One more thread about Shield's propensity to hang out of battery...

redwing57 · #1 02-09-2016, 09:43 PM

Hey - if you will indulge, there is one more factor I've never seen discussed about the issue with the Shield's tendency to hang slightly out of battery. In my engineering world, tonight I did what I call "letting the parts talk to me". Slow, careful working of the parts, looking at what moves where, when, and how.

So, a revelation. The slide hangs OOB about 1/8" short as has been discussed many times. So what's happening right then? Several things, but with careful manipulation I eliminated most of them. Trigger reset tab, top round in magazine drag on slide's stripper rib, the slide's force against its support guides, too snug barrel, and on, and on. None of them.

Here's a new one I've not heard anyone mention. The spent-case extractor claw presses WAY hard against the side of the case. As the slide moves its final bit into battery, the chambering round slides upward, under the extractor, under a very heavy side load. I took a picture to show the two contact places, the extractor claw's tip, and the opposite slide wall. The pressure is so heavy that even after I polished the claw and the wall area, brass will still transfer to that slide wall. I'm now convinced that the pressure there is so heavy, that this is what's hanging the slide up for that last 1/8" of travel.

You can experiment yourself, with a brass-backed snap cap like the Tiptons, and just the barrel in the slide. Slip the snap cap into the barrel, then gently slip the barrel partly into the slide. Let the case rim get back under the extractor, then manually push the barrel upward so it goes into its normal set position in the slide. (The barrel has to be seating back against the breech face to move it all the way up). You'll feel a lot of resistance as the case slides up while being pressed on sideways by that extractor. It's quite strong.

So, what to do? I have no idea. Maybe a slightly weaker extactor spring, but then would it reliably extract? I tried, as an experiment, lubing it there, but it didn't help. Maybe there's no help for it. I have two Shields, one about 3 months old with a couple thousand rounds through it, and one new last weekend. I put the older Shield's RSA in the new one to help my wife's ability to rack the slide, and now they both feel quite identical.

I've made peace with this, but try it with your Shield. Press it into something soft but firm, like a sofa cushion, to push it out of battery. Then pull it away. It *stays* out of battery. So, scuffle with bad guy CQB, your weapon presses into him/her/you and gets pushed OOB. It won't return itself when the pressure is relieved; and bang switch does not make bang!

That's people's concern with this behavior that people will say "oh, any pistol will do that". Not true. My Ruger SR9c under no circumstances will do that. Will. Not. If it's pushed OOB, it snaps right back, firmly.

So anyway, I've made peace with this, and figure it's just something to know about this pistol. It may hang OOB, and you'd better be quickly able to give it a push back into battery, say with your thumb. Just know, remember, even train, that it may do this.

WARF51 · #2 02-09-2016, 11:53 PM

Not it bro. I took the extractor out and it does it. I ordered two new extractors and adjusted them 1911 style so the hook does not crash with the case rim internal rebate. I have adjusted at least 10 thousand 1911 extractors or more at Wilsons and Nighthawk by the way and the gun will not reliably eject. The hole in the ejector is elongated to work with 40 and 9mm and to push feed if necessary without breaking. This gun is made for the extractor to really grab the case as it control feeds the round up the bl but if it pops loose it will go ahead and push feed and run.

It is the quick lock up at a steep angle and the striker tail pre-cocking on the sear along with the reset tab camming that hangs it all up. The rail on the bottom of the slide is the pick up rail which exhibits bookos pressure from the top round in the magizine along with all this other stuff happening. This is a design flaw bro and cannot be fixed. The Shield is not the only one that does it, it is just the worse. You thnk they are gonna recall a million guns? LMAO! NO WAY. I HAVE LEARNED TO LIVE WITH IT AND WILL KEEP MY SHIELDS EVEN THOUGH.

I just installed the high dollar guides in both my guns too.

redwing57 · #3 02-10-2016, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WARF51

Not it bro. I took the extractor out and it does it. I ordered two new extractors and adjusted them 1911 style so the hook does not crash with the case rim internal rebate. I have adjusted at least 10 thousand 1911 extractors or more at Wilsons and Nighthawk by the way and the gun will not reliably eject. The hole in the ejector is elongated to work with 40 and 9mm and to push feed if necessary without breaking. This gun is made for the extractor to really grab the case as it control feeds the round up the bl but if it pops loose it will go ahead and push feed and run.

It is the quick lock up at a steep angle and the striker tail pre-cocking on the sear along with the reset tab camming that hangs it all up. The rail on the bottom of the slide is the pick up rail which exhibits bookos pressure from the top round in the magizine along with all this other stuff happening. This is a design flaw bro and cannot be fixed. The Shield is not the only one that does it, it is just the worse. You thnk they are gonna recall a million guns? LMAO! NO WAY. I HAVE LEARNED TO LIVE WITH IT AND WILL KEEP MY SHIELDS EVEN THOUGH.

I just installed the high dollar guides in both my guns too.

Wow. I was actually looking at the extractor pin to try removing the extractor, but I don't have a punch to remove it. So if you've already done that experiment then I won't bother! Amazing.

Yeah, the pick up rail (thanks for the name!) is pushed on so hard by the magazine's top round that brass actually transfers to it. That's a lot of pressure. It'll still hang OOB but to a lesser degree even with no mag, so again not just one thing causing it.

There are several things happening at that list bit of travel, and it seems they probably all add up. It does just seem to be the design.

I've been carrying mine for over 3 months, and that OOB issue has never happened since my first trip to the range with it. Both of mine will properly close if the slide's released from as little as 1/2", a severely short stroke. Any normal handling has never made it fail to go into battery. So the only real problem would be in a CQB situation if it gets pressed out of battery. That is such a low probability that I've decided it's ok.

scooter123 · #4 02-10-2016, 08:24 AM

As you noted too much extractor functions can cause feed issues. Typically this produces a "stall" at the point where the groove is first engaging the bottom of the extractor, but I suppose that if the slide is slowing due to other mechanical factors a stall higher up could happen. I had the classic slide stall with my Sig P290 when it was brand new and it was bad enough that it would happen 2 to 3 times per magazine. Fortunately the extractor for the P290 is retained by a simple straight pin so it was very easy to remove the Extractor and use calipers to grind the Extractor Spring exactly 0.010 inch shorter. Since then my P290 feeds perfectly.