CORRECTION AND UPDATE at reply #73 in this thread.

I have been posting a series about the saga I have been going through with my Bodyguard (non-laser) 380. I stopped posting after Part 6 because it was getting depressing.

Here's a recap:

Gun #1: Numerous problems, common to this gun, all repaired by S&W except a persistent FTFire issue. All brand-name US ammo, FTFired on most brands occasionally, but most regularly on Wnchester White Box. After four trips back and forth to S&W they replaced it with:

Gun #2: A couple minor glitches, and again the FTFire. Installed Galloway spring and firing pin, made no difference. Started working with a guy from another forum who is well regarded as a BG380 expert, and took the gun apart completely for a thorough inspection. Didn't find anything that could explain the problem.

Against all common sense, I bought a backup gun, #3, to have when #2 was off getting repaired. My wife, who is normally very understanding about these things, said, "So you're buying TWO guns that don't work?!" A little crazy, but I really liked the gun and wanted it to work.

Gun #3, the backup, did the exact same thing. FTFire about 1 out of 10 rounds of Win WB.

Talked with a supervisor at S&W who was very understanding and helpful. He agreed they had been working on this problem, and hinted they thought they were on the path to a solution. I pressed him to tell me what it was and he told me they thought the length of throw of the firing pin might be too short, and they were redesigning it. So I sent gun #2 in to hopefully get it fixed.

Got Gun #2 back from S&W with their typical vague description of what they did. The minor problems were fixed, but the FTFire was the exact same. Called my supervisor connection but he could not confirm whether the new-design firing pin had been installed. Sent it back the second time. Hoped he might look after it personally.

Got Gun #2 back and took it out yesterday. Torture tested it with four brands of ammo, especially Win WB, its nemesis. Ran it hot, fired slow and easy, fast and hard, didn't clean it. After 110 rounds, the gun... wait for it...

...

...

performed PERFECTLY!

I am so pleased with this thing, finally. Despite the six times I had to send two guns back to S&W (not to mention Gun #3 that I still need fixed), S&W has really put the effort into taking care of me without a hassle.

I really like this gun a lot, as it is my EDC. Once you go small, it's hard to go back up to a 9. Next I need to see how it likes +P ammo...

So Gun #3 is going back for hopefully the same treatment, and then I'm selling it.

David

Thank you for posting a follow-up. I really like the Bodyguard, particularly the one like yours without the laser. I must admit that your saga was one of the factors that weighed on my decision to get an LCP for a small pocket gun not long ago. If they have solved the issues, maybe I'll consider a Bodyguard again.

It is also nice to hear that S&W obviously is trying very hard to get their products right and kept at it until you were satisfied.

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Jim - M&P Pro 40L/Shield 40

FINALLY!! I've known from the beginning that my BG380 had either a firing pin that was too short, or a channel that wasn't cut properly.
I've been waiting for years to hear this news. Maybe it's time to send mine in (again) and have it properly repaired. Then I can take out the aftermarket hammerspring with the 12lb+ pull.
Thanks for the update!

__________________
Fight socialism. Never stop.

I hope you do. They are great little guns. You might want to wait a bit until they've had a chance to get the new firing pins through the production system. If that's what actually fixed it. I'm assuming here.

I started with an LCP before I got the BG, and like the BG better because:

- Manual Safety (I know many don't like one, but it's what I'm used to)

- Double Strike Capability (Hopefully I'll never need it again!)

- Better Sights

- Able to handle +P

- It's nicer looking, IMO.

(Trying not to come off as too much of a born-again fan-boy, here!)

David

Thanks for the info, David. I agree with what you said (post number 4) but I have been so disgusted with the two BG380s I have owned I have been seriously considering going back to a Keltec. Maybe I will send my remaining BG380 back one last time and see how it goes. It has just been sitting in a drawer for months without much hope of being used because of the failure to fire problem.

The only ammo my current BG380 is reliable with has been Remington FMJ-RN. I would much prefer to use the Winch. FMJ-FN. It works fine in every other gun I have tried it in, except the BG.

I hope it is reliable as I have been thinking about buying one, even though I do not like DAO. It is the nicest looking pocket gun in .380 I have seen, except the PPK and I already have one of those.

I don't know when you purchased your BGs but I got my no laser model in Feb. and it has been 100% reliable w/FMJ and HP defensive ammo; maybe I got lucky. It has become my EDC and the J frame, carried over 40 years off duty as well as into retirement, went into the safe.

These are great little guns for the average guy just looking for something unobtrusive to protect themselves as well as loved ones.

UPDATE: A couple of months after my initial post my BG started to experience the same problem, especially with WWB ammo. Had a friend who thought he could fix it so I sold it to him and never looked back. It’s a shame b/c I really liked everything about this little gun but anything carried for SD has to be 100%.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

David - No way you have this fixed! You will be so bored now that you don't have anything to scratch the head about! Anyway, CONGRATULATIONS, I am so glad they finally figured it out! Now, with all of us reading your final fix, S&W will get many of them returned for the fix, as rightfully they should get them back! The Bodyguards have given a lot of people, including those with past allegiance to Smith, a "bad taste in their mouth!" If they start fixing those with issues, maybe they might be able to keep some of their faithful followers! Anyway, I am happy for you, start enjoying THEM! - Rick

Can someone please explain firing pin throw?

"Throw" I believe is used as the travel length the firing pin would make in it's operation. "Throw" could be a reference, start (release) to finish (impact at cap).

I am not an engineer, but when David was having problems with light strikes and failures to fire, this would make sense in assuming the firing pin throw (length) was inadequate? ie, not enough to detonate the round...

I could be totally wrong, but I will then stand corrected. - Rick

How do you change firing pin throw? A longer firing pin,
firing pin spring, hammer spring etc.?

I should clarify my use of the word "throw". I'm sure it's not an official engineering term. It's just how I describe the amount the firing pin travels before it is stopped. There is a notch in the firing pin that is stopped by a pin in the slide. This controls how far the firing pin penetrates the primer.

Many talk about "light strikes", or "hard primers", but I started to believe the issue was not that the firing pin was not hitting hard enough, but that it was not penetrating far enough. In other words, you could have a firing fin being hit with the strongest hammer spring out there, but if it was stopped in its travel before it could penetrate deeply enough, it still wouldn't work.

I also measured many fired cartridge cases, and found that the Winchester white box ones were on average several thousandths of an inch shorter than other brands. Perhaps this is what exacerbated the problem with that brand of ammo. I studied a book covering firing pin design, and there is only a few thousandths of an inch difference between a firing pin that doesn't travel far enough, and one that goes too far and pierces the primer.

A lot of this is guesswork. I in no way claim any expertise with this. I don't even remember exactly how S&W described the new firing pin design to me, but I think the "throw" was what was increased, I'm guessing by cutting the stop notch a little longer. So take all of this with a big grain of salt.

I'll inspect and measure my firing pins, the original and the replacement, when I get a chance. (Man, I hate removing that rear sight to get the slide apart!) I'm curious to see if there's a difference.

David

I got the Galloway firing pin, which is a little longer, and it didn't make a difference. So I am guessing it is the design, and the length of the stop notch, that makes a difference.

The Galloway pin, BTW, was too long, and would actually put a tiny dent in the primer when chambering a round. Probably not going to touch it off, but no way was I carrying a gun that would do that.

David

I tried the Galloway firing pin and extra power hammer
spring in my Bodyguard 380 to try and cure the light
strike problem. I would still get an occasional light strike.
I will be sending this firearm back to S&W.

How can you have any confidence in the gun to perform if you need it. Wake up. You have a piece of junk. Time to move on.

Have you even read the information in this thread? It is about how it seems S&W has finally figured out how to make this pistol 100% reliable. You calling it a "piece of junk" makes zero sense. If you have something against this gun, don't buy one. In the meantime, plenty of people are eager to see it succeed.

David

DB, I liked my BG so much, I got a second one. As they say: two is one, and one is none. I carry both, or one BG and one Shield. Never had any problems with their functioning. After gun 3 is fixed, you might want to consider keeping it.

I'm curious, where did you see that it is OK to use +P. There is no standard for .380 +P so how could it be approved?

You're right there's no real +P standard.

S&W in the owner's manual says something to the effect that if you use +P ammunition the gun may wear faster, but unlike other manufacturers, they don't prohibit it.

I'm going to try some Underwood and see what happens.

David

Interesting

Manufacture date on the pistols you had?

Mine was 11-06-2014.

CORRECTION AND UPDATE at reply #73 in this thread.

I finally got a chance to get the new firing pin out of the gun and measured it compared to the original. Quite a difference! I can see why it works consistently now.

The pictures show what I found. I didn't think it would be visible. The new design is the same length, but the stop notch is cut .008" farther back, giving it that much more "throw".

Who would have thought the fix would have been something so simple?

David

So all of the BG owners can pull their FPs and hit it with the old Dermal Tool?

I wouldn't do that. Take off too much and the firing pin travels too far and pierces the primer. Just call S&W and have them send the new version.

David

DB i just messaged you sorry i didnt see this before! This is great news! I wonder when these new pins will be with the BG's? I wonder if I should wait a little longer or go get one today?

I have the original BG WITH the Insight Laser, and I am very pleased with it. It feeds any ammo I load and is accurate.
I won't be shooting any +p though. Don't see the need for it.

__________________
Stay protected my friends.

I have one of each, Insight and CT, and they both eat everything. This FP difference might be the fault of the pin manufacturer's Quality Control. That would explain why a lot of the BG's work great, and some seem to be unfix able.

I wasnt even aware that 380+p existed.

As for the new designs, My BG was built in 2014, what are the chances I already have it? I need to go to the range and see if this is even an issue, so far it has not.

How long does it take SW to send the gun back to you if you ask for these mods? Is it free?

__________________
Smith all the things

I recently traded for a Bodyguard with the CT laser. According to the label on the envelope containing the spent cartridge case, it was made in February of this year. I took it to the range last week and fired about 100 rounds of WW USA, some Hornady Critical Defense and Winchester Silvertip. There were no problems and it worked for its intended purpose. I was surprised at how bright the laser was in strong daylight conditions...I am pleased with it so far.

I've been shopping for a .380 for my wife, and for myself when I need to really work to conceal. I wanted to get the BG, but she didn't like the feel, and then I read about alot of them having light strike issues. She has pretty much settled on a Glock 42(Gotta admit its pretty nice), but with this new info, might just get a BG. Can't beat the price w/ a laser included.

Unfortuantly I just got an email back from Smith&Wesson and they said that they have no new or have any updated version or revision of the firing pin... Now I am confused!

Kevin - Sounds to me like this updated pin is so new that it has not been shared with the CS people we would be speaking with when calling for information. Hopefully David might have some more information! - Rick

I sent off my third BG to S&W Friday. (The one I got the new firing pin installed in was #2. #1 was deemed unfixable by S&W). The CS person I dealt with for the return tag didn't acknowledge that there is a new firing pin, but I just asked for the "new design" pin to be installed.

We'll see if I get the gun back with the new firing pin in it. I am assuming I will. I can't imagine they made a custom modification to mine alone in the previous (#2) gun I sent them.

I am guessing it might be a long time for dealer inventory to turn over to fresh pistols with this new pin, if in fact that is what S&W will be doing. I wish S&W was more public about this whole thing.

David

I sent mine in last week, I hope there really is a fix. Sending it back twice with no change will just about turn me off to Smith.

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Fight socialism. Never stop.

db4570,
looks like you have the .344-.352 numbers flip-flopped on your pics.

It shouldn't take a lot for S&W to make the pin notch longer on the original pin. Why toss the pin when all it needs is a quick .008 mill cut?

I'd try it myself with a round file but only if I was SURE I would get it right, don't want to void my warranty with kitchen table smithing.

Although I have had zero problems with mine (CT Laser - NOV 14) – it's great to hear that SW finally has worked out a fix. I like everything about mine except for that horrendously long trigger pull. I've got to avoid Starbucks for about a month in order to come up with $100 for a Galloway trigger bar plus gunsmith installation.

db4570 - Great graphic!!

Good catch! Thanks.

Here's the correct picture:

I bought a no-laser model from Palmetto several months ago.

Shot it a bunch ~300 rounds of all sorts of .380 ammo.

My only malfunction was a round of TULA, last round in the mag, did not want to climb the feed ramp after the gun was really very dirty.

Everything else ran great.

I completely trust this one - and I have plenty of other guns I could go to if I had any doubts about this one.

I really like the way it fits completely, and securely, in the watch pocket of my jeans.

I'm pretty much anti-pocket-carry, but this works.

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WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?

My experience was the same. found that i had the most problems with the TULA ammo and all other foreign **** ammo like brown/silver bear etc. The bodyguard seems to prefer USA made ammo.(winchester,remington,federal)

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S&W BG380, S&W 915 9mm

During my ordeal with these guns, I did not accept people telling me, "Find an ammo it likes." I believe a defensive pistol should work reliably with any ammo.

BUT, I drew the line at the foreign and steel-case stuff, brands I never heard of. If the gun doesn't like some off-brand cheapo ammo, I can't really blame the gun.

David

You are far more patient than I am, I sold mine within about 30 days and 300 rounds and bought a Ruger LC9, zero problems with it. The BG was unreliable to say the least...

I agree wih David
A defensive pistol should be reliable 100 % of the Time wih any ammo
I am waiting to see if David's other BG that was returned come back with a new firing pin. I am afraid to return my BG, they may make it worse.
I have tried several types of US ammo, they all had issues

Post the serial numbers of your unreliable Bodyguard.380's.

Xxx the last 3 digits if such things worry you.

Mine flat-out works.

Serial number: KBU55xx

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WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?

Imm waiting for them to bring it out as a striker fire like it should have been.

No such plans exist. And you're also asking for a $400 price tag with that.

__________________
Smith all the things

Bought my BG 9/15/2015. First Day put 300 rounds of Magtech fmj through it and had 20 FTFires. nearly 7% failure rate! Singularly the WORST ever on any gun I've owned since 1986. Arrrrgh!! Range Owner owned and carried one, said he had zero problems, continued to say: just need to break it in. He fired through all the 20 misfires, and had one fail (5% rate) a double (actually triple!) strike on that got it to fire. He said S&W would take a look at it, but probably say nothing is wrong with it. So I went with the break-in theory. Another day put another 200 rounds, and just slightly less failure rate. I tried some Sig Sauer Elite Performance jacketed hollow points. The BG seems to LOVE those rounds, zero failures, but at a buck a round I can't really burn through 300 to make sure. On the third day out I went through about 50 rounds of 95 grain Aguila fmj and then the slide jammed full aft! I couldn't get it to come forward until field stripping at home. Arrrrgh! (And when I did, I noticed the screw to the laser housing was loose, too.) So hoping combo of field strip, re-lube and many break-in rounds will work. It's too bad, I did a lot of research and I so I really wanted to love this little gun, but feeling even with the SS elite ammo, it's gonna let me down--can't have that. Also posting to your magazine issue. To be continued......Rich

I don't know how any of this relates to my original post.

Send it back to S&W and get it fixed.

David

David:

I'm glad you have the "bugs" worked out of your pistol(s). I'm amazed at your level of tolerance concerning something that should have functioned without such inherent difficulty from the outset. You, my brother, have the "patience God provided Job"!

I, too, will only carry a firearm that is completely reliable. My live has more value than faith in a corporation. I understand that firearms are machines that can fail, but a new pistol shouldn't be a "by guess and by golly" affair.

Please... run a couple of hundred flawless rounds through these pistols before trusting your life and safety upon their operation.

Thank you.

Your Humble Servant,

Captain O

I am not sure this will accomplish anything but you never know who might be reading this. If they see enough numbers they might take people like me seriously when I send the gun back saying it is utterly unreliable.

FWIW, mine is EAY81xx, has made one return trip to Springfield, and if anything it is less reliable now than when I sent it to them.

Nice little gun - just doesn't work worth a damn.

Either everyone can complain about problems they have had with this gun in the past, or they can just learn from the theme of this thread and send it back to get it fixed once and for all.

David