I own one and it is difficult to describe. The closest I can come is it is a 3rd gen smith on steroids. The quality, fit, finishing and accuracy rival my PC pieces. For me my usp compacts are my favorite most accurate out of the box weapons that I bet my life on daily as they are my carry and bedside choices to compliment my smith revolvers. Which trigger configuration are you looking at? I started my HK with the traditional da/sa but have a couple of the lem triggers and love those as well.
I've owned a USP 45c for 10 years now. It has the V1 fire controls (SA/DA/decocker) on the left side of the frame. I bought it new and it came with 3 magazines and night sights. Not sure if they still sell that package or not but, I always thought that was the best value.
The gun has been extremely reliable and is very accurate. I haven't kept track of an exact round count but I would estimate around 5 or 6 thousand at this point. The only failures that I can recall were to fail to feeds with reloads that had not been resized properly (not the gun's fault).
I originally bought it because I liked the ability to carry it cocked/locked like a 1911. I later realized that even in "compact" form it is still a large, heavy gun. I don't carry it much at all but still enjoy shooting it. It's one of those guns that you won't ever sell.
You may want to consider the HK45. This is a newer, slightly updated version of the USP45. I personally like the original styling of the USP but, I think the HK45 is supposed to have better ergonomics. In typical HK fashion, you'll pay the "HK Tax" for any parts that you want to replace or upgrade. Spare magazines are quite expensive. I've often thought about running this gun at a local shooting club but the thought of kicking $60 magazines across the concrete during speed reloads keeps me going back to my M&Ps and XDm's.
I have owned the HK USP 45 compact. Two of them actually. Both were bet your life reliable and extremely accurate.
I wound up selling/trading both as they both had poor triggers. Nowhere near as bad as the m&p triggers, but not smooth in DA like my 3rd gen 45 triggers. Long pull with stacking in DA. SA trigger was fine. Very crisp. Made me understand why some USP owners carry them cocked and locked.
I went to an HK armorer/gunsmith in Asheville NC before trading the last USP 45 compact. He tried the trigger and opined that there was really nothing he could do to improve it.
In contrast, I have a 96 vintage HK USP 45 full size that has a fairly nice trigger pull, for a tupperware gun.
The HK pistols do not compare to those m&p guns in any form or fashion, IMO. Apples and cheaply made ugly oranges with droopy dustcovers IMO. HK USP's are the only plastic guns I own. Great firearms. Very well made and reliable.
You should see if you can rent a USP 45 compact to try at a local range before buying. Good luck! Hope this helps. Regards 18DAI
I own a USP and a tac 45 which I run with a suppressor. I have a 30 yr background with HK products, and have been thru their armorer school and a couple of their instructor schools.
Their pistols are among the best available IMO.....the HK platforms are considered by many in the spec op's / tactical community to be "the gold standard". I have an extensive background with Glocks, Sigs, 2/3rd gen Smith's & Berrettas, but I cannot make the comparison with the M&P as I have no experience with them.
I have over 10k rds thru the USP and the tactical 45 respectively, and have had no issues with them whatsoever. I have also instructed the HK as an instructor when I was "on the job". HK products are pricey and they are "proud" of their parts & mag's, the HK pistol IMO is one of the "best of breed".
I highly recommend them.
Last edited by loc n load; 03-14-2014 at 02:29 PM.
I've got a full size USP 45, one of the stainless steel versions. I bought it used because it was set up for a lefty. It's been 100% reliable since I bought it and would probably be the one pistol I would choose in a SHTF situation.
I currently own an HK USP45 but have owned two USP45Cs, another USP45, USP40, and a USP45 Expert. All but the expert have less-than-ideal triggers, but definitely useable. The only malfunctions I experienced were when shooting lead-free ammo (USPs seem to hate the lead-free stuff) and I hit the large slide-release/stop a couple times while shooting with the Rogers/Surefire flashlight shooting technique...so user-induced.
The USP45s (both then and now) are the most accurate duty guns I own. That said, the ergonomics leave a bit to be desired and the HK45 series (and P30 in 9mm) have a much better "feel" to me. On the other hand, there is something about that big, blocky USP that means business.
I liked the compacts and carried them when I carried the full-size as a duty gun...But I found the 4513TSW much easier to carry, more comfortable and I was only giving up one round. I now mainly carry an M&P9C and occasionally a CS9.
My only real experience with the M&P is in the 9mm versions, so I can't really comment on the .45 but I will say that they are different enough that I'm happy to have my M&Ps and I'm happy to have my USP.
I sold my M&P 45 to get the HK45C but by that time the HK was sold.
Thy have a bunch of different trigger options so some you'd like others not so much. But overall the HK is heads above the M&P. The one problem is mag prices! The 45s are up there. ... $50+.
I can compare the M&P 40 to the USP/P2000 40. The M&P felt like a cheap water pistol compared to the HK.
I'm looking at the V1 configuration. Here in CA I think that is my only option for a new USP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI
You should see if you can rent a USP 45 compact to try at a local range before buying. Good luck! Hope this helps. Regards 18DAI
I have handled a USP with the LEM trigger and fired a 9mm full sized version quite a bit.
I'll admit that I'm not a fan of DA/SA guns, but the LEM option is really nice. It's kind of like a double action gun with a single action feel. If I were to buy a USP I'd probably upgrade it to the LEM.
I consider the H&K USP series to be some of the most reliable handguns in the world. The controls mimic those of the 1911 pistols, so my motor memory can be applied. They are easy to field strip, and very accurate. I own these three. The USP standard .45 is my house gun and I would rely on it for my life.
I was first alerted to these guns by Richard Marcinko, former SEAL team 6 leader, who in his writings praised the USP highly for extreme duty use.
Like SoCalDep I went with a 4513TSW as my off duty carry gun. I prefer the pre rail 4513TSW to ALL the handguns mentioned in this thread.
OP there is a nice 4513TSW for sale in the classifieds here. Regards 18DAI
I'm sure you like your 4513 just fine, but it's not like the USP. If I'm not mistaken, it's a DAO gun. I wouldn't want one of those unless it had the LEM style trigger. If you haven't tried a gun with the LEM in it, you don't know what you're missing.
EDIT: Nope, it's a DA/SA, my bad. Still, it can't be carried in condition 1.
I have both an HK45 and the HK45c. They are real good guns. I like my 3rd Gen Smiths but I'd rate the HK's slightly more reliable. They are easy to maintain and field strip and have good accuracy. My only complaint is the triggers which leave a little to be desired (at least to my hands). They are shootable enough but the combination of trigger flex from the plastic triggers and the long reset make them less than the uber-guns they are sometimes made out to be. I find them very accurate when shot deliberately but hard to shoot accurately at speed. It goes back to that trigger thing. IMHO the Smith DA triggers are better than the DA HK trigger. To be fair, mine are DA/SA and not LEM. Perhaps my opinion would change if mine were LEM rather than DA/SA.
To summarize, they are really good guns that fall just short of great due to mediocre DA/SA triggers. Your mileage may very.
I own one and it is difficult to describe. The closest I can come is it is a 3rd gen smith on steroids. The quality, fit, finishing and accuracy rival my PC pieces. For me my usp compacts are my favorite most accurate out of the box weapons that I bet my life on daily as they are my carry and bedside choices to compliment my smith revolvers. Which trigger configuration are you looking at? I started my HK with the traditional da/sa but have a couple of the lem triggers and love those as well.
Can you describe the LEM trigger for me? I am kinda confused as to how it feels.
I also had an HK P2000SK V2 9mm at one time and it had the LEM trigger. It's a cross between a DAO and SA...As wacky as that sounds.
The pull starts from hammer-down position...The hammer isn't actually connected to the hammer spring at this point (or something like that) so the only real resistance to the trigger pull is the trigger return spring and possibly some light input from the hammer itself - The light pull occurs all the way back until the hammer is in a pretty-much cocked position, and then it's a seven or so pound short (but if I remember correctly grittyish) trigger press. Think REALLY long takeup and single-action press. To reset, the trigger moves forward more than pretty much any single action, M&P, or Glock I've used - the hammer starts to go forward (it remains cocked when you hold the trigger to the rear without firing) but once reset it hit, you can bring the hammer right back to the "wall of resistance" or breaking point. It's a nice compromise but to my recollection it was definitely a compromise and I much prefer other consistent trigger pulls such as the M&P and most especially the Glock. Of course, nothing compares to a good single action.
Can you describe the LEM trigger for me? I am kinda confused as to how it feels.
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The first pull on a fresh magazine is longer pull than the rest and has a little more resistance due to the gun being in an uncooked position. On my light lem version that first pull is about 7.5 lbs. After the first round the slide puts the hammer into the partially cocked position with a short reset. Mine is about 5.5mm. The trigger pull drops to 4.5 lbs on my version for all remaining shots. It is very similar to a glock but smoother IMO and without the trigger safety. My p30 also has double strike capability just like a revolver . This is probably a horrible description but it is hard to explain.
SoCalDep did a decent job of describing the LEM. Here is a video of the same thing. It's not real good, but it does describe the LEM:
I really want one of these guns, but it's money I don't need to spend. Someone talk me out of it.
Sorry didn't watch the video but I have a USP 9 w/LEM trigger, a USP 40 without but with the right side safety/decocker and a P2000 40 with its version of the LEM.
The USP 40 takes a bit of getting used to as I mainly shoot striker fired guns. On the first 2 DA pulls my shots were a bit high and right compared to the SA shots. But after that I got the feel for the DA and it was all good. The USP 9 LEM feels like a long SA pull. Very light but long (er). The P2000 is probably the best overall. Holds 1 less than the usp 40, smaller, fully ambi, and has a different spring or mechanism or something but it absorbs recoil like nothing else in 40 I've ever shot. Just slightly more felt recoil then a 9.
Mags for the 45 are NOT CHEAP!
If you really need the money don't bother but if you can spare some it's an excellent pistol
I don't have any experience with the M&P semi autos.
I do have 2 HKs and they are excellent pistols that are extremely accurate (even with a so-so triggger) reliable and durable.
One is the full size USP 40 cal. and the other is the USP CT 45acp, with a CCF suppressor.
I don't find them hard to carry concealed with good holsters and belts.
Comparing the HK USP series to the M&P is more like comparing a VW Beetle to a 5 or 7 series BMW! Sure the Bug will get you there but the Beemer will do with a lot more style, reliability and quality!
I've had two P30s a P2000, two USP9, and two USP.45s, none ever jammed, were match accurate, easy to maintain, and yeah the finish is about damned near impervious to anything!
The DA trigger can be a problem (a year ago a batch of 45Cs was returned to HK in Sterling by NSW for having unacceptable trigger pulls!), but you do have the cocked n locked option as well as LEM. Most of my USPs (all full size) had decent DA triggers, my current USP .45 is outstanding in that department and it DOB is 1994.
When you buy a USP your getting a piece actually designed for special operations/military use, and piece rated for +P ammo, over engineered, hell even HK doesn't recommend its first tear down till you hit 25,000 rounds! The USP I'd a gentle kicker in all of its calibers, and will shoot right alongside those 15-3,000 dollar custom jobs, and with less drama or problems
H&K said it best in their old sales spiel:"In a World of Compromise...Some Don't." As for the USP Compacts, the same apply, and the USP series seem to be better than the newer P series. And yeah these are "Premium" weapons!
Dale
__________________
"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"
Last edited by Badkarma 1; 03-15-2014 at 01:10 PM.
Owned a USP compact 45 back in the late 90's....external hammer with the luxury of cocked and locked/ or decocked w/ manual safety on or off....recoil not bad, came back on target for quick followups and like all USP's, very rugged and accurate...great weapon even though I traded it off for a heavy barrel Armalite .223....
I carry my USPs with a chambered round with the hammer cocked and the frame safety/decocker engaged to take advantage of a shorter and somewhat cleaner trigger release. I am also a Colt collector and I don't carry non Series 80s Mod O pistols in condition 1.
However, the HK has 90 years of hindsight to design a pistol that is safe and drop proof with a hammer cocked back and the safety engaged. I don't trust older Mod O pistols using that carry mode.
I know many people carry their M1911s and Govt. Models that way and have never dropped them or have dropped them and the guns did not discharge, but I will not be swayed. Save your breath
HKs are just as much a premium quality gun as any Wilson, etal, except they have plastic frames and cost about 66% less than those fine Govt. Model pattern guns.
I carry my USPs with a chambered round with the hammer cocked and the frame safety/decocker engaged to take advantage of a shorter and somewhat cleaner trigger release. I am also a Colt collector and I don't carry non Series 80s Mod O pistols in condition 1.
However, the HK has 90 years of hindsight to design a pistol that is safe and drop proof with a hammer cocked back and the safety engaged. I don't trust older Mod O pistols using that carry mode.
I know many people carry their M1911s and Govt. Models that way and have never dropped them or have dropped them and the guns did not discharge, but I will not be swayed. Save your breath
HKs are just as much a premium quality gun as any Wilson, etal, except they have plastic frames and cost about 66% less than those fine Govt. Model pattern guns.
HKs are just as much a premium quality gun as any Wilson, etal, except they have plastic frames and cost about 66% less than those fine Govt. Model pattern guns.
While I may not agree that any polymer gun is as much a premium gun as a Wilson or Brown, I think they can be every bit as reliable.
I made the mistake of going to the gun store today and handling one again. Man, it was really hard getting out of there without buying it. I think I have a source that will save me about $200 on a new one. I also may have a line on a used 9mm compact which would be fine too.
For reliability they are more so than Wilson or Bear. May not have the looks but they were built with military and paramilitary use in mind. As Badkarma said, they don't recommend a tear down till 25k rounds. When does any 1911 say that? There are no parts to fit, no "cheap" aftermarket parts.
It's well thought out and we'll built. One of their torture tests was to plug the barrel with a round, shoot that round out and still be in good shape and retain battle accuracy and functionality. They are not A tool, they are THE tool.
I picked up my first H&K today. It's a USP Compact 9mm. It was used, but I just finished examining it closely and if it was fired, it was not fired much. It came with 4 mags which is a great bonus in and of itself considering how much these mags cost.
I've been testing the trigger and action. Cycling snap caps through it. I must say, this thing is smooth. The checkering on the grip and back strap seem a little sharp. Only firing will tell if it's a problem, but I don't think it will be.
I'm really blown away with this gun.
I haven't fired it yet, but, I may have found the perfect handgun with this one.
I have the Full size USP9 variant 7 DAO but don't own a M&P USP is reliable & accurate with the right ammo it is fairly finicky about ammo but totally reliable with the Federal Hydra Shocks.
I owned a USPc .45 that I traded in for my second M&P. it was a V1, gun was built like a tank, dead accurate, never a hiccup and will probably last much longer than an M&P with less maintenance.
The only reason I sold it, I could never get used to the DA/SA trigger like I could striker fired. Shooting times and accuracy (the way I shot the gun, not it's inherent accuracy) suffered. Thought about LEM, but it always seemed like a band aid fix trying to make a DA/SA striker fired like but not quite.
If H&K does come out with their long rumored striker fired line, assuming decent trigger I'll become an instant fan boy as their guns are built to last and built well.
Congrats Rastoff. Does the USP compact have the option of the LEM?
All the USPs have the potential to be converted to the LEM trigger.
Mine came as a V1; control lever on the left, safety/decocker. I converted it to a V2; control lever on the right, safety/decocker.
I may upgrade it to a LEM, but I'm not sure yet. I fired it 99 times today (had one buggered round from the manufacturer). It sure is a sweet shooter. I had trouble using it DA/SA. The different trigger pulls throw me off. Also, I'm used to a 1911 so, even in SA only, the trigger was not as fast for me as I'm used to. Still, with a little practice, I think I could shoot it as well as my 1911.
I've owned one for about 5 years. It's been very reliable, seems accurate (I'm not that great of a shooter to be able to tell if it's any more accurate than my M&P) and the ergonomics are excellent. The trigger on the USP is crisp and breaks cleanly in SA. The DA pull is long but I don't find the stacking to be a problem. Maintenance is easy - disassembly and cleaning is a snap. The only downsides are the cost and especially the cost for extra mags ($60+ when you can find them).
I went into my LGS lately looking at DA/SA decocker pistols. They clerk showed me a couple SIG's and HK's. I liked both handling wise but I thought the trigger on the SIG's felt a little smoother in both SA and DA mode. I didn't try a LEM trigger though. I might have to go back and see if they have one in stock to try. Rostoff, did you try any DA/SA SIG's by any chance or were you just looking for HK's? I so want to give the CZ another look too. I kind of like the idea of a DA/SA decocker model for carry purposes.
Rastoff, did you try any DA/SA SIG's by any chance or were you just looking for HK's?
I did not look at any SIG DA/SA guns this time around, but I have fired many of them.
Personally, I have a beef with the SIG PXXX series of guns. It seems that SIG Sauer believes the entire world is right handed. Not only that, but that those right handed shooters won't ever need to manipulate their guns with their support hand. Let me explain...
Here is a pic of the new P227:
Nice gun right? Only if you shoot with your right hand. Notice where the decocking lever is; on the left. Then notice the position of the slide stop; on the left, far toward the back. I can work the decocker with my index finger, but I can't operate the slide stop at all with my left hand.
Here is a pic of the right side:
Nothing at all on this side.
So, because I'm a lefty, no SIGs for me. Don't get me wrong, they make super reliable and durable guns. They're just lacking in the control department.
Another reason I wanted the USP is the unique nature of the control lever. As far as I know, the H&K USP is the only DA/SA gun on the market that can be carried in condition 1; round chambered, hammer cocked, safety on. This means that if you want, it can be used like a SA gun all the time.
Or, it can be decocked and carried in condition 2; round chambered, hammer down safety off. This requires the long DA pull first and every subsequent shot is SA. I don't like this myself, but I know several guys (they all have SIGs) that have no trouble with the DA pull first followed by SA pull. While at a training school my friend with his SIG was the only one who shot better than I did. I couldn't believe just how fast and accurate he was with that DA first pull.
That makes perfect sense. You ever give the CZ a try? I think they are ambidextrous. They are suppose to be uber accurate with the slide inside the frame layout. I shot one once and it had a funky trigger and I didn't care for it, but it was a rental. I'm curious what you thought of them. I was thinking of a Rami BD myself for a possible carry gun. I going to make it a point to try a HK with a LEM trigger next time I go to the LGS.
I have owned the HK usp compact the p2000 the full size USP 45 all were good.Triggers suck . The MP or Glock line will do the same job . I never see anyone with HK . Also hear their service is not good when people call in . They are good to go I looked at a HK compact on Sat for 900 new with night sights LEM trigger , Took home S/W compact MP 45
So far I've only fired the 99 rounds though it I posted about before.
How does it compare to the M&P? That's a good question and worthy of some discussion.
The frame/grip design of the M&P is superior. This is probably due to the difference between hammer and striker guns. The frame/grip design of the M&P allows the shooter to get their hand higher in the grip. This lowers the bore which allows better recoil control. The USP has the bore a little higher and therefore, has a shade more muzzle flip. I find this to be almost exactly the same as comparing the 1911 to the M&P.
The M&P has fewer parts and is a slightly simpler design. This makes for fewer potential points of failure.
Those two things are extremely significant to the way a gun shoots and its potential reliability. They cannot be dismissed lightly.
In every other aspect the USP is better.
The trigger is very good in stock configuration. The DA pull is specd at 51 Newtons (~12lbs). My trigger pull gauge maxed out when measuring it so, I believe it's a little more than 12lbs. The SA pull measured an average of 4 lbs 12oz with less than .5oz variation. That's a little heavier, but just as consistent as my Ed Brown. The M&P by contrast, varies as much as 4oz.
The slide stop on the USP is more positive. The shape and location, while only on the left side, makes it very easy to operate. As a lefty I appreciate the ambi nature of the slide stop. I just find the H&K better.
The mag catch/release is different. It's a lever rather than a button. It is ambidextrous. Even though it's a lever, I find it no different than the button. I seem to lose no speed or fumble with the control. I like that it can be operated easily with either hand, but so can the M&P or any gun for that matter.
The grip length of the USP Compact is perfect for me. I find it to fit my hand almost exactly. This is obviously subjective, but I think the average user would agree that it is a decent size.
The USP also has the benefit of the control lever. Rather than just a safety, this lever operates the safety and acts as a decocker. So, the user has the choice of carrying the gun in condition 2 (round chambered, hammer down) and using it with a DA pull for the first round, or it can be carried in condition 1 (hammer cocked, safety on). As far as I know, H&K is the only company making a gun like this. Actually, the gun can be safely carried in condition 0 (which is how an M&P is carried, but we can discuss that later) because there is also a firing pin block.
Another thing about the USP is that it is user configurable to any one of 10 trigger variants. They can be seen here: Heckler & Koch - USA
Then there is the LEM trigger. It's a double action only trigger that has to be felt to be believed. Mine doesn't have that, but I may add it later.
The USP also has a built in recoil reduction mechanism. It works OK, but seems to recoil as much as any 9mm I've fired.
So, there it is. My quick and dirty comparison. I find the USP to be a better gun, but it will also cost you ~$300-$400 more when buying new.
Hey Rastoff....Welcome to the REAL Dark Side!
Dale
PS: If you want ergonomic perfection, try a P30! Trust me, once you wrap your hand around it you won't want to let go!
__________________
"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"
Last edited by Badkarma 1; 04-10-2014 at 10:40 PM.
HK really knows how to build good reliable semi-auto pistols, and they will shoot accurately also - almost like a target pistol, yet they still run full of mud, if necessary.
The HK has a different operating system than the M&P, however. The HK is hammer fired, and the control lever can have different functions (safety only, safety and decocker, or decocker only, I think), and it can be moved to the other side by a factory trained armorer. The USP Compact is a really nice set-up when equipped with the LEM trigger system, which is a light DAO system.
The HK is several hundred dollars more than the standard M&P, but it is likely in a different class also. They are completely reliable, their magazines are really tough (and expensive), and they are accurate.
HK builds really good combat weapons, many of which will outshoot purpose-built target pistols, and they will do so even if full of mud or debris, or if you just popped up from underwater and need to fire immediately. This latter is admittedly not likely to be needed by any of us, but it is nice to know the pistol is capable of it.
A USP45c is listed for sale in my area, at a very fair price. Having never seen one, I started searching for some reviews. Nice to read what you folks thought about it. Don't think I'm gonna "pull the trigger" on it.
Anyone familiar with or own a H&K USP 45c?
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