Back when the Shield came out I decided to pick one up for concealed carry and since I already owned a M&P .40 I thought it would be easy to learn. I could never shoot that .40 or any of my tupperware guns as good as I could a good ol 4 inch k frame. Im sure thats no suprise for some of you.

Ive put around 2000 rounds through the shield since I got it almost two years ago, and to be honest my accuracy has really not gotten any better. You know the usual low and left scenario etc. The gun feels great in my hand and I love everything about itexcept for the trigger pull. Its god awful and I think thats whats effecting my accuracy.

Yesterday at my backyard range I finally decided to do a little test with three different firearms. All smiths of course. id run about 50 rounds at 21ft through each gun and give myself plenty of time to extinguish any eye/arm fatigue. The three guns I chose were the shield 9mm which Ive shot alot, a model 39 9mm which I just picked up last week for $315, and a model 15 .38 special which ive put a couple hundred rounds through. I wanted to use guns I was experienced with and 1 i was not.

I figured id start with the shield since I was fresh and ready and always shoot the first 25 rounds of any shooting session the best. After two mags I was disgusted and put it aside. As for the other two you can see the results. Am I just not cut out for striker fired autos? Or are older guns just higher quality and more precision instruments? I dont know and its been two years and I still cant figure it out. Thoughts?

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Probably the trigger weight throwing you off with Shield. The short sight radius also doesn't help. The 39 and the 15 are going to have a much light trigger pull if you are shooting SA.

Your Shield groups at 7 yards look about the same as mine the first couple of times I took it to the range. I bought some snap caps and dry fired the heck out of it, concentrating on not letting the sights move when I pull the trigger.

There was a tremendous improvement the next time I took it out. At 7 yards, I can shoot 2-3 inch groups now. At 15 yards, everything is on a paper plate size target.

And i can actually hit the target 50% of the time at 25 yards.

I shot the revolver in double action just for that reason. I have shot the shield better than I did yesterday but not by alot. Im just so frustrated I want to give up on it

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Do you have one with the MA trigger?

Not that I'm aware of. I live in Maine

Lightweight Subcompacts aren't for everyone.
Each platform has its slight differences and switching platforms sometimes means starting from 'Square One', as if you've never shot before in your life. The Shield is smaller and lighter than your other handguns and weight does play a factor in shooting it.

If the trigger is what's getting you, snap caps will definitely help.
Downloading one of the various 'Shooting Wheel' troubleshooting targets and shooting at it @ 10'/3yds may also help you figure out what's going on.
Many times, shooting low can be from anticipating the recoil, or tightening you fingers during trigger pull (not isolating your trigger finger).
Shooting left may only need an adjustment of your finger on the trigger. Some do well with 'Center Pad' placement, while others need to use the crease of their 1st knuckle. Experiment to see which placement allows you to pull the trigger straight back, without your hand twisting, or flexing.

If you've already tried all this and it still doesn't render good results, maybe the Shield just isn't your cup of tea (or mug of beer)

During 44 years of using guns as part of my employment as well as a lot of recreational shooting, it's been my experience that poor accuracy resulted first from ****** technique on my part, faulty ammo, and, rarely, a gun with a problem. Gun problems were always limited to that specific serial number.
I had an ammo issue when a friend gave me box of zinc bullets I loaded into 9mm and .45ACP. At 10-12 meters the group was ONE METER! No kidding. I was hitting targets adjacent to the one I was aiming at! The problem was wild differences in bullet weight and diameter. They just sort of rattled down the barrel and took flight.
I also found that I adapt to some guns better than others. The Colt Government Model (first one was in Vietnam) has always worked well for me. Starting in the '80s I had an employer who issued Beretta 92s and various Sigs in 9mm.
I did very well with them all. I had not used any 1911-pattern pistol for several years when I then had need/opportunity to pick one up. It felt like a natural extension of my arm; An old friend I just seemed to understand.

Caliber makes a difference for me, too. I've never liked .40S&W and always shot it barely acceptably in any gun. I thought it rather funny that the .40S&W gun I was most accurate with was a Star Eibar Firestar 40, a chunky 415-gram (14+5/8 oz) 1911-pattern gun with an 8.6cm (3+3/8") barrel! In the mid-'90s I taught a woman to shoot who was in desperate need of being able to defend herself. A slim, drop-dead gorgeous blond (and close friend of my wife!), she chose a Sig 229/.40S&W as her gun. Made me feel like a wimp.

As to technique, I think I've seen about everything. In the early '70s I was issued a Walther PPK/9mm Kurz. I hated it, but with some training became acceptably proficient with it. Then, a seasoned shooter stepped up and, probably poisoned by too many James Bond movies, stuck it out in front of him with one hand and blasted off seven rounds as fast as he could pull the trigger. He missed. The entire target. At 2.5 meters.

One of my closest friends from USAF flight training and Vietnam tours was the son of a famous colonel in the Strategic Air Command. When the father was a young lieutenant he was assigned to the Canal Zone (Panama). One of his first duties was to do the annual qualification testing of the base troops.
The story goes that a sergeant with strips all the way up his sleeve reported as ordered showing some contempt for the young lieutenant "in charge." (Having served with some of those guys, I understand!)
He grudgingly took the revolver, stepped up to the line and blazed away, hitting the target only a couple times. He tossed the gun on a table saying the damned things weren't accurate anyway.
The young lieutenant took the revolver, reloaded it, turned his back to the target, bent over and fired between his legs, all bulls-eyes.
He turned back to the sergeant and said "Works OK for me. Give it another try." He was, unbeknownst to the sergeant, a crack shot, something he demonstrated again when in his '80s and a burglar, gun in hand, attempted to burgle his house while he and his wife were in bed. The colonel chased the guy through the neighborhood, firing one round of .357Mag into the pavement just in front of the fleeing felon who wisely stopped, dropped, and awaited his fate.

In my personal experience, I was about to give up on the .44 Mag, unwilling to tolerate the recoil. I was military trained to clamp down on the gun and totally control it. OUCH! It didn't help that the first one I tried spit lead from the cylinder/barrel gap. Not until I read a couple articles specifically addressing shooting hard-recoiling guns did I warm up to the caliber.

I just finished three months recovering from an injury to my right hand - my "strong" hand. With a splint on an offending finger I couldn't control a handgun (I actually BENT the splint!) very well until I picked up an old friend with my left hand: A veteran Series 70 Colt Government model I bought new in 1972. My only issue was dealing with the left-side-only thumb safety. So, confidence newly inspired, I picked up my S&W 1911Sc with the ambi safety and did fine.

So, accuracy trouble? First look at yourself as the problem. Shoot from a bench rest to minimize your possible errors. Have another shooter familiar with the gun shoot it.
Second, ammo. Even established manufacturers rarely make significant mistakes, but you never know, and handloads always warrant scruitiny.
Only after eliminating those, or any blindingly obvious gun problem, check out the gun. I bought a S&W Performance Center 327 TRR8. I was proudly showing it to our LE son. He grabbed it by the barrel and WIGGLED IT IN THE FRAME! Back to S&W. They destroyed it and gave me another. I've wondered how it would have shot, but am GLAD I didn't try it! I also "came into" a Colt GM in the mid-70s. I have no idea where the first three bullets went, but they were nowhere near the target. A look in the barrel told the tale. The rifling was GONE! New barrel and bushing and it was back in business.

These are great stories. I know that it is me with the problem not the gun or ammunition. My point here is im sure there are other people like me that just cant fire a striker fire gun proficiently. Although im no expert markmsman i feel confident with every firarm I pickup that has a hammer. I think of it like this when people write, "get snap caps" "dryfire" and post picures of that trigger control chart, if a new car came out that needed hours and hours of training to drive would I buy one when any older one I can get right in and drive, the answer is no, I wouldn't. I know its a small percentage of people that have this problem and I guess my question is, why the change? Why veer away from platforms that worked perfectly to one that some people are going to have to adapt and train to use?

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Okay... Going with the car analogy, I liken it to someone who only learned to drive automatics and hopping into a standard shift car/truck. Hardly anyone I know who hopped into an old VW Bug, MGB, TR6 standard shift the very 1st time and mastered the clutch.
Some say 'Never Again' while others say 'Give me time... I can get this'.

I know plenty of wheel gun guys who've tried my Striker Fires and said 'Nice, but No Thanks' and I know lots of people who are determined to learn a new platform ....just because they can.
It's a choice... Not a mandate.
This is why I always Rent/Borrow/Somehow try a platform (new gun) before buying... Just like test driving a car/truck. Finding out I don't like it AFTER buying it is no longer an option.

I look at my guns like i do my pool cues.

I've got a $400 pool cue that shoots better than some of my $5k pool cues. But thats probably because i dont bring my $5k pool cue with me everywhere and shoot with it 99% of the time like i do my little $400 pool cue.

You see i have some guns and some pool cues that rarely see the light of day. And well thats because in the end they are better as an investment than what they are to shoot with all the time (or shoot any at all). In the end, its always the one that i shoot with most of the time that i shoot better with.

My Shield is now far more accurate than my favorite 1911. But once again, i dont spend my time with that 1911 much anymore as i use to.

Smitty 357: A $400 pool cue. That I can understand. Top of the line. Lifetime purchase. But a $5000 cue??? That thing had better come with a free weekend with Heather Locklear for that price..............

For all you readers under age 40, substitute the name Jennifer, Megan, Milo, Kristen, Kiera, etc

The trigger on my 9mm Shield was horrible also. Some Shield owners at the club dry fired mine and gave me that "ewwww" look. It was hard I tell you. I tried their Shields and the triggers were all better. One guy told me his had 500 rounds through it before it was acceptable (it did feel good). I installed an APEX hard sear in mine and instantly shot more accurately. Not great mind you but much improved and closer to the target center. Just a thought. Good luck!

If I were the OP, the first things I would try changing, would be to lose the finger extension on the flush mags and ignore the extended mags for a while. The Shield is unique in that the circumference of the mag well is so much less than most everything else a person typically shoots, that unless you have smallish hands (I wear an XL glove), you really are better able to establish a properly indexed grip if you treat the gun as a two finger grip gun. Call me crazy, but I think it is worth investigating for those having trouble mastering this gun. I would do this before throwing money at Apex parts too, as the trigger does get smoother as the round count increases. You can also do much to clean up the stock parts, and if handy at all, may want to consider [just the polishing steps of] this well-respected DIY gunsmithing guide: http://www.burwellguns.com/misc/M&Ptriggerjob.pdf

I know this will likely sound counter-intuitive to many reading this, but adding the pinky in to your master grip may prevent you from getting a firm enough grip with your middle and ring fingers, and may be even be causing you to move away from a straight line grip (clocking). The pinky is your strongest finger and (obviously) shorter too, which give it greater leverage. When the pinky fully locks in tightly around a Shield, it works to prevent the middle and ring fingers from doing the same. The smaller mag well circumference plays in to allowing the pinky to exert greater gripping dominance, if you use the extended mags or add a finger extension.

Long winded way of saying, try only using flush mags and paying much closer attention to getting your forearm inline with the bore axis (it very easy to come too far around). Shooting the Shield with the extended mags or finger extensions does feel more natural for most, but it also may work against greater shooting precision. I initially drew the parallel with shooting compact double stacks (both plastic and metal) and the improvement I found with extended mags and finger extensions, and thought it was logical to do the same with the Shield. What I didn't consider, was that the greater mag well circumference with those guns really does make it a very different equation. My experience with a 9mm Shield has been that greater precision and shot consistency didn't happen for me until I started shooting it with flush mags and just two fingers doing the gripping.

The pinky extension has only been on for a month or so. Made no difference. My best friend was at my house last night and he works at lgs and he said my trigger was horrible compared to others he's dry fired

I shoot automatics better than revolvers and I shoot thick grip guns better than thin gripped and striker better than DA/SA. faster as well. Does that mean that new guns are actually better made? No. It's just what fits me better and what I'm used to. At 21ft using my G21 I can shoot circles around my 4506 (if I'm shooting against myself). I'm not bad with the 4506 but much better with the G21.

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So is it settled that I just stink with striker fired guns and should just give up?

A striker trigger certainly takes some warming up to. There are inexpensive aftermarket fixes.

The polymer framed guns don't shoot as smooth for me, either, but that opinion varies.

I can shoot my J frame about as well as anything else when I do my part. Some times you get along with a gun. Sometimes you don't.

I wouldn't go there just yet.

I personally have never fired the Shield or a standard M&P.
I just purchased a Pro Series M&P 9 with the 4.25 in barrell two weekends ago from a guy who only shot 15 rounds through it when he declared it a piece of junk.

The short story is I got a very nice M&P for $500 (with 4 factory mags). And he got money to buy a Glock.

My results were much different than his with the Pro. Beautiful trigger and reset. Laser accurate with 115 and 124 gr fmj's.

My first striker fired gun I purchased three years was a SW9VE.
Yes the worst gun S&W ever made according to the internet experts. Same deal. Guy couldn't hit a barn with it if he was standing inside it.

I have shot the Sigma in IDPA several times and won my division with it twice this year..

I have learned this about striker fired guns.
Don't anticipate the break on the trigger. Concentrate on smooth continious motion throughout your squeeze.

Regardless of trigger pull weight, practicing that smooth continious pull and keeping your grip solid, but not overly tight will probably help.

My new Pro Series will be headed out this month for IDPA matches. I think it will do just fine.

Get out there, settle in, and you will learn to make it work.

Results from the worst gun in the history of S&W: Note the target is only 6x10 inches at 7 yards

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Take your time..quickly.

The pinky extension was one suggestion. The other was a free way to improve the trigger. Might want to give that a shot. Please don't take this the wrong way (I am trying to help), but you may want to consider Indian in the equation here. The trigger can be improved, but honestly, I would be more focused on my shooting technique than the gun itself. Have you let someone that is a better shot than you try the gun? If they can shoot it, then maybe you can start focusing on getting better and stop obsessing about a "horrible" trigger being what makes the gun shoot poorly. Looking at the shooting wheel, it diagnoses your "usual low left" as "jerking" or "tightening fingers" problems. Like a shooting a J-frame, I find the smallness of the Shield requires a little extra adjusting to the gun, in order to shoot it well.

Maybe you've got the worst trigger every to ship with a Shield, or your sights need regulating at bit. Who knows. But having shot at least eight different Shields now, three which had Apex parts installed and internals massaged, my experience has been that the trigger from the factory is plenty serviceable as it ships. Jumping from bigger gun to revolver after shooting the Shield only adds to the confusion here. Slow down and concentrate on perfect practice would be my first suggestion. The second would be to watch someone like Hickok45 demonstrate what a stock gun can do: M&P Shield ( Chapter 2) - YouTube

I have a collection problem, so my ole lady says. She says that i dont know what I want to collect. Whether it be guns or pool cues (both are my passions). So i just chose to collect both.

Those expensive ones are custom cues made by some of the top cue makers of our time. My cue collection mostly consists of Tascarella cues. But i do have a few from other makers. Its just that those Tascarellas are like 1911's to me. I dont pass many of them up very often. Except my Tascarella collection isnt near as big as my 1911 collection.

Even experienced shooters can sometimes benefit from having an experienced instructor observe them using a new-to-them handgun, looking for subtle (but critical) problems that may exist, or a bad habit that a larger gun can often help mask or offset for a particular shooter.

I often use a small wooden clothespin, placed at different angles around a target cardboard back board, as an aiming spot. (This doesn't cause any problems at the outdoor range where I work/train.) I typically start shooting at it at 5-7 yds, looking to make called hits on the clothespin.

Placing the pin at different angles helps me check for small amounts of vertical or horizontal stringing that may be happening... and aiming/hitting the center of a pin placed at an angle (not simply horizontal or vertical) is hardest. Once I confirm POA/POI to my satisfaction, I'll try to take this exercise out to 10-12+ yds, to check for my trigger control & steady grip on any given day.

Now, this exercise can be a very humbling experience, but it can also show small deflections of the muzzle due to trigger jerk/pull, improper wrist alignment, flinching, etc.

One of the hardest times I've had was when doing some friendly competition with another instructor. It involved using a 442 from the training inventory, standard pressure 158gr LRN ammo and making called hits on 5 wooden clothespins spaced around the outside of the target back board at different positions & angles 'around the clock'. I got really lucky and made 5-for-5 hits, cold ... and wasn't fooling myself that I could probably do it twice in a row. I won that friendly wager, though.

Moral to the story? Sometimes aiming small ... and using follow-through ... lets you discover small improvements that may be needed, especially when trying to adjust yourself to using a new gun, with a new trigger reach, grip girth/angle and different trigger.

Try using a HK compact with a LEM trigger on the heavy end of things, sometime. It'll teach you patience, if nothing else.

Just some thoughts.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

To check and see if you have a MA compliant Shield, here are the SKU#'s to look for, if yours has these sku's, then you have the 10.5 lb + trigger.

Shield .40 MA sku 180050
Shield 9mm MA sku 180051

California compliant sku's with 6.5 lb trigger
Shield .40 CA sku 187020
Shield 9mm CA sku 187021

Regular Shield sku's with 6.5 lb trigger
Shield .40 sku 180020
Shield 9mm sku 180021

The sku number can be found on the side of your Shield box

Hope this helps.

Anyone that can shoot that good with metal should "recycle the plastic" in my view.

Lightweight sub compacts can cause a lot of issues with flinching. Yeah, I said it, you are probably Flinching. Don't care how many years you've been shooting, we all tend to "grow a flinch when shooting centerfire handguns and the lighter/more powerful they are the faster we "grow" that Flinch.

I went shooting yesterday and when I started out with some 357 Magnum hand loads (140 gn XTP's at 1350 fps) I was driving freaking nails with it at 30 feet. The very first shot was a near perfect center hit in the red dot in a shoot-n-c sticker just 1/8" low. The following 13 rounds were all nearly as perfect. However, by the end of the 3rd cylinder every shot was below the 7 inch sticker. Yeah, all it took was about 15-16 rounds to grow a flinch. My excuse is that these are rather hot loads that do have a bit of a punch. I probably should have called it a day at that point but I followed up by putting in some practice time with my Sig P239, which I normally shoot very well with. Shot lousy with the P239 and I am certain it was because I was still flinching.

Note, at 38 ounces my 620 certainly doesn't qualify as a "featherweight" but with a rather powerful 357 Magnum it does have enough kick to cause most shooters to grow a flinch. With a 9mm Shield I would expect that after too many rounds downrange even a buffalo would start flinching. Point is you may want to limit your round count with the Shield. If you see your accuracy falling off call it a day.

Second tip is to slow down a bit. By doing that you may find that you can start to get a "feel" for that drive to flinch setting in. When that happens to me many times I can eliminate that flinch by concentrating on achieving a relaxed state when pressing the trigger. Call it Zen and the Art of Shooting.

Third tip. You have a double action revolver, use it properly to refine your trigger skills. This means that if you tend to stage your trigger in double action stop staging the trigger and practice using a single smooth trigger press. If you've lightened your trigger you may want to consider increasing the trigger pull to the 9.5 to 10 lbs. range to provide a better match to the trigger on your Shield. I got into shooting double action revolvers specifically to hone my skills with the DA trigger on my Sig and it did that for me. Also found out I really really like shooting revolvers.

Last tip is a bit last resort. That is that you may want to consider a trigger kit from Apex. I don't normally go in for custom tuning kits but by all accounts Apex knows what they are doing and it will probably improve your trigger a bunch. Just be aware that IMO a light trigger on a carry pistol with no real safety is something you have to be very very careful with. BTW, I do NOT regard a "safe trigger" as a safety feature, which is why I normally carry a Sig with a 10.5 lbs DA trigger.

Finally, as was pointed out by an old shooting instructor many years ago, really tiny groups are actually detrimental in shooting to defend yourself. The simple fact is that if you get bleeds going in BOTH lungs you'll usually stop an assailant faster than by putting in just one larger hole. While I've never had to apply that advice it made sense to me at the time and when practicing defense shooting I am not real critical about group size as long as the hits are "stoppers". Basically spread them out about 2 hands wide and 1 hand high is just fine.

That actually made me laugh out loud

So after reading a lot of your guys advice I decide I wouldn't give up and just had a another practice session, your not gonna believe what I'm about to tell you. The first two magazines I couldn't really group well but better than I did the other day. On the third mag specifically the third round I started pulling the trigger and bang! It went off easier than it had before, the next three mags grouped a fairly nice 3 inch group 1 inch left of bullseye. All I can't think of is there was a piece of dirt or lint caught somewhere making the trigger drag. now it feels like a totally different gun. So weird!

Very good to hear that today's session went better and that there seemd to literally be a breakthrough of some sort.

I have a rough time with short barrels and people like Hitchcok45 on Youtube make me sick. PING! PING! PING!

Too funny!!

Even funnier when you realize the 15" metal gong he was pinging with the Shield is 230 yards away! [Edit: distance was more like 80 yards - see post below] He made the same shot with a Glock 27! [Edit: Glock 27 shooting distance was 230 yards - video link posted below] Hickok45 always serves to remind it's the Indian...

I never realized that gong was that far away. Now, of course, I'm even more in awe of him!

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Lounge Lizard Extraordinaire

You and me both pal!

The Hickok45 gong isn`t 230yards away...As I recall it is something close to 100 yards...It's still a accomplishment...

Anyway Hickok45 is a shooter...that man can shoot especially considering his age...He's the man....

There was a video of him shooting 230 yards with a glock 23. I don't watch his shows but I did see that particular one

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I watched the Hickok45 Shield video again and compared the Shield episode to his Glock 27 episode, which is titled "Glock 27 at 230 yards" (see below). He talks about the 230 yard distance and it is clear to see that target was waaaayyyy further away. My bad. Apologies for posting the bad info. It may be more like 80 yards to THAT particular gong in the Shield video. IIRC, there is another episode where they do a tongue-in-cheek Q&A and someone asked how far away is the 80 yard gong, to which he replies "about 240 feet". [made me chuckle] That sounds about right to me. Whatever the actual distance may be, it is a heck of lot further than the typical 21' many consider the longest distance you would shoot a subcompact handgun like the Shield.

At any rate, the point remains about it being the Indian not the arrow. The man can pick up just about any stock gun and make it work for him. Revolver, tiny subcompact 9/40, shotgun or levergun; it really doesn't make any difference to Hickok45, he just finds a way to make the bullets hit where he intends.

Glock 27 at 230 yards - YouTube

My other favorite "Indian" is Jerry Miculek. He shot at and hit an 18"x24" target at a distance of 400 meters (he says 435 yards on video) [400 meters converts to 437 yards or 1,312 feet] with a 9mm M&P Core! A-phrickin'-mazing shooting! Lord almighty, that Jerry Miculek sure can shoot!

400 meter shot with an M&P 9mm pistol by champion shooter, Jerry Miculek! - YouTube

off topic a bit.... but there is no pool cue in the world worth 5k. unless it somehow can predict and adjust you stroke and guarantees you make 3 balls at once as well as embezzled with rare crystals from a cave on endor. 5k is like what 5-10 guns? or maybe it has a sniper riffle hidden inside

to me that just makes zero sense.
but hey... its your money

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NeedleFreaks Tattoo

Any way to tell if you don't have the box? Is there a cross-reference available to match Serial No. with SKU? Maybe just call Smith?

Read my last post

I've always liked the looks and feel of a cowboy gun. But never could shoot one worth a darn. I know a SA cowboy gun can be accurate. And like others have said, I figured it was the 'nut behind the trigger' that's the problem.
With striker fire firearms , Glock's & M&P's, I do fair. Shooting a S&W double action or a 1911 , I do pretty good with and is what I prefer to shoot. Guess that's why they make different types of firearms.

Could I get better with a cowboy gun or a plastic gun ? Maybe / probably. But with a couple S&W wheel guns and a couple good 1911's I figure I can cover most of the bases.