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  #1  
Old 11-23-2015, 11:56 PM
lplatta lplatta is offline
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Default Still getting light primer strikes with APEX

Having a couple of M&P 9's. I have APEX kits in both. In my Pro I have all the cool stuff. FSS and flat faced trigger, supposed to be the best. In my standard 9 I have the carry kit. What a waste of money on the fancy **** from Apex. If you can't trust the gun to fire what is the point? The standard 9 never a problem, the pro, sucks. Only difference is the $150. wasted on what should be the best there is. Misfires... Ordered extra heavy striker spring and still misfired. Anybody else have this problem? Anyone want to buy a Apex flat trigger and forward set sear kit cheap? I am going back to stock, at least the gun went bang every time.
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Old 11-24-2015, 12:29 AM
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Who put your FSS kit in? What ammo are you using?
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:16 PM
lplatta lplatta is offline
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I installed the kit myself. Have been pistol smithing for 30+years. Have tried many brands of ammo and reloads. Same light strike problem. About one per magazine. Have another M&P that functions flawlessly. Only difference is FSS and flat faced trigger.
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:21 PM
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Perhaps Apex can help......do they respond to customer inquiries and problems?
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:34 PM
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Can you explain how any of the Apex parts are causing light strikes?
Striker is fully cocked, it gets released, what's robbing the striker of force?
Sear tipping too much so the striker rubs on the sear half that's in front of the pivot point? With slide off, does pulling the trigger bring the horizontal surface of the sear past 180 degrees (tilting sear further than necessary)? That's my guess, being a forward set sear and all, must mean increased overtravel = more/too much sear movement. Maybe a loop adjustment is all you need. Maybe firing pin block rubbing as well.
I'm not an experienced pistolsmith, please share your experienced thoughts.

Last edited by McE; 11-24-2015 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 11-24-2015, 02:39 PM
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Look at Apex's videos regarding trigger bar timing adjustment. What can happen is that the loop releases the striker before the striker block is completely out of the way. This will slow down the striker sufficiently to cause intermittent light strikes. I've had to make this adjustment on all of my pistols with Apex FSS kits in them. My fix was to close the loop down, delaying the striker release relative to the movement of the bar that pushes the striker block out of the way.
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Old 11-25-2015, 02:37 PM
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I had light off-center strikes after installing my Apex polymer FSS kit, but it turned out to be a combination of worn out recoil spring and crud build-up in the extractor cavity. I had over 20,000 rounds by the time I installed the Apex parts and it was by coincidence that the light strikes started happening just after the Apex installation.

I know it's tough to check, but if you are getting very regular light strikes (once per mag as you said). Go through a magazine or two and just before pulling the trigger, use your thumbs to push the slide forward on each shot. One of the symptoms of the slide not going 100% forward is a light off center strike. The problem is when the striker hits, it drives the slide fully closed so you never know that it wasn't fully forward.

If the extractor hook is full of sooty build up and/or the extractor cavity is gunked up, the case head will have a difficult time riding under the extractor hook and that resistance can prevent the slide from going fully forward.

I assume your striker cavity and spring/guide are clean. That would be another cause of a light strikes.
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Old 11-25-2015, 06:33 PM
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Call or email Apex. They can and will help.
There are too many of us that have had outstanding results with their parts and customer service to let this one slide.
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Old 11-26-2015, 12:30 PM
lplatta lplatta is offline
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Thanks to all who replied. Apex was no help. Called, emailed, Very poor customer service.

The slide always goes fully into battery.
I purchased a Extra Power striker spring. Still had the problem.
The sear does not go past 180. I put some coating on the sear to determine if it was rubbing on the striker. No rub marks.
I am working on the timing to determine if the striker block is in anyway impeding the striker.

Thanks again guys. I'll keep working on this Apex headache.
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  #10  
Old 11-26-2015, 12:34 PM
Dandecoteau Dandecoteau is offline
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I have a fix for your problem!
Take out that worthless apex ****.
S&W makes fine pistols to begin with!
Don't mess with **** and you wouldn't have problems like this.

Just my opinion
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Old 11-26-2015, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lplatta View Post
Thanks to all who replied. Apex was no help. Called, emailed, Very poor customer service.

The slide always goes fully into battery.
I purchased a Extra Power striker spring. Still had the problem.
The sear does not go past 180. I put some coating on the sear to determine if it was rubbing on the striker. No rub marks.
I am working on the timing to determine if the striker block is in anyway impeding the striker.

Thanks again guys. I'll keep working on this Apex headache.
One way to determine if the striker block is the problem is to take it (and it's spring) out, then shoot it and see if the problem is still there. If it has gone away, then you need to work on the timing. If not, then it's something else. (just remember to put the striker block back in )
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Old 11-27-2015, 08:24 PM
lplatta lplatta is offline
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Default You got that right!!

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Originally Posted by Dandecoteau View Post
I have a fix for your problem!
Take out that worthless apex ****.
S&W makes fine pistols to begin with!
Don't mess with **** and you wouldn't have problems like this.

Just my opinion
I agree. What a waste of money..
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Old 11-27-2015, 08:32 PM
lplatta lplatta is offline
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Default Apex ****

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Originally Posted by Bkreutz View Post
One way to determine if the striker block is the problem is to take it (and it's spring) out, then shoot it and see if the problem is still there. If it has gone away, then you need to work on the timing. If not, then it's something else. (just remember to put the striker block back in )
It is a timing problem. How on earth do you make the striker block come clear before the sear lets go?? If I adjust the "candy cane" to wait then the sear isn't clear so I get a light strike. If I adjust it the other way a bit, it won't even strike at all. *** Apex kit. I should have stuck with the standard comp kit. At least it worked.
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Old 11-27-2015, 08:38 PM
lplatta lplatta is offline
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Default No middle ground.

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Originally Posted by Bkreutz View Post
Look at Apex's videos regarding trigger bar timing adjustment. What can happen is that the loop releases the striker before the striker block is completely out of the way. This will slow down the striker sufficiently to cause intermittent light strikes. I've had to make this adjustment on all of my pistols with Apex FSS kits in them. My fix was to close the loop down, delaying the striker release relative to the movement of the bar that pushes the striker block out of the way.
What if it can't be both ways? On one side, Not enough to move the sear out of the way. On the other, not enough to lift the striker block.. Now what? I guess throw away the *** FSS and flat faced and go back to a pistol that worked flawlessly. Man, I miss my M&P pro...
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Old 11-27-2015, 08:44 PM
lplatta lplatta is offline
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Default APEX is no help.

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Originally Posted by armorer951 View Post
Perhaps Apex can help......do they respond to customer inquiries and problems?
They don't. I've called, twice. Got someone who reads off of "cue cards" I guess I need to speak to a real pistolsmith at this stage...duh. They said that armorer would email or call me... never did. I emailed and received no response either. I guess they got my money and that's good with them.
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Old 11-27-2015, 08:54 PM
Dandecoteau Dandecoteau is offline
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TAKE OUT THAT WORTHLESS APEX ****.

Problem solved.
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Old 11-27-2015, 11:45 PM
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Of course it's a problem with the Apex parts. Couldn't possibly be with the installation, could it? I've got a cumulative 100K+ rounds on Apex FSS kits in a couple of M&P's. Other than breaking the aluminum FF trigger in my Open gun (which Apex replaced, but did tell me I should start thinking of that part as a "consumable" when shooting major PF ammo) I have no complaints about the parts.

The one below has over 40K rounds through it.
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Old 11-28-2015, 06:15 AM
MKE.guns MKE.guns is offline
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What about sending the gun into Apex? I had issues with my M&P CORE after install and Randy fixed it up perfectly. Turned out do be a problem with the hole the striker block fits into. Nothing I could have diagnosed or fixed on my own. Randy and Apex did right by me 100%

MKE

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Old 11-28-2015, 07:11 AM
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The only Apex I've used is their competition sear kit, but I use the factory striker spring, as it is stronger. Everything works as it should.
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Old 11-28-2015, 09:22 AM
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I have Apex kits installed on four M&P's. I had experienced an occasional light strike but was unsure if it was gun or ammo-related.

While installing a set of night sights on my 9C I removed and inspected the striker block. I found it had been badly peened by the striker. This was evidently due to not being completely out of the way when the striker was released (late timing).

My solution was to reinstall the original striker block. Prior to doing so I chucked it in a drill motor and polished it with emery cloth. I also used a round stone to ensure the striker block channel was free of burrs.

The factory striker block has a flatter profile than the Apex version, which allows it to be fully lifted earlier in the firing sequence. My polishing was just enough to break the sharp edges of the block. I did reuse the Apex striker block spring rather than reinstall the factory one.

I also polished the cam on the trigger bar that lifts the striker block just enough to remove the tool marks. The end result is a trigger that is both smooth in operation and reliable.

After completing the 9C I inspected the Apex strikers on the other three pistols and found similar peening. I reinstalled the original striker blocks on these as well.
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Old 11-28-2015, 10:02 AM
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"Somewhere I read a comment that suggested removing the striker block and seeing if that would cure the problem. So I did and it did! Fired about 70 rounds through it today without a single misfire.

It appears I have a 'timing issue' with the 'candy cane' portion of the trigger bar; the part that pushes on the sear to cause it to disengage the striker. The striker was being released before the striker block had been completely raised. That allowed the block to drag on the striker and prevent a full force strike on the primer.

So, I'll reduce the height of the 'candy cane' until proper functioning returns. That will delay the sear release a bit giving the striker block a little more time to get out of the way.

My pistol is set up with an APEX FSS and Aluminium trigger. It was working just fine so I'll have to explore what caused it to malfunction. Perhaps the portion of the trigger bar that rubs against and pushes up the striker block has worn just a bit? Maybe I should apply some Kasenit to it??"


The above is a quote from another thread about this problem. I would only add that I used a feeler gage to verify the amount of change I was actually producing each time I adjusted the 'candy cane' loop. Proper adjustment solved the problem.
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Old 11-29-2015, 01:50 PM
lplatta lplatta is offline
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Default Of course it the Apex parts!

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Originally Posted by Bkreutz View Post
Of course it's a problem with the Apex parts. Couldn't possibly be with the installation, could it? I've got a cumulative 100K+ rounds on Apex FSS kits in a couple of M&P's. Other than breaking the aluminum FF trigger in my Open gun (which Apex replaced, but did tell me I should start thinking of that part as a "consumable" when shooting major PF ammo) I have no complaints about the parts.

The one below has over 40K rounds through it.
All things being equal, only thing that changed were the parts installed in the gun. I guess you got lucky and I didn't. A consumable trigger? really? This FSS and flat faced needs a bit more engineering I think. Can't get the striker block and the sear release timed...at all. Good thing I have another M&P for matches. Can't trust the APEX trigger.
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Old 11-30-2015, 07:54 PM
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I am very happy with the Apex FSS and aluminum trigger kit I installed in my FS M&P 9mm. I didn't have any trouble installing mine other than having to modify the sear housing block, which I knew I would have to do. I didn't even have to adjust the loop. Seems like there are a lot of people happy with Apex and just a few dissatisfied customers. Can't make everyone happy.
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Old 11-30-2015, 11:21 PM
rsrocket1 rsrocket1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lplatta View Post
A consumable trigger? really?
40,000 rounds at $0.06/round (cast bullets and reloading yourself) = $2,400 way more if using plated bullets or retail loads.

I'd say buying a new trigger after $2400 worth of ammo is insignificant. I've gone through over 30k rounds with my M&P 40 and although I see very little wear on it, my thoughts are that I've easily gotten my money's worth out of this gun.
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Old 11-21-2016, 02:30 PM
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I have an APEX spring kit installed on my S&W SD40 and the trigger is smooth and ideal to shoot. It has a really bad trigger before I installed the Apex kit. I had the spring kit installed by a gun smith and did not try to do it myself. It cost $100 to get the gun smith to do it, so with the cost of the kit, I guess I may have well bought a Walther that comes with a 5.5 pound trigger. Or a Bersa that comes with a 3.9 lb trigger. But the SD S&W gun is now great to shoot.
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Old 11-21-2016, 04:40 PM
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I have full apex kits on three guns, have shot around 500 rnds on each and still haven't had any issues.
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Old 11-21-2016, 05:34 PM
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I have full apex kits on three guns, have shot around 500 rnds on each and still haven't had any issues.
Same here, my latest being installed in a 45c that I carry every day. In the past I have E-mailed Apex twice and called once, and in all cases their response has been excellent.

Have you checked how far your firing pin protrudes from the breech face? Are the cases that do fire have good indentations on the primer? It's possible your problem has nothing to do with Apex parts. I had to replace my striker in my 9c after 5 years of use for almost the same problem.

If Apex produced inferior products they wouldn't have stayed in business this long. They make a great products.
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Old 11-21-2016, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lplatta View Post
All things being equal, only thing that changed were the parts installed in the gun. I guess you got lucky and I didn't. A consumable trigger? really? This FSS and flat faced needs a bit more engineering I think. Can't get the striker block and the sear release timed...at all. Good thing I have another M&P for matches. Can't trust the APEX trigger.
lplatta,

Based on what I'm reading here, you're having some trouble with one of our kits and you're not satisfied with the level of Customer Service you've received, for that I apologize.

Can you email your real name to me at [email protected] so I can look into the CS notes on your calls and assess the issue?

In most cases when a customer is getting light strikes, it's caused by a striker block timing issue, but there are other things our CS staff will try to assess with you.

When did you call for assistance? We've been in the process of moving from CA to AZ for the past few weeks and it's entirely possible the contact request got lost in the shuffle.

I hope we can get your gun up and running as soon as possible.

Scott @ Apex
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Old 11-21-2016, 05:43 PM
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Lee in Quartzsite Lee in Quartzsite is offline
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Just noticed the OP made his complaint on 11-23-2015! That's almost a year ago so hopefully he solved his problem. Why do these OLD threads regenerate and get everybody all worked up!

Hey Scott, where in AZ are you moving? Welcome to Arizona and America! I never realized how oppressed I was living in CA for most of my life until I began to enjoy freedom once again in Arizona!
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Old 11-21-2016, 05:44 PM
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Hi Lee, We relocated the company to Peoria, AZ.
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Old 11-21-2016, 06:29 PM
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The OP hasn't posted in nearly a year. All 20 of his posts were input within about a 1 month period and they were all venting/complaining. I would be surprised if he is still around. BTW, I still love my Apex FSS and trigger kit!

Last edited by 427mach1; 11-21-2016 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 11-25-2016, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee in Quartzsite View Post
Just noticed the OP made his complaint on 11-23-2015! That's almost a year ago so hopefully he solved his problem. Why do these OLD threads regenerate and get everybody all worked up!
I agree. Read all the way through this thread to here only to discover it is a year old. Pls people, pay attention when something shows up in a search.
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:09 PM
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I installed the Apex FSS and aluminum trigger on a well worn LE trade-trade in MP40 (2006 manufacture) I just acquired. First I replaced the sear assembly housing with a new one from Brownells with the larger sear spring and plunger. I had to open up the trigger bar loop to get the sear to release the striker, and like others got light strikes (it was fine before the Apex installation). I closed up the loop as much as I could and still get striker release but I still got light strikes. I emailed Apex, and they were great! Jon got back to me next day requesting some photos. The morning after I sent the photos he responded with a detailed analysis, annotation of my photos, and recommendations. The trigger bar had wear on the loop and the surface that engages the striker block. He recommended replacement with the H trigger bar, and replacement of the striker which also had wear on striker block engagement surface. I replaced the trigger bar and striker with new parts, and no more light strikes. I couldn't be more pleased with the quality and performance of the Apex parts, and the outstanding customer service.
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Old 05-22-2017, 05:20 PM
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No offense to anyone but I don't mind old threads. I am new to this forum and new owner of the MP9 (Pro Series CORE). I don't do searches most times, rather just read the forums to learn about my guns.

I especially liked this one as I am going to be installing APEX parts in my gun later this week. This thead ID'd a problem (light strikes by OP) and contained two solutions. One was a reply from APEX with a name and email addie and then the other provided a solution posted by 'oldgray'.

So, old threads getting bumped help new guy members like me and new owners like me. Peace, lg
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:59 AM
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I find the old threads very handy too when it comes to researching problems.

I fitted a FSS and trigger kit to my 9mm CORE a few months ago and have recently begun getting FTF issues from what I think are light primer strikes, I had 3 today out of 200 rounds, although to be honest they don't look that light to me! Unfortunately, here in Australia handgun owner are few and far between so I haven't got anyone to compare them to!

I noticed some peening on the striker where I believe it has been hitting the striker block so I have adjusted the trigger bar loop gap down to .010 to make sure the striker block is out of the way. Based on what I've read in this forum, .010 gap seems a lot smaller than most other people seem to be using.

I'm wondering though whether it may be an ammunition issue as it is very sporadic. Wouldn't it happen more often if it was a gun issue? I'm reloading so maybe some of the primers are not seating properly even though they look OK.

My striker


New striker




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Old 06-08-2017, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Capt Hollywood View Post
I find the old threads very handy too when it comes to researching problems.

I fitted a FSS and trigger kit to my 9mm CORE a few months ago and have recently begun getting FTF issues from what I think are light primer strikes, I had 3 today out of 200 rounds, although to be honest they don't look that light to me! Unfortunately, here in Australia handgun owner are few and far between so I haven't got anyone to compare them to!

I noticed some peening on the striker where I believe it has been hitting the striker block so I have adjusted the trigger bar loop gap down to .010 to make sure the striker block is out of the way. Based on what I've read in this forum, .010 gap seems a lot smaller than most other people seem to be using.

I'm wondering though whether it may be an ammunition issue as it is very sporadic. Wouldn't it happen more often if it was a gun issue? I'm reloading so maybe some of the primers are not seating properly even though they look OK.

My striker


New striker




If you put the non firing rounds in the gun a second time and they fire, it's probably (99%) due to high primers. (at least that's been my experience). I've gotten into a different routine handloading on my 650, I seat the primers twice (two forward strokes). I haven't had a light strike in over a year and a half and I shoot 2 matches a week plus practice time. Before I started doing this, I'd get a light strike per month (doesn't seem like much, but it really screws up a match score). Good luck
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Old 06-08-2017, 01:20 AM
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Thanks for the info Bkreutz. I'm using a Lee Pro 1000, (can't afford the Dillon just yet!). Maybe I'll try hand priming each case to see if I can isolate the problem. They have always fired successfully when I put them back in.

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Old 06-08-2017, 07:57 AM
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Default Light strikes

Agree that the "light-strike" problem is ammo ( specifically primer) related. I own 2 .380's; a Kahr P380, and a Bodyguard. Both pistols suffered light strikes until I switched from shooting foreign hardball to Remington, Winchester, Federal, or Hornady JHP ammo. Problem solved. I have been using nothing but Hornady American Gunner for a year and both pistols have well over 400 rounds of the Hornady with zero problems
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Old 06-08-2017, 11:15 AM
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Appreciate the feedback. Whilst the ammo suggestion does make sense, the problem is I must have put several thousand reloads through it after installing the Apex kit without any problems until a couple of months ago when the light primer strikes started.

You can see in the pic that the striker shows evidence of hitting the striker block, in fact it has peened over the top edge on the side of the striker making it ever so slightly taller. I'm wondering if, over time, as the peened over edge got worse, it has started to contact the striker block even more and cause the issue. With the FSS, the timing between moving the striker block out of the way and then releasing the striker seems very fine.

I've replaced the striker tonight after 8000rds and countless dry fires (And after waiting four weeks to get one from the US!) and have also set the trigger bar gap to .008". I'm a little concerned that with such a small trigger bar gap the sear isn't moving down very far at all. It is releasing the striker every time though, even when I push the slide down on the top of the slide, so I'm assuming it's far enough.

I'll go and put a couple of hundred rounds through it tomorrow and see what happens!

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Old 09-04-2017, 08:38 PM
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How do,you adjust the height?
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:28 AM
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I gave 5 m&p's with apex kits . Never once a misfire or light strike. However I roll my own. I'm going with ammo on this one , or FSS install if it fired ok before the installation of the FSS kit there's your problem.
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Old 10-22-2017, 09:48 AM
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So I had a bit of a 'Eureka' moment today.

For the last six months or so I've been getting the occasional light primer strike when using my 9mm M&P, probably averaging about 5% of my rounds and it was only with my reloads from my Lee Pro1000. It was annoying the hell out of me. I'd tried everything, different primers, isolated various case brands, double checked the primers were seated correctly, checked my press was working as it should be, etc. I believed it was my reloads as it never happened with factory ammo.

Well I bought a case gauge this week and think I may have discovered the issue, check out the pics. For whatever reason, about 40% of my reloads look like the rounds in the three rows on the left of the case gauge, the two rows on the right are factory ammo. Once I run them through a resizing die they're fine but I think this may be causing my light prime strike issue. The M&P will fire when the slide isn't quite all the way forward, so if these rounds are causing the slide to sit slightly out of battery, then when the striker fires, it's hitting the round and pushing it forward and some of the striker energy is absorbed by the round moving forward instead of all the energy being put into the primer. Much the same as when you have a primer seated high.

I'm off to the range this week to see if the issue is resolved!


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Old 10-22-2017, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dandecoteau View Post
TAKE OUT THAT WORTHLESS APEX ****.

Problem solved.
Wrong. Problem avoided.. Fix whatever makes it NOT function properly with tried and true parts.
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  #44  
Old 10-22-2017, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Hollywood View Post
So I had a bit of a 'Eureka' moment today.

For the last six months or so I've been getting the occasional light primer strike when using my 9mm M&P, probably averaging about 5% of my rounds and it was only with my reloads from my Lee Pro1000. It was annoying the hell out of me. I'd tried everything, different primers, isolated various case brands, double checked the primers were seated correctly, checked my press was working as it should be, etc. I believed it was my reloads as it never happened with factory ammo.

Well I bought a case gauge this week and think I may have discovered the issue, check out the pics. For whatever reason, about 40% of my reloads look like the rounds in the three rows on the left of the case gauge, the two rows on the right are factory ammo. Once I run them through a resizing die they're fine but I think this may be causing my light prime strike issue. The M&P will fire when the slide isn't quite all the way forward, so if these rounds are causing the slide to sit slightly out of battery, then when the striker fires, it's hitting the round and pushing it forward and some of the striker energy is absorbed by the round moving forward instead of all the energy being put into the primer. Much the same as when you have a primer seated high.

I'm off to the range this week to see if the issue is resolved!


Bingo! I think you might have found it. Good thing too because that kind of thing could cause a big kaboom that could result in some injury.

I've noticed that only have light strikes with my M&P's when I use NATO ammo. Apparently they have a little harder primer than normal stuff. M&P's do have a slightly lighter factory striker spring than say, glock and then they also have the striker rebound spring as well which actually can slow down the striker at the end. I actually plan on getting some extra power striker springs to try out so I can shoot the NATO ball.

There can also be some timing issues between the striker block and the striker dropping to with the apex FSS kits. They are sensitive to the proper timing more than the duty carry kits. If not timed right, the striker can actually glance off the striker block. I had that problem very early on with my first apex FSS because I didn't have it adjusted properly.
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Old 10-23-2017, 07:22 PM
rsrocket1 rsrocket1 is offline
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Glad you are using a case gauge. You could also use the disassembled barrel of your gun. 9mm dimensions are all over the place and if you pick up range brass just like your mother said when she saw you put coins in your mouth "you don't know where that stuff's been".

Many times unknown 9mm brass is expanded at the base and you'll find that the typical resizing die does not size the brass all the way down to the base. That causes hang ups as the slide goes into battery and while it may seem to go fully into battery, if the slide does not close that last mm, the striker will fire, but you'll get a light off center strike that will not set off the primer. The bad thing is that the slide will then close 100% and you'll think the gun was fully in battery, but the light off center primer strike will be the telltale sign.

This is a light off center strike on an already fired piece of brass where I held the slide open and slowly closed it until the trigger released the striker which was not fully closed.



As for the OP's rant, good riddance. If the carry kit on the standard M&P9 worked and he messed up on the flat face kit, that's no reason to condemn Apex for all the woes of the world. He obviously had no patience to let Apex make it right and simply huffed is way out.

25,000 rounds later, my Apex FSS kit is still working great in my M&P40 and I don't even think about it. It just works.
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  #46  
Old 10-24-2017, 07:05 AM
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Thanks for the info rsrocket1. I've only been shooting for a couple of years and just hadn't thought of using a case gauge! Using my barrel to check the rounds is actually how I discovered some of the rounds were so sitting high!

I see what you mean about the 'bulge' at the base, these two pics show two rounds of factory ammo on the right and two of my reloads on the left (with the black stripes). The reloads are sitting high because of the 'bulge', I'm wondering if the small difference will matter and is there a way to correct it anyway? I'm currently using a Lee Pro1000, will a Dillon produce any different results with regard to resizing?

I've noticed that of all the mixed range brass I have for reloading, Federal and Winchester slip straight in, whereas almost all other brands sit ever so slightly high as shown in these pics. However all the reloads that I've run through the resizing die now sit at the same height when dropped into the barrel.

Still haven't made it to the range yet, maybe Thursday this week.



Last edited by Capt Hollywood; 10-24-2017 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 10-24-2017, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Hollywood View Post
Thanks for the info rsrocket1. I've only been shooting for a couple of years and just hadn't thought of using a case gauge! Using my barrel to check the rounds is actually how I discovered some of the rounds were so sitting high!

I see what you mean about the 'bulge' at the base, these two pics show two rounds of factory ammo on the right and two of my reloads on the left (with the black stripes). The reloads are sitting high because of the 'bulge', I'm wondering if the small difference will matter and is there a way to correct it anyway? I'm currently using a Lee Pro1000, will a Dillon produce any different results with regard to resizing?

I've noticed that of all the mixed range brass I have for reloading, Federal and Winchester slip straight in, whereas almost all other brands sit ever so slightly high as shown in these pics. However all the reloads that I've run through the resizing die now sit at the same height when dropped into the barrel.

Still haven't made it to the range yet, maybe Thursday this week.


What I use for a pass/fail on rounds sitting higher in the gauge is if I can hook my fingernail into the extraction groove, it gets pulled and put aside for practice ammo. If I can't get my fingernail into the groove, I call it good to go. Haven't had any problems with this method for the last 100K rounds (approximate number, I don't keep a log book )
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:54 PM
rockster` rockster` is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Hollywood View Post
Appreciate the feedback. Whilst the ammo suggestion does make sense, the problem is I must have put several thousand reloads through it after installing the Apex kit without any problems until a couple of months ago when the light primer strikes started.

You can see in the pic that the striker shows evidence of hitting the striker block, in fact it has peened over the top edge on the side of the striker making it ever so slightly taller. I'm wondering if, over time, as the peened over edge got worse, it has started to contact the striker block even more and cause the issue. With the FSS, the timing between moving the striker block out of the way and then releasing the striker seems very fine.

I've replaced the striker tonight after 8000rds and countless dry fires (And after waiting four weeks to get one from the US!) and have also set the trigger bar gap to .008". I'm a little concerned that with such a small trigger bar gap the sear isn't moving down very far at all. It is releasing the striker every time though, even when I push the slide down on the top of the slide, so I'm assuming it's far enough.

I'll go and put a couple of hundred rounds through it tomorrow and see what happens!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Hollywood View Post
So I had a bit of a 'Eureka' moment today.

For the last six months or so I've been getting the occasional light primer strike when using my 9mm M&P, probably averaging about 5% of my rounds and it was only with my reloads from my Lee Pro1000. It was annoying the hell out of me. I'd tried everything, different primers, isolated various case brands, double checked the primers were seated correctly, checked my press was working as it should be, etc. I believed it was my reloads as it never happened with factory ammo.

Well I bought a case gauge this week and think I may have discovered the issue, check out the pics. For whatever reason, about 40% of my reloads look like the rounds in the three rows on the left of the case gauge, the two rows on the right are factory ammo. Once I run them through a resizing die they're fine but I think this may be causing my light prime strike issue. The M&P will fire when the slide isn't quite all the way forward, so if these rounds are causing the slide to sit slightly out of battery, then when the striker fires, it's hitting the round and pushing it forward and some of the striker energy is absorbed by the round moving forward instead of all the energy being put into the primer. Much the same as when you have a primer seated high.

I'm off to the range this week to see if the issue is resolved!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Hollywood View Post
I find the old threads very handy too when it comes to researching problems.

I fitted a FSS and trigger kit to my 9mm CORE a few months ago and have recently begun getting FTF issues from what I think are light primer strikes, I had 3 today out of 200 rounds, although to be honest they don't look that light to me! Unfortunately, here in Australia handgun owner are few and far between so I haven't got anyone to compare them to!

I noticed some peening on the striker where I believe it has been hitting the striker block so I have adjusted the trigger bar loop gap down to .010 to make sure the striker block is out of the way. Based on what I've read in this forum, .010 gap seems a lot smaller than most other people seem to be using.

I'm wondering though whether it may be an ammunition issue as it is very sporadic. Wouldn't it happen more often if it was a gun issue? I'm reloading so maybe some of the primers are not seating properly even though they look OK.

My striker


New striker





I'm running into the same issue, but it's not ammunition-related. I have the same peened striker, and it appears to be a timing issue that cannot be resolved with the aftermarket trigger (I got it as part of the APEX 100-067 kit), but there may be hope if you're using the forward-set sear by itself.

The trigger bar cannot physically move rearward enough to lift the striker block high enough (I'm using APEX's USB) by way of the APEX trigger (it stops because of where the machining stops on the rear of it), but the design of the stock trigger allows for more travel rearward of the trigger bar and thus raises the striker block fully out of the striker channel. However, if you're using the FSS, you will have to close the loop a TON to get the timing right, and may even need to take material off of the tip of the "candy cane" to close the loop further. The end result will be a slightly longer pull to trip the sear, but you will not get light strikes, even on ****** ammo (like the stuff I shoot) due to the striker interference.

If I could find out how to link to my post in the other thread (it's in the 9C forum under the APEX kits threads) I'm going to update the thread there... hopefully it helps somebody.

ALSO, please, if your striker looks like his (or like mine), do a functions check on your striker block to make sure you cannot shimmy the striker past the block. Mine was peened very similar to the one in the pictures above, and I was able to remove my slide, grab the striker tail (it engages with the sear surface) and was able to defeat the safety by pushing it down with some repetitive shakes (it clicks and fully drops, exposing the firing pin). It might be me just being overly cautious, but if I mistakenly drop the pistol a certain way on a certain surface, things could get ugly.

Thanks!
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:34 PM
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Have you contacted Apex CS about this? No I have not gone back and read the entire thread asking.

In a lot of cases, using an "S" stamped trigger bar and closing the loop entirely will take care of this issue.

We've seen a lot of trigger bars that vary more than .060" from nominal in their length which will cause the issue you're having. If the striker block pickup point is moved too far toward the front, the striker block won't get up and out of the way.

One of the ways I've fixed this is by adding a bevel to the sear cam lobe on the sear to make the trigger bar pickup the sear slightly later, but generally it's not needed.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:09 PM
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Have you contacted Apex CS about this? No I have not gone back and read the entire thread asking.



In a lot of cases, using an "S" stamped trigger bar and closing the loop entirely will take care of this issue.



We've seen a lot of trigger bars that vary more than .060" from nominal in their length which will cause the issue you're having. If the striker block pickup point is moved too far toward the front, the striker block won't get up and out of the way.



One of the ways I've fixed this is by adding a bevel to the sear cam lobe on the sear to make the trigger bar pickup the sear slightly later, but generally it's not needed.
Yes, I'm actively working with them on the issue. I found that the issue is the length of throw on the trigger bar itself, and the only difference I found between the 'S' and 'H' bars are the way the loop is formed. I have ruled out timing as a cause only because the bar cannot physically move far enough back to raise the striker block high enough to get out of the way of the striker (the striker block is still on the ramp of the candy cane and not on the peak of the lifter).

I have to reach back out to APEX again, but I'll be sure to let you guys in on the updates and hopefully a solution.

Thanks!

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