Seems like the M/P was on fire for a while then some how lost the ball I like M/P have L/E Mp 9 night sights M/P 45 mid size with night sights , Shield 9mm all are flawless no problems ever . but alot of my reading tells me that most L/E are keeping their Glock blood line and going Gen 4 9mm or Sig 320 is going strong . . What happened they had their chance and just left it go it seems . How could their sales fumbled this ???????????????????????

For a department to change gun brands or operating systems means buying new holsters and accessories, a fresh supply of magazines, and most importantly, costly transition training from one semi auto to another. For budgetary reasons, LE agencies are inclined to stay with what they have.

Also, you may not like the looks of a Glock and some don't like the grip angle but they are super reliable and accurate enough for their purpose.

I love my new Shield but also love my new SIG P320, the Sig is just too big to carry IWB but I can see why they are selling like crazy. As for Glock, I hate them, tried several but I flat out can't shoot them, I know it's the trigger but I never got used to it and now I don't have any.

I'm not sure why. When I was looking for a full size polymer 9mm, everyone said get a Glock. But the M&P 9 felt so natural in my hand, I went with it. First range trip last week - 5 full mags, 2 different brands of ammo, not a single hiccup. Right out of the box. I read many complaints about the trigger. I don't get it. Maybe I'm not experienced enough to know, but I liked it just fine. No regrets.

I started with the M&P and maybe that's why I prefer Smiths... I bought a 17 and won a long slide 45 and really tried to like both of them. Sold um both.

The M&P just feels so much better in my hand. I have 5 now and only one failure to eject out of all of them (first day out with a new FS9), 1000s of rounds.

Glock makes a fine gun, just not for me.

PS-Glock has a very big head start over Smith. No denying that.

1 - Accuracy

S&W never recovered from persistent accuracy issues on the M&P 9mm. Despite earnest attempts to diagnose and address the problem, they have not been able to eliminate it.

2 - Trigger.

This is S&W's fault. A $50 per gun cost to drop in Apex parts from the factory would bring the M&P up to 2013 standards.

A Sig P320, Walther PPQ, or H&K VP9 run rings around the M&P ergonomically, are accurate, reliable, and don't feel like drawing sandpaper over a file when shooting, either.

Glock 17/19 remain the ugly but dependable "safe" choice for Agencies everywhere.

S&W desperately needs the M&P Gen 2 submitted under MHS to make it to the marketspace, soon.

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Take your time, fast. J.Hughes

Just guessing but I would think Glock could easily undercut any other manufacturers bid. Other than the barrel and slide almost all the other parts are same between models other than the G20 and G21. And these share a lot of parts with each other and internal parts with the small frames.
Like fdw, the M&P 'feels' better to me....the Glocks, 'different'.
Glock's chambers and bores tend to measure a little larger than many allowing them to run even when 'dirty' aiding their rep for reliability.

On the trigger point Id respectfully disagree.

Most L/E agencies - especially the large city ones that make major purchases - dont want crisp triggers with fast resets. They want deliberate, heavy triggers, with a reset as close to a double action revolver as possible. They will even use their leverage with the purchase size to require a totally different trigger from the consumer trigger - usually heavier springs.

Liability is king, they want no claims of light triggers going off during a pursuit or scuffle. The M&P trigger is perfectly fine for Law Enforcement, in my opinion. Close range center mass shooting.

Apex type triggers are excellent, but heck, lets remember literally what M & P stands for - Military and Police It stands to reason that we need to drop in Apex triggers when what we want to do is competition shooting or civilian CC/target shooting.

And patriotism be damned, these government agencies will not consider an American company first, but whoever comes in cheapest while meeting the criteria. And as stated by someone else in the thread, new equipment and other cost factors figure in. Glock indeed got a head start.

My 2 cents.

Well I love the M/P line have 3 and keep looking at a 2nd full size 9 , I must be sick . You would think Smith would have jumped into L/E again cut a deal got the big name outfits using their products .

My belief is that if S&W had been first to the dance they would be in the lead now. My former agency transitioned to the Glock Model 19 then upgraded to the M23. Glock did not charge us a dime, just had us do a direct swap. Back in the '80s, when we were looking to transition to a semi auto, S&W was not in the game.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

What a strange post by the OP, sounds as though S&W is closing... really....... like the M&P line is on the way out... actually, the more I think about it, it's hilarious. On the contrary, the M&P line is going stronger than ever, manufacturing can't keep up and LE departments are buying like crazy... dats the way I see it!!! Because some Glock fanboz are still buying Glock... ? really... that's laughable, to base your statement on that... The M&P's accuracy was a spotty thing with the 9's, I never had a problem, some did... The M&P out of the box was not a target gun, some wanted it to be... but I'll take my PC M&P and shoot it pretty dang good!!

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Jack C

I love my shield I trust my life with it every day. But the trigger, accuracy, and reliability of the Glock will always trump just about any other poly pistol. And the options for after market parts is much greater for Glocks. Which is why LE are staying with Glocks.
I will also mention that up here in the Pacific NW there seems to be more LE with the M&P line.

Thanks for the reply, In the East I see more Glock around this area a few sig . I like Smith but just seemed like they were not getting picked from what I was reading .

As far as I'm concerned LE ARE GOING WITH THE GLOCK BECAUSE OF THE PRICE DEALS..I'VE SHOT GLOCK AND FOR ME THEY ARE A LOOOOONG WAY FROM BEING THE BENCHMARK..

Although M&P feels good in the hand and the recoil is a little better, I've had misfires with all 3 that I own. It's not unheard of, but it is very seldom to have misfires with glock. They're on the same level as sig and HK as far as reliability is goes.

And inexpensive to maintain.

By the way, if you believe that, look at the S&W stock price. It's up over 35% while the general stock market is going down.

How does that work - LE staying with Glocks but LE in your area with the M&P?

Mi State Police have switched from Sig 226-R 40 to a glock 17 9mm. I know S&W tried for the contract. So there are a lot of nice sigs on the market. Be Safe,

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I BACK OUR BLUE

My son is L/E he has the older M/P 9 I got for him when he graduated Penn State . This M/P never jammed but shoot all over the place ,I sent it back said it was L/E and marked 911 on the paper ,came back new barrel ex trigger nice and crisp pull , bump on slide lock .They took care of it but they did a nice trigger not real light kind of glass break.

Just read an article in the Motley Fool titled "the 5 best selling pistols of 2015". These were civilian sales, but S&W had two in the top 5. Glock wasn't mentioned. Also, in the same article, the Shield exceeded 1M total units sold last year.

Pretty good numbers.

Out
West

It's also not unheard that the ammo is to blame.

Glock throws insane deals at agencies looking to trade. Very hard to justify anything other than low bid when for all practical purposes, the pistols are equivalent . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Yup. I know that is part of what did if for my department when they moved from the S&W 5906/3906 to the Glock 22 in 2000. The gun was almost free (traded the S&W's to the distributor) and the department just had to purchase the holsters and magazine pouches. Not sure when S&W introduced an equivalent 40 caliber but Glock was the "in" thing at the time for the administrators making the decisions.

And more recently, the department went with the Gen 4 Glock 22 to replace the older ones. No need to train armorers again, same holsters and related equipment along with no new officer training. I imagine it was a very good deal for the new Glocks but I was gone when that happened so I don't know.

But the other city of size in my county has had M&P's. They had the full size .40 calibers and went back to the full sized 9mm's at the end of last year.

I suspect most departments that went M&P will stay M&P for the same reason my old department stayed with Glock. Changing brands involves more than just changing the gun and times are tight.

Then there was this:


By the way, when my department went to glocks we got to buy our service model 66 no dashs for what Glock was offering in trade. I bought both my 2 1/2 and 4 inch and kept them both. Then when I retired, they presented me with my issue Glock 23. I still have it, and qualify with it every year. I've been retired so long, I just noticed that the tritium night sights are dead. I'll have to get new ones put in. Only shoot it at qual times though, I have too many much more charming handguns to shoot!!!

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

I'm a big Glock fan for sure. However, I have to admit that my love for S&W has tied with Glock over the last 6 months. It all started when I purchased a new PC M&P 40 CORE with the 5" ported stainless barrel. What a shooter and the Apex trigger is second to none, smooth as silk.

S&W seams to be doing very well. The Shield is a huge success. The M&P full size are the gun of choice for many LE agencies. The M&P compacts are very popular for civilian conceal carry, and many experts think they are the perfect CC gun. The S&W M&P Sport 15 has been a huge success as well. Not really sure where the OP is getting his facts from.

State police swapped Glock 22s for M&P 9s.
Immediately thereafter, sheriff and all local police departments followed suit.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Well I just picked up another full size M/P 9 L/E gun new SKU 151215 3 mags ,night sights build date 9/6/14 I would think being L/E would have all updates .that makes 2 M/P 9 other on sku 309701 N/S 3 mags I cant stop all the one on the way has PVD finish like flat black . I see more Glocks back East

Glock has done a far superior marketing job, particularly to the casual shooter. Great branding. IMHO. My non gun friends all know what a Glock is, S&W M&P?

I've seen huge discounts on new M&Ps. Not on new Glocks.

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Just hanging with my dogs

M&P is doing fine in my house.

the state dept. i worked for issues M&P 9 FS for duty work, 9Compacts and Shields for undercover

glock spends 10x more than any other gun company on advertising.
glock damn near gives them away to any pd that will take them. Guns, parts, and support.

they have created this whole aura of "perfection" and the fact is they are no better than any other reputable gun manufacturer. The M&P, XD, and even the SR series are just as reliable and accurate.

It all boils down to one thing. $$$$$$$. Glock figured out a long time ago that if you see a cop carrying a glock you know it must be good. Except for the fact that most cops rarely shoot their weapon and half of them couldnt tell you anything about them other than "thats what we were issued".

The Glock design is wonderfully and purposely suited to "fleet" sales and their marketing strategy has effectively capitalized upon this.

I don't believe anyone will soon bump Glock out of first place in the law enforcement/military sector. But 2nd place is a valuable and profitable business position in that market.

Whats up with the M/P L/E guns with PVD finish ,3 mags and night sights , gun shops cant order them they dont have access to SKU 151215 in 9 or SKU 151213 in 40 . What and who is getting them ??????????

nuff said

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Sure you did

Both Flint City, going with the full size M&P 45 and Detroit City have gone with the Smith & Wesson M&P.
As for the triggers, I teach firearms and tactics at the Flint Police Academy, am also the retired Director, the Flint officers going through the Academy with the M&P 45's have had no problems what so ever, both male and female.
I have an M&P 45, full size with the thumb safety and have no problem with the trigger. I carried a cocked and locked Colt Government Model and later a Commander, both in 45 for 26 years on my old department, from which I retired. Carried a Colt in the military for three years prior to that. The M&P trigger is fine, just shoot it and it will smooth out.
Most people buying all the after market triggers and other gizmos that are sold don't need a match grade trigger for their purpose. This is not a target pistol but a combat pistol.
I carried a Glock 23 for the last 13 years as an officer in Flint, it was ok but I think the M&P is a better pistol.
I am a Glock, Sig, S&W, Colt and Remington Armorer, with 46 years on the job and a police firearms instructor since 1975. Have also been shooting in various handgun competitions with various revolvers and pistols since 1965, so I have some small amount of experience. I know, that and a buck sixty-five will get you a cup of coffee at Mickey D's!
Just trying to add some insight.
Spend the money for ammo for more practice and less on gizmos. Sigs are expensive, need he trigger return spring replaced every 5000 rounds. Glocks recoil spring needs replacement every 5000 rounds also, priced equal with the M&P, but has been around longer, that's why all the agencies are going with it. And I have seen both Glocks and Sigs with what may be called a ****** trigger, but they are combat guns not match pistols.
Also like the other gentlemen stated the change over on firearms for an agency is expensive, especially when the leather is added.
And with that, long live the Model 10 M&P 38!

When I started with my Dept in 2009, I was issued a Beretta 92G. We then transitioned to M&P40. I was happy with mine, but the Dept had issues to the point where all officers were given replacement "improved" M&P40. The "improved" M&Ps had more problems and resulted in all officer getting replacement "old" M&Ps. I don't know the specific malfunctions or breakages. I know I carried three different M&P40s, and I personally had no problems. We are now replacing them with Glock 17 Gen4. They have all worked well for me.

I won't carry a gun with a Glock/XD/M&P type trigger, but if I did it would be a M&P. IMO the ergonomics of the Smith trump Glock by leaps and bounds.

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NRA Endowment Member

M&P may have the better ergonomics but Glocks simplicity and reliability trump M&PS all day long.

keep drinking the koolaid.... like the M&P isn't simple.... ain't anything simpler about em..

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Jack C

I was just up back and was shooting my L/E MP 9 with night sights sku 309701 it was flawless I did put a new 357 sig green color recoil spring in this gun to play with and its flawless with any ammo , just shot Win steal case speer gold dot and some blazer , this spring is a little heaver maybe gives a tighter and longer lock up ,gun has a up grades

Simple and they would not have the RSA issue that so many people come across. Don't get me wrong I love my shield great for concel carry simple to use. Trumps the 43. But other than that the compact and FS models Glock all day.

You can't trump 100% reliability, which is what I have experienced with my two used M&P guns. One might go so far as to refer to their reliability as "perfection."

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NRA Endowment Member

I am glad that you have good experence with your M&PS. But they are defiantly not perfection. Glock has been making poly pistol for a much longer time than S&W they have perfected it.

Glock is an excellent pistol, no doubt about it. But "perfection" is certainly an overstatement of the manufacturer. Its not like they have been 100% trouble-free nor do they fit well in all hands.

Excellent weapons? Yes. Perfection? Not so much.

My only complaint of the M&P design is the trigger hinge.

I much prefer glock style triggers, but this isn't so much of a gripe against S&W as it is against apex for not making a polymer shield trigger. Tried the aluminum, corner of the trigger rubbed my finger to the point of blistering.

I would gladly pay the same price as the aluminum for a poly shield trigger from apex.

Agreed. I knew going into the M&P game I'd be changing the trigger and I do like the polymer Apex in my 9c very much. I can't imagine why Apex doesn't offer the polymer for the Shield, especially as popular as that pistol is.

The only Apex stuff I have put in some of mine is the sear and trigger spring , and the more polished firing pin block. My shield trigger seemed very good from day one short and crisp.

I'm not a Glock hater. In fact I own four of them. They are not perfect. Are they reliable? They are. Are they durable? You bet. Would I trust my life to one? Without hesitation. Are they perfect? No. Nothing is.

The giant bulges left behind on 10mm brass by my early G20 certainly fall short of perfection. Having to buy a new barrel to shoot full-power cast loads isn't perfect. Finger grooves that don't fit my hands aren't perfect.

Sorry, but when anyone uses the term "perfection" to describe any firearm IMO they end up sounding like a marketing guy.

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NRA Endowment Member