What's up with the 9mm follower design change?

bxojr · Sep 8, 2013

Does anybody know what's up with the apparent design change on the M&P 9mm magazine follower? I've seen at least one other thread here from someone who has had the same problem I'm having, but I'm wondering how widespread it is. (If I missed another thread about this, feel free to point the way.)

Here's the issue. I bought a factory-new M&P 9mm 17-round magazine from Midway USA last week. I've found that the new magazine's follower has a subtle design change: there's a slight taper to the front left corner, where the follower engages the slide stop. The result is that instead of pushing up on the slide stop from below, the follower actually slips past the slide stop and pushes it up from the side.

The problem is that, at least half the time, the slide stop jams so tightly against the follower that the magazine will not drop out when I press the mag release. This means I'm not going to be able to use the new magazine in competition, because I can't trust it to drop out when I need it to.

I saw in another thread that others have seen this problem and have corrected it by reshaping the follower to engage the slide stop. But before I resort to something like that, has anyone communicated with S&W about this issue? It certainly seems to be an intentional redesign of the follower, but I can't believe this is the intended behavior.

In case anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about, here are some pictures. First, an old follower engaging the slide stop from below:

Now, the new follower slipping past the slide stop (you can see how the front corner of the follower is tapered):

S&W Rover · Sep 8, 2013

Very strange. The new follower design might be compatible with a new slide stop bar design -- but obviously should be backwardsly compatible. I've read them made a design change to the slide stop bar recently to push the trigger bar inwards, to assist a more pronounced trigger reset -- no direct impact on the magazine, unless the new one are shaped differently.

FWIW, my new (bought last week, test fired on 17 June 13) M&P40 works like your "old" photo. It does not have the new slide stop bar.

I wonder if S&W got a batch of slide stop bars that aren't "right"?

AwfAxis · Sep 8, 2013

I had this issue when I was experimenting with reversing the Magazine release. With the tension of the magazine catch pushing left to right, it did the same thing you show above.

I just took a screwdriver and bent the mag stop bar a little. In the end however, I put the release back to where it was.

What I noticed though, is when a round is following the final shot, the plastic is pushed left, and normally contacts the mag stop tab correctly. Putting in an empty mag can be problem however.

bxojr · Sep 9, 2013

AwfAxis said:
What I noticed though, is when a round is following the final shot, the plastic is pushed left, and normally contacts the mag stop tab correctly. Putting in an empty mag can be problem however.

Interesting. In my gun, the problem happens in either case. It doesn't matter whether the mag is inserted empty, or whether it runs empty in the gun; either way, the follower slips past the slide stop. I haven't tested this with live ammo, just dry-firing, but I imagine the mechanics would be the same.

forrestinmathews · Sep 9, 2013

My gun and the original mags all match the ones from Midway. Life is good they all drop free.

bxojr · Sep 9, 2013

forrestinmathews said:
My gun and the original mags all match the ones from Midway. Life is good they all drop free.

How old is your gun? I wonder if they redesigned the slide stop at the same time they redesigned the follower.

forrestinmathews · Sep 9, 2013

My gun is an HAC.... 5/9/13 casing date, double dimple barrel.

I got on the bus late. But for the magazine hoarding it would appear to have served me well?

Saudade · Sep 9, 2013

Mine's an HAV. Has the double dimple barrel but the older followers. No mag issues so far.

Smiffer · Sep 9, 2013

My MP9 FS has a test fire date of 05/13. Both of the mags I have look like the first picture, I have not had any problems with them.
I was planning on 1 or 2 new ones from Midway. Should I be concerned that they may not be like the originals?

bxojr · Sep 9, 2013

Smiffer said:
I was planning on 1 or 2 new ones from Midway. Should I be concerned that they may not be like the originals?

No idea, but if you end up getting some, let us know what they look like and how they work in your gun.

Dino1 · Sep 9, 2013

I had a Bersa .380 that did the same thing, a piece of duct tape on the opposite side of the mag spacing it over to the catch solved the problem. I know this is not the way it should be... but it worked. Pistol would not lock back on the last round about 50% of the time until addressed. Or you could try and bend the tab to the follower catch and see if that works. But if it was me, I would send it back for repair. I love the S&W lifetime warranty for new pistol buyers. I only buy my Smiths new for this reason, and have not sold a single one. Starting to think I might try buying some of the more rare and collectable ones now that I have most of the ones I like from the newer line. A 6" 686 come to mind. My buddy has one, and I am deadly lethal with that pistol.

bxojr · Sep 9, 2013

cswann1 said:
S&W robbed Peter to pay Paul on this redesign.

You can pay Peter back with some JB Weld epoxy. I go into more detail in the thread I started.

PM me if you'd like to see a couple of pics of my mags after the mod.

It's good to know there's a mod that will address the problem, but it shouldn't be necessary. IMO, I should not have to "fix" a brand-new factory mag that was supposedly made for my gun, but doesn't work properly. I'm still trying to figure out if this was an intentional design change, and if so, did S&W just fail to test it on older pistols?

If it was part of a redesign of the slide stop, then S&W needs to either a) make "old-style" followers available for those of us with pre-2013 M&Ps, or b) provide upgrades to the slide-stop assembly so the new mag design works like it should.

I'm thinking it's time to contact S&W and see if it's possible to get a straight answer on this. I've never dealt with their customer service before; are they pretty responsive?

Dino1 · Sep 9, 2013

If you look close at the picture the catch seems much closer to the frame in the second picture. Does it move back and forth that much?

bxojr · Sep 9, 2013

Dino1 said:
If you look close at the picture the catch seems much closer to the frame in the second picture. Does it move back and forth that much?

No, it's just the angle of the photo. I can't really see any side-to-side movement of the slide stop when the follower comes up beside it, though there must be some. Either that, or the magazine is getting pushed slightly the other way. Either way, the slide stop is putting enough pressure on the follower to prevent the mag from dropping out when I press the release (though not every time).

Dino1 · Sep 9, 2013

Does it lock back on the last round every time?

mlapaglia · Sep 9, 2013

bxojr said:
Interesting. In my gun, the problem happens in either case. It doesn't matter whether the mag is inserted empty, or whether it runs empty in the gun; either way, the follower slips past the slide stop. I haven't tested this with live ammo, just dry-firing, but I imagine the mechanics would be the same.

Im a little confused. Are you saying that you have not taken the new mag to the range yet and tested it with live fire? If I you have not fired it yet then I suggest you try that before you worry about it. I have 2 like your new ones and both were tight like yours until I fired one mag full through them. Then they were fine.

bxojr · Sep 9, 2013

Dino1 said:
Does it lock back on the last round every time?

Yes, it does. But about 50% of the time, the mag then won't drop free.

bxojr · Sep 9, 2013

mlapaglia said:
Im a little confused. Are you saying that you have not taken the new mag to the range yet and tested it with live fire? If I you have not fired it yet then I suggest you try that before you worry about it. I have 2 like your new ones and both were tight like yours until I fired one mag full through them. Then they were fine.

I only discovered this issue last night, so I haven't had a chance to go to the range yet. Certainly I intend to do that. But in any case, the problem is not something tight that needs to loosen ... the problem is two parts that do not fit properly together. If shooting the gun somehow fixes that, I'll delighted, but I have a hard time seeing how that will happen, and I'm a bit worried about damage to the slide stop and/or magazine.

mlapaglia · Sep 9, 2013

My Son is an armorer and suggested you try giving the gun a good cleaning and lubrication. Not to offend but your gun looks like it might be dirty around the slide stop and magazine. The downward tension of the slide stop spring does help push the mag out. If the mag well is dirty it might be causing increased friction. The old follower holds the slide stop higher and might increase the push from the slide stop lever.

Just a thought.

bxojr · Sep 9, 2013

mlapaglia said:
My Son is an armorer and suggested you try giving the gun a good cleaning and lubrication. Not to offend but your gun looks like it might be dirty around the slide stop and magazine. The downward tension of the slide stop spring does help push the mag out. If the mag well is dirty it might be causing increased friction. The old follower holds the slide stop higher and might increase the push from the slide stop lever.

Just a thought.

Yeah, I'll grant the gun needs to be cleaned, but the magazine is brand-new and clean, and the slide stop does not have anything on it that I can see. There should never be any friction between the slide stop and the follower in any case; the slide stop should sit on top of the follower, not scrape along its side.

Having said that, certainly I would clean the gun and try it with live ammo before asking S&W for any kind of fix. At the moment I'm just trying to understand the design change. It doesn't seem that anyone has heard anything definitive about it.

What's up with the 9mm follower design change?

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