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Old 02-15-2015, 03:58 PM
STL73 STL73 is offline
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Default Slingshot method

Hope this is not one of those highly controversial subjects like caliber effectiveness and so on, but here goes...

I was getting ready to leave the house with a friend who CCW's like myself. As an avid gun guy, I don't ask anybody to disarm, just take it out of battery in the house, for safety reasons, kids and so on.....

As we were leaving I watched him take a center fire round (in a safe direction of course), seat it in the chamber and slowly let the slide forward by hand. He then did an admin check by pulling the slide just a hair to observe the round, then holstered it.

I asked him why, he said he was worried about a accidental discharge, in the event the pin hit the round.

With the exception of a couple of Kahr's that I have that require thumbing the slide lock (with a huge honking slide stop lever to back it up), I have always used the slingshot method for two reasons, to make sure the round seats properly and secondly, unlike in the movies, it's a slide stop, not a slide release...

My go to EDC for a long time now is a Shield .40, I attempted (once again safely) to load a round using this method and found the slide would not move fully forward into place. Obviously not being comfortable I went ahead and slung it into place and went about my business.

Just looking for some thoughts, if this is one of "those subjects" please don't answer. Not looking for drama, just some educated/experienced thoughts on the subject.

Thanks.
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Old 02-15-2015, 04:18 PM
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No comment on mechanics and gun construction, but I do have a comment on safety. I would not ask someone to handle a gun in my house. Handling guns is when accidents happen. If someone is too stupid to carry a gun without having it go off unhandled in his holster, I would really rather not have him in my house at all. I certainly wouldn't invite him to handle a gun twice every time he visited me.

You need more friends with revolvers, anyway.
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Old 02-15-2015, 04:20 PM
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Per the manual:
Quote:
The 2nd 'Warning' Paragraph at the top of Page 18:
NEVER ATTEMPT TO LOAD THE PISTOL BY INSERTING A
ROUND INTO THE OPEN EJECTION PORT.
A few brands, depending on the type of extractor, don't have a problem doing it that way, but with other brands, manually inserting a round through the ejection port, directly into the chamber can damage the extractor, or cause an unintended discharge (especially if there's a 'floating' firing pin).

Other than that... 'Slingshot' method is the recommended method to load the 1st round from the magazine (Bottom of Page 17), as opposed to thumbing the Slide Stop.

I also would not ask someone to handle/manipulate their SD weapon in my house.
They can leave it loaded and holstered... It won't go off by itself.

Last edited by RobzGuns; 02-15-2015 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:08 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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I'll second the un-necessary admin unload and reload. Unless you're afraid your kids are going to disarm the visitor and commit violence.

The easing the slide is another issue. The slide should bang home to make sure it's in battery. Semi-auto pistols are intended to feed from the magazine. NOT by dropping the round into the chamber.

Assuming his firearm doesn't slam fire in normal operation, it isn't going to do so while loading.
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STL73 View Post
Hope this is not one of those highly controversial subjects like caliber effectiveness and so on, but here goes...
Sorry brother, but all gun topics are highly controversial.

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Originally Posted by STL73 View Post
I asked him why, he said he was worried about a accidental discharge, in the event the pin hit the round.
For the uninitiated this may sound like a reasonable train of logic. Your friend does not understand how the gun works.

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Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
Assuming his firearm doesn't slam fire in normal operation, it isn't going to do so while loading.
This statement is why his logic doesn't track.

Under normal use the slide action is far more violent then when doing an administrative load. If it were going to fire while loading, it would go full auto as soon as you press the trigger.

If you like, I can give an exhaustive description of why it's safe to load by just letting the slide drop on a loaded magazine. I just don't want to go through the effort if no one really wants it.
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Old 02-15-2015, 09:07 PM
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The striker block will prevent the striker from hitting the primer when the slide is released to chamber a round.

That is what it is designed for. To prevent the striker from making contact with a round unless the trigger is pulled.


Some pistols can be damaged from loading a round into the chamber by hand and releasing the slide.


I will also say that I would not ask that someone handle their firearm unnecessarily... The most likely chances for an accident are when gun and ammo meet.

A gun sitting in a holster is safer by far... It is also in your possession, not sitting on a table with a magazine next to it, which can lead to a bad situation if attention lapses when little ones are around... Unless you are holstering an empty weapon and stowing the mag... which can lead to forgetfulness. "Oh ****, I forgot to reload!"

Constant reloads of the same round can lead to bullet setback... Which can lead to dangerous overpressure... This is more likely if you use +p ammo.

I only unload when necessary...I have a safe place to store my pistol at night, and do a quick check in the morning before I leave.

Last edited by marine6680; 02-15-2015 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 02-15-2015, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Sorry brother, but all gun topics are highly controversial.

If you like, I can give an exhaustive description of why it's safe to load by just letting the slide drop on a loaded magazine. I just don't want to go through the effort if no one really wants it.
Please do..... thanks
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Old 02-15-2015, 09:40 PM
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Please do..... thanks
Here's the Cliff Notes version: Because that's what it's designed to do . . .
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Old 02-15-2015, 10:15 PM
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thank you gentleman for the insightful comments and the lack of drama, starting to like this forum....
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Old 02-15-2015, 11:12 PM
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1.Unnecessary administrative handling leads to negligent discharges. Just leave the gun holstered

2.Putting a round in the chamber then releasing the slide forces the extractor over the cartridge rim and will eventually break the extractor.

3. As you pointed out it's a slide lock not a slide release
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Old 02-15-2015, 11:35 PM
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Default Specifically, NO.....

The manual for my 5943 says NOT to load the breech but only load from the magazine.
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Old 02-16-2015, 07:47 AM
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Don't disarm but purposely put your gun out of battery??????? Isn't the best thing to do is leave all guns in holsters and leave all holsters on hips? Wow.
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Old 02-16-2015, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Model520Fan View Post
No comment on mechanics and gun construction, but I do have a comment on safety. I would not ask someone to handle a gun in my house. Handling guns is when accidents happen. If someone is too stupid to carry a gun without having it go off unhandled in his holster, I would really rather not have him in my house at all. I certainly wouldn't invite him to handle a gun twice every time he visited me.

You need more friends with revolvers, anyway.
^^^This^^^



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Old 02-16-2015, 10:49 AM
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Default Press check.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke View Post

2.Putting a round in the chamber then releasing the slide forces the extractor over the cartridge rim and will eventually break the extractor.
My 5943 manual (I think) also says not to press check but sometimes I crack the slide ever so slightly to see if a round is in the chamber and let it go back into battery slowly and push the slide forward to make sure it's definitely in battery. Is this OK? I can't see it messing up the extractor because the cartridge was loaded from the magazine.

As far as safety goes, this is one thing that bothers me about semis. There are so many variations in action and manual of arms that a slip up while handling is more likely especially with different people doing so during a house visit where they are probably distracted and in close quarters without a bench and a range in front of you to work on. Sure you should know your gun thoroughly, but that isn't a positive plan. Hopefully the other rules will prevent harm in case of an AD.

Personally, I'd rather just safe weapons before I enter someone's house.
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Old 02-16-2015, 11:13 AM
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The only guns designed to be breech loaded are rifles and shotguns. Asking someone to "disarm" their gun when entering your house increases the possibility of accidents. Why couldn't he just put it on top of a cabinet or somewhere out of the reach of children? Dropping the slide at full force on a loaded mag isn't going to cause an accidental discharge, the same as de-cocking. However all firearms need to be pointed in a safe direction when performing these maneuvers. Preferably outside the house.
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Old 02-16-2015, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Isn't the best thing to do is leave all guns in holsters and leave all holsters on hips?
This has been said a few times. However, it is not universally true.

I don't know about y'all, but many times I've been at friends houses and we've wrestled around with the kids a lot. Football, basketball and just plain goofing around with a gun in your holster is not wise.

However, I do agree that loading and unloading the gun, regardless of how it's done, is dangerous as well. The more a gun with live ammo is handled, the higher the probability of a negligent discharge.

If I were concerned, I would ask them to leave it in the car. That is by far the easiest solution. If they didn't have a car, i.e. they walked over, I would offer to store it in my safe while they were here.
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Old 02-16-2015, 03:09 PM
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Regarding the method of loading, I slingshot (overhand). As others have said, the striker block will prevent any "contact".

I don't think you asked this but, if your concerned with him (or others) who carry coming into your home, what do you do with yours? Do you still carry, or do you secure it somewhere? Perhaps a cheap gunvault in a closet will do or as suggested earlier, have them leave it in their car.
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:14 PM
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Revolver and no friends...problem solved.
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:44 PM
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Generally a semi-auto is designed to feed from the magazine ONLY. The general design is as the slide moves forward it hits the back of the top round and spring pressure slides the bullet up under the extractor at the same time it is pushed up by the magazine. Some guns have a spring loaded extractor and are less prone to being damaged by loading the chamber directly, but in the long run it will wear the sharp edge off the extractor prematurely even with the spring. With no spring you are forcing the extractor to flex or bend around the case rim. That can cause chipping/cracking of the extractor,loss of proper pressure on the extractor as it is flexed back and forth and problems with the cases if the case is reloaded.
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:45 PM
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3 1/2 years later. A loaded firearm in a holster doesn't make me nervous. A firearm being fumbled around with by a person who hasn't been taught how to operate it does.
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:54 PM
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Revolver and no friends...problem solved.
Yep, us wheelgun guys tend to be eccentric loners
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:09 PM
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I can tell you the advertised rule at my LGS is "NO Unholstering and or handling of personal firearms AT ALL inside the shop for any reason!". If you need to bring one if for us to look at, it will be unloaded elsewhere and brought in with the action open, mag removed ( and preferably cased.) They leave the same way.
Yet, we still have to occasionally correct some hooplehead who thinks he /she is the exception to that rule.
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:15 PM
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Yeah, your friend has too limited knowledge of autos and needs a revolver. There are no threats at my house that I can’t handle, leave your gun in the car...
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Old 09-15-2018, 12:12 PM
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I don't care if visitors are carrying. Perfectly fine and I'm not going to tell them to disarm to come see me. But I don't want them fumble farting around with an unholstered, loaded firearm in my place. I don't do that. I would make them learn to operate it correctly, not how they saw it done on YouTube. Magazine fed firearms are designed to be fed from the mag.
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Old 09-15-2018, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATF
The only guns designed to be breech loaded are rifles and shotguns.
The Beretta 92/96 line, which includes the military M9, is designed so that you can manually load a round into the chamber without using a magazine, and do so without damaging the extractor.

At one time this feature was shown on the Beretta webpage. Don't know if it is still addressed there.

Last edited by Walt Sherrill; 09-15-2018 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 09-15-2018, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
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The Beretta 92/96 line, which includes the military M9, is designed so that you can manually load a round into the chamber without using a magazine, and do so without damaging the extractor.

At one time this feature was shown on the Beretta webpage. Don't know if it is still addressed there.
There are a few more from Beretta as well. The 21A and 950 both feature a pop-up barrel that is designed for loading/unloading directly into/from the breech. It is actually a handy feature on these little guns.
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Old 09-16-2018, 10:59 AM
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I have an old 25 acp berreta (bobcat/tomcat?)that has a tilt up barrel. (Inherited from my grandfather) This is an excellent feature for those folks who have trouble with arthritis ect and have a hard time racking. Simply pop up the barrel and insert a round and close the barrel. Then insert a mag. Sure with it was 32 rather than 25 but it is what it is.

I only carry this little 25 when I wear clothes that will not allow me to carry me shield. So it is 25acp or nothing. I will probably replace it with a 642 or LCR when I have the spare cash to buy another gun. But that may be a while.
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Old 09-16-2018, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STL73 View Post
Hope this is not one of those highly controversial subjects like caliber effectiveness and so on, but here goes...

I was getting ready to leave the house with a friend who carries concealed like myself. As an avid gun guy, I don't ask anybody to disarm, just take it out of battery in the house, for safety reasons, kids and so on.....

As we were leaving I watched him take a center fire round (in a safe direction of course), seat it in the chamber and slowly let the slide forward by hand. He then did an admin check by pulling the slide just a hair to observe the round, then holstered it.

I asked him why, he said he was worried about a accidental discharge, in the event the pin hit the round.

With the exception of a couple of Kahr's that I have that require thumbing the slide lock (with a huge honking slide stop lever to back it up), I have always used the slingshot method for two reasons, to make sure the round seats properly and secondly, unlike in the movies, it's a slide stop, not a slide release...

My go to EDC for a long time now is a Shield .40, I attempted (once again safely) to load a round using this method and found the slide would not move fully forward into place. Obviously not being comfortable I went ahead and slung it into place and went about my business.

Just looking for some thoughts, if this is one of "those subjects" please don't answer. Not looking for drama, just some educated/experienced thoughts on the subject.

Thanks.
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