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Old 08-25-2013, 07:51 AM
fallhunter fallhunter is offline
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Default What ammo do most Law Enforcement agencies use?

Curious on this one. Not sure if its knowledge allowed to the public or not, but what .40 or 9mm rounds do they use? I would guess they don't all use the exact same ones.

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Old 08-25-2013, 07:57 AM
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We used Speer Gold Dots.
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Old 08-25-2013, 08:02 AM
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Once upon a time Federal Nyclads, which still are great rounds. Now days, it's Federal HST's or Winchester Ranger depending on the gun/caliber.
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Old 08-25-2013, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S&W45Colt View Post
Once upon a time Federal Nyclads, which still are great rounds. Now days, it's Federal HST's or Winchester Ranger depending on the gun/caliber.
Ditto

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Old 08-25-2013, 10:33 AM
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LA County Sheriff's and LAPD both use 147gr 9mm. I know LASD uses the Winchester Ranger-T in both 9mm and .45 (230gr) and while last I heard LAPD was using Federal HST 230gr .45, they were still using Winchester Ranger-T 147gr 9mm. I wouldn't be surprised if they are using HST now for the 9mm but I don't know.

LASD also issues Speer Gold Dot 55gr .223 and approves Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P for .38 backups/off-duty.
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:02 PM
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The criminals don't worry the cops only use Glocks, its a joke Ok
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:14 PM
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From what I've read it was Gold Dots for a long time and HSTs are increasing.
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:50 PM
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Speer Gold Dots are one of the most popular LEO ammo

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Old 08-25-2013, 02:58 PM
charlie sherrill charlie sherrill is offline
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40 cal 165 or 180 gr. Ranger in a Glock 22. I killed two bucks with the 180 grain stuff. Now retired I carry 165 gr. Hornady ZombieMax in my S&W M&P 40.
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:12 PM
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My agency used the 180 gr. Winchester Ranger. The other local agency used 180 gr. Federal HST. I have no doubt either would get the job done.
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:44 PM
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We used Winchester-Ranger for duty and Blazer
Or American Eagle for qualifying.
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:27 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallhunter View Post
Not sure if its knowledge allowed to the public or not, . . . .
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I have to say I am shocked that you would question whether the "public" has a right to know what ammo is used by various civilian police agencies. Have we really come so far in our culture of "us" and "them" that police or non-LE taxpayers would think such information to be "classified?" It is not like we are talking nuclear launch codes here.

The answer is that the types of ammo used varies as much as the types of fire arms used. It also varies by whether officers are required to purchase their own or whether the agency buys it for the officers.

The ammo used by the larger agencies is generally known, but changes from time to time, so information that is generally out may not still be accurate, so I will give you what I last saw reported for a few agencies, at least to the best of my recollection.

St. Louis Metropolitan Police uses a 147 grain 9mm JHP made by Winchester.

FBI uses a white box packaged PDX1 load marked on the boxes as merely a bonded hollow point made by Winchester, .40 S&W caliber, 180 grain.

NYPD uses the Speer Gold Dot 124 grain JHP +P in 9mm. To the extent they still allow revolvers, their ammo is the Speer Gold Dot Short barrel 38 Special ammo.

Secret Service uses .357 SIG JHP ammo, but not sure of manufacturer.

I cannot really recall other agencies right now.
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Old 08-25-2013, 06:04 PM
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We can use speer gold dot in 180gr. Otherwise Federal HydraShock in 165 or 180gr.

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Old 08-25-2013, 08:01 PM
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I would have to say based in my observations and experience that the two most popular are the Speer Gold Dot and the Winchester Ranger Bonded in whatever caliber flavor the agency/department authorizes. Remington Golden Saber and Federal Hydra Shok and HST are also still in use. I don't know if its an equal split. In 40 caliber, I mostly see bullets of the 180 grain variety, while 45s still tend to be the proven 230 grain. As 9mm is resurging in popularity, I can't say what is most common. My folks mandate the 147 grain, either Ranger Bonded or Hydra Shok for carrying 9s, and the Winchester 147 is reputed to be much better than the Hydra Shok. The 124 grain bullets seem to be gaining in popularity. The Winchester Ranger 127 grain +P+ has been around for a while, but I'm not hearing anyone complain about its lack of effectiveness; just like the old Federal 115 grain +P+ BPLE.
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Old 08-25-2013, 08:09 PM
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We are issued Remington Golden Saber in 180 grain for our Sig 229R 40 S&W pistols. One officer who still carries a Glock 21 gets the same round in the 240 grain flavor.

Our issued rifle ammunition is the 55 grain Federal Tactical Rifle Urban round.

I was issued 124 grain +P for my off-duty pistol (9mm Glock 26). Allowed to carry any high-quality round in an off-duty pistol that is "substantially the same" as the ammo we are issued.

I actually really like the Golden Saber and can't complain about it being issued.
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Old 08-25-2013, 08:16 PM
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fallhunter-
You can find some info on the ATK LE website:
Law Enforcement - Federal Premium LE, Speer LE, BLACKHAWK!, Eagle - Home

They make both the Speer and Federal. IIRC there are some .pdf's on agency tests somewhere on the website. HTH
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Old 08-25-2013, 09:23 PM
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Golden Sabres are pretty decent too. Same with the Ranger ammo.
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Old 08-25-2013, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checkmyswag View Post
Golden Sabres are pretty decent too. Same with the Ranger ammo.
I have some mostly Golden Saber, Gold Dots and Federal with a sprinkling of Hornady loaded in my handguns/rifles.

I guess I can say that my shotgun have four drag-stabilized beanbags in the tube and another one on the stock, but I don't think the OP was asking about my less-lethal 870.
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Old 08-25-2013, 10:17 PM
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It has been my experience that most police agencies use bullets. Some also use electricity.


In all seriousness, the answer is simple. They use whatever is the cheapest combined with whatever current mythology says is the best "one shot stop" along with what can fit the most in the magazine.
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:01 AM
Biscut Biscut is offline
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I moved my little dept to 165gr HST from Fed Hydra 165gr last year. Fed got lucky with the HST. They were searching for a less labor intensive (the pistil of the Hydra) bullet. HST is NOT bonded yet pretty much acts like a bonded bullet.

The above statement is directly from the Fed rep.

One thing to consider, some of the ammo offered to LE/LE agencies has special blends of powder to decrease flash. I buy it in our 5.56 rounds as we have a few short barreled entry carbines where the flash could be significant and momentarily blind the operator.

One of my favorite 5.56 rounds is Hornady TAP. Huge difference between the LE and civilian version. Bullet is different design as well as a different powder. They won't sell the bullet for reloading either. Damn them!!

BTW the HST is HST no difference in what is sold to LE or Civ.
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:31 AM
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We carry Ranger-T's (230 gr) in our 45s and we are switching to 124 (?) gr Ranger-T's in our off duty nines. Right now in the 9s we are carrying 115 +P+.
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Old 10-28-2014, 08:57 AM
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My agency in New Hampshire issues Winchester 45ACP 230 GR JHP for duty and American Eagle 45ACP 230 GR FMJ for Qual and practice. We carry the Ruger SR45 for duty and I carry the Taurus PT745 off duty.
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Old 10-28-2014, 09:10 AM
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Let's not kid ourselves or the OP...... the answer is........


Whatever the "low bidder" is selling......that meets the specs.


LOL

Last edited by BAM-BAM; 10-28-2014 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 10-28-2014, 09:16 AM
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I just ordered ammo for my city P.D. Their duty ammo is Federal .40 S&W 180 gr. HST. Actually Bam-Bam, that's not right, in our city. I order what they want, off of state contracts. They are particular about duty ammo and sniper ammo. Practice ammo, not so much, as long as the bullet weight and velocity are comparable. At state prices, it's all way cheaper than what we individuals would pay off the shelf, or online. We could choose from Remington, Winchester, Federal, or CCI/Speer. Our dept. is rather old school when it comes to shotgun ammo, it's either buckshot or slugs.
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Old 10-28-2014, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
Let's not kid ourselves or the OP...... the answer is........


Whatever the "low bidder" is selling......that meets the specs.


LOL
Very often that's the reality - been there and done that, but it's always quality, mainstream, hollow point ammo used by law enforcement agencies.
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Old 10-28-2014, 09:31 AM
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It varies by agency. Could be anything, but generally a JHP. The current FBI choice influences selection greatly. I heard they are switching back to 9mm.
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Old 10-28-2014, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
Let's not kid ourselves or the OP...... the answer is........


Whatever the "low bidder" is selling......that meets the specs.


LOL
BAM-BAM is spot on. As one responsible for ordering our ammo, I was allowed to select from a short list within a state bid approved list. Of course, we could buy anything on the market but bid prices cannot be beat.
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Old 10-28-2014, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbraswell View Post
Actually Bam-Bam, that's not right, in our city. I order what they want, off of state contracts. At state prices, it's all way cheaper than what we individuals would pay .
I was making a joke.. .. don't want to start an argument.....and I'm not implying that they get cheap/bad ammo....... but;

"state contracts" are the low bidders... for ammo which, as I said, meets the specs.

Would the City buy ammo at retail if that's what "they wanted"? I imagine they have a list to chose from............I know guys in the "Police Supply" business.... and they are always trying to sell Departments on the line or lines they carry vs. what the "other guy" carries.....

My Dad use to reload the practice and the pistol team's ammo for his Dept.
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Old 10-28-2014, 10:42 AM
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Gold Dot 180 grain, practice with Lawmen 180 grain.
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Old 10-28-2014, 11:25 AM
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Being the Firearms Training Officer, I spec'd the Federal 165 Gr. Hydra shok in .40 cal for our Officers. It carries well due to the nickel plated case, gives good velocity, penetration, and rated stopping power. A little snappy in recoil, but not as bad as the 180 Gr. .40. We work around lots of the public, and the last thing I want is over penetration. Of course most modern pistol ammunition tends to over penetrate. The light 135 gr. .40 hollow points tend to "blow up" on anything hard, such as windshields, so we didn't go with that loading.
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Old 10-28-2014, 12:19 PM
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I am not a LEO, however I buy ammo from somebody here in Phoenix that is, he buys cases of the stuff through the dept., and it's Speer GDHP 180gr or Federal HST 180gr and the practice ammo is the Speer lawman 180gr.

I think police here have to buy their own practice ammo - I've sold it to local police a number of times.
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Old 10-28-2014, 10:29 PM
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9mm Wins the Caliber Wars - The Truth About Guns

FBI going back to 9mm ammunition

LE agencies use a variety of different brand of service duty ammo.

Quite popular are HST, Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber.
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Old 10-29-2014, 12:15 AM
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We use Federal 165 gr HST's in our .40 Glocks down here.
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Old 11-17-2014, 10:26 PM
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Our dept used 180gr Rangers in our G22 and G35's for the longest time and had success with shootings. Last year we switched to Gold Dot. As one of our instructors I asked training why and was told they were just easier to get and abundant.
Works for me, I don't think you can go wrong with either
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Old 11-18-2014, 01:51 AM
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While it doesn't say which agencies use which ammo, I highly recommend reading DocGKR's insight on the topic of carry/duty ammo and what is effective...

Also the FBI memo that was recently linked regarding switching back to 9mm is a very well-written article on the topic.

Most of the agencies local to me in CA run some variety of Federal or Winchester JHP as issue ammo.
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:14 AM
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Pick any quality HP and its used buy departments. Just remember to be sure your handgin reliable it before carry a mag the chamber full.
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
Let's not kid ourselves or the OP...... the answer is........


Whatever the "low bidder" is selling......that meets the specs.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Lou View Post
Very often that's the reality - been there and done that, but it's always quality, mainstream, hollow point ammo used by law enforcement agencies.
For my agency (mid west and very large) the business goes to the one that the city doesn't owe money to, or will float credit net 365+
They issue Winchester bonded, but we can carry what we want as long as it is JHP and within certain bullet weight parameters. The new solid copper bullets are unauthorized. Generally we fire just under 50 rounds a year to keep qualified (primary duty weapon, scary truth). Every bullet comes with a lawyer attached to it that can fix a bad guy faster than a Doctor

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Old 11-19-2014, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallhunter View Post
Curious on this one. Not sure if its knowledge allowed to the public or not, but what .40 or 9mm rounds do they use? I would guess they don't all use the exact same ones.

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When I was on the police force, we used Black Talon (aka Ranger SXT) 147 gr 9mm and 180 gr 40 S&W. However, unless you are a police officer, our needs in a defensive round are different than what a police officer requires....or what they think they require.

Last edited by papersniper; 11-19-2014 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
Speer Gold Dots are one of the most popular LEO ammo

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Also carry ammo, at least in my experience.
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Old 11-19-2014, 12:19 PM
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Milwaukee PD uses Speer Gold Dots in their M&P40s. Since they just 2nd issued new M&Ps it looks like they'll be using .40 cal for at least a few more years. I was able to purchase one of the original M&Ps on a buy back deal. I've never had a problem with the Gold Dots in either the full size or my new M&P 40C.
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