Will try to make a long story short. I purchased a M&P 40, the first polymer frame pistol I ever owned. I have 6 Smith Revolvers, some are 30 years old and function perfectly. This M&P was a lemon! It jammed from day one, never functioned properly. was told to clean and oil it good as it could have dried out on display at the store. Had my gunsmith go through it, clean and oil it and for about 2 magazines it worked. This is with FACTORY ammo! Finally when my grandson was firing it, the damn thing blew up in his face, the slide flew back and hit a friend of his in the forehead cutting him, and parts went everywhere. He picked everything up, brought it home and accused me of trying to kill him! I sent the gun to Smith & Wesson, and after about 7 weeks I called and spoke to a customer rep. I am supposedly receiving a letter, but haven't as of yet. He said the frame was cracked, but the metallurgy lab determined it was not the pistols fault, but the ammo or a possible misfire jam.(??) They would replace it for $531!! After I got through cursing, I asked him to return my pistol but since it was damaged they could not. I told him I would take that $531 and put a down payment on another Kimber, but I would not have nearly $1300 in a piece of **** Smith. But, apparently I am out $750 and have no pistol. Last one for me and as far as I'm concerned, piss poor service. Happy Holiday

It sounds to me like you need to take this up the ladder a bit. It may be a PIA but contacting someone in management should be next. An obvious question is do you know what kind of ammo was used the day the weapon blew up? If it was factory, in spec, you need to see this through and either get a refund or a replacement M&P.

I really hope this turns out well for you. Please don't give up yet.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

No troll, just very disappointed in the customer service. Like I said, have been a Smith customer since the 70's. Have 2 stainless pistols and 6 revolvers so troll no, disgusted customer, yes and yes, I have the rest of the box of ammo, and I sent them the ammo that was in the gun, but seems like they did not test the ammo. And being called a troll is uncalled for, I just wondered if anyone had any problems like mine. Seems like they have.

Your (understandable) anger needs to be accompanied with more action. Slide coming clean off like that, okay metallurgy was fine, but how is that the whole story on a gun with a lot of plastic? How about polymer-gy? I thought modern guns specifically had design features to stop slides from coming off like that during such failures.

I was a bit hasty and knee-jerky in my response (thinking you were a troll), and upon a few minutes reflection decided to delete my post because it was just un-cool. Sorry you saw it before I deleted it. The board has seen, lately, several folks joining the forum to tell everyone how much of a garbage gun they got from S&W, then they're done. We have a good board and a plethora of great people willing to help and a lot of us rise to defend the board when this happens. I wrongly assumed (you know what assuming does) this was another case of that, and for that I apologize.
Welcome to the forum, it sucks what happened to your gun, but don't throw in the towel yet. I don't think you've talked to the right person at CS yet. Keep trying I'm sure you will be taken care of.

As mentioned, push this up the chain a bit... and specifically inquire if they tested the ammo. If they didn't, ask Why Not and if they weren't going to test it, if they'd send a sample to the ammo company.

Also contact the ammo company (although you apparently sent ALL the ammo to S&W?)
What Brand ammo was it?

This happened with a Shield40 that was using factory MagTech brand ammo early this Year. It was determined that the MagTech ammo was at fault and MagTech cut the guy a check to cover replacement.

Try The ammo manufacture, maybe they'll help.
S&W cannot keep your gun, make a call to them again and demand they return your property.

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John

Hope you have lots of pics of the damage, on the gun, kid's face, etc.

Reloads may do this also

No kidding, pics go a long way in showing us the extent of damage. Not only to show us, but as evidence in whatever claim you're going to make.

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MSP - Retired

Hey bud maybe I misread something. Your gun blew up, S&W offered to replace it (they have no control over the ammo used) and you are angry?

What did you want them to do for you? Why are you out $750??

How old is your grandson (and his buddy)? If my son came to me and told me that the first thing I would ask would be "Did that happen after you jammed the muzzle into the mud screwing around with it." Not saying that's what happened, but if I didn't see it myself, I'd be suspicious. I'm a questioning type. Not trying to accuse your grandson, it's just that I was a Boy Scout leader for 20 years and ........I've seen just about everything that a young man can think up.

Wow. Hope all turns out and you get the problem resolved or a refund. If not you may want to seek legal action as last resort. Please keep us advised

They offered to replace it for $531... not free.

He said they offered to SELL him a replacement for $500+.

There is something missing from your story.

I have seen a lot of guns destroyed by the ammo. I've never seen a slide fly off and strike someone who was not the shooter. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I've just never seen it before.

Which specific model was the gun?
Were you present or were the two by themselves?
Are you sure they were using factory ammo?
Can you post pics of the gun?

I'm sorry to hear of this tragedy. I hope everything works out for you.

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Freedom isn't free.

Yes, but where did the $750 number come from? Did he originally pay only $219 for the gun?

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Freedom isn't free.

I would definitely run it up the latter so high it hurts. Either they stand by there product or they don't.Darn plastic gunsand may i ask where they charge $750 for an M&P?

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thats wicked pissah

I did misread. I thought they offered $531.00

I bought it in Lubbock, TX for $749.95. They offered to sell me a replacement for $531. I do have the rest of the box of ammo they used. My grandson is 20 and his friend is a Marine who was home on leave. They do know what they are doing. I was not with them when it happened, but have no reason to doubt him since he lives with me and has been hunting since he was 6 years old. He owns 7 guns himself. Like I said, I was not there, I have no pictures, they have the gun and the ammo and I have nothing. I called the company I bought it from and they are going to try to help me. At that time, the $749.95 was retail on the gun. I have accepted the fact that it was my fault so I guess you move on. No more plastic for me. I sold a gun on gunbroker and shipped it through the post office, they broke the stock and I had no extra insurance. Out $250 to replace the stock. My John Deere gator I left at the lease for 3 weeks and the mice ate a group of wires on it along with shorting out the fuel pump...total repairs from JohnDeere $1235. Now this, hasn't been my best summer. Also spent a week in the hospital with bacterial pneumonia. Must be a bad dream.

Due to the very serious risk of severe injury or death modern semi automatics have so much reserve strength in the parts that limit the stroke of the slide that it would probably take at least a DOUBLE CHARGE in the ammunition for this particular failure mode to occur. With this is mind and because the OP stated the slide blew off the frame I can only conclude that the cause for this mishap was DEFECTIVE AMMUNITION. No "ifs", "buts", or "maybes" about it jcs152112 had the misfortune to experience what happens when ammunition that is severely overcharge is used and he should quit complaining about poor customer service at S&W and contact whoever made the ammunition he was shooting.

I don't have personal experience with this type of thing but I have heard others experiences with bad ammunition and it is not uncommon for the AMMUNITION manufacturer to work with the firearm manufacturer and compensate you. AKA, ammo dudes buy you a new gun after verifying with the gun manufacturer that their ammunition was indeed to blame.

I would get back on the phone.

Out of curiosity, were either your grandson or his young friend also shooting a 9mm pistol that day?

The reason I ask is that I've seen at least my fair share of people mistakenly load 9mm in .40 mags, and .40 in .45 mags, and then chamber the wrong smaller caliber rounds in the larger caliber pistol. Not hard to hear of shooters ending up experiencing an obstructed bore if a smaller, incorrect cartridge (or empty case) gets inside the chamber/bore, and a subsequent "over pressure event" occurs when another cartridge is chambered/fired.

I've recently seen the results of this sort of unintentional shooter-induced problem, as a matter of fact, when someone didn't realize they'd loaded a .40 in a .45 mag. Yes, there was significant damage to the pistol (but no shooter injury, thankfully).

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

My friends have a part in a 99-year deer "lease", the right to hunt on another's undeveloped property. They have a mobile home and tractor to keep it as they want it for hunting. Yes they do complain about critters (various) eating the insulation off the wiring. I guess the part about "the lease" sounds like them talking on Monday about the problems of the weekend.

No discussion of context, just that the terms ring true to me.

I've seen the same mixup between 9mm and .380, therefore my rule that a 9 and 380 can not be on the same lane where I am involved.

I'm thinking squib load. And if that's the case S&W would be correct in their action.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

You say the slide came off the gun? No offense, but without pictures, I find that really hard to believe.

I've never once ever heard of a slide coming off the frame backwards and hitting someone.

Not just one, but several things would had to have broken for that to happen.

The slide is connected to the frame with the take down lever, which is held in place by the locking block, which is held in place by a roll pin that is driven through solid steel AND polymer.

The front half of the gun would had to have exploded for that to happen, and if it did, whoever was holding that pistol would have no fingers on his hand.

I had a similar experience with a Ruger LCP and Magtech ammo we all agreed that the ammo was at fault Ruger sent me a new LCP with Crimson Trace Laser which was also damaged at no cost to me and Magtech sent me
380 ammo to also cover the cost of the LCP. Ruger claimed no fault which I totally agreed and still sent me the new LCP, Magtech agreed bad ammo and replaced the cost of the LCP with ammo. we all went away happy.

Soooo.... what was the ammo they were using?

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Ban lunatics and criminals

Last post. I came here for help and get nothing but ridicule. He brought me the parts, the ammo,and the busted magazine. Yes, the pneumonia was cultured and proven. It was Winchester USA ammo. Yes, the mice and rats have done it before at the lease. For those of you who are not familiar, in Texas we have private land which we lease for hunting. Therefore there are no unwanted people around, just unwanted critters. I really don't care what any of you think and this will be the last you hear from me. I came for help and as I can read no one is interested in helping. I stated about 4 times what kind of ammo it was and what happened. If you choose not to believe me, then the fact that you call me, my grandson, and a United States marine all liars then that in itself makes the case for me to never visit again. No use in answering this as I won't be back to listen to this dribble. I hope if any of you have a problem that you are sincere about that whomever you go to for advice gives a **** about you and your situation. back to Kimber where I am welcome.

I have the invoice from the store in Lubbock where I paid $749.95 for the pistol. Everything I stated was true. They had only one pistol with them,, that is the only one he did own. I had given it to him for Christmas. He reloads his own 6.8spc for his Rock River and his 270 for his Remington. I have no reason to doubt him. The store is going to help me and I am waiting for another call from Smith after the holiday. Hope everyone has a good Monday.

sorry I was mistake, since someone mentioned Fred's they must know where I live. There is another called Sharpsh****'s I am looking at the invoice where for a b5411 Smith & wesson MP SN#HPW**** they charged me $779.95. Yes, I was a dumb***, but I learned a good lesson. I have pictures of the gun damaged by USPS and received a check for $50 from them today for the damage since it was insured for the $50. It took less than 2 weeks for the US government to settle a claim and after nearly 2 months I am still waiting on another. I am just giving up and considering it a lesson learned. Stay away from plastic. Goodbye again...this time for good!! I will contact the administrator and cancel my membership asap.

You came here for help? How can we help? This forum is not associated with S&W. All you did was complain and bad mouth S&W.

Look at from our point of view. People come here and complain like it's somehow going to do them some good. We never heard so much as a peep from them while they were enjoying their other S&W products! And they never tell us the whole complete story or show us pics. And when the matter is resolved, IF it's resolved, those complainers almost never tell us how it turned out.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Just saying, still not one picture of the damaged pistol after all this debate ??????

Shoot Safe All,
Bill G77

No need to be so hasty. Most catastrophic failures of the sort are ammunition.

The advice to contact the ammo manufacturer is spot on. The response from S&W is what should be expected. They more than anyone know what failures of every type look like in their pistols as well as the likely cause.

Bless your heart.

Sorry you had an issue. Good luck with the Kimbers.

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Take your time, fast. J.Hughes

I can see "maybe" not taking pictures from the range or where ever this occurred. But not a single pic before sending it back to S&W??

Just exactly how are we supposed to help?

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MSP - Retired

Sorry to hear about the M&P, but I am very happy no one was seriously hurt.
I to would think that S&W would have to send the gun back so you could then get in touch with the ammo manufacturer and hopefully the would help you. I would be hacked and maybe also as said take it up the ladder. I am glad I converted my 40 Pro to a 9mm.
Good Luck to you.

These threads are like car wrecks, you know you shouldn't look, but you do.

Just a couple of observations:

A 20 year old WITHOUT a cell phone that doesn't take pictures?

I was at the local range when 2 young guys were firing several different handguns. The fellow who owned the guns, brought his friend-who was in the Marines. The fellow who owned the guns, could at least hit a standard size target at 10 yards; the fellow who was supposed to be a Marine, could barely operate a semi-auto pistol and couldn't hit paper at 10 yards.

I've seen pics of guns that have blown up from some type of ammo malfunction-most here on this Forum. A lot of stories of 40 cal. guns blowing up. That nobody bothered to take any pictures of what happened or of the gun, when things like this can go viral in a matter of hours; sounds a little strange to say the least, to me anyway.

I'm not making any calls on what the OP has presented, some of it just doesn't add up to me. There can be bad ammo, guns can blow up and not all Service men or women know how to use/handle firearms properly.

I would like to know how this turns out, but I doubt that will happen.

OP spends $779.95 on an M&P40c? Doesn't sound right, that's a $400 gun. I suspect someone pulling our chain. My advice? Get a Glock.

Your sku should start with 1 or 2, not b5411. I mentioned Fred's because they tend to be on the high side in prices, since you said you purchased in Lubbock. In post #31 you finally stated that it was Win USA unknown weight. I will ask again was the case damaged? How? Did you have head separation? Have you contacted Winchester? If you believe the S&W did not "test" ammo, I have know idea if they have the ability to do so. I was unfamiliar with the vernacular of "lease", I understand what you mean now. I recommend cats- 20 yrs all the equipment in the barn and never had a problem with mice/rats. As for the gun- I would contact S&W and push it up the chain of command and get them to document that it was ammo not metallurgy, and have them work with you to get Winchester to pay for the pistol. I am not saying you are a liar, just that the facts as presented do not follow what damage should be. Where was the "friend" standing? Photos to follow. Be Safe,

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I BACK OUR BLUE

I just read through this entire thread again. I didn't see any quest for help. I didn't even see a single question from you, only vitriol towards S&W.

Now, I didn't ridicule anyone. I did ask a few questions. You answered a couple of them and I thank you for that.

I would still like to see pics of the gun. That is, assuming you ever come back.


Not exactly. The frame is connected to the slide through the frame rails. The take down lever only prevents the barrel from moving forward off the frame. It's the lock up between the barrel and the frame that keeps the slide on the frame.

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Freedom isn't free.

20 year old with a handgun? Unsupervised by the owner of said gun?

I'm guessing the whole slide flying and hitting a person is probably a piece or chunk. I don't see how a whole slide sill just fly off. Especially to the side. In front is the target, behind is the shooter

I've been thinking of how the slide could come off the back of the frame, and thought I'd run this by you. I don't see any possible way for the slide to come off the frame to the rear if the pistol is assembled correctly. What do you think would happen if the pistol was reassembled without the recoil spring assembly and a round got chambered and fired? Do you think it would be possible for the barrel lug to miss the frame lug? I don't see it happening. I thought about the barrel lug breaking but in that case the RSA would keep the slide from flying off the rear of the frame. I realize it would be difficult to reassemble a M&P without the RSA but I've seen a M16 bolt put in backwards which I would have sworn wasn't possible. I drew the short straw on Armory check in when senior NCO's (E-8's and up) had to do their yearly "familiarizations". And that's how one got turned in. He must have hammered the bolt in with a rock, we couldn't get it out and ended up scrapping the upper.

Enclosed you will see the photos of a Sigma 40F that had partial blowout of the web, ( first 2 fired brass, loaded round, last to had neck blowout in Sigma, and did the damage that was seen on the gun, blew out the mag, broke the base plate. Stung my hand a little, did not tear my leather gloves. The last 2 casings are same ammo fired nearly simultaneously, blew the mag out of an MP full on second shot along with complete head separation. You can see small blowout on first casing. There was no damage to the M&P. The rest of the ammo was put aside,. I was a known reload from a main stream reloader. These were an extra 35-40 rd with 180 gr bullets, my main order was 4K 165 gr bullets. Many of the 180's were opened and powder weight was fine. The brass had been cleaned by a company no longer in business, apparently they were using a chemical that weakened the brass. I was unable to find out what exact chemical it was. S**t happens, it was taken care of, the 4K were reloaded into new brass at no cost. So head separation, 2 successive rounds, no damage to the M&P, mag blow out. The sigma had 6K+ I can document, factory 135 corbons, mild paper loads and everything in between. My conclusion is the Sigma is a good strong platform, and I believe the M&P to be better. OP: Get S&W to work with you, to get a replacement gun from Win. Then sell it. I have a "few" S&W's, but everybody makes mistakes. Your initial presentation just had to many red flags- I should put my phone # here so people could call me, rant, feel better, than we can solve the problem. Good Luck. Be Safe,

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I BACK OUR BLUE

Can't help people who are unwilling to help themselves.
Anyone who prefers to accept a $750 loss and rage on the internet about it instead of following the tons of sensible advice given, all while proclaiming no help was given, is a troll, regardless of whether this story happened or not.

If OP's mission was to slander S&W, a picture would be infinitely more effective than a sobstory.

Gotta admit it's both original and refreshing for the troll to plan on buying a Kimber instead of the usual Glock.

So many things so wrong right from the start with never any mention for HELP from the OP to the highest price anyone has ever paid for a m&p ,even for pro series and not a single photo taken . Trolling could be suspect . Good luck getting a friendlier response on the other s&w forum.

Owner was not there so what really happened is an unknown to him . Good luck with a better response on the other s&w forum .

I have read some interesting fox news comments too !!

Enjoy that 500 round Kimber break-in period. Probably the worst 1911 I've owned was a Kimber.