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Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols All Variants of the Smith & Wesson M&P Auto Series


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Old 03-24-2015, 10:08 AM
Nalapombu Nalapombu is offline
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Hey all,

I have been nosing around lately at 45ACP pistols, the non-1911 variety. I am trying to stay under $600, preferably a lot under.

I am intending on using it as a sidearm for me while I bowhunt feral hogs here in Texas. It is legal to take hogs with any legal means including handguns. It seems prudent to be prepared for whatever might happen in the woods while chasing these hogs.

Here's some of the pistols on my list.

1. S&W M&P45 with 4 1/2 inch barrel.
2. Glock 21
3. Glock 41
4. EAA Sarilzmaz SAR K2
5. EAA Witness
6. Springfield XD

I have handled and read about all of them except the Witness. The S&W feels great in the hand. I believe it is much better than the others in that department. I'm also sure that it can hold its own against the others just fine. It also has a price that's lower than $500 and that is a BIG PLUS for me.
Whichever one I pick might be exposed to rain, dirt, banging around, who knows what. I would love to see a M&P 45 with a 5 inch barrel and 13 round capacity. I wonder why S&W doesn't come out with a long slide version of the 45ACP? They have them on both the 9mm and 40S&W. It just seems a natural thing to have a version in 45ACP, but they don't. Does anyone know if they are planning on such a version?

I'd like to know what you all think about the M&P 45 in the capacity I will be exposing it to. I've never shot an M&P so I don't know how it will match up against the Glock 21 and the others.
Right now if I were forced to pick my top 2 it would be the M&P and that Turkish made pistol the SAR K2. I handled it last week and it is a pretty darn nice piece. It holds 14+1 and is around $450.

I'd like to hear your thoughts and/or suggestions on my choices and if you think the M&P is the top pick for what I want to do.

Thanks all

Nalajr
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Old 03-24-2015, 10:21 AM
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I am going through the same decision at the moment. As a long time 9mm fan I've been leaning towards a .45 ACP because I've got enough 9mm's and .38's. I've been looking at the H&K 45, FNX Tactical and Glock 21
The .45 would just be a range gun and It's not a necessity.
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Old 03-24-2015, 10:27 AM
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Should not have a problem with the M&P in the wilderness. I prefer the G21 but the M&P should work just as well
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Old 03-24-2015, 10:41 AM
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I have owned or shot several of the pistols you mention. The Glock is reliable, but cumbersome, and the Witness is a fine pistol, but heavy. The XD is a but topheavy, in my view. My vote would be for the M&P. I own the Compact, and it's becoming my favorite pistol. The full size one is fine, too, but the Compact is just right. Actually, it's about the size of a Commander, so compact doesn't really apply. Eight shots, plus one in the pipe, should do anything that needs doing.

Good luck in your search!
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Old 03-24-2015, 12:02 PM
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You might look at the Kahr's. The CT45, CW45 ,and the CM 45 all run in the middle $300 range. I own a Kahr CW 45 and find it a nice gun to carry and shoot. Bud's gun shop has all of these plus some that cost more.
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Old 03-24-2015, 12:35 PM
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CZ 97 will fit the needs well .
Kahr 4" ct or tp 45 is a nice light accurate pistol that takes 1911 mags . I'm an hog hunter .

I enjoy my semi-autos but I would pull my old hog handgun out of the safe , my dan Wesson 15-2 357 . Nothing like a 180gr hard cast at 1400fps to stop a pig . Taken a lot of hogs with it .
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Old 03-24-2015, 02:11 PM
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I have the FS M&P 45 and a Ruger SR1911. Two different platforms but I like them both. FYI, S&W offers a 14 round magazine for the M&P. The recoil on the M&P is more a straight back push. It feels like a softer shooting pistol. I went from NO polymer pistols to now owning 5! I enjoy shooting them and carrying them. They have all been accurate and reliable. So I would vote for the M&P but I am biased. :-)

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Old 03-24-2015, 04:38 PM
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I too have an M&P45, the midsize version. It has a full size frame with a 4" barrel. Comes with two 10-round mags. I also have two 14-round mags. Would highly recommend this set up. It shoots very softly for a 45acp.
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Old 03-24-2015, 04:55 PM
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I tell ya I like several of the pistols on the list and prior to handling the M&P I had my sights on the SAR K2, it was $404 from Buds and it felt really nice in the hand, but a bit heavy. It also had really good reviews and user reviews. Then the price climbed to $450 and is going up steadily and the 2 tone version is $505. Then I see that the new M&P 45 4 1/2 can be had for less than that, if I went used, prolly a lot less than $500. Well not a LOT, but you get the idea.
I like the SAR K2, but at the $404 price, not at the $505 level. Then you think about what happens if something breaks. EAA carried them, dropped them, and is now carrying them again. So you can't rely on such an arrangement and getting a part from Turkey would be damn near impossible, I think.

I like the G21 and 41 and the M&P. When all is relatively equal, price is going to decide this match up.

I still wish S&W would make a 5 inch version.

Thanks all.

Nalajr
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Old 03-24-2015, 05:28 PM
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NOT a poly-pistol fan. But, thanks to a LGS at which I was employed a few years back, got sent to a S&W M&P Armorers Course. Part of completing the course was a voucher that allowed graduates to purchase ANY M&P for the sum of $200.
Couldn't say no, especally after learning about the pistols and their development.
Got a FDE Mid-size .45 M&P. Been great in every aspect. Dead-reliable and surprisingly accurate. Will put a Apex Tactical trigger kit in it one day. Helps with poundage of trigger pull and reset. Cannot fault the pistol in any way.

BTW - I have very large hands, and to me, the Glock 21 feels like holding a table leg.
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Old 03-24-2015, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalapombu View Post
Hey all,

I have been nosing around lately at 45ACP pistols, the non-1911 variety. I am trying to stay under $600, preferably a lot under.

I am intending on using it as a sidearm for me while I bowhunt feral hogs here in Texas. It is legal to take hogs with any legal means including handguns. It seems prudent to be prepared for whatever might happen in the woods while chasing these hogs.

Here's some of the pistols on my list.

1. S&W M&P45 with 4 1/2 inch barrel.
2. Glock 21
3. Glock 41
4. EAA Sarilzmaz SAR K2
5. EAA Witness
6. Springfield XD

I have handled and read about all of them except the Witness. The S&W feels great in the hand. I believe it is much better than the others in that department. I'm also sure that it can hold its own against the others just fine. It also has a price that's lower than $500 and that is a BIG PLUS for me.
Whichever one I pick might be exposed to rain, dirt, banging around, who knows what. I would love to see a M&P 45 with a 5 inch barrel and 13 round capacity. I wonder why S&W doesn't come out with a long slide version of the 45ACP? They have them on both the 9mm and 40S&W. It just seems a natural thing to have a version in 45ACP, but they don't. Does anyone know if they are planning on such a version?

I'd like to know what you all think about the M&P 45 in the capacity I will be exposing it to. I've never shot an M&P so I don't know how it will match up against the Glock 21 and the others.
Right now if I were forced to pick my top 2 it would be the M&P and that Turkish made pistol the SAR K2. I handled it last week and it is a pretty darn nice piece. It holds 14+1 and is around $450.

I'd like to hear your thoughts and/or suggestions on my choices and if you think the M&P is the top pick for what I want to do.

Thanks all

Nalajr
I love John Browning's 1911 so much I was born on his birthday.

I own more 1911s than anything else.

Going down your list, I would never own a Glock. I am not saying they are not reliable or durable, just having grown up with 1911s, the grip angle is wrong for me.

I won't buy an XD simply because it is made in Croatia. I know that is prejudice but that is the way I feel.

Truthfully, I do not want to stake my life on any striker fired semi auto that does not provide a second strike capability. Again just me.

From your list my first choice would be the Italian made EAA Witness. I have had this pair for decades. One is 45ACP and the other is 38Super.



Also, if this is a firearm that I was planning on staking my life on, I would not make the cost of the firearm a deciding factor. I find it is hard to consider saving my life a budgetary choice.

If the gun I liked was $100 or $200 more so what. It just means I have to save a bit longer to buy it, or put it on Lay-A-Way for a little while. Over the course of the 10-20-30 years I am going to depend on it, an extra $300 is only $2 a week if we keep the gun for 10 years.

As to non-1911 45s, I am a big fan of the HK USPs. Super durable and rugged. It is the only 45 Semi auto that can handle 45ACP, 45ACP+P and 45SUPER without modifying the gun for the more powerful ammunition



There are also some very fine older Smith and Wessons that fall into this category.

The 451x family makes a great carry gun.







Then if we are talking about non-1911 45s, how can we forget the SIG P220/P227 autoloaders?


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Old 03-24-2015, 05:52 PM
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I own a bunch of handguns in .45ACP. From a Les Bear at the high end to a Ruger Blackhawk convertible at the low end. My FS M&P.45 is right in the middle for accuracy. Durability is great. Doesn't weigh all that much. Don't have to worry about the finish etc. It makes a real good outdoor companion gun if an auto is what you want. I have a very early model and went to the Apex trigger etc. A very shootable pistol for the money and the ergonomics are great for me.
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Old 03-24-2015, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
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BTW - I have very large hands, and to me, the Glock 21 feels like holding a table leg.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Just asking cause while I don't have large hands they are big enough and with long fingers. I hate little grips with no thickness to take up the space for my fingers, especially if the trigger is close too. I prefer Glock 21 size grip. Plenty to hold on to. Other grips I like are Hague rubber palm swell for any 3rd Gen S&W as well as Sig although Sig OEM isn't too bad.
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Old 03-24-2015, 06:20 PM
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Another one you might want to look into is the new Sig 320. Nothing but great reviews. The gun (s# part) is just the trigger pack so with one trigger pack you can have a full size, compact or sub compact frame with different grip thickness for $50ea. This gives you one gun and 3 ways to carry. The trigger is probably one of the best if not the best for a striker fire. Clean, crisp and short. Priced under $500 with regular sights and just over $500 with NS
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Old 03-24-2015, 09:03 PM
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The M&P .45 was designed initially as a potential military handgun and was entered to compete for the military joint services contract before it was canceled.

They are extremely durable and reliable. I have two full size. Models. One I carry and the other I train with. They feed and function with everything I put in them and I have countless thousands of rounds through one.

I have had or used most of the guns mentioned and the M&P is my favorite.
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Old 03-24-2015, 09:28 PM
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The EAA is from Russia? The saiga people.
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Old 03-24-2015, 09:33 PM
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No. It's a Florida company that imports mainly Italian CZ knockoffs. They did import some stuff from Russia a long time ago
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Old 03-24-2015, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
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The EAA is from Russia? The saiga people.
As stated, EAA is an importer.

The Witness line is from Italy
The SAR line is from Turkey
The Baikal line is from Russia
The Windicator and Bounter lines are from Germany
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Old 03-25-2015, 01:34 AM
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I have heard nothing but good things about the M&P 45. Thought about getting one, but it holds less than my old Para Hi Cap 1911. In competition, every round counts. Lol
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Old 03-26-2015, 11:14 AM
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Nalapombu; IMHO, as a long time 1911 user.
#1. S&W M&P- price, feel, trigger, support unmatched. My choice after years of carrying a 1911.
#2. Glock- same as above but trigger stinks. And trigger hard to fix reliably and safely.(I am gonna get flamed on that statement!) To Glock's credit, their Gen4 triggers are much better, but still not great.
#3. Springfield- Good on all accounts save for parts and support. Very few parts are available(Sprngfld will not sell you parts! You have to ship gun back to them. Bleh!)
#4. High Quality 1911's-(Not the cheap ones. they can be a Pistolsmiths nightmare. And while I love a good 1911, it is NOT a beginners pistol at all. Period!) Oh and good ones are not cheap! Hand built pistol. Lotsa parts and experienced people out there.
#5. SIG- Good save for bass-ackwards controls and high price.
#6. S&W 3rd Gen metal frame pistols- Good, but there is a big problem starting to develope. S&W is just about to quit supporting their metal frame older pistols(Not their 1911's). Almost out of parts and not making any new parts. Sad, but true, I'm afraid. What will you do when you break an extractor, for instance. It is starting to be a real problem.

Anything else I would really not consider, due to a myriad of problems,i.e., Support, parts, experience, holsters, etc.
And this is just my .02 cents worth.
Best of luck, Ofc.JL
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Old 03-26-2015, 11:19 AM
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Oh, I forgot to mention H&K! Very high quality brand that works well. But 2 huge problems; Price is ridiculous, and unless your name is Jack Bauer, H&K will not talk to you or deal w/ you.
IMHO, anyway.
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Old 03-26-2015, 11:24 AM
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I have the M&P 45 and it has been great with no problems ever. The trigger was not to my liking. I replaced the sear and it now has a nice trigger as well. Glocks are good also and are known to and hold up well in rough conditions.
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Old 03-26-2015, 11:57 AM
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I have experience with several S/A .45ACP platforms, and still own a few. My opinion is based on the fact that I have owned and carried and used revolvers on a daily basis for over 50 years. I am totally programmed to use a handgun in the double action mode. My first choice for daily carry is a revolver, but semi autos have some features that also make them a viable choice for that purpose. The M&P 45 is my choice among all those available. First, it fits my hands and it just feels right when I grip it. It points where I look. It has a more than decent action and trigger pull for it's intended purpose, which is for personal protection at all times. It is not heavy to carry, it holds ten rounds plus one, and an extra mag or two is easily carried and easily loaded if necessary. In my experience, if a handgun does not fit your hand well, allowing the correct access to the trigger with your trigger finger, it is much more difficult to use easily and instinctively, especially when you may be using it under duress. In my case, when I point my M&P 45 at something with a good correct grip on it, the sights are very close to correctly aligned, and I can shoot it very easily and satisfactorily. It has been very reliable in function for me. With the three different grip sizes that are easily changed, you have a good chance of getting a good fit. My M&P semi autos all seem to have less felt recoil when I fire them, and recovery from a shot and firing the next one is as good as any semi auto I've used, and that includes the .45ACP.

Since you are going to be using a bow for your primary hunting weapon, with the handgun as a backup, ease of carry, ease of access, and the ability to get the handgun into action are all important things. You can draw and fire the M&P 45 without doing anything but drawing, aiming, and pressing the trigger. Simple is always good, especially when faced with the need to get some rounds on the way quickly. The .45 ACP is probably not one of the premier hunting rounds, but at the distances you are likely to be using it, it will do as well as any and better than many. The most critical need is for you to be able to deliver one or more rounds quickly and accurately with your choice of backup handgun. You'll have to figure out what's best for you. But it's my considered choice that it would be very hard to choose a semi auto .45ACP that would likely be any better for what you describe.

They don't cost a lot of money, they should stand up well to being carried and used as you describe, and they work! That's my experience and advice for what it's worth! Keep in mind that your ammo choice will be important and that you need to know what ever you choose will feed and function in your handgun without concern. Good luck with your decision, and good hunting!!
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Old 03-26-2015, 04:12 PM
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I have a number of 45's....I love the S&W M&P 45c...everything about is just right!
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Old 03-26-2015, 04:19 PM
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I own two Tanfoglio(Witness) CZ 75 variants in 45 ACP and love them. Jeff Cooper thought a lot of the CZ 75 and choose it for His Bren TEN that tells me something. For me the CZ 75 is the perfect pistol and I grew up on 1911's.
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Old 03-26-2015, 04:47 PM
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Get a Smith 457. You will love it!! I love mine!! They are all over the net for $300 to $400.
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Old 03-26-2015, 05:08 PM
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Bought my M&P45 3yrs ago, second hand, it has been my pistol of choice for IPSC and 3-gun. I have climbed from C class to A class in that time. I have has just ONE failure to feed during all that time using my own reloads. I have 3x 14 round magazines and 2x10round, the latter being bought with the gun. The original tritium sights are still on the gun.
I have tried using my Glock 22 gen 4 but even with the higher capacity magazines I still shoot better with the M&P. I find the target acquisition much easier than the Glock for steels and the action is better for double taps on paper.
Now... having said all that I also shoot these competitions with my 625-2, 'old school'. I love that revolver.... still manage to get into the top 5 in my class with the wheel-gun.
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Old 03-26-2015, 05:53 PM
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I'm am an old guy and I use Buffalo Bore 9mm Luger +P+ PENETRATOR Ammo near 1,300 fps for hogs. I never had to use it but it leaves good looking wound track in dead pigs and I'm confident using in the guns I have.

If I were buying a new gun for backup hunting hogs it would probably be Ruger 101 or 100 with a 3-4 inch barrel so I could take more than 10 or 15% more energy to the fight.

GC
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Old 03-26-2015, 06:11 PM
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I have the M&P .45 ACP that I actually bought because of everyone talking about how comfortable it is and how well it points ... and it's all true!

Also, I have a Sig P250 in .45 ACP. I must admit I bought it only cuz is was pretty inexpensive for a Sig! Turned out to be a terrific gun.

I also have the XDs .45 and it's also excellent.

I recently bought a Kahr CW .45 ACP (and a .40 and a 9mm) and I must admit I haven't noticed the trigger being any better than some other guns I have.

And I have a Colt 1911 .45 ACP that I bought used as a shooter only because I think of it as one of those "must-have" guns ... like a Python, S&W Model 29, and Colt Delta Elite 10mm.
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Old 03-26-2015, 06:23 PM
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45ACP is a very poor choice for a hog gun unless you're not planning to actually use it to put down a hog. As mentioned above, you need a .357.
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Old 03-26-2015, 06:32 PM
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The M&P is the best 45 poly gun for the price your gonna find, but for a hunting sidearm I'd go with 10mm.
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Old 03-26-2015, 07:15 PM
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The only true way to settle the debate is to ask a hog which one he or she prefers to be shot with and go from there. Personally I do not think they will care.
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Old 03-26-2015, 07:33 PM
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An article I saw a couple of months ago suggested 4 different 44mag wheel guns and a 10mm for hog hunting sighting that a hog may not be all you encounter. You want something big and hard hitting in case the critter you encounter has 2 legs and a 5.56 aimed at you.
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Old 03-26-2015, 09:36 PM
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I also live in Texas. I have 2 M&Ps a 45 and a 40. I bought the 45 first. I am well pleased with both. the 45 has never missed a beat over the 1500+ rounds that I have fired through it. That begin said I would go with a 357 or 44 for hogs.
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Old 03-26-2015, 09:39 PM
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I have both the Glock 21sf and the M&P45 fullsize and have run thousands of rounds through each. Both are excellent. I would be happy to carry either as a back up during a hog hunt. I have replaced the M&P sear with the APEX part and it made the stock trigger even better than stock. I think if I could only have one I would take the Glock by a slight margin based on the simplicity of design which makes maintenance better than any other. But then the Smith offers shipping both ways if you ever need service. I would avoid some of the imports you mentioned based on questionable service and lack of aftermarket parts.
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Old 03-27-2015, 12:00 AM
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the eaa witness is made in italy and is a very well made pistol I have 4 guns on one frame all are accurate and trust worthy
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Old 03-27-2015, 03:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colt_saa View Post

Truthfully, I do not want to stake my life on any striker fired semi auto that does not provide a second strike capability. Again just me.
Would you stake your life on a 1911 that does not provide a second strike capability?
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Old 03-27-2015, 03:24 AM
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Nalapombu,
Of the pistols you have called your top two, I have only owned the M&P, not the SAR K2. I have also owned(past tense) a SA XD, and a Glock 21SF. I still own the M&P and it has been flawless through about 1200 rounds. It is/would be my choice. And it's made in America.
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Old 03-27-2015, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 45 acp nut View Post
Would you stake your life on a 1911 that does not provide a second strike capability?
Absolutely a 1911 has second strike capability. Just thumb the hammer and pull the trigger. BOOM second strike

Yes I would not hesitate to stake my life on a 1911.
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:35 AM
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If you are looking for something durable, inexpensive, fairly light weight, and reliable, I'll throw out one no one has mentioned - The Ruger P series .45 pistol.

Grip feel is subjective, but they fit my hand about as well as any non-1911. They usually have smooth triggers on their DA, revolver like pull. And no one can tell me the P series pistols are not reliable. When I was teaching, I qualified many from an agency who issued Ruger P's, and they made some of the "big" names look bad in that respect. Good used ones are around for well under your $$ limit. And yes, they do provide second strike capability.

A .45 ACP for hogs? Never shot one with a .45 ACP, but I have shot several decent sized deer with one, using a hard cast 240 grain SWC bullet at about 950 fps. Thru and thru penetration, and dead were the results. Using a hard cast SWC or WFN bullet really makes a difference in penetration, compared to HP slugs designed for expansion, and they kill quicker than a FMJ RN.

R/E the S&W .45 M&P - Most people like them. I had a compact version. Felt great in my hand, but was not 100% reliable in about 800 rounds of mixed ammo, and not as accurate as I would have liked. Trigger was pretty notchy. Sold it, but still have my Glock version of the .45 plastic fantastic. YRMV...

Larry

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  #41  
Old 03-27-2015, 10:45 AM
MolonLabe75 MolonLabe75 is offline
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I will put in my vote for the M&P45 FS, BUT with two pieces of advice from personal experience:
1. Forget the manual safety -- it's some sort of holdover ... almost a gimme to lure 1911 owners. It's this flimsy, little ambi-toggle, and really is silly IMHO on a striker-fired pistol.

That said, if a thumb safety let's you sleep better at night, be my guest.

2. If it doesn't come with an APEX trigger kit, order one ASAP. Out of the box, the factory S&W trigger was gritty garbage -- sorry, just being honest. I actually had APEX do the install -- like buttah.
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Old 03-27-2015, 10:19 PM
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Default How about grip angle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalapombu View Post
I like the G21 and 41 and the M&P. When all is relatively equal, price is going to decide this match up.

I still wish S&W would make a 5 inch version.

Thanks all.

Nalajr
I prefer the M&P simply because it fits my hand better than the Glock - any Glock. I do not like the Glock grip angle, and I have no intention of retraining my hands and wrists to Gaston Glock's idea of a grip angle. Having said that, though, either one will be a reliable and straight-forward handgun for your intended use.

While you are wishing for a 5" version of the M&P45, I want a M&P10mm.
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Old 03-27-2015, 10:34 PM
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I have a S&W MP45 full size, though I did consider a Glock. The Glock just didn't fit me very well but the MP45 fits like it was custom made for me. I've never had any problems even after more than 1,000 rds. I got mine through Quantico Tactical for less than $500 and then S&W through in a $50 rebate. That aside, I wouldn't hesitate to take it with me on a hunt. It's reliable, rugged, and easy to get back on target.
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Old 03-28-2015, 09:15 AM
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Default natural pointability

I buy my guns by feel. Pick it up and close your eyes. How does it feel in your hand? Does it feel like an extension of your hand/arm? Can you reach all the controls? Does it balance well? Is it comfortable to hold? Then take a shooting stance and point the gun as though you are going to shoot at your target. Now open your eyes. Is it pointing where you thought it should by how it felt? If so, you've got a candidate. Then I go down the list of reliability, parts availability, affordability, etc. But they've got to feel good first!
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Old 03-28-2015, 10:31 AM
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i own and love my G41. i own several of the dreaded G-locks... but have no emotional attachment to any of them. they are a hammer in a tool box. the 41 however is probably my most favorite hand gun these days. my newly purchased 57 mountain gun is 2nd... i like the m&p's, but don't own any. Glocks don't work for many people. i modify the grips on mine to fit my hand better. i'll vote G41... and give honorable mention to the Ruger SR45. nice gun, and Ruger reliable. check it out.

Last edited by getoff; 03-28-2015 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 03-29-2015, 11:29 AM
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G21 gen4 first, with the M&P45 coming in second. But, for feral hog hunting/woods backup in Texas-Glock 20/G40 gen4 10mm hands down.
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Old 04-07-2015, 06:54 PM
Tmatahead Tmatahead is offline
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Default I vote for S&W third Gen SemiAuto's

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Originally Posted by lwr_ View Post
Get a Smith 457. You will love it!! I love mine!! They are all over the net for $300 to $400.
I have a collection of the third gen S&W semi autos. I love them all. Second choice would be Ruger SR45. Ruger's are smooth, durable and accurate. Williams Gunsights has one for $350!
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Old 04-08-2015, 09:25 AM
walkin' trails walkin' trails is offline
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I have an M&P 45 that has gone thru a lot of rounds with no problems. I would recommend it if you want a 45. S&W makes a 14-round mag for this gun, but it sticks out about two inches and spring reliability is iffy. Good news is that Wolff now makes mag springs for the M&P. The G21 is also a solid gun, but I found the M&P packs better. Accuracy is good with me being able to get some three inch groups off hand at 25 yards once in a while.
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Old 04-08-2015, 09:52 AM
Lou_NC Lou_NC is offline
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Given how you're planning to use the pistol, I'd suggest looking at picking up a used Ruger P90 or KP-345.

Don't get me wrong, I love S&W's, although at this time my only S&W semi-autos are a 622 and 4006. I'm more of a S&W revolver fan.

You can pick up either of the Rugers for $400 or less and they're built very well. I'm a big fan of the SA/DA action of the Rugers (I don't use the safety since the first shot is DA just like a DA revolver) so they're ready to go with one in the pipe, yet your follow-up shots are SA for better control.

Just my $0.02

Lou
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