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Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols All Variants of the Smith & Wesson M&P Auto Pistols


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Old 02-13-2016, 11:42 PM
DartonJager DartonJager is offline
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I am the proud owner of a 4.25" M&P Pro9. Keep in mind I am a novice hand gun shot. I am also right handed. To gat a idea of the guns accuracy, I shot it off a rest and sand bags at 20 yards (max distance of my rifle clubs indoor range and it's only in the 20s by me right now in NW Indiana) and was treated to nice silver dollar sized to POA groups. A nice surprise for a novice shooter such as I. In short I love the gun.

I bought it as a economical fun range gun, but also to compete in IDPA. I have began the learning process of becoming a good shot with it and have encountered the trigger induced low and left POI that the M&P FS's are known for.

If I use a isometric style of holding the gun tightly I get acceptable groups for a shooter of my level of capabilities devoid of the low and left problem, but if I loose concentration on my trigger pull even a little my accuracy instantly reflects it with groups low and left.

I have determined the majority of the cause for my low and left POI is my M&P Pro's trigger pull, as I am having a difficult time always reading it so to speak. Or simply stated during actual off hand firing, while pulling the trigger slowly, I often can't tell based on trigger feed back when the trigger is going to fire the gun.

As I see it I have one of two options, continue to learn the trigger as is by doing my dry fire drills and shooting it, or will replacing it with a Apex forward set trigger kit upgrade which includes a solid Glock like trigger to replace the M&Ps trigger that bends, help to solve some and hopefully most of my problem? At only $125 W/S&H if it solves some or most my trigger induced low and left problem it will pay for itself in saving me the cost of extra ammo to learn the trigger.

And let us not forget about the instant gratification factor we humans love to love.

Thanks,
Arthur.
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Old 02-14-2016, 12:22 AM
bada61265 bada61265 is offline
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i traded and got a mp 45 fs .mine had the pro sear in it, which was nice but the trigger did feel a little vague and i didnt like the hinged trigger. Had not even shot it yet and ordered the apex polymer trigger. not the whole kit. the improvement was dramatic, very short take up, no overtravel and shorter reset. at the range i was right on dead center at 10 yards, gotta love it.
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:55 AM
bsmiley bsmiley is offline
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After a few years I put in the Apex flat faced trigger & forward set sear. Huge improvement. I posted a thread about it.
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Old 02-14-2016, 08:59 AM
JCase JCase is offline
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I have on order pro core 9L
Totally new to striker fired pistols except for the rental of the same gun and a glock.
I hope I don't have these issues with the trigger that seems so problematic with m and p's
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Old 02-14-2016, 10:08 AM
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CB3 CB3 is offline
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DartonJager--

Describing more of the characteristics of free handing the trigger would be helpful.

Does it have a long take up?
Gritty?
Heavy? (Get it measured, average of 10 pulls with variance noted)
Inconsistent break point and weight?
Long over travel?

Any one of these characteristics can cause your problem. Stacking two or more of them can be vary hard to train around.

A good gunsmith through polishing and adjustments can fix some of the above.

Grittiness and and a little of the over-weight will decrease with multiple hundreds of (dry) firing, a counterproductive cheap way to learn a new trigger as it changes to eventually improve enough (maybe) to satisfy you.

Or go one of the Apex routes with certain or all their components. Apex parts will change the geometry of the trigger, like:

Shorten take up
Make let off more crisp and predictable
Lighten the pull
Reduce over travel

Polishing your OEM trigger components through use or by a gunsmith will not change the geometry.

In my experience shooting L/L is most often caused by a heavy trigger pull and/or a lot of over travel.

Last edited by CB3; 02-14-2016 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 02-14-2016, 10:37 AM
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scattershot scattershot is offline
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It's not just new shooters. I've been shooting for 60 years, and I still jerk low and left on occasion. The problem with me is that I was jerking the trigger, and the problem is aggravated by the striker fired trigger on modern pistols. Anything you can do for a better trigger pull will help, IMO, but the best thing you can do is practice.

Good luck!
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Old 02-14-2016, 10:45 AM
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Bkreutz Bkreutz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DartonJager View Post
I am the proud owner of a 4.25" M&P Pro9. Keep in mind I am a novice hand gun shot. I am also right handed. To gat a idea of the guns accuracy, I shot it off a rest and sand bags at 20 yards (max distance of my rifle clubs indoor range and it's only in the 20s by me right now in NW Indiana) and was treated to nice silver dollar sized to POA groups. A nice surprise for a novice shooter such as I. In short I love the gun.

I bought it as a economical fun range gun, but also to compete in IDPA. I have began the learning process of becoming a good shot with it and have encountered the trigger induced low and left POI that the M&P FS's are known for.

If I use a isometric style of holding the gun tightly I get acceptable groups for a shooter of my level of capabilities devoid of the low and left problem, but if I loose concentration on my trigger pull even a little my accuracy instantly reflects it with groups low and left.

I have determined the majority of the cause for my low and left POI is my M&P Pro's trigger pull, as I am having a difficult time always reading it so to speak. Or simply stated during actual off hand firing, while pulling the trigger slowly, I often can't tell based on trigger feed back when the trigger is going to fire the gun.

As I see it I have one of two options, continue to learn the trigger as is by doing my dry fire drills and shooting it, or will replacing it with a Apex forward set trigger kit upgrade which includes a solid Glock like trigger to replace the M&Ps trigger that bends, help to solve some and hopefully most of my problem? At only $125 W/S&H if it solves some or most my trigger induced low and left problem it will pay for itself in saving me the cost of extra ammo to learn the trigger.

And let us not forget about the instant gratification factor we humans love to love.

Thanks,
Arthur.
First, welcome to the forum, second, I don't see a question in your post() but am assuming that you're asking if the FSS trigger kit is recommended. To start off, if you're planning on shooting IDPA (or USPSA for that matter) the FSS trigger will change which division you can shoot in. The FSS is not legal for IDPA "SSP" or USPSA "Production" (externally visible modifications), so that is a consideration. I have FSS in all my competition M&P's and wouldn't want to compete without them. I don't have them in my carry guns because they aren't needed (IMO). As a reference I shoot at least one match per week, up to 3 per week depending on what's available.
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Old 02-14-2016, 12:58 PM
ddraper ddraper is offline
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I bought a full size M&P 9 and shot it for approximately 5 months and just shy of 2000 rounds. I kept waiting for the trigger to work it way in. Never happened. I had a Shield which had a much better trigger than the FS out of the box. The Shield trigger worked itself in nice after about 1000 rounds so that is why I thought the FS might come around. The FS had a gritty feel with a lot of pre-travel and what seemed like a non-cosistent reset.

I put in the Apex DCAEK. I didn't want to replace the trigger itself because it would have bumped me from SSP to ESP in IDPA. I have put about 1000 rounds through since the trigger job. The difference is night an day. The Apex still has a fair amount of pre-travel, I didn't expect that to change. The pull is smooth and the reset is consistent and short. Well worth the $90 and an hours worth of work.

There is no doubt in my mind that I am shooting more accurately and consistently with the Apex and my match scores also bear witness to that. I really believe before the Apex I was jerking the trigger excessively due to the grittiness, heavy pull and the inconsistent reset. I will however have to say that I have been working a lot on trigger control and accuracy the last few months.

At this point in time I am no longer concerned about bumping to ESP so I am considering replacing the stock trigger with the Apex machined one (not the ploymer one).
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Old 02-14-2016, 05:33 PM
DartonJager DartonJager is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddraper View Post
I bought a full size M&P 9 and shot it for approximately 5 months and just shy of 2000 rounds. I kept waiting for the trigger to work it way in. Never happened. I had a Shield which had a much better trigger than the FS out of the box. The Shield trigger worked itself in nice after about 1000 rounds so that is why I thought the FS might come around. The FS had a gritty feel with a lot of pre-travel and what seemed like a non-cosistent reset.

I put in the Apex DCAEK. I didn't want to replace the trigger itself because it would have bumped me from SSP to ESP in IDPA. I have put about 1000 rounds through since the trigger job. The difference is night an day. The Apex still has a fair amount of pre-travel, I didn't expect that to change. The pull is smooth and the reset is consistent and short. Well worth the $90 and an hours worth of work.

There is no doubt in my mind that I am shooting more accurately and consistently with the Apex and my match scores also bear witness to that. I really believe before the Apex I was jerking the trigger excessively due to the grittiness, heavy pull and the inconsistent reset. I will however have to say that I have been working a lot on trigger control and accuracy the last few months.

At this point in time I am no longer concerned about bumping to ESP so I am considering replacing the stock trigger with the Apex machined one (not the ploymer one).
Exactly my situation and your solution will also be my exact actions to solve my problem.

Thank you to the member who pointed out and confirmed for me what I thought was true that all external visible mods to my gun will place me in a more advanced classification of IDPA and that is not my wish at this point, so I will stick with a Apex DCAEK up grade.

I will repost once I complete the mod DIMS. Again thanks to all who replied,
Arthur.
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Old 02-14-2016, 06:21 PM
ddraper ddraper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DartonJager View Post
Thank you to the member who pointed out and confirmed for me what I thought was true that all external visible mods to my gun will place me in a more advanced classification of IDPA and that is not my wish at this point, so I will stick with a Apex DCAEK up grade.
Not all visible modifications are prohibited. SSP, You can replace the sights, notch and post only, add grip tape, stippling only on replaceable parts of the grip frame. Certain extended magazine releases are also allowed.
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Old 02-14-2016, 06:26 PM
ddraper ddraper is offline
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BTW - The M&P is a great gun for IDPA. I have never regretted buying mine and competing with it. I liked it so much I went out and bought a second FS. My plan is to have one tricked out for ESP and leave the other setup for SSP.
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Old 02-14-2016, 06:57 PM
Niteshooter24 Niteshooter24 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DartonJager View Post
I am the proud owner of a 4.25" M&P Pro9. Keep in mind I am a novice hand gun shot. I am also right handed. To gat a idea of the guns accuracy, I shot it off a rest and sand bags at 20 yards (max distance of my rifle clubs indoor range and it's only in the 20s by me right now in NW Indiana) and was treated to nice silver dollar sized to POA groups. A nice surprise for a novice shooter such as I. In short I love the gun.

I bought it as a economical fun range gun, but also to compete in IDPA. I have began the learning process of becoming a good shot with it and have encountered the trigger induced low and left POI that the M&P FS's are known for.

If I use a isometric style of holding the gun tightly I get acceptable groups for a shooter of my level of capabilities devoid of the low and left problem, but if I loose concentration on my trigger pull even a little my accuracy instantly reflects it with groups low and left.

I have determined the majority of the cause for my low and left POI is my M&P Pro's trigger pull, as I am having a difficult time always reading it so to speak. Or simply stated during actual off hand firing, while pulling the trigger slowly, I often can't tell based on trigger feed back when the trigger is going to fire the gun.

As I see it I have one of two options, continue to learn the trigger as is by doing my dry fire drills and shooting it, or will replacing it with a Apex forward set trigger kit upgrade which includes a solid Glock like trigger to replace the M&Ps trigger that bends, help to solve some and hopefully most of my problem? At only $125 W/S&H if it solves some or most my trigger induced low and left problem it will pay for itself in saving me the cost of extra ammo to learn the trigger.

And let us not forget about the instant gratification factor we humans love to love.

Thanks,
Arthur.
Had basically the same problems as you, M&P 9L, went with the complete Apex upgrade (aluminum curved forward set trigger)switched to ESP and have never looked back. Alot more fun when the hole in that target appears where you wanted it to . And now my red flatty trigger should be delivered tues along with the red slide cap and the red lettering highlights I will be looking cool,, lol
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Old 02-17-2016, 08:45 AM
bikendan bikendan is offline
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i installed an Apex FSS kit on my FS40 and LOVE it.
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