The wife and I went to the local gun show today. It's a local venue that holds a show every couple months and we've been quite a few times over the years. Arrived about 10 minutes before the show opened and the line to get in was 4 to 5 times longer than we had ever seen it.

There were two items on my list that I was looking for. First was a Taurus Raging Bull 44 mag with the long barrel. This gun is on backorder everywhere so I really wasn't expecting to find it and none were to be found.

Second, and this one I felt sure I would find as I was told it is very common but never found one. It was the "Gun Show Loophole" Obama keeps talking about. I asked a bunch of folks there but nobody had seen one. Really disappointing for sure as I know these are everywhere!

Seriously though, this was by far the busiest show I've ever been to. Elbow to elbow people and every vendor that was selling guns was swamped. I saw one vendor sell 7 guns in 30 minutes including the M&P 22c I purchased. Guess I'll keep searching for the elusive "loophole".

Yes the stores and shows are packed here. They have a show every month at the civic center. Not a big fan of the show I go once a year or so. Usally to get deals on ammo.I did go today to at local shop to pet and say hi to My 1st Glock I am saving for to add to collection. 27 gen 3 don't like grip on the gen 4

The loophole is utilized when a private seller rents tables at gunshows to sell guns via 'private sale' rules, meaning a sale between two unlicensed (non-FFLs) individuals, and in most states this is just a transaction with a handshake.
It's these individuals who do this repeatedly month in month out, year in year out, and clearly for profit, that spark the ire of the gov't.
I guarantee you were surrounded by this going on, you were just unable to see what you were looking for because it sounds like you had no idea what the thing you were looking for looked like.

Maybe you are correct. But I am certain he knew "what" he was looking for. I judge it to be his TONGUE. The one he had planted firmly in his cheek. (At least I hope so.)

__________________
wanna do right-- not right now

McE, my original post was indeed very tongue-in-cheek. You see, here in North Carolina it is illegal to sell a handgun without getting either a PPP or CCW from the purchaser during a sell between two individuals. Around here it just doesn't happen, at least not at gun shows. Just another lie.

Ah, so you already live in a restricted state. Guess the joke's moreso on you =(

Still sounds the loophole, as defined as a private seller doing many transactions for profit without an ffl license is still possible, though.

You could be right. As a life long resident of NC I'm not at all familiar with the laws in other states regarding firearm sales. Here, you need either a PPP (pistol purchase permit) or have a valid license to CC. With either of these you can purchase a handgun from a dealer or individual and no background check is required since it's already been done to acquire either the PPP or CCW. A lot of folks here have their CCW strictly for buying guns and rarely carry.

I have no doubt there are a lot of back alley deals happening around here, same as everywhere but it's very unlikely to see this going on at gun shows.

This is legal in Florida

How so? You mean a person can make a living on buying/selling guns without a dealer license, which is federally illegal, but Florida-state legal?

You can legally buy and sell guns second hand, person to person. There is no state registry. You can rent space at a gun show and sell what you've got. That's the way it is here.

You can legally buy and sell guns second hand here in NC too but you must get a copy of the buyers PPP or verify their CCW before finalizing the sale. There is no state registry here either. The PPP is issued by the local sheriffs department and basically verifies that you can legally own a firearm. You must have a PPP for each handgun you purchase. With the CCW, you can buy as many as you want. All in all it's really not much of a burden on the law abiding folks here and should keep guns out of the hands of people that shouldn't have them to begin with. Gun shows here are simply not the place criminals go to acquire a firearm.

Having lived in Maryland, where being a pistol owner requires both paperwork and waiting, and almost NO ONEcan get a CCW and now in NC, which is a gun friendly state, but requires the buyer have either a pistol purchase permit from their County Sheriff, or a CCW, which requires classroom training and written & range tests, I never really believed the gun show loophole existed which states like Florida allow. Thanks for the explanations.

Not it's not.
If it is, tell a (former) co-worker of mine who's currently doing 2.5 years.
He sold 113 guns in a little over 1 year, mostly at flea markets. He resold guns that he bought only a few weeks before, a few to felons. His actions were that of a business and not of a private seller reducing his collection. As a business he needs an FFL which he didn't have.
BATFE was on to him within a few months and monitored him for awhile. They gave him a break, they told him to stop doing business or get an FFL. He did neither, three months later he sold to an undercover agent. His son was also involved and is also doing 2.5 years.

You may well be right. All I can say is that I never rented a table. As far as buying from a seller at a gun show without proper documentation.........I invoke my 5th amendment rights, twice.

It is very hard to see a loophole here in Iowa...we usually see right through them. Person to person private transactions are perfectly legal here. We have gun shows somewhere in the state nearly every weekend. I have rarely bought a gun from an unlicensed seller mainly because most don't have anything I'd buy.

The Congress has been starving the ATF budget(and the IRS budget) regularly when Republicans control one or both houses. Both agencies continue to give step raises, TIG raises and promotions which requires a bigger budget appropriation just to break even....they don't get enough appropriated so the numbers of agents has to go down. Congress has also been refusing to approve ATF directors for years so they serve as interims.
I quarantee when ATF heard Obama's plan they laughed because they don't and won't have the bodies to do it.

ATF is so lax I know a gun business in Iowa that has had an FFL continuously since 1968 and has never been audited. Yes the business is active. ATF prefers to go to the big retailers and terrorize the staff for minor nits by threatening to pull the license for bad paper work. It's easy to do and they don't have to get all grubby in our hick towns.

Obama's speech is really much ado about nothing, except he's pandering to the gun haters who don't know the reality cuz they don't have guns.

__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821

Can you give me a link to documentation of this case? I'd like to use it in conjunction with some research I'm compiling. Names, case numbers, anything that would allow me to cite the situation would be much appreciated.

I'll PM you a link of the newspaper report. He never gave details of what happened since he claimed it wasn't him.

BATFE also busted a few sellers at a flea market last year, IIRC, it was the Melbourne Flea Market. Guys there buying and selling every week under the guise of a private seller.

bobknn, it is legal to sell and buy at a gun show and flea market in Florida without a FFL, IF do it as a private seller.
Selling a few guns you've had awhile and because you want something else or you just want to clear out the safe, that's OK to do. I've sold a few this way, once at a gun show and twice at a flea market.
You just can't do it the way McE described, often and in volume as a means to supplement your income. BATFE will determine that you are now a business and you need a FFL.