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  #1  
Old 07-22-2016, 09:30 PM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Default Has anyone else had a problem with Smith & Wesson warranty???

I purchased a S&W model 457 in 2005. The frame had been damaged from shooting factory rounds, so much so they replaced the frame in 2005 and again in 2006 for the same reasons. Well I sent it back again after it had huge dents in the frame from the barrel contacting it, after only 100 rounds. S&W sent it back saying the gun was totally fine. I called and asked why they would send it back with no repairs and they told me they would not have done that.The damage was very visible if they just disassembled it the last time I sent it in. so again I send it back with pictures of the damaged part. gunsmith there says the gun is so damaged it is unsafe to shoot. They do not make this model anymore so they offer me a replacement gun. Msrp on my original 45cal pistol was $689. S&W offer me a M&P shield 9mm as a replacement. Msrp on 9mm shield is $469. They will not budge on giving me a gun that is even comparable or even match dollar for dollar to my original firearm. I was told if i want to get a gun that is comparable that they would get back to me in 3 days (its been 4) with what I would owe them. Does this seem right to anyone else? Do any S&W gun owners know this policy about their S&W firearms warranty?
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Old 07-22-2016, 10:20 PM
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I would think that a M&P Compact 45 would be in order.....
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Old 07-22-2016, 10:49 PM
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Default I sent a Shield back....

I sent a Shield back recently and got it back in a week. UP UNTIL NOW, the only times I've heard of S&W 'cheaping out' was if they thought it was the fault of the ammo or some kind of abuse. I'm NOT saying this is your case, but I'm really curious about what, in your opinion is the cause of this gun failing twice? Do you think the metal was a bad batch?
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Old 07-22-2016, 11:14 PM
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Here we go again...
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Old 07-22-2016, 11:25 PM
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See if they will give you a new Shield 45.

Welcome to the forum.
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  #6  
Old 07-22-2016, 11:59 PM
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I had a problem with a Performance center shield.
Very LONG story short - It took me 2 times of sending it back before they replaced what needed replacing.
The 1st time they sent it back with no repairs.
The Performance Center Dept was very smug & arrogant to me on the phone. I even got my S&W Diamond dealer involved & they were smug to him also.
I will think twice before purchasing a new S&W again.
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Old 07-23-2016, 12:46 AM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAREDSHS View Post
I would think that a M&P Compact 45 would be in order.....
the msrp of the gun i currently have was $681 and i was asking for an m&p 45 with threaded barrel kit with an msrp of $719. i told them i would pay the difference of $38 but s&w will only give me what they think my current gun is worth. if you have a gun that is out of production sell it before it broken beyond repair otherwise they will just downgrade you for free.
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Old 07-23-2016, 12:53 AM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
I sent a Shield back recently and got it back in a week. UP UNTIL NOW, the only times I've heard of S&W 'cheaping out' was if they thought it was the fault of the ammo or some kind of abuse. I'm NOT saying this is your case, but I'm really curious about what, in your opinion is the cause of this gun failing twice? Do you think the metal was a bad batch?
I am on my 3rd frame and it is destroyed. with this frame i used exactly what they told me to use winchester 230 grain full metal jacket. 100 rounds shot through and according to the gunsmith at S&W is unsafe to shoot. metal must have been a bad batch. but the service guy told me its because the metal is old. i didnt know metal had an expiration date lol
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Old 07-23-2016, 12:56 AM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Here we go again...
what does this imply? im new to the whole forum thing and any info would be greatly appriciated
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  #10  
Old 07-23-2016, 12:58 AM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Originally Posted by Targets Guy View Post
See if they will give you a new Shield 45.

Welcome to the forum.
They will not unless i pay the difference. they will only offer me the 9mm shield not even the 40cal
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  #11  
Old 07-23-2016, 01:02 AM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim L View Post
I had a problem with a Performance center shield.
Very LONG story short - It took me 2 times of sending it back before they replaced what needed replacing.
The 1st time they sent it back with no repairs.
The Performance Center Dept was very smug & arrogant to me on the phone. I even got my S&W Diamond dealer involved & they were smug to him also.
I will think twice before purchasing a new S&W again.
i will post the pics of damage as soon as i can to show everyone the damage they missed. service center was definitely very smug. i told them i was going to get online and see if anyone else had problems like this and kinda spread my story of how i am beig treated. the service center manager told me to go ahead because his grandfather fought for the rights so i could say whatever i wanted. pretty ****** customer service to say the least.
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  #12  
Old 07-23-2016, 01:23 AM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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  #13  
Old 07-23-2016, 01:25 AM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Old 07-23-2016, 07:49 AM
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The words Performance Center used to mean quality & they payed attention to detail. Now it just means mass production & quantity over quality.
I'm sure soon they will only offer SD VE as a replacement.
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Old 07-24-2016, 03:00 PM
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back to the top....
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  #16  
Old 07-24-2016, 05:47 PM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim L View Post
The words Performance Center used to mean quality & they payed attention to detail. Now it just means mass production & quantity over quality.
I'm sure soon they will only offer SD VE as a replacement.
SD VE? Sorry I don't know what that stands for

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  #17  
Old 07-24-2016, 05:59 PM
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back to the top....
At the risk of thread drift, why would you bump a thread to the top which A: Isn't yours and B: Isn't a sell or buy ad . . . ?

(realizing that I'm de facto bumping this by sort of drifting the thread . . . )
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Old 07-24-2016, 06:00 PM
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SD VE? Sorry I don't know what that stands for

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SD is a semi auto model about the size of a Glock 19
SD = Self Defense - VE= Value Enhanced
It cost less than the M&P line.
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Old 07-24-2016, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
At the risk of thread drift, why would you bump a thread to the top which A: Isn't yours and B: Isn't a sell or buy ad . . . ?

(realizing that I'm de facto bumping this by sort of drifting the thread . . . )
A - because I feel S&W quality has gone down hill & I want customers to know it.
B- I'm not selling or buying anything (im not sure what the inferred intent was on that one?
I have a C for you,, Why do you care? or why are you policing the thread?
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Old 07-24-2016, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
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A - because I feel S&W quality has gone down hill & I want customers to know it.
B- I'm not selling or buying anything (im not sure what the inferred intent was on that one?
I have a C for you,, Why do you care? or why are you policing the thread?
B: Because buyers and sellers bump ads to create traffic, but I've yet to see a thread bumped solely to attempt to create comments. I was making a comparison.

C: Duly noted . . .
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Old 07-24-2016, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
B: Because buyers and sellers bump ads to create traffic, but I've yet to see a thread bumped solely to attempt to create comments. I was making a comparison.

C: Duly noted . . .
I am fairly new to this forum & have never participated in forums before.
Now I understand your comments.
I admit I wanted to see this thread keep going.
I will comment next time. I guess it is strange to bump it (but I thought that was the proper thing to do)
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Old 07-24-2016, 06:31 PM
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I admit I wanted to see this thread keep going.
I've already done way too much to keep a thread alive in which I disagree with the premise. If others are interested, the thread will keep going. If not, it dies a natural death. Capitalism at its finest . . .
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Old 07-24-2016, 07:55 PM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Well before this post does die I'll ask a more direct question to everyone. My question is what would you do in the case of your warranty return not being able to be repaired and your current firearm not being in production, would you settle for a gun that did not fit your hand properly, was of smaller caliber, and of lesser value? Keep in mind you have a stock of ammo in your current caliber, already own a holster, and misc accessories for said gun. What would you do?

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Old 07-24-2016, 07:57 PM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim L View Post
SD is a semi auto model about the size of a Glock 19
SD = Self Defense - VE= Value Enhanced
It cost less than the M&P line.
Thanks Jim.

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Old 07-24-2016, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaeljlee1980 View Post
Well before this post does die I'll ask a more direct question to everyone. My question is what would you do in the case of your warranty return not being able to be repaired and your current firearm not being in production, would you settle for a gun that did not fit your hand properly, was of smaller caliber, and of lesser value? Keep in mind you have a stock of ammo in your current caliber, already own a holster, and misc accessories for said gun. What would you do?

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Great question,,, I would stick to your conscious & keep moving up the chain at S&W. That is what I had to do with my Performance Center issue.
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Old 07-24-2016, 08:04 PM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Great question,,, I would stick to your conscious & keep moving up the chain at S&W. That is what I had to do with my Performance Center issue.
I have already talked to the service center manager and he said he is the top. I asked for his bosses name and extension. I got the name and he refused to give me the extension. Manager said he was the top of the chain. I get to plead my case again with him tomorrow.

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Old 07-24-2016, 09:48 PM
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insist that they (S&W) repair your present firearm...
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Old 07-24-2016, 11:54 PM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Quote:
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insist that they (S&W) repair your present firearm...
Unfortunately they no longer make that model. It needs a new frame and they have no more.

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Old 07-25-2016, 11:29 PM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Update from S&W warranty manager today. For the m&p 45 with extra barrel kit (msrp $719) I will have to turn my current model 457 (msrp $689) in and pay $220 plus fees. Does anyone see a problem with s&w warranty REPLACEMENT policy here?

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Old 07-26-2016, 01:55 AM
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Default I would ask them....

It seems that they can't replace what they don't have. If the damage is beyond normal wear and tear (which it sounds like it does) I'd ask them what deal they would make for a comparable gun, at least the same basic size frame and caliber. You will have to pitch in your part, because you've been shooting the gun for over 10 years.

I mean if I had a 1911 style gun that had to be replaced and I was asked to kick in value also, II wouldn't want a Shield. I'd want a 1911 style gun back even if it cost me something. That is unless you just happen to want what they offer, which doesn't sound palatable in this case.
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Old 07-26-2016, 06:20 AM
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the only problem I see is you keep thinking your gun is still worth "MSRP". It didnt sell new for that price nor is it worth that as a used gun.

If I go out and total my 10 year old car I certainly wouldnt expect the insurance company to give me what I paid for it.

If you want to be fair about it, go to gunbroker and see what a good used gun is going for and work from there. I imagine a new M&P sells for nearly the same amount as a used 457.

take the trade - sell it - buy another 457. It aint rocket science.
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Old 07-26-2016, 06:26 AM
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A few years back, I got a letter from S&W telling me my PPK/S was recalled. I followed all the instructions in the letter and never got the promised shipping label. I called twice and was told it was coming, it never did.

Last year I called because both of our Shields were acting up and wanted new RSAs. I was told none were available and they were no longer taking a backorder list.
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Old 07-26-2016, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Michaeljlee1980 View Post
Update from S&W warranty manager today. For the m&p 45 with extra barrel kit (msrp $719) I will have to turn my current model 457 (msrp $689) in and pay $220 plus fees. Does anyone see a problem with s&w warranty REPLACEMENT policy here?

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Seems fair to me. You're giving them an 11 year old gun and getting a brand new one for $220. You couldn't trade it for that at the LGS . . .
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Old 07-26-2016, 08:07 PM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Originally Posted by WGSNewnan19 View Post
the only problem I see is you keep thinking your gun is still worth "MSRP". It didnt sell new for that price nor is it worth that as a used gun.

If I go out and total my 10 year old car I certainly wouldnt expect the insurance company to give me what I paid for it.

If you want to be fair about it, go to gunbroker and see what a good used gun is going for and work from there. I imagine a new M&P sells for nearly the same amount as a used 457.

take the trade - sell it - buy another 457. It aint rocket science.
If your car has a warranty for the rest of you life like the gun has a warranty for the rest of your life that would be an accurate assumption. However it's not, so this is fairly more complicated still not rocket science either. If s&w puts a warranty on a product for the rest of your life wouldn't you expect them to uphold that warranty not just a warranty of till they run out of parts? And the same and only part that has been replaced by the way. Maybe the problem wasn't even fixed the first 2 times I sent it back to have work done only the part that had obvious damage to it could have been replaced. The way I see it is they warranty a product of X amount of $. If it fails because of them using sub-par materials numerous times that is not my fault and they would replace it with parts that cost that same amount of $.

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  #35  
Old 07-26-2016, 08:09 PM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
Seems fair to me. You're giving them an 11 year old gun and getting a brand new one for $220. You couldn't trade it for that at the LGS . . .
But I'm not trading it in. I'm simply asking them to fix my gun. They can't because they don't carry the part any longer. S&W guns are supposed to have a warranty for the rest of your life not warranty ends when they decide to stop producing.

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Old 07-26-2016, 08:14 PM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
It seems that they can't replace what they don't have. If the damage is beyond normal wear and tear (which it sounds like it does) I'd ask them what deal they would make for a comparable gun, at least the same basic size frame and caliber. You will have to pitch in your part, because you've been shooting the gun for over 10 years.

I mean if I had a 1911 style gun that had to be replaced and I was asked to kick in value also, II wouldn't want a Shield. I'd want a 1911 style gun back even if it cost me something. That is unless you just happen to want what they offer, which doesn't sound palatable in this case.
This is not normal wear and tear. The frame has been replaced 2 times previously with identical damage. Maybe they never corrected the original problem and simply replaced the part that had obvious damage. I was also told they have no gun that is comparable to mine. This is an obvious lie from the service department. S&W warranty states they warranty the firearm for the rest of one's life not just till they stop production.

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  #37  
Old 07-26-2016, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Michaeljlee1980 View Post
But I'm not trading it in. I'm simply asking them to fix my gun. They can't because they don't carry the part any longer. S&W guns are supposed to have a warranty for the rest of your life not warranty ends when they decide to stop producing.

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Well, they're not gonna replace my top break when it stops firing either . . .
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Old 07-26-2016, 08:19 PM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Well, they're not gonna replace my top break when it stops firing either . . .
What's the warranty of your top break? Is it the same they implied on current firearms? Obviously it cannot be replaced but what if it had the same warranty and they decided to give you a revolver in the smallest caliber with the cheapest value?

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  #39  
Old 07-26-2016, 08:22 PM
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What's the warranty of your top break? Is it the same they implied on current firearms? Obviously it cannot be replaced but what if it had the same warranty and they decided to give you a revolver in the smallest caliber with the cheapest value?

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Losing battle, man. Take what they give you and run. You shot the thing after the last return for like nine years. Ask people with first, second and third generation semi's how they feel about this issue. It is what it is. Move on . . .
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  #40  
Old 07-26-2016, 08:31 PM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Losing battle, man. Take what they give you and run. You shot the thing after the last return for like nine years. Ask people with first, second and third generation semi's how they feel about this issue. It is what it is. Move on . . .
As I said in my earlier posts it has sat in my safe for the past 9 years. I finally decided to put a box of 100 rounds through it to see what would happen. This is what happened. I have not any battle. Why couldn't you answer my last couple questions? Is it that you are set in your ways and you must be correct. I don't think anyone will judge you if you change your mind on this because you have seen the light. If you don't want to be involved in this post please by all means go ahead and move on. There are many people on here who are at the bare minimum being educated on what the s&w warranty is. I'm OK with that.

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  #41  
Old 07-26-2016, 08:33 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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Originally Posted by Michaeljlee1980 View Post
Well before this post does die I'll ask a more direct question to everyone. My question is what would you do in the case of your warranty return not being able to be repaired and your current firearm not being in production, would you settle for a gun that did not fit your hand properly, was of smaller caliber, and of lesser value? Keep in mind you have a stock of ammo in your current caliber, already own a holster, and misc accessories for said gun. What would you do?

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You asked, so here goes: Take the 9mm Shield and RUN.

The 9mm Shield is the best of the bunch. The .40 Shield has had more "issues" if you can believe the posts on this forum. The .45 Shield is too new, and I would not trust that all of the "kinks" are corrected yet. And, 9mm ammo is more affordable, will do fine in the stopping power department if you use currently made premium ammo, and you will have less recoil, more rounds in the magazine, and the weapon will have a MUCH better trigger than your 457 ever thought about having.

The 457 was the Value Line version of the 4516, and as such, it occupied a place in the line now held by the SDVE Series (the current version of the original SIGMA).

Frankly, I think S&W is going above and beyond to offer you a new gun. As the 457 is no longer in production, they are giving you what amounts to a current production premium pistol in the most tested and reliable version in exchange for a battered frame, out of production, Value Line model.

Personally, I would take the deal they have offered without hesitation, and hope that my answer were received before S&W changes its mind.


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  #42  
Old 07-26-2016, 08:38 PM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Originally Posted by shawn mccarver View Post
You asked, so here goes: Take the 9mm Shield and RUN.

The 9mm Shield is the best of the bunch. The .40 Shield has had more "issues" if you can believe the posts on this forum. The .45 Shield is too new, and I would not trust that all of the "kinks" are corrected yet. And, 9mm ammo is more affordable, will do fine in the stopping power department if you use currently made premium ammo, and you will have less recoil, more rounds in the magazine, and the weapon will have a MUCH better trigger than your 457 ever thought about having.

The 457 was the Value Line version of the 4516, and as such, it occupied a place in the line now held by the SDVE Series (the current version of the original SIGMA).

Frankly, I think S&W is going above and beyond to offer you a new gun. As the 457 is no longer in production, they are giving you what amounts to a current production premium pistol in the most tested and reliable version in exchange for a battered frame, out of production, Value Line model.

Personally, I would take the deal they have offered without hesitation, and hope that my answer were received before S&W changes its mind.

As I said it does not fit my hand and I already have lots of .45 ammo.

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  #43  
Old 07-26-2016, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by shawn mccarver View Post
You asked, so here goes: Take the 9mm Shield and RUN.

The 9mm Shield is the best of the bunch. The .40 Shield has had more "issues" if you can believe the posts on this forum. The .45 Shield is too new, and I would not trust that all of the "kinks" are corrected yet. And, 9mm ammo is more affordable, will do fine in the stopping power department if you use currently made premium ammo, and you will have less recoil, more rounds in the magazine, and the weapon will have a MUCH better trigger than your 457 ever thought about having.

The 457 was the Value Line version of the 4516, and as such, it occupied a place in the line now held by the SDVE Series (the current version of the original SIGMA).

Frankly, I think S&W is going above and beyond to offer you a new gun. As the 457 is no longer in production, they are giving you what amounts to a current production premium pistol in the most tested and reliable version in exchange for a battered frame, out of production, Value Line model.

Personally, I would take the deal they have offered without hesitation, and hope that my answer were received before S&W changes its mind.

Sounds like good advice....
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  #44  
Old 07-26-2016, 08:43 PM
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As I said in my earlier posts it has sat in my safe for the past 9 years. I finally decided to put a box of 100 rounds through it to see what would happen. This is what happened. I have not any battle. Why couldn't you answer my last couple questions? Is it that you are set in your ways and you must be correct. I don't think anyone will judge you if you change your mind on this because you have seen the light. If you don't want to be involved in this post please by all means go ahead and move on. There are many people on here who are at the bare minimum being educated on what the s&w warranty is. I'm OK with that.

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I completely understand what S&W means by "lifetime warranty," along with what other entities mean by lifetime warranty. People that don't walk around mad. My suggestion to you is to engage an attorney and sue for specific performance . . .

(edit: I don't pretend to suppose what forum members know or don't know about the S&W warranty, although I suspect you'd be quite surprised. Many members, including myself, have spent time at the factory, and there is a multitude of years of experience here.)
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Old 07-26-2016, 09:16 PM
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As I said it does not fit my hand and I already have lots of .45 ammo.

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Sell it to someone whose hand it does fit and put the money towards a .45!
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Old 07-26-2016, 09:50 PM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
I completely understand what S&W means by "lifetime warranty," along with what other entities mean by lifetime warranty. People that don't walk around mad. My suggestion to you is to engage an attorney and sue for specific performance . . .

(edit: I don't pretend to suppose what forum members know or don't know about the S&W warranty, although I suspect you'd be quite surprised. Many members, including myself, have spent time at the factory, and there is a multitude of years of experience here.)
Mad? I am expressing my concern and that I am unhappy with the results but I never said I was mad. Also I never said this was a performance issue. S&W's gunsmith told me the gun was unsafe to shoot but it is funny that the service department told me they would return the gun and they were fine with me continuing to shoot it. Maybe at that point I could contact an attorney. You don't suppose but you suspect huh? Just because there is a multitude of experience there means nothing if it isn't good experience. The service folks I have been dealing with have only been there a little over a year. Doesn't sound like a whole lot of experience there does it? A new hire doesn't have the experience or history for the entirety of said company.
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Old 07-26-2016, 10:01 PM
bob98366 bob98366 is offline
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Default My experience has been very good.

After about 15,000 rounds fired, the slide stop broke off on my M&P40 Pro. Called S&W customer service. They emailed a shipping document and returned it fixed in under 3 weeks. No charge to me for anything and they included a 10 round mag for free.

Also later called to buy spare recoil and striker springs. Customer service just mailed them to me at no cost.

YMMV, but I'm a happy shooter.
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  #48  
Old 07-26-2016, 10:16 PM
Michaeljlee1980 Michaeljlee1980 is offline
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After about 15,000 rounds fired, the slide stop broke off on my M&P40 Pro. Called S&W customer service. They emailed a shipping document and returned it fixed in under 3 weeks. No charge to me for anything and they included a 10 round mag for free.

Also later called to buy spare recoil and striker springs. Customer service just mailed them to me at no cost.

YMMV, but I'm a happy shooter.
The first 2 times they replaced the frame under warranty no problem and with great customer service. This is gun replacement and with a completely different attitude from customer service (new employees for sure). Trust me when I say I was more than shocked that this was their decision.

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  #49  
Old 07-26-2016, 10:30 PM
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Mad? I am expressing my concern and that I am unhappy with the results but I never said I was mad. Also I never said this was a performance issue. S&W's gunsmith told me the gun was unsafe to shoot but it is funny that the service department told me they would return the gun and they were fine with me continuing to shoot it. Maybe at that point I could contact an attorney. You don't suppose but you suspect huh? Just because there is a multitude of experience there means nothing if it isn't good experience. The service folks I have been dealing with have only been there a little over a year. Doesn't sound like a whole lot of experience there does it? A new hire doesn't have the experience or history for the entirety of said company.
Duly noted . . .
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Old 07-26-2016, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Michaeljlee1980 View Post
If your car has a warranty for the rest of you life like the gun has a warranty for the rest of your life that would be an accurate assumption. However it's not, so this is fairly more complicated still not rocket science either. If s&w puts a warranty on a product for the rest of your life wouldn't you expect them to uphold that warranty not just a warranty of till they run out of parts? And the same and only part that has been replaced by the way. Maybe the problem wasn't even fixed the first 2 times I sent it back to have work done only the part that had obvious damage to it could have been replaced. The way I see it is they warranty a product of X amount of $. If it fails because of them using sub-par materials numerous times that is not my fault and they would replace it with parts that cost that same amount of $.

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If the gun was that bad back in 2005, you probably should have dealt with it then.

Write them a nasty letter
Get a lawyer
Call the Better Business Bureau
Never buy another S&W product and advise others to do the same.

To me, settling would be satisfactory. You may collect but it wil cost a lot of money and time and I doubt you will get completely satisfactory results. If you can go higher up the chain and convince someone to comply, more power to you. Some people have the guts and persistence to do that. Like my sister. But I'm not that way. I cut my losses best I can and move on.

It's very possible that the company we know is fading into typical corporate-Americanism. That stuff happens.
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