I see a lot of people replacing their stock triggers with an Apex. I'm not a big fan of altering guns and putting stuff that's not from the manufacturer on them as I'm afraid they will fail, nevertheless, I am wondering what exactly is wrong with the stock trigger on these guns? Is it too heavy? Too light? What?

I personally do not like a "light, sensitive" trigger because that can be a problem. I like my trigger to be not too heavy, not too light and I think the trigger on the M&P 45 is just fine. I haven't tried an Apex so I don't know what the difference is but if you guys can please explain the differences and why you prefer the Apex over the stock that would be awesome so I can understand a bit more. Thanks.

Reset. I'm used to a very tactile reset from shooting Glocks for decades.

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Centennial Every Day

My main reason for installing the Apex duty/carry kit in my Shield, the stock trigger was heavy and gritty. The kit turned a good gun into a fantastic gun. Put 500 rounds thru the gun since the install. NO issues at all.

According to this link:

Product: Smith & Wesson M&P45 - Black - Thumb Safety

The M&P trigger is 7 pounds. How many pounds is the one on the Glock?

Yes the kit gave my gun a shorter, distinct reset.Another big plus

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my understanding that having a trigger like the one on the M&P is good for defense because it will give you a "chance" to back off and not pull the trigger and kill someone that may not need to be killed, unlike a sensitive trigger that would go off immediately and not give you a chance to retreat on your decision. Is this true?

I'm not touching the trigger on my 40c. Perfect for carry. Now if I only owned 1 gun, & I intended to target shoot with it, then yes, I would change the trigger. But since I have a 1911 with a hair trigger for target shooting, there is no need to modify the trigger on my carry gun. GARY

OP - I think a good portion of the "Hate the stock trigger" crowd hates them because they've read on the interwebs that M&P's have a ****** trigger. So, if the interwebs say that it must be fact!

My M&P40, 40c & Shield 40 all have stock triggers.

Get a MA compliant M&P. Like pulling a brick with your pinky

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think if you are just looking for a more positive rest you can replace the slide stop/release with the new redesigned one.

No, you should not be relying on the trigger pull weight (or travel) to give you a "chance" to change your mind. If you make the decision to draw your weapon, the next step should be to pull the trigger. Trigger weight won't matter with all that adrenalin coursing through your veins. I like the Apex trigger on my competition pistols because I don't like the two piece trigger that S&W uses.

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Minimize the variables

My only reason for adding apex parts is I live in mass and to be mass compliant they must have a10.5 pound trigger pull and as one poster previously said it's like trying to pull a brick with your pinky

For me the issue is that I'm trying to learn to shoot, and shoot well. I attend training and shoot IDPA as much as I can, but my main goal is not games. It's to really master my weapon.

The reasons that I replaced the stock action parts on my full-sized M&P 40 with an Apex Tactical Specialties DCAEK kit were:
1. The gritty stock-trigger pull didn't have a well-defined, clean break. I couldn't find and hold just below the break amid all of the grittiness. I found the stock trigger to make precision shooting (hostage scenerios, etc.) much harder than it should have been without the tactile feel of the break-point.
2. The trigger lacked a positive reset. Installing the DCAEK has really helped speed up my second shot!

I've put 7,000 rounds or so through the gun since the change, (I wouldn't want to count the dry-practice!), so I don't have any problem with reliability. I shoot mostly medium-velocity reloads (IDPA major power-factor of 165), not many full-strength self-defense loads. And the 5# trigger pull seems to be about right for a carry weapon. About the only thing I've done to the guts of the weapon since I installed the kit was to bend out the loop in the trigger bar where it contacts the sear, as the trigger break had crept back too far. Other than that (and wearing out two magazine catches), the gun's been a workhorse!

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got some dry-practice to do...

Wait....What?!?!?!? When you have your pistol drawn your finger is off the trigger. If your finger is on the trigger its means you are going to fire the pistol. There is no in between.

I've never felt the need to modify the trigger on my 9c, bought it in 2010, I think, it's the most accurate auto I've ever owned, and had quite a few in a few decades. I usually shoot Smith revolvers in SA mode, and I don't find the M&P trigger objectionable. More comfortable for me than brand G.

I've shot Smith and Wesson revolvers mostly double action since the early 1970's. There is nothing wrong with the M&P trigger.

When I want a well defined break and short reset I shoot a 1911.

As a couple of previous posters have said, if you live in Mass, what you get is a 10.5lb trigger pull. The first couple of times to the range with my 45c, my index finger started to cramp after a while. I could have lived with a little grittiness, no problem; but I couldn't shoot it accurately with that pull. The Apex kits are exceptionally well engineered and I've never seen anyone on this Forum complain about them being unreliable or problematic.

I kept the stock trigger on my Sigs but had Bill Springfield do a trigger job on my H K LEM's, Rugger Cotton do my Glocks with the Maritime cup, and APEX all of my M&P.'s. APEX does the court defensible 5.5 trigger that literally breaks like a glass rod and the trigger reset is very distinguishable. At Tom Givens advanced instructor workshop the drills are so intense that you must know exactly where the trigger of your piece resents simply to stay up on the advanced drills. I am one of Mas Ayoob's senior instructors and have had to use my handgun twice in the past 10 years. (That was how I met Mas.) Having a piece of rescue equipment made perfect will not hurt you in court at all. He wants everyone to have a 4+ pound trigger pull and that is what we teach. As I said APEX has their carry trigger set at 5.5 lbs

I plan on putting an apex kit in my 45c. My main reason is to shorten the over travel. Also, having a super smooth pull followed by a glass-like trigger break doesn't sound all that bad. I've done a lot of research on apex tactical and it sounds like Randy Lee and his team KNOW THEIR STUFF. I've spent 80 bucks on worse things.

I went with the APEX poly trigger for a reduction in extremely long take up, and now the trigger now has a decent take up a and a crisp break. I dont' feel the need for any additional upgrades. Still has the 6.5lb pull.

I for one really like the trigger on my M&P .40 Granted, I bought it a month ago and only put 150 rounds through it, but I really like the trigger. Note: on my second trip to the range, my friend rented a Glock 9mm (I forget the exact model, but I think it was a Glock 17), and as good as I hear that Glock triggers are (which it was), I actually prefer my M&P's trigger.

Will be buying an H&K VP9 in a few weeks, so I'll have something to compare to. Even still, I think I'll always like and be fond of my M&P, especially since it's my first gun.

Being an old geezer, I'm too wedded to the excellent triggers on my 1911 guns to appreciate any DAO type of trigger of any sort. I loathe all of 'em.

The stock M&P trigger doesn't bother me. However, I dislike how each pistol is different. My 9FS has a definite click in the reset, however, the 45c does not have any click, yet they were produced around the same time. Basically, each one of my M&Ps has a different feel.

I enjoy my M&Ps, but I can't seem to shoot them as well as my Glocks. I attribute this to the trigger. It's not worth it to me to install APEX triggers. All of my Glock triggers are the same (even among different years of manufacture), which is a good thing.

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M&Ps: 45, 45c, 9

I think this is the case for quite a few people. Personally I don't notice any problems with the trigger on my .40 Shield but if I replaced the trigger then I might like that better. But I have no plans to do that.

This... Hit the nail on the head. If you do not have a Massachusetts compliant pistol, I don't really see a reason in messing with the trigger other than maybe for competition purposes...

Another reason people want to switch out the trigger is just because they feel the need to customize/change something. Even if S&W secretly started installing the Apex trigger in the factory, so people would still feel the need to buy an aftermarket trigger.

To those that don't like safeties on M&P's because it's not like a Glock and/or the trigger pull on M&P's because you're use to the Glock trigger and/or the reset because it's not like Glocks, so on and so forth, why in the hell didn't you just buy a Glock in the first place?

I bought mine (9FS sku 209301) new in Nov '13.

Out of the box, the trigger felt like it was drawing over a sheet of sandpaper. The pull was 7 to 8 lbs. There was a lot of movement of the barrel at the break.

After shooting it that way for a few hundred rounds, I had the DCAEK by Apex installed.

The reprofiled Apex striker block and sear smoothed out the pull and removed the grittiness, resulting in a 5.6 lb pull. I have 2,300+ rounds through the gun so far.

It is a pretty dramatic change. The OEM trigger is not bad. The Apex parts just make the gun much more comfortable to shoot, so I enjoy it more.

For me, thats a no brainer.

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Take your time, fast. J.Hughes

Because other than the trigger, everything else on an M&P is better than a Glock... nothing wrong with some "tuning" is there?

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

WE only have 2 m&p's One is a compact 9mm , the other a 4.25 core . The trigger on the core was light enough but gritty like no trigger should be , the compact was both heavier and grittier than any defense pistol we own and . Both got a apex striker block change and the compact hand some springs changed to get it at or below 5lbs. Beyond that the trigger does "grit " if pulled any way but straight back. Any side pressure and they again have the grind away feel but at least it teaches you to make a squared up straight back pull for a nice functional trigger pull .

All I can say is if your comfortable with the triggers as most m&p trigger come , or should I say after 1000 rounds to break it in as some say they do to wear it in then your happy as a pig in poo and need nothing more. Personally ,I don't need a lite trigger pull on a defensive pistol but I do like a smooth trigger as it comes from the box but at least thanks to apex you don't have to shoot one enough to smooth the trigger. I have double action revolvers with better , smoother and lighter pull than the m&p compact when my wife brought it home brand new.

I still use the stock triggers but s&w could have made the over all package better for sure. Most companies make lawyer proof trigger now.

I agree with this, I too, grew up shooting double action S&W revolvers and I've also owned several 1911's over the years.

Until August 2014, I had never owned a poly framed gun of any kind. My first was an SD9VE, then my M&P 45 and I have an M&P 9mm in layaway. I have put twice as many rounds through the SD as I have the M&P; and I still shoot it a touch better. Neither of these guns shoot the same as my Ruger SR1911 and never will, IMO. 2 different types of guns, 2 different types of actions, 2 different types of trigger assemblies.

I haven't modded either of the S&W's and don't plan to. I don't shoot "to re-set" and I don't plan to. I don't shoot competition, but IDPA looks very interesting to me, so I may give it a try; and if I do, it will be with one of my stock handguns.

If my guns had a horrible trigger, I would opt to find a way to improve it, I'm sure. If it had a 10.5 lb. pull, I'm sure I would!

True but think about it. There must be a reason why they made the trigger like they did. The military and the police use these guns and they don't have the resources to replace the S&W triggers with Apex triggers. That would be too expensive to do and they simply don't have the time for that and if the military can use these weapons effectively and shoot them without problems, why can't us regular people do the same? All it takes is practice, practice, practice. If the trigger was so bad, the armed forces and the police would not be using them.

The stock trigger on my Shield is great. After almost 2k rounds, it's very smooth and a 5 lb 12 oz pull. I have very limited experience with the other M&P's but I have shot a FS 9mm, a compact .40, and a FS .22. Can't say i liked the trigger at all on any of those. But they were rental guns, so who knows how they've been treated.

I put Apex parts in my guns for a couple of reasons.. On my 9c's (carry guns) I put the DCAEK kits in them. I first shot about 700 rounds through them. I wanted a lighter, smoother trigger, but not too light. I wanted a trigger around 4 lbs. I later added the polymer trigger since I did not like the actual feel of the stock trigger. On my competition guns, I put the FSS kits in them. They have about a 2.5-3 lbs. trigger pull. Next to zero pre travel and very little over travel.

Because Glock doesn't make a single stack 9mm.

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"Carpe Pistolium"

+1. What he said.

This is very evident from the number of people who post something along the line of 'I just ordered my M&P [fill-in-the-model], along with an Apex Kit.'. If they haven't even tried their new (on order) pistol, they don't even know (yet) how good, or bad, their new pistol will feel. Many in this group are obviously needing to tinker (or brag that they 'can'). This is not confined to just M&Ps though. I read the same thing on the XD Forums too.

Of course... Some simply judge every pistol against a 1911. Why do they think a factory striker fire trigger system (or DAO system for that matter) should feel like a SA system?

I never bought an M&P FS or C because of their terrible factory triggers. I bought other brands. The Shield's factory trigger is the only M&P trigger that felt good.
Like Caferacer wrote... If Glock had a Single-Stack Subcompact 9mm/.40 in the race, I probably never would have given the Shield a try back in '12. If/When Glock does introduce a Single-Stack 9/40, I'll probably get one (once the 'feeding frenzy' lets up )

I have 3 M&Ps, 9FS, 9C and a 40. I installed the kit on the 9 which made it much better.

The 40 was a police trade in and well broken in and the 9C is just fine too. I think it just depends.... I didn't really hate the FS trigger, but the APEX is a rather large improvement.

Heavy pull, crunchy take up, mushy break, false or non existent reset, long reset, long take up.... Apex makes MAGIC triggers, S&W should seriously consider using Apex triggers as the stock M&P trigger.

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unrepentant M&P fanboy

I bought a 9mm Shield in Sept. and it had the safety. All my SD guns for the last 15 years have been 45ACP 1911 Commander size guns with 4lb trigger pulls. The Shield had a 81/2lb trigger pull. With a safety there was no reason for the 81/2 lb trigger pull. So I did the full Apex install including their trigger. I now have a 41/2 lb trigger pull. There's less take up, less over travel, shorter reset, and no grittiness. What's not to like. The manual of arms is basically the same as my 1911s. It's very accurate to boot!! It's my first plastic fantastic and I really like it. Less weight helps my back when it's sore and I can't pack my 1911s!

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gunfighter48
NRA Life Member

scorbing YOU did not pay attention that I said I still have the STOCK triggers. Just some other trigger group parts as in springs and one has a striker block changed because I can and don't all aspects of the trigger group. If I could not I would not have bought a M&P .

The police buy m&p because s&w makes attractive deals some departments can't refuse , Like glock does. And some department are getting out of m&p and changing to others for some given reasons too. Ask them if YOU want to know. If YOU like your s as it came and thinks its all that ! Good for you . I think many brands of firearms in gerenal could have better triggers group function . For me a trigger pull doesn't need to be lite but they should be smooth. M&P's are not smooth.

Besides , With most law enforcement departments since you brought them up tend to use heavier that stock trigger to help with controlling the trigger during high stress moments as a 10lb trigger is standard in some larger departments and some states. SO are you now going to jack up the pull weight of yours to match what NYCP or even the state of mass-e-chose-iss makes there citizens use ?

As with several other posters I'm on the oldish side and grew up with S&W revolvers and good 1911s. Carried them and shot them in competition. After 40 years of this you sort of develop a bias for what a gun should feel like. Every M&P I've bought new (now 4 of them) has had a gritty trigger, something no trigger should have. Period. My solution is to send them all to the Performance Center for their M&P action job ($110 + shipping)where they install their Pro parts and clean up the rough edges. In each case what I've gotten back is a very smooth predictable trigger, only a bit lighter than stock, that stacks nicely just prior to striker release. Each is very easy to shoot accurately and is still 100% Smith and Wesson. Like some others here I could care less about "tactile reset". Never had that on a DA revolver so why worry about it on my M&P, and frankly never paid attention to it on any of my 1911s either. Bottom line: better triggers = better shooting, and that after all is the entire point. If the trigger some of you get meets all your requirements then good for you, but I'd love to take some of you for a blind test and see which you shoot better, a good trigger or a ****** one.

Keith

I'm very happy with the stock trigger on my M&P45. Haven't changed a thing and I actually shoot it a little better than I shot my Glock so for me there has been no downside. I've never shot an Apex trigger so can't say it isn't better though.

I agree with DocSunShine! I purchased ath M&P 40 Core. Frankly, it needed a better trigger. I got it with the Apex. Pistol is now great. The only bad aspect of the deal was that I had to buy the trigger the pistol should have come equipped with.

And I'm willing to bet they never will make one, it won't be at the same price point or value of the M&P Shield. Also, my comment did not only pertain to the Shield. I'm also referring to people who buy the full size and compact double stack M&Ps.

Maybe because I'm relatively new to firearms, particularly semi autos, but it doesn't bother me at all. While I admit the trigger on my P226 feels smoother, my hands are strong from lifting weights for 20 years, so a little mushy pull and the reset aren't a problem for me. I only replaced the sights.

M&P 9 is my first poly gun. Have always had DA revolvers, so a big change for me. I started shooting in a league in order to become more comfortable with a completely different concept, and found I didn't like the factory trigger feel. After the local gunsmith polished up the factory trigger, I am ecstatic about the difference. Only ran a couple mags through when I picked it up, but much smoother, a more consistent, and slightly lighter weight. Result was a much tighter pattern than I have been shooting.

I also did not like the sandy/gritty feel. No one can say that it is meant to be gritty. It is gritty because it is a production gun and the design leads to a gritty feel. The trigger weight certainly could be intentional... but not the grittiness.

Could I survive without the APEX kit... sure. Would some of my friends even notice the trigger as being bad... some not.

Once I pulled the trigger with it installed I felt like I had a very comfortable handgun and felt complete

Also have to agree that trigger weight should not be a safety mechanism to give you a chance to rethink accidentally shooting your grandma in a dark hallway.

There are some that don't wait to try the trigger, on their new M&P and that is due to the fact that as others have stated they read it on the internet so it must be so! However there are some of us that shoot alot in IDPA or USPA and understand that the trigger dynamics can be significantly different allowing better handling and accuracy. I have a pet saying that will help to understand. "Those that have never truly exoerienced a great trigger no explanation is possible, to those that have shot a pistol with a great trigger no explanation is necessary!
To me a great trigger is one that has a very clean break at 5-5.5lbs but feels like 3lbs! Like someone else said its smooth as glass! I installed the complete Apex kit on my 9L and it turned an ok trigger into a great trigger. now has a nice tactile reset and less takeup and overtravel.So
in summation its that some people know that the trigger can be much better and striving to shoot better becomes an acheivable goal, with this change. I guess not one of you guys that say your triggers are fine have ever bought a new car and purchased some performance parts for it or made dual exhausts instead of single exhaust, I could go on but I think I have made my point. If you are happy with your factory gun thats great, no one has forced you to buy any performance parts, but for you guys that do, good for you, your the people that actually get it!!

My M&P40 came out of the box with a 4.3 pound trigger with a nice clean break but a tiny bit of grit. That grit went away within the first few months of shooting. 3-1/2 years and 20,000 rounds later the trigger seemed to be great, but the gun just didn't shoot consistently well. One day I could get a mag full inside 2" at 10 yards. The next, it would barely hold 4". I knew it wasn't me because I can hold those groups consistently with my Ruger revolver and 1911. I then bought a Sig SP2022 in 40 and was holding those groups with it too so it had to be the M&P40.

Once I put the Apex FSS kit in, the groups were much more consistently good. I found out that it was the overtravel that was killing the accuracy. That meant the gun was very sensitive on the exact direction of your trigger pull and follow through of the finger to stay consistent. With the reduced overtravel of the FSS trigger, there is no place for the gun to shift to as the bullet goes down the barrel.

In an SD situation, the trigger won't matter unless you are trying to stop a charging mountain lion at 50 yards. If I were to get a Shield, I wouldn't change the trigger, but then again I don't think I'll be shooting 200 rounds regularly at the range either.

Very long, heavy and gritty trigger with lots of over travel in my new M&P9 FS made precise shooting extremely difficult. Apex FSS installed this morning and what was a terrible trigger is now excellent.

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NRA/Illinois/Utah Instructor