In reference to Jeff Cooper's conditions, specifically to the 1911 community, condition 1: cocked and locked: it seems an optimum balance of readiness and safety (chambered, cocked, safety on). For me, it makes sense because of the big safety that is easy enough to toggle on the draw.

For my BG, I'm thinking its reason for existence concealed is for very close range, reactive defense (hopefully outside of 15 feet, but not more than that) a short fire-fight, and probably in low-light conditions.

IMHO, the BG 380 safety seems to have too low a profile to fumble with under the influence of adrenaline. So with all that said, my thinking is: Condition 0: chambered, cocked (slide forward after chambering) safety off, inside the front pocket in a pocket holster (Uncle Mike/ Desantis Super Fly equivalent--covering the trigger). to achieve the above.

So for those of you that own and carry concealed the BG 380:

1. How do you carry: (condition 0 or 1 [safety on]) or other?
2. Your thoughts on the matter?
3. Any problems or heard of any carrying condition 0?

Thanks!

Rich

I carry mine in my right rear pocket with an Uncle Goerge's wallet holster, that covers the trigger guard area. Round in the chamber with the safety off. The trigger pull on my BG is heavy enough that I feel having the safety engaged is not necessary. Disengaging it is a tad cumbersome for me and my large hands, anyway.

Hi RJM!

Thank you for the reply!

I agree on both the long, heavy trigger pull the cumbersome safety

I think trying to fumble with this safety would steal valuable time, and I don't even have "large" hands.

And I was really curious about the comfort level of other folks carrying concealed with the striker-fire BG 380 with Saftey ON or OFF.

Also just curious: Does the weapon and holster get in the way when you're sitting down to eat, or driving?

Thank you!

Rich

My no laser model is carried w/a round chambered, safety off, in a pocket holster. Not sure which condition this is.

__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

in pocket safety on, no holster.

__________________
Baby Chief Admirer
SWCA 2870

If you're asking about the rear pocket holster/gun combo, I hardly know it's there. I have worn this gun daily this way for around a year now, sometimes for 12 hours, and I've never felt discomfort. If there is a down side to this, it's not easily accessible when driving, but I can get to it if necessary.

Hi again, RJM!

And thank you for your reply!

Good to know!

thanks!

Rich

Hi Again, Old Cop!

And thank you for your reply!

I'm borrowing from what I understand of Jeff Cooper's codes related to the 1911:

So I'm thinking you're carrying condition zero, so all you have to do is draw and shoot (not having to rack the slide, or dis-engage safety).

From Wikipedia link and except below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper


"...The Modern Technique of the Pistol...

...Cooper favored the Colt M1911 pistol and its variants. There are several conditions of readiness in which such a weapon can be carried. Cooper promulgated most of the following terms:

Condition 4: Chamber empty, empty magazine, hammer down.
Condition 3: Chamber empty, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition 2: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition 1: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety on.
Condition 0: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety off.
The Colonel carried in Condition 1 "Cocked and Locked", and taught the same to others.

Condition 1 is widely referred to as "cocked and locked" and Condition 3 is known as "Israeli carry", where the slide is racked to bring the firearm into condition 0 "Ready to fire"..."

Take Care!

Rich

I voted condition 0 in holster with trigger covered.

Okay, disclaimer: I don't own a Bodyguard, but I do own a Shield with safety and a Ruger LCP. When carrying the Shield (pocket, IWB, OWB or shoulder holster) I flip the safety off once in the holster. The little LCP doesn't have a safety, but has a pocket holster that covers the trigger too.

__________________
Jim - M&P Pro 40L/Shield 40

Hi Jim!

And thank you for your reply and your vote!

For all intents and purposes, the question lends itself to folks with compact weapons, and especially the comfort level of pocket carry.

I chose the BG 380, as I just got one and plan to pocket carry condition 0, and I think that will be my most often carry: so I was curious what other folks were doing; and that's why I chose weapon in the poll .

So, your input is definitely welcome!

I don't own a shield, but also considering a compact 9mm. Both the Shield and Ruger LCPs are on the list, but kind of leaning towards the Sig P938 if I were to get one.

Cheers!

Rich

A few points you may want to consider:

First, the S&W Bodyguard .380 is NOT a striker fired pistol.
It is a conventional double action only pistol. That is why second (third, fourth, etc.) strike capability is available to the user.

Secondly, a Bodyguard .380 CANNOT be carried in condition 0 as there is no way to "cock" the hammer. Its very design prohibits that from happening.

Carrying the Bodyguard .380 with a chambered round and the safety off is analogous to so carrying any conventional DA revolver in a similar fashion.

Why a safety was even put on this pistol is a mystery to me. I suspect that it had something to do with making it meet certain state's specifications.

James

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Hebrews 9:27

RichLucky: Thanks for the explanation. When I carry my M&P .380 I always carry a spare mag somewhere. Once, long ago my duty weapon ran dry during a fight and I never quite forgot how it felt to be out of ammo.

__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Yep, not a striker fired weapon. It is a teeny-tiny hammer, but it does have a hammer and firing pin. If all goes well tomorrow when I shoot it for the first time since getting it back for the second time, I will carry it in a Hunter holster, safety off, round chambered.

__________________
Fight socialism. Never stop.

To each their own. I carry mine confidently in a pocket holster that covers the trigger. Round in the pipe. Safety on. I've been shooting semi auto's (and particularly 1911's) long enough where flipping the safety off as it's presented is somewhat second nature. That said, the safety on my M&P was a bit stiff at first (as was the trigger). It took some working to get it to free up to where I like it.

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Dave

Condition 0 in a pocket holster or using a clip draw. The BG380 is a true DAO with no way to cock the hammer and nothing pre-tensioned. I can't imagine any situation that could accidentally get into the trigger guard and pull a nearly 10 lb. trigger. I don't mind the safety being there, just in case I choose to use it sometime.

i carry my .380 in my back pocket, extra round in the chamber, safety on, in an Uncle George's pocket holster that covers the trigger. it's totally comfortable, prints like a wallet, and with a little practice provides a fast draw.

I carry mine IWB with safety off except when the great grandkids are around ....then the saftey goes on....I have put enough rounds through mine to feel comfortable carrying when I am in low stress areas....then my Shield 40 goes IWB for higher risk areas....you will hear a lot of people say the 380 isn't big enough for carry....I say carry what you are comfortable with.....to each their own

__________________
carpe diem
one day at a time

Hi Jack!

Thank you for your input!

Although one of the few responders that carry that way, I can appreciate it's form.

the BG 380 fits so nice in the pocket without a holster!

Unfortunately, I found the "printing" or outline of it too revealing that way.

I got a Blackhawk #3 pocket holster, which I really liked, but still a lot of outline, plus on the draw, the holster comes up with the weapon.

So I got DeSantis Superfly, which wonderfully creates an I-phone or larger PDA square outline in the pocket, and stays in the pocket with the draw. Although I don't like the mental step of having to slide my fingers between the outer cover and inner holster.

However, I gotta say, neither give the secure, rapid, feel of just having the weapon without a holster in the pocket. And the safety on the BG 380 seems robust enough not to move about.

thank you, again!

Rich

Hi James!

Thank you for your reply!

RE: Striker fired

And thank you for your correction. Indeed, the BG 380 is not striker fired. My old brain let that idea slap onto the BG 380 after seeing so many striker-fired weapons during my research of this and compact 9mms. Not even cleaning up around the hammer after field stripping awakened my brain to this fact. Doh!

So thanks for that.

RE: Conditions

Yeah it's a bit of an admittedly non-seamless translation borrowed from Jeff Cooper's conditions according to Wikepedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper

Extracts below:

Cooper favored the Colt M1911 pistol and its variants. There are several conditions of readiness in which such a weapon can be carried. Cooper promulgated most of the following terms:

Condition 4: Chamber empty, empty magazine, hammer down.
Condition 3: Chamber empty, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition 2: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition 1: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety on.
Condition 0: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety off.
The Colonel carried in Condition 1 "Cocked and Locked", and taught the same to others.

Condition 1 is widely referred to as "cocked and locked" and Condition 3 is known as "Israeli carry", where the slide is racked to bring the firearm into condition 0 "Ready to fire".

This firearm condition system can also be used to refer to other firearm actions, particularly when illustrating the differences between carry modes considered to be safe for various actions. For example, a double-action/single-action firearm is designed to be carried in Condition 2, which is not safe for 1911s[citation needed] without a firing-pin safety catch.

I haven't seen any similar condition codes for DAO semi-automatics, if you have, please be so kind to share.

My intent of translated condition zero, is that it is ready to fire: pull the trigger, and off she goes.

I like you analogy to a revolver, though.

I was really most curious who was carrying with or without a holster, and with or without the safety on. Seems in pocket, holstered, chambered, safety off is the majority answer.

Also, agree with your comments about the safety.

James, thanks for real good input!

Cheers!

Rich

Hi Again, Old Cop!

Thank you for sharing about your experience of running out of ammo. I see ads for pocket magazine holders, and I think "c'mon...like six isn't enough..."

But there you go.

And I can only imagine that once is too many times to have that happen. I can't imagine what a sinking feeling that must have been.

RE: Codes:

Yeah, it is non-seamlessly borrowed from the 1911 posturing, although, as one reader smartly pointed out to me, the double action only nature of the BG 380 makes it behave more like a revolver (after the slide is racked and a round chambered.) which I kind of liked, and then one could argue that is more like condition 2.

Perhaps some clever person will develop and publish an exact condition code for DA semi-automatic pistols.

I assumed most would be carrying with a round chambered, so the real intent of my poll was to see who was carrying with the safety on/off and with or without holstering.

Most readers responded: round chambered, holstered, safety off.

Thank you again for your shared experience!

Rich

Hi RV4 Driver!

Thank you for your reply!

And look at you loading up on all the toys...guns...fast planes....

Well done!

Anyway, yeah, I sit corrected on the striker-fired thing. Dusty brains from researching and researching including a lot of striker fired 380 and 9mm pistols. Don't know how that got associated in there. Getting old!

Hey, I like your holster! Looks good!

I had a simple pocket holster BlackHawk size 3, but bought a DeSantis Superfly for less "printing" or in-pocket weapon profile, plus the DeSantis stays in the pocket much better on the draw.

And I saw your response to the thread "finally reliable."

I forgot that you sent yours back.

I had a failure rate of about 7% fail to fire during the first 200 rounds. I had about 20 rounds with primer strikes, then let the range official shoot them it to see if it was me/my handling technique.

He shot 19/20 successfully. One of the rounds needing a third primer strikes to fire! So that was a less official 5% failure rate.

Disappointed, because I really want to love this gun. It feels great in the hand, and I don't find the kick bad at all.

I'm finding no problem with SigSauer elite performance ammo, after about 50 rounds, but at a buck a round, I'm not motivated to put 300 rounds to find confirm!

Anyway, let me know how your day at the range goes!

And thank you for your input!

Rich

Attached Images

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Hi Dave!

Thank you for your reply.

Yeah, I find the safety a bit stiff on the BG 380, too.

Another reader equated the Double Action Only nature of the BG 380 to that of a revolver with the hammer down, questioning the need for a safety. I kind of like the analogy.

Your continued thoughts?

Take care!

Rich

Hi Ram!

Thank you for your reply.

True enough on both DAO and for the most part, heavy trigger pull.

When using a clip, just curious do you have other items in the same pocket?

Take care,

Rich

Hi Moose!

And thanks for your reply!

Yeah, I had another reader say he preferred back pocket carry and said it was for the most part comfy. His minor exception was having to draw if seated in his car.

I had a #3 blackhawk simple pocket trigger-protected holster, and thought about Uncle Mikes. I bought another, a DeSantis Superfly for the front pocket, and like the way that stays better in the pocket on the draw.

Thank you for your input!

rich

Hi Jim!

And thank you for your reply!

I like everything about your post! Including .380 vs bigger. A dear friend of mine gives me grief about .380 vs 9mm, saying that someday I'm gonna regret not having the stopping power of a 9mm.

I hope that day/event never comes for many reasons!

None the less, I LOVE this video with Jerry Miculek, as he compares standard .380 ball ammo with some newer hollow points, at about 5:20 into the video. (I love his reaction to getting sprayed with cheap orange soda!)

https://youtu.be/bS4p8j87EdA

I think it would really hurt to have a couple of rounds of Hornady churn all those water-laden soft organs around.

And if someone was on PCP, meth, etc., I don't think even a 9mm non-head shot would stop them anyways.

Anyway, thank you for the good post!

Rich

No sir. Even with a clip I won't carry anything in the same pocket at all.

I carry my BG 380 with one in the snout and safety off.
Which holster depends on dress:
Church or Business- Ankle / Shirt Holster
Cargo Shorts - Pocket
Jeans- IWB, Shirt Holster or Back Pocket
All theses have there merits and can be used with my Sig 938 if more firepower is needed.
The only holster I don't use with the 938 is the pocket, it's just too big for a 5'4 138lb man's frame IMO

Conceals completely in the watch pocket of my American made jeans.

I've never used the safety on that gun.
Don't even know if it works.

Always ready to pull the trigger and do its business.

__________________
WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?

Old Cop~
I agree 100%, as I too, ran out of ammo in a firefight and was darned lucky to have gotten away with my life. That will never happen again as I have used up all of my extra lives. The last one used had me laying on the ground with a severed femoral artery. Only very good combat medic training, good luck and the Lord above kept me alive for that fiasco.
As to the Bodyguard 380. I carry the weapon every day, in one of three ways; 1) a pocket holster (not my favorite due to the difficulties of getting the gun out of my pocket, 2) a VersaCarry IWB under my right kidney (it's ok, but no great shakes either), 3) my favorite, a Blackhawk IWB holster. I like this the best because it is very easy to access the weapon and it conceals it very well. I am a relatively tall guy at 6'3" and weigh about 165#, so I can't conceal any 9mm handgun without drawing undue attention. I have had the Bodyguard 380 for a bit over a year and have run around 1000 rounds through it of varying brands of ammo and have yet to have it fail under any circumstance. I do have the Crimson Trace laser model. My thinking was that most situations that would require drawing the weapon would be low to no light and the fact that someone was holding a gun with a laser pointed at my center mass would certainly discourage me from pursuing things further. In other words, I'd rather not have to shoot someone else, if I can help it. Leaving the emotional part of shooting someone out of the equation for the moment, the amount of paperwork, the need for dealing with the police powers that be and the district attorney's office alone are enough to make you wish to God you'd never pulled the trigger. So the laser might be enough to get you out of a bad situation.
As to the condition that I carry the gun, it's simple, I keep a round chambered and the safety mostly on. The safety is a simple flip of my right thumb, but honestly, I rarely leave it on just because you have to be extremely deliberate to pull that incredibly long trigger on the double action only Bodyguard to make it go "pew", LOL! Considering that, I think carrying the BG with a round chambered is by no means unsafe, as long as you know what you are doing and don't ever play stupid games with a loaded firearm. If you do things like that, you shouldn't be carrying a loaded gun in the first place, because you are a danger to yourself and everyone around you.
To sum it up, I agree with old Cop. Also, I'm a security professional, I get paid to teach companies how to keep their businesses and employees safe. Safe from cyber attacks that start with some turncoat in their company, whether the person is acting out of a chance at a fat pay day by sharing their company's intellectual property or an employee or ex-employee who comes back looking for revenge at the point of a gun. Not to get too deep into my business but between 2009 to 2015 there were 133 mass shootings in companies in the USA. Also, 78% of all employee injuries are caused by other employees and 2 million employees are victims of employee violence every year. Those are OSHA numbers by the way, not mine. Employee violence is on the uptick and I think everyone deserves the chance to protect themselves under their 2nd Amendment rights. Under those kinds of conditions, I think the Smith & Wesson M&P Bodyguard 380 is a perfect defensive weapon and one that I recommend to clients all the time. Even people who have never been around guns can be trained to use this handgun because it is simple to operate, it is easily concealed and if the rest of Smith & Wesson's production of them is at all like mine, it was perfect right out of the box, it's really a gun that I will support time and again. The gun is accurate, I saw Jerry Miculek walk a .380 round on to a target 200 yards away! 200 yards with a .380! See for yourself: I think it's an amazing gun for the price that it's sold at and Smith & Wesson should be very proud to have produced such an amazing piece of shooting technology. Geez, I rambled on ... sorry. Enjoy your Bodyguard and safe shooting to you all!