Before I bought my shield, I tried my nephew's shield out at 7 yards. I used an IPSC target and loaded my 4.25 FS and the shield, and ripped off sbout three fast shots from one, than the other, then back and forth until empty. It convinced me that I wanted a shield. I did notice that the gun shot left for me.
After I bought my shield and I was spending my obligatory time in front of the tv, dry firing and shooting bad guys, I noticed that when I gripped the gun in a shooting grip, that the front of the barrel pointed a little to the left.
I got a roll of masking tape and made a pad to go between my palm and the gun. The sights then aligned perfectly for me. I ordered a set of Talon grips and built a pad under the grip area with extra grip material I ordered. I put the Talon grips on and the pad is there if you know to look for it. Otherwise, you can't see it.
Now when I throw the gun up, the sights align perfectly. So if you are shooting left, check your natural sight alignment and if it is pointing a little left, you might want to try the pad. I have big hands and I have to pin the grip safety's on my 1911s for them to always go bang.
First take the tape off. The problem you have is simply called getting used to the firearm. Your hand is just not used to grasping it properly. By adding **** to the weapon all you are doing is making things worse...and possibly unsafe. LEARN the right grip for the weapon. An old trick I learned about 40+ years ago is this: Pick up a pistol and holster it. Slowly draw it and bring it up to sight. If the sights are not where they should be from the first try. Adjust your grip one or two times. Or it just may not the "right" weapon for you.
The fact you say you have "big hands" and your trouble with it tells me you bought the "wrong" pistol.
Also I have to say the fact that you have pinned you 1911's grip safety really bothers me. That is not safe at all. In fact it is down right dangerous.
Interesting observation and solution. I don't see anything wrong with customizing the grip as you did on the shield. I am surprised you pinned the saftey on a 1911. Sure it's got other mechanisms for saftey but that just seems wrong to me, and potentially dangerous. If it's a range toy who cares about the occasional misfire, if a carry gun downright foolish.
I knew when I posted this that people like Willco know more about me than I do myself. I have shoot lots of steel challenge, IPSC pistol and three gun, combat shotgun, sporting clays, and I know how to shoot.
I think it is pretty ridiculous for someone to tell me I bought the wrong gun. If your sights do not line up, you need to do something to make them line up. The gun needs to shoot where you are looking.
Low and left is common if you are milking the trigger. My point was that when I was gripping the gun, there was a misalignment of the sights, not while I was shooting. Read the post guys.
I knew when I posted this that people like Willco know more about me than I do myself. I have shoot lots of steel challenge, IPSC pistol and three gun, combat shotgun, sporting clays, and I know how to shoot.
I think it is pretty ridiculous for someone to tell me I bought the wrong gun. If your sights do not line up, you need to do something to make them line up. The gun needs to shoot where you are looking.
Low and left is common if you are milking the trigger. My point was that when I was gripping the gun, there was a misalignment of the sights, not while I was shooting. Read the post guys.
I don't think anyone was being intentionally mean. There are lot of people on this forum who have taught a lot of other people to shoot very well for a lot of years, and yours is the first post I've ever read that corrected a sight picture with masking tape on the grip of the weapon. The message they were trying to impart is that the proper correction to this issue is a proper grip. Unless you have some sort of physical deformity that prevents a proper shooting grip, it's a relatively simple issue to correct. In my humble opinion, what you have done is akin to a physician treating the symptom of a disease and not the cause. If it works for you, that's fine, but it's an unusual solution.
All I did was create a palm swell on a gripless gun. No more, no less, the proof will be in the shooting. I used the masking tape to see if it corrected my grip and then used the Talon grip material for the palm swell. I put different grips on my 642 when I wanted a covered backstrap so it would fit my hand better. Same thing. Changing your grips to fit your hand is a common thing to do. I'm through defending it.
Crabo, I really don't care how many steel targets you've shot. Not all guns are made for all people. Some adjustment can be made. But when you start to jury rig a firearm like you do. It's a ticking bomb waiting to go off. If you were to show up on my range with a pinned back strap safety. You'd be banned for life. Membership paid or not. What you do to firearms, and you are unsafe.
The Shield was just too thin for me. Tried the Pachmayr Grip Glove but it never stayed in place. If it's only (only?) a carry gun and not a shooter it might be OK. I'm trying a G23 now, I know it's not a S&W. I also tried a 9c and it wasn't right either. Different horses for different courses. Find something (anything) that works for YOU.
Crabo, if I may ask, how big are your hands? mine are not huge, but at 8-3/4" from the tip of my middle finger to the edge of where my wrist and hand meet, they are bigger than average and it didn't take all that much effort to learn how to grip my Shield well.
As ALL Shield owners know, the Shield is a purpose designed self defense HG, not a target gun as long as I can keep my rounds consistently in the "0" zones of a IDPA target at 10 yards and less I'm doing back flips and at that my Shield is more than acceptable. FWIW I started out shooting low and left with both my M&P FS Pro and Shield but once I diagnosed my grip and trigger pull issues, I have not quite cured the issue but are well on my way to doing so.
Are you sure you can't learn to adjust your grip so as not to need to modify the gun itself using what looks like multi layers of tape?
Just my .02c worth. Good luck.
Last edited by DartonJager; 03-02-2016 at 01:21 AM.
I feel differently than many here. I applaud Crabo for taking something that wasn't working and making it work. Yeah, the tape might not be the prettiest way to do it, but if it's bringing the bullets to the center, that's a good thing.
Also, it is an incorrect assumption to say that it's the shooter shooting low/left. If that were the case, the rounds would still go left even with the tape. However, that is not the case.
Again, I like what you did. You had an issue. Rather than complain about how the gun is messed up (what most do), you took steps to make it fit you. I'll shoot with you any day.
I don't know much about much and have no where near the experience as the majority of the fine folks on here.I can relate to the low left hits from my Shiled. Here's my first time out with it
Look familiar ? I knew it was partly(mostly)me since I haven't shot a handgun in many years and knew I needed to work on grip and trigger squeeze.Got some good advice from folks and worked on it and still on other outings not much improvement
I wasn't thrilled with the sights that came on the gun and had some AmeriGlo I Dot sights put on and I noticed before having them installed it appeared the front sight was off center to the right. The Gunsmith confirmed it when installing the sights and he asked me are you hitting Left ? and I said Yep.
I also got the Hogue Handall Jr. grip because of the slight palm swells. Even though I have small hands the thicker grip helped with my grip and also gave me a much more solid and secure feel in my hand.
Here's the last time out(the first hits were the hits to the left and after a very small tweak with my grip and trigger finger placement --- well the results speak for themselves This is at 7 yards 50 shots fired.
Sorry for the long winded post,but sometimes the gun needs some tweaking and not just the shooter.I know I am still a work in progress but it's getting there
Are you sure you can't learn to adjust your grip so as not to need to modify the gun itself using what looks like multi layers of tape?
Just my .02c worth. Good luck.
I will try to explain this one more time. My objective is that when I grab the gun, close my eyes, insert the gun into my line of vision, and open my eyes, I want to be looking right down the top of the slide with my sights. I don't want to be adjusting my sights. I want the gun shooting where my eyes are looking.
I also put an Apex trigger in it, and the 10-8 rear sight on it. Makes a huge difference. I want my gun to work for me, not to have to work to make the gun hit where I want it to.
My 1911s do this, my M&P FS does this, Glock 17 points to the sky, can't shoot it fast, my revolvers do it. It is all about the gun fitting my hand and pointing naturally were I look.
Crabo, I say if what you are doing works for you, then by all means go for it. I'm certainly no expert, but modifying a grip sounds like a reasonable solution to me. After all, isn't that why they make custom grips in the first place...to make the gun feel better in your hand? You're not changing the mechanics of how the gun fires, just how it fits your hand. For me, being a right handed shooter, I suffered the dreaded low and left when I first got my Shield. After some research into shooting technique and practice at the range, I found that the thumbs forward method works great for me (in other words, changing how I was holding the gun). Not only did it bring the pattern up and right, where it should have been to start with, but it tightened up my grouping considerably. I'm not quite blowing the bullseye out of the target just yet, but I am improving.This worked for both my Shield 40 and Bodyguard 380 at distances between 5 and 10 yards. But again, that is what worked for me and may not have the same result for everyone. Happy shooting.
BTW, pinning the grip safety was a common feature on custom 1911s back in the day. Not really sure why, I've never had a problem hitting it, but there it is.
The OP is setting up HIS guns the way HE likes them. SHEESH!
Crabo you have brought up something that is seldom mentioned and that is the gun and sights coming up into alignment and not having to force the gun to point right. The Army Marksmanship Manual for pistol shooting has a good section on this. BTW you can get the manual online in PDF form and it is a very good read. They teach one hand bullseye shooting but it works just as well for SD shooters.
I fought with my 40 Shield for a long time and got my grip and trigger finger placement right. Trigger finger placement will move the shots right or left even with a good grip. I dot it down to around 1 1/2 inches left with tight groups of around 1" out to 10yds. I then moved the front sight and can shoot the 1" center out of a target. Didn't like the 40 and bought a 9 and love shooting it. Don
Can you please elaborate on trigger finger placement?
It's how far you stick your finger into the trigger guard.
Most people do well by placing the middle of the fingerprint pad on the trigger. However, if your rounds are impacting to the left (for a right hand shooter) move the finger closer to the first joint on the trigger. If they are impacting to the right, move the contact closer to the tip of the finger.
It's not a magic cure, but it can help you with left/right POI issues.
It's how far you stick your finger into the trigger guard.
Most people do well by placing the middle of the fingerprint pad on the trigger. However, if your rounds are impacting to the left (for a right hand shooter) move the finger closer to the first joint on the trigger. If they are impacting to the right, move the contact closer to the tip of the finger.
It's not a magic cure, but it can help you with left/right POI issues.
Just as Rastoff says and I couldn't have said it better. All my guns except the Shield I use the finger print. On the shield I move closer to the joint. Shooting my GP100 DA I also move closer to the joint. What is right for me may only be covering up a hidden flaw in my shooting. Don
...my answer would be 'practice'. I have a Shield and I find it thin, too. So I've decided to learn to hold and shoot it for the best I can get out of it.
It's how far you stick your finger into the trigger guard.
Most people do well by placing the middle of the fingerprint pad on the trigger. However, if your rounds are impacting to the left (for a right hand shooter) move the finger closer to the first joint on the trigger. If they are impacting to the right, move the contact closer to the tip of the finger.
It's not a magic cure, but it can help you with left/right POI issues.
I have been shooting left for a couple weeks now. I just could not figure it out. You suggestion by moving my trigger finger closer to the joint was perfect. Today I shoot my tightest groups ever. Thank you!
Last edited by notaliberal; 03-04-2016 at 04:12 AM.
It's how far you stick your finger into the trigger guard.
Most people do well by placing the middle of the fingerprint pad on the trigger. However, if your rounds are impacting to the left (for a right hand shooter) move the finger closer to the first joint on the trigger. If they are impacting to the right, move the contact closer to the tip of the finger.
It's not a magic cure, but it can help you with left/right POI issues.
Hmmm, maybe that's what helped me too. I thought it was thumb placement (thumb forward), but maybe I was subconsciously moving my trigger finger more toward the joint, or maybe a combination of both. Dang it, now I'm gonna have to go to the range and experiment. :-)
I don't know much about much and have no where near the experience as the majority of the fine folks on here.I can relate to the low left hits from my Shiled. Here's my first time out with it
Look familiar ? I knew it was partly(mostly)me since I haven't shot a handgun in many years and knew I needed to work on grip and trigger squeeze.Got some good advice from folks and worked on it and still on other outings not much improvement
I wasn't thrilled with the sights that came on the gun and had some AmeriGlo I Dot sights put on and I noticed before having them installed it appeared the front sight was off center to the right. The Gunsmith confirmed it when installing the sights and he asked me are you hitting Left ? and I said Yep.
I also got the Hogue Handall Jr. grip because of the slight palm swells. Even though I have small hands the thicker grip helped with my grip and also gave me a much more solid and secure feel in my hand.
Here's the last time out(the first hits were the hits to the left and after a very small tweak with my grip and trigger finger placement --- well the results speak for themselves This is at 7 yards 50 shots fired.
Sorry for the long winded post,but sometimes the gun needs some tweaking and not just the shooter.I know I am still a work in progress but it's getting there
That's the way mine are with different pistols. My problem was grip and dominant eye, Army Vet advised me to grip higher on pistol ,thumbs forward and switched to left eye , still practicing and have improved a lot. Good Luck
I've been to the range three times with my 9mm Shield, and I still find myself shooting left no matter what my trigger finger placement is. I've tried to modify how I grip the Shield, and I still shoot to the left. I was going to try to do what the OP did: pad with grip tape. Here is a target from from first outing in early December:
Before I bought my shield, I tried my nephew's shield out at 7 yards. I used an IPSC target and loaded my 4.25 FS and the shield, and ripped off sbout three fast shots from one, than the other, then back and forth until empty. It convinced me that I wanted a shield. I did notice that the gun shot left for me.
After I bought my shield and I was spending my obligatory time in front of the tv, dry firing and shooting bad guys, I noticed that when I gripped the gun in a shooting grip, that the front of the barrel pointed a little to the left.
If the gun is pointing off in one direction, instead of straight ahead, check to make sure your bore axis is in line with your elbow. If not, practice holding it that way, until it's automatic.
I shoot low and left ( on 8 inch target at 7 yards away) only with the Shield 9mm when firing rapidly, but no problem with larger handguns. The fix for me was to pull the trigger with the joint of the index finger and hold the Shield really tight.
Another "fix" that worked was to pull the trigger with the third ( middle ) finger with the index pointing at the target and touching the top of the right side of the frame.
Shot a bunch of steel Friday and the palm swell and Talon grip did what I hoped it would. So far quite a success. I have a 10-8 rear sight on the gun and need to change out the front sight. I have the 10-8s on my FS and I love them.
Shot a bunch of steel Friday and the palm swell and Talon grip did what I hoped it would. So far quite a success. I have a 10-8 rear sight on the gun and need to change out the front sight. I have the 10-8s on my FS and I love them.
I am glad your grip mod is working for you. Some of the posters above sure wouldn't like a lot of my pistol grips. Most have patches of grip tape at certain spots. A couple have a thumb rest made from PC7 epoxy on the left grip. Some have something similar to what you did by using more than one layer of grip tape.These same posters could read and learn how grips are made to suit the shooter's hand here. Randall Fung Match Grips
Working on grip, finger placement and trigger draw. These are buggaboos on all 3 of the pistols I shoot. There just a lot worse with the Shield because it is A) brand new and B) really narrow in the grip.
I'm watching threads like this one hoping to solve some problems, and mist of the advice here is reflected elsewhere. To my eye, that means it's likely to be good advice.
I try to use the 60/40 split. 60% of pressure. From my support hand and 40% from my trigger hand. Do not squeeze the grip when you squeeze the trigger.Just squeez quickly focusing on that front sight and you will hit bull at least a couple times at 7yds. Practice practice practice.
Quick update for the zombie thread. The adjustment in my case seems to be more trigger finger. I find that poking more finger into the trigger guard leads to a substantial reduction in the delivery of rounds well left of POA. Still a lot of work to do, but getting there.
There are some good suggestions on this post, but give this some thought. If you are carrying concealed and have to draw your weapon to save your life, you don't have ANY time to think about your grip or trigger finger placement. NONE!!! Try this. With a SAFE gun, draw it many times from different positions. You should find that you will grip and press the trigger the same way. When you get to this point,go the range and from a standing position draw and fire. Do this a number of times and see where your shots go. Adjust the sights so you are hitting what you are aiming at. This is real life. Stay safe!
Just now seeing this. Good advice. Once things settle down a bit I intend to spend time drilling the draw from concealment with the Shield.
Right now, I'm working on drawing my 1911 from concealment. CCW class is this weekend. Then I switch to the Shield.
Aside: I'm also going to move the Shield from my home defense gun to carry, then mount my M&P FS with rail-mounted flashlight under my headboard with magnets.
I too was shooting low and left with my Shield. The "thumbs forward" grip really corrected my shooting left . The low part was a simple adjustment of the sight picture. In other words it was ME!