with ergo's and both of my kahrs have NEVER failed a single round with about 600+ rounds thru each. Take down is a little harder but if I can do it anyone can. you just have to pull out the lever instead of just rotating it like on the shield. NOT a factor in deciding..

I love all of them to be honest and wouldn't sell any of them ever. they all have their place. Let your hand be the guide, hold them, shoot them if you can and see what fits you. Neither is a bad choice. Both Kahr and SW make quality guns and I would never call either junk. I love my shield but the kahr points a little more naturally for me.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter991 View Post
I would never say Kahr is "garbage" they are fantastic especially the c series for the price.
I bought a new CM40, had several failure to feeds within the first 100 round, tore a ton of skin off my trigger finger & the follower on one of the mags with 30-40 rounds broke during the initial range session. I'm glad you've had luck with yours, but it's the only gun I've ever shot I'd describe as a ***. Never had any issue with my M&P 40s, I've owned Glock & H&K and all have functioned flawlessly over thousands of rounds.

I sold the CM40 back to the LGS the same day at a significant loss, if I was unable to sell it, I would have tossed it in the garbage where it belonged.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:50 PM
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I guess what it really comes down is personal choice. Each of us are correct in our assessment. But, it is individual choice and OP will have figure it out for himself.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:53 PM
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I am new to the Forum and the M&P Shield 9mm. I bought it for conceal carry. I use a Desantis Super Fly pocket holster. After I got the holster I put the pistol in the holster over night for a few nights and the pistol comes out fast and crisp. When I draw from the front pocket I quickly found out my rear sights were 'snagging' on my pocket. I had to wiggle a few times and the pistol would come out fine. I made a draw correction: I now draw with my index finger down the side, three other fingers on the pistol grip, and my thumb on top of the rear sights. I have no more 'snags' with my thumb as I draw out. With this hold my pistol draws out in a second or less and no issues with my Desantis Super Fly pocket holster moving. Also, as my pistol comes up to a horizontal position my safety is switched off with my thumb (all in one motion). I am extremely happy with my M&P Shield 9mm and my pocket holster. I just need a belt. :-)

Last edited by Sturmgewehr44; 07-24-2013 at 05:52 PM. Reason: clarity
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  #27  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:26 PM
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Default choices

Have a kahr pm9
Had 9mm shield
Both are nice enough.
I have had 2 kahr 9mm never a jam.
Shield worked fine also.
Personal preferences will vary
Now if kahr had a glock trigger I'd be delighted.
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:36 PM
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Shield all day. I have both the Shield and the CW9 and it's a world of difference. Especially in the trigger, the CW9 trigger isn't that great in my opinion. Very vague, you can't judge very well when it is going to trip the sear. Even the Shield is more practical for me when CC, I have a thin frame (me, not the gun) and the Shield just sits better in my waistband and doesn't protrude as much.
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:01 PM
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Now ol' Doc Sunshine says the Kahr =trash, but I just don't agree with that. I have had a Kahr CW9 for a lot of years and carry it about everywhere I go. I have sent a lot of lead through the bore and have yet to have the first problem with it. Maybe the shield is just as good, I don't know, don't own one, but if there's a better totin', better shootin' gun than the Kahr, I ain't seen it.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocSunShine View Post
I bought a new CM40, had several failure to feeds within the first 100 round, tore a ton of skin off my trigger finger & the follower on one of the mags with 30-40 rounds broke during the initial range session. I'm glad you've had luck with yours, but it's the only gun I've ever shot I'd describe as a ***. Never had any issue with my M&P 40s, I've owned Glock & H&K and all have functioned flawlessly over thousands of rounds.

I sold the CM40 back to the LGS the same day at a significant loss, if I was unable to sell it, I would have tossed it in the garbage where it belonged.
The CN40 had some issues with mag followers, not the 9mm as far as I know. Kahr has been very good about fixing them for those affected.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:01 AM
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I have the Kahr PM9 and the Shield 9...love them both. I've not had one issue with my Kahr and have put hundreds of rounds through it, I would trust it with my life. I don't have as many rounds down range with my Shield, as it's still relatively new, but based upon my experience with my M&P's (3 other pistols) I don't anticipate any issues with the Shield. In my experience, the M&P line is spot on.

To each his or her own. You can't go wrong with either one, it's a matter of what feels good to you.
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter991 View Post
The CN40 had some issues with mag followers, not the 9mm as far as I know. Kahr has been very good about fixing them for those affected.
Maybe the 9mm is better, but the .40 is complete junk.
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:30 PM
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'nuff said!! LOL!!
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:46 PM
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Hello to all members:

I feel disappointed as We that have some pistols . . . . S&W ! So when we are in need on parts The S&W refuse to supply that specific parts.
I have a question on what is their responsibility as a distributer, or as a Dealer , to provide the parts as need by their customer's; or is like they don't want to go the extra mile to help those persons that have purchased their bred new PISTOLS!? I don't believe that they are restricted to supply parts for our pistols; they only want to close the Doro on our face. What is your opinion?
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:40 PM
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Before the Shield came out I got a CM9. Went to the tech forum for Kahrs and did a lot of reading. Followed all the tips. My gun is finicky with ball ammo. The 7 round mag never was reliable. The followers of both the 6 and 7 round mags hit the mag catch on the way up. I don't understand why they would design it that way. The only reason I carry it is because it fits in my front pocket.
The Shield is bigger but if I had to do it again I would pass on the Kahr.
I feel it is too finicky on ammo and magazines.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:22 PM
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I love, love love my Shield! I have shot about 700 rounds through it so far and it has never failed me. It is accurate. The only problem I have with it is after taking it down and cleaning and putting it back together you have to lock the slide back. It is so stiff and hard to get it all the way back & lock. It could be that I am a woman with small weak hands. I am 63. It is slowly getting easier. That spring is so stiff, I hope it will eventually break in. I am very happy with it, especially after having issues with my Bodyguard 380 which is a bit finicky with ammo. I feel like the Shield is more reliable, but harder to conceal. I can carry in my purse just fine, don't know if I could conceal on body like I can the 380. Having a harder time finding 380 ammo also. My store has quite a bit of 9mm now so this is now my favorite gun to shoot, besides my M&P 15-22 rifle, LOL.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:24 PM
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Default CW9 v M&P Shield

Have had both, but I prefer the Shield for several reasons:

The Shield has a safety that the Kahr does not have.
The Shield, being S&W, will have a better selection of holsters available when the dust settles.
The rails on the Kahr polymers are not reinforced with steel.
The Shield trigger, a personal preference issue, is like the triggers on the other M&P guns. Aftermarket APEX trigger kits for the Shield make it even better than it is from the factory.

Gave my CW9 to my son. He likes it, but likes the Shield better.

Both of our guns have CT chin lasers on them.

Have had 3 Kahrs and 5 M&Ps at one time or another over the years. The M&Ps will win hands down 90% of the time for me. If you have an interest in another great, but underappreciated gun, try the Ruger SR9c. The Shield is slightly thinner, but the SR9c is a more robust gun than either the Shield or CW9.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:55 PM
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Default Smith or Kahr

Quote:
Originally Posted by rzola View Post
I know this is a S&W
forum but I am torn between these two handguns for personal carry. I am not interested in the smaller framed Kahrs. What are the pros and cons of these two pieces. Interested minds want to know.
I bought the 40 cal. MP Shield and I've had problems with magazine dropping while shooting a magazine. The dealer said to pump some more rounds through it, hoping apparently to loosing things up. It's tough to get rounds through it when every other round fails to feed property. Go with the Kahr.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pistol View Post
I love, love love my Shield! I have shot about 700 rounds through it so far and it has never failed me. It is accurate. The only problem I have with it is after taking it down and cleaning and putting it back together you have to lock the slide back. It is so stiff and hard to get it all the way back & lock. It could be that I am a woman with small weak hands. I am 63. It is slowly getting easier. That spring is so stiff, I hope it will eventually break in. I am very happy with it, especially after having issues with my Bodyguard 380 which is a bit finicky with ammo. I feel like the Shield is more reliable, but harder to conceal. I can carry in my purse just fine, don't know if I could conceal on body like I can the 380. Having a harder time finding 380 ammo also. My store has quite a bit of 9mm now so this is now my favorite gun to shoot, besides my M&P 15-22 rifle, LOL.
Hey, pistol. I'm with you on the tight spring on the Shield. It can be a bear to lock back when putting it back together after cleaning. It's definitely not as easy as my M&P 9 and 9c. Hopefully, it'll get easier

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Last edited by MX5Fan; 07-26-2013 at 02:45 PM.
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  #40  
Old 07-25-2013, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squash15B View Post
Have had both, but I prefer the Shield for several reasons:

The Shield has a safety that the Kahr does not have.
The Shield, being S&W, will have a better selection of holsters available when the dust settles.
The rails on the Kahr polymers are not reinforced with steel.
The Shield trigger, a personal preference issue, is like the triggers on the other M&P guns. Aftermarket APEX trigger kits for the Shield make it even better than it is from the factory.

Gave my CW9 to my son. He likes it, but likes the Shield better.

Both of our guns have CT chin lasers on them.

Have had 3 Kahrs and 5 M&Ps at one time or another over the years. The M&Ps will win hands down 90% of the time for me. If you have an interest in another great, but underappreciated gun, try the Ruger SR9c. The Shield is slightly thinner, but the SR9c is a more robust gun than either the Shield or CW9.
Not true on the rails. They are not polymer they have steel inlay. Geeezzzz
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  #41  
Old 07-26-2013, 08:52 AM
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I'm with those who say it's mostly personal preference. I bought a CW9 for my wife (she dry fired it several times at the store), but she just couldn't get comfortable with the trigger after we took it home and loaded it up - same with my three daughters, who have a habit of walking off with my favorite guns. I tried the CW9 myself, loved it, and it's now my EDC. I like that the sear releases with absolutely no stacking or warning, and the ergonomics are great. I consider the long trigger pull the equivalent of a safety. My wife is lusting after a Shield, but for now she's very happy with her Chief's Special C9.

Both are quality guns, in my opinion. Try both and buy the one you shoot best.

HoWink
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  #42  
Old 07-30-2013, 11:51 AM
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I carried a P9 for many years and it served me well. I bought a Shield the third day they were released. I took them both to the range to see which one I liked better. They both shot well, but I started to lean toward the shield.

The next day I was sitting at my work bench and cleaning both pistols. As I wiped down my P9, I was shocked to find that both frame rails had begun to crack. The left side rail was less than a quarter of an inch from seperating from the frame. In the over five years I had that pistol, I had shot less than 500 rounds through it. I estimate I was one or two magazines away from having a catastrophic malfunction. I sent the P9 back to Kahr, and because it was out of warranty, I had to pay $250.00 to have the frame replaced.

During the time my Kahr was back at the factory, I shot a total of 680 rounds through my Shield. I did not have a single malfunction. The Shield is completely solid!

When I got my Kahr back, a friend of mine wanted it, and since I no longer had any confidence in the Kahr, it went to a new home. (And yes, I advised my friend of the frame problem, but he didn't care.)

IMHO as a firearms instructor for over thirty years, the Shield is the better of the two pistols, and is what I now carry on a daily basis!
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  #43  
Old 08-03-2013, 05:06 PM
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I have the Shield9 & the CM9. I used to carry the CM9 until I took a 2 day course with it at front sight. I had all kinds of type 3 malfunctions during the course. The one issue most people have with the Kahr CM/PM is the mag doesn't drop free from the factory. My other issue was drawing the gun with a proper grip fast enough get good hits before the flip target turned away was a task. I don't have that problem with a FS gun or my friends Shield which I shot briefly during the course. From my experience if I shoot slow I would get no malfunctions but if I do control pairs my CM9 falls short. Needless to say I retired the CM9.
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Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols Thread, M&P Shield 9mm or Kahr CW9 for carry in Smith & Wesson Semi-Automatic Pistols; I know this is a S&W forum but I am torn between these two handguns for personal carry. I am ...
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