OK, I am a novice with the M&P (had it about 6 months, but this is only my second time at the range with it). Here's what happens - not every time, but about 5 times this session: I was loading it with 6 rounds of American Eagle 180 FMJ. I used 6 rounds because I wanted to bring the target back in and get an idea of where I was hitting. After the magazine emptied, the slide locked back, I ejected the magazine, reloaded with 6 more rounds, and then let the slide go forward. On 5 different occasions, everything seemed normal, but the trigger went full back and nothing happened. A round was chambered, and I ejected the mag, pulled the slide back and ejected the chambered round, put the round back in the mag, and then closed it. The round fired as advertised. So, I have eliminated the ammo. Why does the striker not fire? I've tried pulling the slide back from the locked position and releasing it, as well as just releasing it with the button, and had this happen both ways. What am I missing here?
In the meantime, I am back to my reliable 686 revolver.
Do you have a magazine disconnect? If so, you probably didn't have the mag seated all the way. You may chamber a round, but the gun won't fire. This appears to be much more of a problem with 10 round mags. Next time this happens check whether the mag is really seated before ejecting You may be surprised.
Pull the slide to the rear and release it, allowing it to carry fully forward. This strips a cartridge from the magazine and seats it in the chamber of the barrel.
Did you happen to hear the striker come forward, or was there complete silence as in a dead trigger?
I think I'm leaning towards post #4 if you have the disconnect.
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Originally Posted by HCA
No, I was careful to avoid that. At least twice, I just hit the slide release without touching the slide, and let it go forward.
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Originally Posted by gboling
It is not designed to load by releasing the slide release. The slide must be pulled all the way back and released.
It is not designed to load by releasing the slide release. The slide must be pulled all the way back and released.
The minor difference in slide travel length caused by chambering a round one way or the other should have absolutely nothing to do with the issue the OP has mentioned. This gun needs to go back to S&W.
Both my MPs (compacts, 9 and 40) will chamber a round slingshot or slide lock release. I prefer slingshot and that's how I train...
You said the gun is 6 months old. Is that 6 months old as in new gun, or is that a used gun (perhaps older gun) that is new to you for 6 months?
Reason I ask, older MP has a smaller sear plunger pin that is sometimes known to have a dead trigger....hence the reason for S&W to upgrade the plunger size and spring.
If the gun is 6 months old and "new"...that shouldn't be the issue then.
Pull the slide to the rear and release it, allowing it to carry fully forward. This strips a cartridge from the magazine and seats it in the chamber of the barrel.
Did you happen to hear the striker come forward, or was there complete silence as in a dead trigger?
I think I'm leaning towards post #4 if you have the disconnect.
I tried both ways, with the slide release as well as pulling the slide full back and release. Got the malfunction either way. Complete silence...but as I mentioned, it was intermittant. Most of the time everything functioned as advertised, sometimes not.
Do you have a magazine disconnect? If so, you probably didn't have the mag seated all the way. You may chamber a round, but the gun won't fire. This appears to be much more of a problem with 10 round mags. Next time this happens check whether the mag is really seated before ejecting You may be surprised.
Both my MPs (compacts, 9 and 40) will chamber a round slingshot or slide lock release. I prefer slingshot and that's how I train...
You said the gun is 6 months old. Is that 6 months old as in new gun, or is that a used gun (perhaps older gun) that is new to you for 6 months?
Reason I ask, older MP has a smaller sear plunger pin that is sometimes known to have a dead trigger....hence the reason for S&W to upgrade the plunger size and spring.
If the gun is 6 months old and "new"...that shouldn't be the issue then.
No, that is 6 months as in purchased new in December 2013.
Now, using that as a guide, take a look at part #32; trigger return spring. Check to see that it is not broken or not attached.
Next look closely at part #29: trigger bar. Look it over to see if there are any broken parts or jagged edges. I don't think this is the issue, but you never know.
Then look at the sear; part #28. Use a small tool to move it up and down. Does it move smoothly? Are there any nicks or notches in it?
These are just some things to look at. I'm going to go see if I can duplicate your problem.
Last fall I got a M&P 45c at a giveaway price. I didn't test fire it for 4 months. All OK with my 200 gr. reloads. I went to 230 gr. hydra-shocks and started getting identical failures. Got home and found that if I dropped the slide with the trigger pulled, the striker followed the slide all the way. On Rastoff's IPB, the problem was #29, the trigger bar that rides the slide was canted. A quick bend and everything was normal. The interaction between the slide rail, trigger bar, and sear is critical. You should let the factory fix it unless you have a lot of experience.
Aside: I am switching from carrying an Officer's ACP after 22 years because of back problems. The 45c weighs half of the ACP and I could swear that the recoil is reduced.
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I don't have Alzheimer's- My wife had me tested.
Yep, that sounds exactly like what happened. I did some internet searches on that issue, and I see that it is indeed an issue on some M&Ps. So, as someone else in this thread mentioned, it needs to go back to S&W. I'll be contacting them tomorrow to arrange to have it shipped back. In the meantime, I'll revert back to my faithful old 686+ snubby with 7 rounds of Hornady Critical Defense in .357 magnum. Might be old school, but it always goes BANG when I pull that trigger.
Well, it went off to S&W, received there on July 14th, received back today, so kudos to them for a quick turn around. I haven't had a chance to take it out to the range after repair, but plan to do so next week. However, I am a little concerned about what repairs were actually done. The repair order says only: Evaluate/Repair adjust trigger bar/clean chamber seat function test w/no issues. Sounds almost as if that was a polite way of saying we didn't find anything wrong. If this gun was excessively dirty, then maybe there might be something there, but (counting the 100 rounds during the last seesion), there had been less than 225 rounds through it since it was bought new in box in November 2013. I don't think the American Eagle ammo was that dirty. Any opinions on this? I guess maybe a good session on the range might restore my confidence in this gun, but right now, I am inclined to stay with my 686+ revolver for EDC.
Go shoot the cr*p out of it, then you will know for sure. And personally, I would try several brands of ammo. Not every auto eats every brand.
The dirtiest ammo I ever shot was that steel Tulammo and mine fired every time. It was all I could find at the time, I don't use it anymore but would if I had to. I use mostly WWB at the range but have shot many brands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCA
Well, it went off to S&W, received there on July 14th, received back today, so kudos to them for a quick turn around. I haven't had a chance to take it out to the range after repair, but plan to do so next week. However, I am a little concerned about what repairs were actually done. The repair order says only: Evaluate/Repair adjust trigger bar/clean chamber seat function test w/no issues. Sounds almost as if that was a polite way of saying we didn't find anything wrong. If this gun was excessively dirty, then maybe there might be something there, but (counting the 100 rounds during the last seesion), there had been less than 225 rounds through it since it was bought new in box in November 2013. I don't think the American Eagle ammo was that dirty. Any opinions on this? I guess maybe a good session on the range might restore my confidence in this gun, but right now, I am inclined to stay with my 686+ revolver for EDC.
The repair order says only: Evaluate/Repair adjust trigger bar/clean chamber seat function test w/no issues. Sounds almost as if that was a polite way of saying we didn't find anything wrong.
No, not a polite way of ignoring the problem. Adjusting the trigger bar is a significant correction. Let me explain.
Take a look at this pic:
The red arrow is pointing to the trigger bar loop, sometimes called the candy cane. It's this loop that fits under the sear. As the trigger bar moves backward, the loop presses on the sear pivoting it and releasing the striker. If that loop is not adjusted properly, it could keep the sear from moving up to catch the striker as the slide comes forward after firing.
If it were too open, that could prevent the loop from going back under the sear. Thus, the sear would be set, but the trigger would just ride along the side of it instead of under it. That would also give the results you had.
Another possibility could be with the bar itself. That little tab with the red paint on it is used to push the trigger bar to the right after the gun is fired. This causes the trigger bar loop to move out from under the sear allowing the sear to pop back up and catch the striker thus, resetting the sear. If that tab were bent to the right, or the trigger bar twisted, it might not move the trigger bar enough to allow the gun to reset.
Either of these things could be off just a tiny bit. That would allow the gun to operate most of the time. Then there could be the tiniest thing that happens differently which could allow the timing to be off and not reset the sear.
Here's a vid I made of how the trigger system works:
So, no, I don't think they blew you off. I think they really made an adjustment and the gun really is better. You won't know until you fire it though.
Rastoff, MANY thanks for the detailed response and video. I feel a little better now after getting a better idea of how it works. I guess the real proof will come at the range next week. I like this gun, and hope I can regain confidence in it. Thanks again!
The minor difference in slide travel length caused by chambering a round one way or the other should have absolutely nothing to do with the issue the OP has mentioned. This gun needs to go back to S&W.
Lmao. This is hilarious. Why design the gun with a slide release?
I agree the gun may need to go back. It needs to be thoroughly cleaned, lubed and then shot by someone else with different ammo.
What you failed to indicate was did you check the primer on the round that did not fire? The trigger may have released the striker, but you might have had a light hit. With hearing protection, you can't hear the striker release. Make it a point, when this happens, to pull the round and check the primer. If there was no indentation on the primer, then the striker did not impact the primer. However if there is a primer indentation, then it was a light hit, which most often is caused by ammunition. That fact that you reloaded the ammo, and it fired the second time, is normal for light hits ammo, and would not indicate the ammo was good, only that it fired after two striker hits.
If it is ammo problem (light hits), try switching to another brand. This will usually eliminate light hits. Quite often you can use the same type of ammo, just make sure it has a different batch number (made at a different time than the ammo you are having issues with).
What you failed to indicate was did you check the primer on the round that did not fire? The trigger may have released the striker, but you might have had a light hit. With hearing protection, you can't hear the striker release. Make it a point, when this happens, to pull the round and check the primer. If there was no indentation on the primer, then the striker did not impact the primer. However if there is a primer indentation, then it was a light hit, which most often is caused by ammunition. That fact that you reloaded the ammo, and it fired the second time, is normal for light hits ammo, and would not indicate the ammo was good, only that it fired after two striker hits.
If it is ammo problem (light hits), try switching to another brand. This will usually eliminate light hits. Quite often you can use the same type of ammo, just make sure it has a different batch number (made at a different time than the ammo you are having issues with).
Bob
Sorry, can't agree with this. I've shot hundreds of thousands of rounds being a match shooter and it's not bad ammo, it's the gun. Yes changing ammo may temporarily fix the problem but the gun is supposed to fire all ammo, not only some of it. What happens when you can't get the ammo that your gun likes? You have a useless paperweight. When you get ammo that a current S&W doesn't like, it will most likely have no problems in a Glock, Sig or something else. You can see all over this website complaints of lite strikes & misfires. 3rd party companies even sell different springs to handle some of these issues. How is there so much bad ammo coming out of CCI, Federal, PMC, Winchester, Hornady etc all of a sudden these past few years? If there's so much bad ammo out there our police across the US must be scared to death to carry any of it.
The only ammo that I've shot in many decades of shooting that had misfires other than lower ended rimfire was ammo missing the powder (very rare) and recent models of S&W pistols (a lot). Funny my older pistols have no misfires with any older or new ammo. I've never seen a misfire in a Glock and I don't even like them.
What I have seen when there's misfires is weak hammer springs, short firing pins, excessive headspace (easily checked) and broken fireing pins or hammer springs.
The National Matches at Camp Perry are going on now and most match shooters will be using reloads and most of it will fire like it's supposed to. Attending matches with 30+ match shooters I don't see misfire being a common problem. But with self defense pistols that you're supposed to depend your life and your family's life seems to be.
Don't forget dirty a striker channel. I recently encountered that as a cause of light primer hits. I could hear and feel the strikef hit though. The OP had a dead trigger. It sounds like S&W might have fixed it.
When cleaning your gun, don't forget to clean the strikef channel folks. Do not use oil in there. Don't be like me and have a gun that suddenly has light primer hits after light primer hits. A clean gun is a happy gun!
I finally got out to the range to test the M&P40 after getting it back from Smith & Wesson. I'm happy to report that the adjustment to the trigger bar apparently resolved the problem. I shot 200+ rounds yesterday, slow fire, rapid fire, 3 different brands of ammo (American Eagle, Winchesrter White Box, and some Federal hollow point stuff). Everything worked as advertised, no malfunctions at all. I'm a happy camper.
M&P40 failed to fire
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