I've been strictly a wheel gun guy until this week (686+), but I've purchased a full size M&P40. This is my first semi-auto, and I have a very basic question. I've seen discussions about whether or not to carry with a round chambered. In order to get a better feel for my new weapon, I wanted to carry without chambering a round, at least for a few days. My question is, how can I do that?

I loaded one magazine with the full 15 round capacity, but cannot insert it into the gun with the slide closed. I had thought that I would be able to insert the magazine and THEN rack a round, but that doesn't seem possible. Everything works fine if the slide is locked back and then the magazine is inserted, but of course, that chambers a round. Is there a way to insert a full magazine without chambering a round in this gun?

Sorry if this seems like a stupid question, but as I said, up to now, I have been strictly a wheel gun guy. Just trying to move into the 21st century...

Give it a good whack on the baseplate. It will swat. Or just load 14 rounds and it will go in easy. If you're nervous about carrying a semi with the round chambered you should probably not have gotten a semi especially a striker fired gun with no hammer. The gun has a manual safety model. Did you get that one?

Try loading the mag one round short, and see if it will then seat properly with the slide already closed.

My understanding from reading here is that, especially with new mags fully packed, the mag springs can be too tight to let the mag seat without the chamber open. Same reason loading that last round takes so much more effort.

Others can probably tell you more, but that's what I'd try in your situation.

don't worry about "hurting" your gun and insert that mag in with a little bit of force. You could also try going with one less round to reduce the tension. Just insert your mag and give it a good slap with your palm of your hand, you wont hurt anything.

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Aim small miss small

There are no stupid questions so not to worry. A fully loaded magazine should seat though it may require some force to do so. Or you can just load it one round shy of capacity and it will be easier to seat. These mag springs are tight when new. The M&Ps were designed to be carried with a chambered round are are basically just as safe as a double action revolver. The only way to have an AD or ND is to pull the trigger.

I just figured that out. After I posted this, I tried it with 14 rounds, and it goes right in. I'm not particularly nervous about carrying with a round chambered, but I wanted to spend an hour or two at the range with it and get a little used to it before I do. I won't be going to the range until later this week. And no, no manual safety.

Yep, the mag springs probably could have been used in a mattress! After fighting with those mags, I decided to try a LULA loader. We'll have to see how that works when it gets here later in the week.

Modern semi-autos have various and sundry safety devices which block the striker from hitting the firing pin unless the trigger is engaged coupled with a long usually relatively stiff trigger pull.

What makes a revolver with a round in the chamber under the hammer inherently safer? Is it the various and sundry hammer blocking devices and a long relatively heavy trigger pull present in most modern production revolvers? Wait...what?

If you're more comfortable with an empty chamber that's your parogative. Just be aware of the handy cap this may create should you ever need to get your weapon into play quickly. Practice presenting the weapon from this condition often so that clambering a round becomes second nature. Practice the many possible scenarios that may come up. Can you rack the slide one handed, how about with your weak hand? You didn't have to think about all this with your wheelgun with a full cylinder.

I'm at a loss as to why experienced wheelgunners have no problem with a fully loaded cylinder in a revolver but have reservations about a chambered round in a modern semi-automatic?

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Life Member B.A.S.S., NAFC

Good stuff. You'll get comfortable with it. I carried my M&P with an empty chamber for a little bit until I had assured myself that the super light trigger wasn't going to get fouled up with the holster or clothes. It'll be fine. I'm a revolver guy also.

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This≠DodgeCity&You≠BillHickok

No, I understand about the long trigger engagement, etc. I just wanted to actually handle the weapon at the range and get used to it before I start carrying with a round chambered. A friend of mine who is a competition shooter went through the blocks, etc with me, so it isn't a fear of having a chambered round, it;s just my personal desire to become a little more familiar with this gun first.

Of course, you might consider carrying a revolver until you get a little more familiar with that deadly weapon you're planning to carry.

That's cool. And certainly a good idea to fully familiarize yourself with your weapon.

Hope my previous post didn't come off sounding like a personal attack. It was not meant as such. I've been shooting handguns of both ilks for nearly 4 decades so my thought pattern on revolver vs loaded semi-auto is somewhat jaded by years of personal experience.

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Life Member B.A.S.S., NAFC

I've been carrying a S&W 686+, .357 magnum, for almost 5 years, and still do. I'm just transitioning to the M&P40. I'll be spending a few hours on the range this coming week, and things will be fine...

Nope, not at all. I just like to be real familiar with any weapon before I start carrying it. Did the same with my 686. Didn't really get into the carry mode until I had spent some time at the range with it. The primary reason for carrying the M&P right now was just to get used to carrying it, determining how it feels, does it impede any normal body movements, etc, and I wanted a full mag since it affects the weight (although after carrying that 686+, weight probably won't be an issue). I didn't take your response as an attack at all.

Seems to me a pistol in condition 1 could be negligently discharged a lot easier than a revolver. For me the equivalent condition in a revolver would be to have the hammer cocked and I am sure nobody thinks that's a good idea. IMHO, we don't carry in NJ so I may be full of beans here but that's how I see it.

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Back to back World War Champs.

Well, the trigger on my 686 takes much less pressure when it is fired single action, and certainly less than my M&P, so I'm not sure that is a good comparison. Sorry for you guys up there in NJ. I lived there for 3 years back in the 70s (McGuire Air Force Base), but I see the gun situation has gotten far worse. I'll never travel to or through a state that has such restrictive gun laws.

Comparing a DA revolver to a striker fired semi auto is a total crock. What's the double action pull on a revolver, about 8-9 pounds? What's the trigger pull on an M&P, about 6 pounds? Glocks ship with a 5.5 pound trigger. No to mention the hammer on a revolver has to come back and then down again before firing, where the striker is invisible on a semi and cannot be prevented from firing with a thumb on the back of the slide like you can with a hammer. Striker fired guns MUST be carried holstered with trigger covered. PLENTY of revolver holsters (many worn by cops) had the trigger exposed. Anybody here ever consider carrying an M&P with the trigger exposed?

If you wanna compare revolver to semi auto, how about a cocked and holstered 1911 to an M&P? A lot closer.

Do not carry that pistol until you are comfortable carrying it with the round chambered. Period. Stick with the revolver with which you are familiar and comfortable.

From a purely mechanical perspective, one of the safest handguns to carry ready to use (round chambered, cocked, safety engaged) is a 1911. You have the mechanical safety, the grip safety, and the one between your ears that helps you keep the booger hook off the loud switch. One has to be really really dumb and really really clumsy (more than I am, which is a feat) to have an ND with a 1911. I carried one as a duty weapon off and on for several years and it is a very user friendly weapon and quite safe if one is properly trained.

It is not all that hard to have an ND with a revolver, if one is careless. It might be a little harder to do than with a pistol, but the level of negligence required either way is indicative of needing a guardianship far more than a pistol, a car, or a real knife. If you have gone 5 years without being that careless with a revolver, you should easily transition to the pistol without any real risk as long as get a little help with the transition in terms of psychomotor skill training.

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NHI, 10-8.

I think the main difference in my mind between my revolver and my M&P is clearing the weapon. With the revolver, you just swing open the cylinder and dump all 7 rounds. With the M&P you have to remember that in addition to ejecting the magazine, you need to rack it back and clear that chambered round as well. It's that attention to the little details that makes all the difference...

Load one round down, i.e. 14 rounds in a 15 round magazine. That will allow enough room between the top round, which is under a great deal of spring pressure, and the pick up rail, to allow the mag to lock in and to rack the slide.

Condition Zero

every other way is pointless

The mag will go in but it needs some force. Do not lock the slide back then insert the mag. I did that and gave the mag a whack to lock it into place and the slide released, therefore a round was chambered without my intensions.

I'm a gun guy. Very comfortable around guns. And I would love to have a 1911. But I know I will never carry one. The idea of walking around with a hammer back is just alien to me. I know about the grip safety and the manual safety, but it doesn't matter. I see the hammer back and I just get nervous.

But the majority of gun accidents happen while reholstering and by THINKING the gun is empty cause you dropped the mag but forgot the one in the chamber. So to me, a revolver is much safer. The NYPD allows the SIG 226, the S&W 5946, and the Glock 19. At the time I retired, EVERY ND with a semi was the Glock. Not ONE with the other two. We were taught to holster with thumb on the hammer to prevent a trigger snag, which is a very real possibility while wrestling with some dude or on a felony car-stop. Not to disparage small agencies, but I know I unholstered my gun probably 10 times a tour.

If carrying a semi makes u worry about carrying hot.

IMO, i'd go back to carrying the revolver. At least it'll be ready to get the job done and may very well save ur life.

Don't blame the gun, blame the person. There's never been an occasion where a gun has gone off without a human present. If there was an ND with a Glock it was because the person involved was not sufficiently trained on that platform.

If you are not comfortable with carrying a semi-auto in condition 1, do not carry it. Train, train, train until you are as comfortable with it as you are with a revolver, which is in condition 1. You are doing yourself a dis-service in the level of protection you are providing yourself and your loved ones if you are not as ready as possible, both physically and mentally.

I am a revolver guy as well, but I've trained with a Glock, a 1911 and a PPK to the point that I can carry any of them in condition 1 and myself in yellow.

I don't blame the gun. But the Glock design (and safety-less striker fire gun especially) are less forgiving of human error, and we are all human. The training of all the cops I worked with was the same, yet somehow the S&W and SIG guys didn't have a problem. I carried the Glock. Chose it when I knew nothing about guns. I sold it and the Glock 26 I had right after retirement.

How is a safety-less semi any less forgiving than a safety-less revolver if both have a round chambered?

Yes but,
No way Jose will I ever carry my Shield 9 with chambered round no matter what the possible eventualities. I'll take some chances over other chances and hopefully..................................

Mark

Holstered? No real difference. Handling the gun? WAY different. 9 pound revolver trigger where the hammer comes back to an invisible striker on a 6 pound trigger? I love both revolvers and semi auto's, but the odds of an ND are much higher with a semi auto.

And yet they are the same if you follow the three rules of safe gun handling.

Don't let some of these guys give you a hard time. You are wise to want to be familiar with a new weapon. Go to the range and practice, practice, practice. I would rather have you carrying a weapon than someone who is overconfident.

the smith has a striker blocker,it will not go off unless the trigger is pulled.Rack the slide open and you can pull the striker back and see it wont go forward because of the striker block.just like a revolver wont go off without pulling the trigger to raise the bar for the hammer to contact the fireing pin.

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S&W Shield 40 owner

I just transitioned to the M&P and I must be honest...all my carry autos have always had hammers I can see (except my P7 but that's a whole nother case)....striker fired guns do make me a tad nervous and it will take some getting used to...one thing I did learn at my dept.training is how important a good holster is with these kinds of guns...so choose wisely....stay away from soft leather than can fold into the trigger guard.....from what I have read and seen, kydex is a popular choice for these kinds of guns...

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

When I took my conceal carry permit class the Arkansas State Trooper giving the class was asked that question. He looked up and said because at that point it's an empty gun and before you can get a round in the chamber you would have a high probability of being shot. He was very serious when he spoke and he said he highly recommended never to carry a gun without it be loaded and ready to shoot.

IN this condition, every day, all day. I love S&W wheelguns, but this is what I carry. A Colt Silver Stallion. Stainless Steel, Officer's Model slide on a full length alloy grip frame, 1 of 500 from Colt, before everybody else started doin' it. Dura Coat black, added nite sights, & Crimson Trace grips. Been in my belt since the day I bought it new, many years ago.



Ned

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Devil's afraid I'll take over.

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One problem NYPD has is the lack of time to do real training, and the staggering percentage of the agency that are NDP (non-dedicated personnel). Most agencies have too many who fit that description; agencies like NYPD are saddled with more of them. This is especially sad when one considers that they are very likely to draw - as you noted, 10X a tour.

I can see it being a little easier to have an ND with the Glock, because there is less tolerance for error. However, we are having a huge thread drift here, too. The OP's issue is transitioning to the M&P, which is foreign based on his experience with the revolver. He is on the right path, as long he does not carry it until he is comfortable enough with carrying it properly loaded - with a round chambered.

As for those uncomfortable with the hammer back carry of a 1911 - not a problem. Don't carry, own, or shoot one.

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NHI, 10-8.

Not helpful but might be interesting… when I first started keeping and carrying a pistol I had the same intention. It lasted around 24 hours - we had gunshots in our street and that sucker went into a round chambered and on my hip straight away. Got me right over it the irrational but somewhat natural fear.

I have no problem with people easing into it. That whole "don't carry unless it is fully loaded" thing… well, I would rather someone carried a day or two without one in the chamber than went the rest of their life without carrying.

First off, don't let these guys give you too hard a time. When I carried my old 4053 s&w it didn't have a safety which I hated so I carried it without a round chambered. However now I have my shield and I keep a round in the chamber plus a full mag.

Personally until you get range time, carry it however you are ccomfortable. But keep it mind that it isn't loaded and train that way until you put a round in the chamber. Even without range time, work on your draw and rack so you are ready as you can be until you get ready and comfortable with it being loaded.

Train how you fight.

The shield has a safety. It would be half cocked and locked. Its a bit large for pocket carry. How do you carry it? To each his own and never do uncomfortable things but the main thing is don't pull the trigger. Finger off trigger and trigger covered in holster. That is for any and all. The very basic. Watch people. Most grab a gun like a monkey with the finger on the trigger. Hand a kid a squirt gun, you'll see it's natural. We all have to break the habit at some point, hopefully sooner rather then later.

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A republic if you can keep it

I fell in love with mine the first time I used it - - my thumbs have threatened divorce if I ever get rid of it.

2 completely different things. A sticker doesn't function like that. In fact even modern DA semi autos don't function like that. In both cases you would need to physically pull the trigger.

To the OP. You can pull the slide back and lock in place then insert the 15 round mag

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