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Old 03-28-2015, 01:54 PM
Gaucho59 Gaucho59 is offline
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Default Potentially dangerous Shield Idiosyncrasy

recently traded in my LC9 for a Shield and now have about 500 rounds thru it. I was at the range today testing out the Mag Guts +1 kit I put in one of the mags (flawless thru 100 rounds and smoother than the stock ones!) and I discovered something that could be a problem, tho it's not really a fault of the gun. I found that using a UpLula loader (awesome product by the way) you could actually load a extra round into the mag. This was true of my stock 7 and 8 rounder as well as the 8 rounder with the +1 kit. With the UpLula, it loaded the extra round without much difficulty and if you aren't counting rounds (which I wasn't) you wouldn't really notice. With the overloaded mags, you could put the mag into the gun, chamber a round, drop the mag and top it off (it's the way I carry, so I always train that way) and reinsert the mag. The overloaded mag would usually (but not always) force the slide slightly out of battery when you tapped it in. It was so slight that I didn't notice until I tried to fire it, which of course didn't work. One time (before I realized what was going on) I loaded a 7 round mag with 8 rounds plus the one in the chamber and it went into battery fine. However, after I fired the 1st round I got a weird double feed type jam and I couldn't drop the mag or clear the jam in the normal way. I had to lock the slide back and fish it out. I think this is only possible using the loader, I don't believe you could load that extra round by hand. With the UpLula tho, it didn't really feel like you were overloading it. It did feel a little stiffer, but that was easily attributable to it being the last round. Once I knew what was going on, I could kinda tell by feel that I was loading a extra round. But from now on, I'll definitely pay close attention to the # of rounds I load when I'm gearing up for carry! Sorry for the long winded post….

Last edited by s&wchad; 03-29-2015 at 05:55 PM. Reason: post restored
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Old 03-28-2015, 03:18 PM
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Gaucho59:
Are you blaming the loader for the extra rd.?

mb
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Old 03-28-2015, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaucho59 View Post
Re-read his first post. He's insinuating that I was a danger to anyone around me in the range. That was an unnecessary assumption and was definitely not the case. As I stated, I've had a number of semi-auto hand guns in the past and never had come across one that would allow an extra round to be loaded. They all stopped accepting rounds when capacity was reached.
I appreciate the info, thanks. I know plenty of older and experienced shooters who could've made this mistake. Especially with a speed loader as quick and easy as that one. Don't let the inter-webs get to you.
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Old 03-28-2015, 03:38 PM
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I found it odd that you could overload your shield mags. Most people have a hard time getting that last round in. So I got out a couple of my 8 rounders and my UpLula speed loader. I couldn't get 9 rounds in either of those mags if I stood on the loader. It makes me wonder about your mags.
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Old 03-28-2015, 04:04 PM
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Thanks for the information. I have a new Shield on the way and ordered extra magazines and a loader for it due to the tales of how hard the magazines are to load. This is good information to have since most people, while I realize not everyone, can be distracted at times when at the range.

I will also be interested to see if I can accomplish what you had done since a poster above had stated he could not do the same with his magazines. It will be a couple of weeks until I get mine in and will try to let you know so if there is something odd going on you can get it checked out.

Thanks again.

Last edited by 326MOD10; 03-28-2015 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 03-28-2015, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaucho59 View Post
I was at the range today testing out the Mag Guts +1 kit I put in one of the mags.
I found that using a UpLula loader (awesome product by the way) you could actually load a extra round into the mag. This was true of my stock 7 and 8 rounder as well as the 8 rounder with the +1 kit.
Okay... It got kinda confusing. With all the different '+1' references.

So in effect, you had:
  • One unmodified Standard (7 round) mag?
  • One unmodified Extended (8 round) mag and
  • one MagGuts modified Exteded (now a 9 round) mag?

Taking the chambered ("+1") round out of the equation, are You saying that using an UpLULA, you can squeeze
  • an 8th round into the Factory (unmodified) Standard mag itself?
  • a 9th round into the Factory (unmodified) Extended mag, and
  • a 10th round into the Extended mag with the MagGuts conversion?
Or did I misread your post?

Everyone complains that they can barely get the 7th round into a standard mag (even with an UpLULA). If you could have someone video you, I'd love to see how you managed to get 1 extra into each of the mags.

I have the MagGuts conversion springs in two of my mags and even with an UpLULA, I can't get more than 8 rounds into the converted Standard mag, or more than 9 rounds into the converted Extended mag.
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Old 03-28-2015, 04:20 PM
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He stated that it only happened with a kit that adds +1 to the magazine, not the factory mag setup. That's how I understood it anyway

Last edited by tbgunner88; 03-28-2015 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 03-28-2015, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbgunner88 View Post
He stated that it only happened with a kit that adds +1 to the magazine, not the factory mag setup. That's how I understood it anyway
He said:

"This was true of my stock 7 and 8 rounder as well as the 8 rounder with the +1 kit. With the UpLula, it loaded the extra round without much difficulty and if you aren't counting rounds (which I wasn't) you wouldn't really notice."

So it sounds like he could squeeze an extra round into the stock mags...I sure can't!!
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Old 03-28-2015, 04:36 PM
Gaucho59 Gaucho59 is offline
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No, it was actually all the mags, factory and the one with the Mag guts kit. All accepted an extra round (8, 9 and 10 total rounds) without any extra "muscling" the rounds in. That's why I posted, thinking it very strange. I'm not that old and I have good hand strength. When I first got my Shield, the range offered me free range time to try it out. I wasn't prepared for that and didn't have my range bag with me (loader is in the bag) but wanted to try it out. I could only manage to get 4 rounds into any of the mags when they were brand new. Went back into the store and no one in there could get any more in either! I knew they were stiff when new, so I just shot those rounds and took it home. After the mags stayed loaded for a couple days, they loaded reasonably well and could be hand loaded after the first range trip. And no, I'm not blaming the loader, gun or mag. Simply pointing out that the extra mechanical advantage gained by using the loader may allow an extra round to be loaded and that added spring tension could cause a dangerous situation if you were carrying it that way. By dangerous, I meant that the gun may not function properly when needed most. I didn't mean to imply that it was dangerous in the sense that you could have a negligent discharge or something like that.
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Old 03-28-2015, 04:44 PM
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That's the opposite of what you usually hear with the shield mags, I know with mine it feels like something is on the verge of breaking getting the last round loaded so I never imagined it possible to add another.
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Old 03-28-2015, 04:55 PM
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I just tried it with mine and it was a no go. Any chance the mag followers had been shortened or perhaps the mag spring shortened at some point in their lives?
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Old 03-28-2015, 05:11 PM
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They are brand new and unmodified. I promise, if I made a video as suggested, there would be nothing to see as loading the "extra" round wouldn't look any different. To the poster who asked about taking the chambered round out of the equation, there wouldn't be a problem in that case. If I put the mag with an extra round into the gun, chambered a round but didn't drop the mag and top it back off, it would be fine. Just like having a topped off mag and one in the chamber. Hope that all makes sense, I know it wordy!
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Old 03-28-2015, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaucho59 View Post
I promise, if I made a video as suggested, there would be nothing to see as loading the "extra" round wouldn't look any different.
For that, I simply meant counting out loud as you loaded each round, so we could see (and hear) you get the 'extra' round into the mag... No Biggie.
Quote:
To the poster who asked about taking the chambered round out of the equation, there wouldn't be a problem in that case.
For that, I simply meant for clarification of the situation in this thread... not for 'Real Life'. In the OP, there were points where I wasn't sure if you were referring to +1 being topped off, or +1 round in the mag due to the MagGuts kit, or just 1 extra in the factory mags (without one in the chamber). It got a little confusing to me (and I guess for a couple others, too).
You cleared that up in your followup reply.

Last edited by RobzGuns; 03-28-2015 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 03-28-2015, 05:41 PM
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Yeah, I think the questions have been cleared up throughout the thread. I would be curious to see if anyone else can duplicate what the op mentioned with their factory shield mags, or if the op had access to another mag to see if he can do the same thing with it.
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Old 03-28-2015, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaucho59 View Post
They are brand new and unmodified. I promise, if I made a video as suggested, there would be nothing to see as loading the "extra" round wouldn't look any different. To the poster who asked about taking the chambered round out of the equation, there wouldn't be a problem in that case. If I put the mag with an extra round into the gun, chambered a round but didn't drop the mag and top it back off, it would be fine. Just like having a topped off mag and one in the chamber. Hope that all makes sense, I know it wordy!
I actually think it might be worth trying someone elses mag in your gun just to see if somehow the upper lips of the mag have gotten bent or were misshapen from the factory. I have two uplulas (I lost one, replaced it, and found the original). I tried it with both of them, still no go. It surely does seem like there might be some room for another on them, but I couldn't get it to go in. I can imagine that the lips of the mag don't have to squeeze too far to fit it.

One other possibility - do your mags say 9mm on the side under the S&W logo? I was wondering if somehow some 40 cal mag parts got mixed in at the mothership. Unlikely, I know, but stranger things have happened. My first M&P 9c came with no striker in it. Yet it had a spent casing with it.
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Old 03-28-2015, 06:20 PM
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Default Thanks for info

Personally I want to thank the Op for taking the time to post this. I'll start counting more closely.

Romo11
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Old 03-28-2015, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbgunner88 View Post
(snip)I would be curious to see if anyone else can duplicate what the op mentioned with their factory shield mags,
I cannot duplicate with factory 7, or 8 rounder, with Uplula.
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Old 03-28-2015, 06:41 PM
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Another "nope". I have one 7rd mag and two 8rd mags for my 9mm Shield, I got the Uplula when I got my full size 9. Unable to put more than the original count in all the mags-unaltered btw.
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Old 03-28-2015, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PROnSHIELD View Post
Perhaps then, the title of this thread should have been...

Potentially dangerous Uplula Idiosyncrasy
Or "Potentially Dangerous Math Issue." For those who don't set out the number of rounds they intend to load in advance, in a row, separate from the box or pile of other rounds, closely inspecting each round before loading, I say "Really?"
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Old 03-28-2015, 09:04 PM
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I really can't add a lot to this thread since I only own 1 automatic, although not a shield. But I can say that I ALWAYS have counted the amount of rounds that I have loaded into the magazine. Call me crazy but isn't this what you usually do?? I can't remember a time where I just kept loading the magazine until there was no room for another round.

Last edited by Jim1392; 03-29-2015 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 03-28-2015, 09:18 PM
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Put me in the "not with mine" column.

I suggest you take your mags apart and check.
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Old 03-28-2015, 11:57 PM
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I've got two 7 round mags and three 8 round ones, all factory. I can't get an extra round in any of them with my UPLuLa no matter what I do. Go figure.
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Old 03-29-2015, 12:34 AM
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I have 10 factory mags. 2x8 and 8x7. Equally used over 3000 rounds fired. I just used my uplula, and was not able to force an extra round in any of them.

Maybe needing an uplula instead of using an uplula is the difference?

Or perhaps the mags have been disassembled and springs are not mounted correctly? Or perhaps time for new springs?

Regardless, as practice, I count the rounds out of the box, and then load them, so I would not normally run into this.
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Old 03-29-2015, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo11 View Post
Personally I want to thank the Op for taking the time to post this. I'll start counting more closely.
Romo11
I thank him also. I just bought my first M&P CORE 40 and being I live in New York State by law I cannot have more than10 rounds in a mag unless you are at an incorporated range or at a competition. So I loaded 4 mags today using the UpLula and the 10th round was a snug fit in all four. No way would an 11th go in. I'm pretty sure S&W just modified their 15 round mags for states like NY and if there was a chance for the Uplula to squeeze in an extra round it would be one of these. In the future as these mags wear in I'll try it again just to be sure. In any case that Uplula sure is a thumb saver with these mags
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:21 AM
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Actually I have similar issue as OP with shield', 9L CORE and XDm 9c - in all I was trying to force an extra round with UpLula, but an extra round is so hard to get in and more important - even harder to get out. if you are not sure if it's an extra round or not - just try to unload (just half way, so the round is still remains in the mag) the last round with your thumb - extra round will be close to impossible to remove. "normal capacity" last round you can slide half way out and move back in with your thumb. YMMV
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Old 03-29-2015, 11:15 AM
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I haven't had a problem with my Uplula for pistols...but the one for 5.56 mags will easily let you put an extra round in a 30rnd mag. I always check that the top round is on the right. If it's on the left, there's an extra.
End of thread creep.
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Old 03-29-2015, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWH321 View Post
I just tried it with mine and it was a no go. Any chance the mag followers had been shortened or perhaps the mag spring shortened at some point in their lives?
Same here. There is no way that 8 rounds will go in the 7-round mag with the UpLula. After round 7, I can only depress it about 1/8". Same with the 8-round. After 8, it's full.
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Old 03-29-2015, 11:45 AM
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It might be interesting if the OP will tell us the number of "coils" and the wire diameter of his mag springs. The factory may have changed spring design or spring supplier.
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Old 03-29-2015, 11:51 AM
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My two mags can't, but my buddies shield that he got NIB had both magazines that were able to accept one extra round. Straight from manufacturer, mags never taken apart.
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Old 03-29-2015, 12:47 PM
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Can't do that with mine. I even tried loading the wrong caliber in a couple mags and that also didn't work very well at all.
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Old 03-29-2015, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macski222 View Post
My two mags can't, but my buddies shield that he got NIB had both magazines that were able to accept one extra round. Straight from manufacturer, mags never taken apart.
How old is your friend's Shield?
The OP said his was Brand New and Unaltered.
Maybe S&W DID change the mag spring specs a bit for the newer Shields.
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Old 03-29-2015, 12:56 PM
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No older than 3 months I would say. Mines about a year old. It very well could be smith attempting to address the stiff mag spring, and over correcting.
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  #33  
Old 03-29-2015, 01:13 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaucho59 View Post
Yeah, thanks for that capt'n obvious. I always count rounds when I'm firing. Never had a gun that you could overload the mag before tho, even with a loader.
Over loading magazines is such a problem that armorer's training for most brands warn against it for a variety of reasons. It is such a problem with Glock magazines that armorers preach that an overloaded Glock magazine can be damaged beyond repair, requiring that the magazine be discarded. In fact, there are many brands for which this is a problem. It is possible, in a variety of brands to, either accidentally or on purpose, load an extra round or two. Just why someone would intentionally do this, thereby reducing reliability of a self-defense firearm, is unclear, but one should guard against it with great care.
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  #34  
Old 03-29-2015, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaucho59 View Post
I recently traded in my LC9 for a Shield and now have about 500 rounds thru it.
Did you trade for a new Shield or a used one?

If it's a used gun, then it's possible the previous owner cut a few coils off the spring in order to fit that last round in more easily. This could make room for an extra round.

For the record, sometimes I count as I load mags and sometimes I don't. In all the mags I've used, for all the different guns, I've never had one that could load an extra round. I've always just loaded them until they didn't accept any more.


Now, about that "dangerous" part, I don't see it. How would an over loaded mag push the slide out of battery? The force vectors are virtually perpendicular. If anything, due to mag angle, it would force the slide forward. I guess I just don't see it. A picture would help.
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Old 03-29-2015, 02:07 PM
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I've had experience with an overloaded Glock 23 mag or two in my time, so I know it's possible. Also, the only loader being used was the one that came with the pistol. I'm with Rastoff about it forcing a pistol out of battery. I'd like to see a picture, because it doesn't seem possible to me. Of course, I've been known to say "Wow, never seen that before . . . " more than once in my life, and I'm sure I'll say it again.
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  #36  
Old 03-29-2015, 03:49 PM
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glad you posted this.
i'm like you, i dont count, when i use the loader...i just go until it's full.
i'll start paying attention now.
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:41 PM
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Gee I don't carry and only put the number of rounds in my mag depending on the size of group I am shooting. I burn up to much ammo everyday to want to empty a full mag each time.
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  #38  
Old 03-29-2015, 05:44 PM
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I'll be back in a minute after I handle some "stuff".
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Old 03-29-2015, 06:00 PM
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My compliments to the OP for two reasons:

First, for posting the topic in the first place and trying to share knowledge of a situation that could be hazardous.

Second, for his excellent handling of some rather shabby treatment and needlessly insulting commentary.

Well done.

I'll reopen this now.
Keep it civil or move along to Glocktalk.
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Old 03-29-2015, 07:49 PM
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I have a new shield 40 and can only get 5 rounds in the 7 mag and 3 in the 6, is this normal and will springs loosen a little?
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  #41  
Old 03-29-2015, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
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I have a new shield 40 and can only get 5 rounds in the 7 mag and 3 in the 6, is this normal and will springs loosen a little?
No, not normal.

Take the mags apart and check to see if the springs are bound up.
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:54 PM
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Thanks Rastoff, I will check
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  #43  
Old 03-29-2015, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
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I have a new shield 40 and can only get 5 rounds in the 7 mag and 3 in the 6, is this normal and will springs loosen a little?

Invest in a UpLula. Your thumbs will thank you....

My Mags on my Shield 9 were real stiff when new and after a couple hundred rounds it will start to loosen up. Just keep shooting and clean/lube the pistol after each time at the range. In addition take the mags apart & clean them too, inside & out, put a toothbrush & some Hoppe's #9 to the plastic follower & get that soot off. It will loosen up in time... Just keep shootin' it!

What you can do to help is load up the mags as best as you can and keep them like that for a few days. Maybe that will help loosen them up faster.

Last edited by CaptRon956; 03-29-2015 at 11:06 PM.
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  #44  
Old 03-29-2015, 11:28 PM
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Default The instruction in a gun.....

I have a Kel Tec P 11 that specifically says it's possible to get an extra round in the mag, but it could potentially cause FTFs. And I think it could over compress the spring so it's a good idea to avoid that even if it's possible.
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Old 03-31-2015, 09:41 PM
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I have the 40 Shield. When new, I could not fully load the magazines. Bought an Uplula. I can now load by hand but the last couple are still somewhat tight. I have three 6 round and three 7 round. None of them will accept an extra round.
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