Got my new Shield in 9mm
Dec 2014 build date.
I shot it great out of the box.
Added A Talon rubber grip.

Those of you that have put the APEX spring kit in, My question is.
Does it really make A noticeable difference in smoothness?

Or should I just run A good amount of rds thru it to see how the trigger smoothes out?

This is going to be my carry gun once I spend more range time with it.

Thanks

If you shoot it well and it's your carry gun, leave it alone. Shoot a thousand rounds and if the trigger is leaving you wanting more, apex will satisfy your needs.

If all you want is to increase smoothness, the Apex striker block is all you need.
The striker block gives you the smooth feeling and does nothing to weight of the trigger pull. The trigger sear reduces the standard trigger pull by a pound or two (I forget the advertised amount).

Congrats on buying one of the best carry pistols ever made.

I agree that all you need is the striker block is all you need. Smooths it up real nice.

BUT at the same time, I don't agree with modifying the trigger system on a carry pistol. S&W made that gun to shoot flawlessly every time. I wouldn't want to mess with that on a gun that might save my life or someone else's life by adding aftermarket parts.

If you were doing some competition with the shield and not going to carry, go right ahead and add something that will make the trigger smoother.

Also, if you did have to defend yourself with that gun, the police WILL confiscate it and they will notice that you modified the trigger system to have a lighter and easier trigger pull. That wouldn't go well in court.


Is it worth it to have a better trigger pull on a carry gun?
Will that bad guy notice a difference in your accuracy?
Will he care that the trigger pull is better?

Anyways. Sorry for ranting.

Just my thoughts on this.

Modify away as you please.

I agree with most of that. But no one has ever showed me a court case where a modified self defense pistol was used against the person defending themselves or others. As far as I know it's never happened. A negligent discharge; that's a different story. Just don't wanna go putting a 2lb hair trigger something you carry.

I have the Apex "kit" in my M&P45 carry pistol. It was a noticeable improvement over the factory parts. I'm pretty spoiled from my 1911s, but the Apex parts were still well worth it. As far as concerns over a modified carry gun go, unless your attorney is trying to claim you didn't mean to shoot the dirtbag, I don't feel that it matters what's in the gun. If said dirtbag makes you shoot him, anything and everything you can do to yourself and your equipment to make you perform better is a good thing.

/rant

There have been such cases, but they are usually the civil cases that follow criminal case. You can still lose plenty tho....

I went through a few thousands rounds in my Shield, and finally putted the Apex parts in. It make the pull slightly lighter, but not to the point where I feel unsafe about it. The pre-travel is still there, which I actually want for my carry pistol.
It wasn't like I wasn't shooting well with the Shield beforehand, but Apex parts makes it even easier.

Just put the carry kit in my Shield and it made a good trigger GREAT!!! Don't be scared. Its called a duty/carry kit for a reason. Worth every penny!

NC

I agree putting the kit in will make it shoot great.
I'm just against modifying critical parts in a gun that could save my life. It's not worth it to "feel better" when pulling the trigger. If you had to use it in self defense, Would you even notice the trigger being different?

Probably not

my opinion, if it's a carry gun.

do not change anything from factory.
for legal reasons.

MSUDawgs knows what's up

I traded in a highly modded Ruger LC9 on my Shield. It had the full Galloway kit, RTK adjustable trigger, Mag disconnect removed, etc. It shot great (tho not as nice as my stock Shield). I read Massad Ayoob's piece on the legal ramifications of these mods (especially removing the Mag Saftey) and it scared me a little. It's not the criminal trial that would be problematic (as long as it was a justifiable defensive shooting) but rather the civil trial that will almost certainly follow. It was a good excuse for me to go trade in the LC9. The stock Shield with a thumb safety and no mag disconnect is a far superior gun IMO.

cheers friend

otherwise you, as some attorneys will state, created a killing machine or some other crazy charge.


that's all just my opinion, after discussing at length with a 2nd Amendment attorney.
his point....dont give them any angle to go after you.

I agree, anything they can go after you with, they will.
It's not worth it!
I could just imagine the questions they would ask if they found my pistol was modified so the trigger can be pulled easier and felt "nicer" when I was putting down a bad guy.

Thanks everyone for the thoughts.
After shooting another 200rds thru the Shield. And from replies here. I have come to the conclusion that I really dont need to go the Apex route.

I have though after A lot of reading and discussions, Decided to pull the safety block and just clean it up A bit.

I have cme to the conclusion that the gritty trigger feel is caused by the block itself.
So i will clean it up A bit and be good to go I feel.

Wise choice bud.

After you shoot the piss out of your shield, you will love it. It breaks in real nice and the trigger feels almost as good as my lc9s.

It's quite accurate too.

If your looking for something to plink with, 9mm, accurate, great trigger, look into a 5906.

Probably the most accurate pistol I have. Almost as accurate as my M9A1

Best of luck with the shield.

Of course, the other side of the coin... If we are really worried about being painted and gun loving vigilantes looking for an excuse to shoot someone, we probably shouldn't be reading all this gun stuff on the inter webs! They will no doubt subpoena your computers and browser history, along with the weapon you used, in any civil trial.

Its not about "feeling better" but about being more accurate and confident in your ability. And I guarantee those "critical parts" from APEX are of a much higher quality than the mass produced S&W variety. Yes I trust them with my life. The thousands and thousands of satisfied APEX customers would echo these sentiments.

I'm still waiting for somebody to show me a court case where this was a factor in a legitimate self defense and not a ND.

Crickets.......

But if its not for you and you are happy with the stock trigger, awesome. Keep shooting and enjoy your Shield and this great freedom we have! Peace!

NC

You're going to be waiting a LOOOOONG time. I've yet to see or hear of one, even in the most progressive of areas. A justified shooting is a justified shooting, under the law. Unless you are a prohibited person, or the firearm you used to justifiably defend yourself was stolen, NFA, etc., there's nothing to come after you for.

That's CRIMINALY; Civil action is a different story and has little, to nothing, to do with the former. The dirtbag that forced you to shoot him could have just been out of jail (for the 3rd time) and have restraining orders against him from every family member he has, but they'll still line up in front of the news van and drop all the now-famous catch phrases. "He was such a good boy", "He was going to go back to school", "He was just getting his life together". It happens so often, that those phrases are now in the Urban Dictionary, citing these exact instances we're discussing here.

The bottom line is: Dirtbags will be dirtbags. Know and follow the laws in your area. Train religiously with your equipment and always remember Col. Cooper's most important rule of gunfighting: "Stretch the rules. Always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose"

Proof of gun modifications used in court (found one!) - THR

Here's one.

You should practice with your gun to make yourself proficient and confident in your ability. Instead of buying something and hoping it makes you shoot better, buy ammo and range time to really improve yourself. I'd be more impressed if you shot good groups with a stock shield instead of a modified one.

Her problem was the shooting was deemed not justified. The altered trigger actually helped her in this case.

- Shooting was un-justified
- Lawyer argued defendant didn't mean to shoot dirtbag
- Trigger job was "crudely done". (Apex's kits have been approved by multiple law enforcement agencies for use in duty weapons. Apex has,or had, a list of these agencies on their webpage)

In my opinion, any one of those 3 reasons disqualifies use of the referenced case as precedent.

hyWould you please be so kind as to provide actual citations to a couple of these cases. Thanks.

do your research I bet you can find a few cases.

I don't need to because I'm not altering my carry gun so i don't need to worry about it.

I bet you can't!!

NC

https://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/gun-modifications

light reading.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...-guns-trigger/

Pure speculation by those who profit by putting legal fears into law abiding gun owners. Funny how the Legal Defense Network fails to site any actual cases of self defense cases, not cops. Situations are clearly different for various legal reasons.. The hypothetical logic is no different than gun grabbers claiming all guns should be banned, or concealed carry should be prohibited because one person "may" use it illegally. The irony is they can actually cite to verified examples. The reading is "light" on actual self defense cases.

Can't what exactly?

I think it all has to do with your state. In MS we have the castle doct and can protect our self and family or anyone else that is in life threatens danger. That's not the case in all states. I doubt it would ever go anywhere in MS but some other states it may not fly so straight.
With current times. People sue for anything and everything. I wouldn't want to give someone an angle to explore.
That's just me and I'm happy w the stock pull on my shield. I've dry fired and shot it enough to know it well.
Again, my prior post we just to show some other "expert" logics behind my thought.

Do what you want or feel comfortable with.

Exactly. Practice with your gun to get more proficient. Instead of putting parts in that you hope will make you shoot better.

It's all about practice

No harm taken. Especially from a fellow Mississippians. That's my state of origin, but have been out now longer than i lived there.

SANTIBANES v. CITY OF TOMBALL, TEX. | Leagle.com - re: Santibanes vs City of Tombull Texas

Of course since this is an officer involved shooting it will be disregarded out of hand by the internet experts.

Modifying your carry piece from the factory is not a good idea. You have to prepare for not only the defense of your life on the street, but also the defense of your life in court.

Studying things like interlimb reflex, subconscious trigger checks, and even "common custom and practice" will help the uniformed be more aware of what the prosecution is going to throw your way.

It would be interesting to see what trigger pull that S&W specifies for concealed carry pieces.

Colt recommends 6lbs minimum if I recall correctly.

best

mqqn

That's a fascinating case, but it doesn't have anything to do with what we're discussing here. Please allow me to elaborate:

Synopsis (for those who don't want to read the whole thing):
Officer stops dirtbags in a pickup. Officer has a ND while exiting his vehicle and hits a dirtbag. Officer's Glock 21 was fitted with a 3.5lb connector, extended slide stop and a modified recoil spring. A Glock Rep. examined the weapon and found that none of the modifications hindered proper functioning of the weapon.

Several issues here:

1) Officer DID NOT intend to shoot dirtbag. On this basis alone, I am of the opinion that this case is not suitable for use as precedent:

2) Officer bailed out of his vehicle and drew his weapon while it was STILL MOVING:

Several things went wrong in this shooting, the least of which (in my opinion) was a lightened trigger pull. The officer attempting to exit the vehicle, (with his finger on the trigger, obviously) while it was still in motion was undoubtedly the main cause of his ND. Ultimately, from what I gathered in the summary, the only "Fault" was found to be with the City, for training Re: proper stop procedures. Other than one brief note with a footnote, the weapon's modifications are never mentioned again. The Officer repeatedly states that he did not intend to shoot dirtbag.

Make of that what you will.

Aside from the fact that this was a cop and not a carry concealed self defense situation, the shooter claimed the shooting was accidental. This is not an intentional self defense shooting by a concealed carry civillian.

Ther is no dispute that modifying a trigger can produce legal issues for a cop or other law enforcement. The question is rather the impact on a carry concealed civillian in an actual self defense shooting. There the modified trigger is irrelevant in a justified shooting. There are no actual cases showing otherwise for many legal reasons which anyone with a basic comprehension of the law would understand.

OP, sorry your thread has devolved into a CCW argument. You all deserve some gun porn, hastily snapped from my phone.



In between a couple friends is my M&P45. As evidenced by the goofed up finish, I carry it nearly every day. Far more than any other pistol I own. To put it bluntly: I beat that thing like a rented mule. It has Dawson Precision sights, grip tape, Apex DCAEK and alloy trigger (pull is right at 4.5lbs but still long compared to the other 2), the magazine safety has been removed and I removed the rear "duck tail" because it poked me in the ribs and didn't do anything for my accuracy. I love that gun. It's the only poly-framed gun I like. I show it affection by letting it take all the abuse I don't want heaped on its two prettier sisters in that picture (and some others).

If you're fine with it as-is, leave it be. I put in the APEX kit because I was spoiled by the Comp kit in my full size. Carry kits in my 40C and Shield .40, wouldn't have it any other way personally.

If you have a modified self defense gun, I'm not saying they're going to throw out the case, I'm simply saying that you will probably go through a lot more questioning and harassment than normal in court. Id rather not be questioned like a criminal.

And just because we can't find any cases, doesn't mean there aren't any.
I sure would hate for me or anyone on here to be the first case where it actually mattered enough for the outcome of the case to be different.

Anyways, keep this argument going, it's interesting.
And we need more gun porn in this thread. I'm in the mood for a picture of a 5906.

Exactly. His modifications made the firearm easier to fire. If it was stock trigger, probably wouldn't have happened.

Wow. This thread took a nose dive.

Anybody remember the OP's original question?

Thanks for all the replies everyone.
I have decided not to do the Apex install.
I did add A Talon rubberized grip, and replaced the front sight with A Dawson FO sight.
I have Dawsons on all my handguns. Old eyes really appreciate the difference.

Ive got A few more range sessions to go with the Shield and it will be in my carry rotation.

And the other poster is correct - I aplologize, Kirk, for continuing the derail.

Enjoy your new piece!

best

mqqn

No problem with the conversation on this thread.
I am a member on A number of forums, I realize how some threads wander.
Key is, I was able to make my decision which is why I posted the threa.
Thanks

I think I will hang around here A bit.

I have a M&P40 and a M&P45 that both have Apex trigger kits in them. I love them and highly recommend them. I CC and I am not worried one bit about the reduced trigger pull.