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07-18-2022, 02:31 PM
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smith and wesson needs to make all their guns fde
there are many people who won't touch a black gun, but not the other way around. by making all their guns fde by default, they lose no sales, but gain all the sales from people who don't buy black guns. the will corner the market this way. the m&p 2.0 compact 3.6 inch model needs to come out in fde pronto. i don't know if they still plan to keep producing shield 2.0s after the plus came out, but they might as well finish production on the 2.0s with "limited run" fde models.
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07-18-2022, 02:33 PM
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I prefer black guns,and don’t even own a single one in FDE.
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07-18-2022, 03:07 PM
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I prefer blued, stainless, and nickel in that order.
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07-18-2022, 03:11 PM
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What is FDE ?
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07-18-2022, 03:18 PM
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I bought a 5" M&P 2.0 in FDE because my gun itch got the better of my brain.
I hated it, prefer black guns, and lost $100 when I sold it.
To each their own.
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07-18-2022, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m&p2.0fdethumbsafety
there are many people who won't touch a black gun, but not the other way around. by making all their guns fde by default, they lose no sales, but gain all the sales from people who don't buy black guns. the will corner the market this way. the m&p 2.0 compact 3.6 inch model needs to come out in fde pronto. i don't know if they still plan to keep producing shield 2.0s after the plus came out, but they might as well finish production on the 2.0s with "limited run" fde models.
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I see it as completely the opposite.
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07-18-2022, 04:56 PM
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WHAT IS FDE?
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07-18-2022, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo Jim
WHAT IS FDE?
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Flat Dark Earth (tan color)
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Last edited by Eric300; 07-18-2022 at 05:02 PM.
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07-18-2022, 05:09 PM
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I love FDE/tan/whatever we're calling it today as well as desert-ish camo paintjobs. Much more pleasant to pick up off the bench when shooting out in the sun. I also think if smith thought people would buy more guns if everything was FDE, they'd make it all FDE, but it won't, so they don't.
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07-18-2022, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laketime
What is FDE ?
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Here you go, Flat Dark Earth.
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07-18-2022, 05:55 PM
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FDE
I have more than a few, none are FDE.
I may get one in FDE, probably not.
At least we have options.
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07-18-2022, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric300
Flat Dark Earth (tan color)
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If my life depended on it I would have died a thousand deaths before I ever came up with that answer. Geeeeeez
I would not buy an FDE or a black
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Last edited by Narragansett; 07-18-2022 at 06:03 PM.
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07-18-2022, 06:04 PM
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While I like FDE, it was unpopular here, along with handguns chambered in .40 S&W, until the pandemic hit. At that time, everything sold. I have a Sig P250sc 9mm in a FDE grip module, two AR’s with FDE MagPul furniture, and FDE stocks on a Sig SP2340.
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07-18-2022, 06:29 PM
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I'm not so much against FDE colored guns, as I am them all being "striker fired". I did at one time trade into an FDE Sig 2022, and it didn't have a safety, much like the Glocks. I found the trigger to be way too sensitive for any type of serious carry.
But I'm an old foggy stuck in the old school. The color was okay with me, but I didn't trust it being on my hip without a safety. I'm to old to retrain. LOL!
Now a 4516 in FDE I might keep.
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07-18-2022, 07:04 PM
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I like Black best.
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07-18-2022, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m&p2.0fdethumbsafety
there are many people who won't touch a black gun, but not the other way around. by making all their guns fde by default, they lose no sales, but gain all the sales from people who don't buy black guns. the will corner the market this way. the m&p 2.0 compact 3.6 inch model needs to come out in fde pronto. i don't know if they still plan to keep producing shield 2.0s after the plus came out, but they might as well finish production on the 2.0s with "limited run" fde models.
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I do not own and do not forsee purchasing a handgun in FDE. Your premise is flawed.
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07-18-2022, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m&p2.0fdethumbsafety
there are many people who won't touch a black gun, but not the other way around. by making all their guns fde by default, they lose no sales, but gain all the sales from people who don't buy black guns. the will corner the market this way. the m&p 2.0 compact 3.6 inch model needs to come out in fde pronto. i don't know if they still plan to keep producing shield 2.0s after the plus came out, but they might as well finish production on the 2.0s with "limited run" fde models.
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I despise FDE guns and wouldn’t ever buy one. If you gave me one I’d sell it at a discount to get rid of it. FDE came around because people want to seem “tactical” and the military uses them. I get the military using them, since they’re being used in the desert. The civilian carrying one? No sense at all to me. I don’t view guns as fashion accessories.
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07-18-2022, 08:26 PM
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the problem with black guns is that it sticks out and can be made from a distance. it's also sensitive to nightvision and gun detection devices.
fde makes the gun look less like a gun, and from a distance it's not even detectable, it would just look like part of your clothes or your skin.
black guns are more tacticool and military, they make the gun look dangerous and aggressive. fde and other colors make it look like a tool or appliance. if everyone made their guns fde, the fear about black rifles will go away.
Last edited by m&p2.0fdethumbsafety; 07-18-2022 at 08:28 PM.
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07-18-2022, 08:57 PM
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I figure black guns are the most popular as they are by far the most produced. That being said, I like having choices/options. I have both black and FDE guns. Heck, I would be interested in buying a M&P 2.0 3.6 in ODG (olive drab green). I guess the marketing gurus at Smith & Wesson haven't seen that demand yet, oh well.
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07-18-2022, 09:00 PM
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Last edited by Eric300; 07-18-2022 at 09:02 PM.
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07-19-2022, 12:08 PM
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07-19-2022, 01:26 PM
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Absolutely not. Won't touch an FDE gun.
Should be blue, black or stainless. I might even go nickel plated if it's a BBQ gun. But never FDE.
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07-19-2022, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narragansett
If my life depended on it I would have died a thousand deaths before I ever came up with that answer. Geeeeeez
I would not buy an FDE or a black
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It is the new OD green.
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07-19-2022, 06:22 PM
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I would try a phased approach.
Step 1: Get people to accept the concept that a gun can be ugly and made of plastic.
Step 2: Get people to give a rip what color their ugly plastic gun is.
Step 3: Convince people that FDE is what they prefer to any other color.
At any odds, I’m betting black isn’t going anywhere, but FDE may continue to be offered in limited cases.
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07-19-2022, 07:55 PM
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I would likely ever own a gun in a color other than blue/black, stainless or nickel. Too gimmicky for my tastes
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07-19-2022, 07:59 PM
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I won't buy FDE. Everyone likes something different but it would really take a lot to get me to buy some of the "fancy" colors being offered. I've seen a couple of Ruger rifles I would have bought but I'm just not into FDE or the various rainbow colors that Ruger offers. I can accept plastic to a pretty large degree though. For those who like to mix their colors I guess Ruger is the way to go. That way you can have a purple sidearm and a rifle with a stock that says Mossy Oak all over the place (I think it said Mossy Oak. It might have been one of the others).
Last edited by 1sailor; 07-19-2022 at 08:05 PM.
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07-19-2022, 08:55 PM
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I prefer blued steel with wood stocks, a cylinder with six charge holes 4 or 6 inch bbl. Plastic is for water bottles and most automobiles interior parts.
Last edited by hogblue; 07-19-2022 at 08:56 PM.
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07-19-2022, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogblue
I prefer blued steel with wood stocks, a cylinder with six charge holes 4 or 6 inch bbl. Plastic is for water bottles and most automobiles interior parts.
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"Plastic is for water bottles and most automobiles interior parts."
And other disposable commodities.
On the other hand, if you use a gun defensively you'll likely have it confiscated (at least temporarily) so no big loss.
(PS: ditto on "what the heck is FDE"?)
And, what's with the title:
" smith and wesson needs to make all their guns fde"
All of them? Does that include stainless and blued steel revolvers? Seems a bit myopic to think that S&W deals only in plastic, doesn't it?
Last edited by 6string; 07-19-2022 at 09:12 PM.
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07-19-2022, 09:22 PM
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Sorry to the OP, but, FDE looks cheesy to me. Like a squirt gun. I’m not a fan of the various epoxy gun finishes.
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07-19-2022, 10:54 PM
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I have an M&P 2.0 Compact (3.6”) in FDE. They made them a couple years ago. I rather like it. If you’re going plastic I don’t see the color is going to lower it much on the generally-ugly scale.
I’ve never been a fan of anything black that I can think of, well, maybe tires? Black is no substitute for polished, blued steel.
Last edited by M29since14; 07-19-2022 at 10:55 PM.
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07-19-2022, 11:15 PM
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And pigs should learn how to fly. If they could do that they wouldn't be eaten for breakfast everyday.
S&W stock is down 46% in the last year. They need a new game plan. FDE strikers ain't it.
Colt resurrected the Python and Anaconda. Those have been selling above MSRP for awhile now. Waiting for my turn at MSRP.
The very best thing S&W could do is start building high quality revolvers again. But they won't.
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Last edited by LostintheOzone; 07-19-2022 at 11:55 PM.
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07-20-2022, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostintheOzone
The very best thing S&W could do is start building high quality revolvers again. But they won't.
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These days K frame and larger revolvers are to the gun industry what vinyl records are to the music industry. They have a small and enthusiastic group of fans that is willing to pay enough to make continued production worthwhile. But most of the market has moved on.
When I bought a 686+ a couple of months ago I had a hard time finding one in a shop. Most shops stock what people buy and that's not full size revolvers. Price is a big part of the reason revolvers don't sell well. My 686 cost 50% more than a good 9mm. Even more expensive higher quality revolvers would sell in even smaller quantities.
If you look at the 5 year history of S&W's stock price you will see it averaged around $8 to $10 pre-pandemic. It was $7.24 on January 1, 2020. After the 2020 riots it jumped to about twice that and briefly peaked at over $34 last summer before falling to its current price of $13.29, still well above the pre-pandemic price. It has an astoundingly low P/E ratio of 3.26.
They're doing just fine selling striker fired polymer pistols and J-frame snubbies.
While all of us on the internet think we know what S&W should do the stock holders are probably pretty happy with the current approach.
ETA: If anyone wants to look it up S&W is listed as SWBI on the stock market.
Last edited by Dave Lively; 07-20-2022 at 07:26 AM.
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07-20-2022, 07:48 AM
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When a company making any product suddenly starts emphasizing colors it usually means they have run out of real ways to differentiate their product from the competition.
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07-20-2022, 08:18 AM
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At one time Ford cars only came in black
I don’t want a FDE gun but I’m glad they are around for those that do
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07-20-2022, 08:20 AM
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Uhhh, NO…..
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07-20-2022, 10:51 AM
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SIG did good work in the previous decade with all of their finish combos. People would go nuts hunting for a specific model in a specific combo. They also made a dizzying array of models then, and have since mostly pulled back from this strategy. If anyone was going to go all-FDE, it would be SIG since they're almost there already with the M17/M18 contract.
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07-20-2022, 11:22 AM
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Changing the color of the polymer injected into the frame mold is easy. Changing people's minds about unusual colors is not.
And the military is constantly equipping themselves for the last war. We used black/grey M4s, M9s, M2s, M249s, etc. for 30 + years and the M17/18 came out in tan just in time to fight the next non-desert conflict.
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07-20-2022, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lively
These days K frame and larger revolvers are to the gun industry what vinyl records are to the music industry. They have a small and enthusiastic group of fans that is willing to pay enough to make continued production worthwhile. But most of the market has moved on.
When I bought a 686+ a couple of months ago I had a hard time finding one in a shop. Most shops stock what people buy and that's not full size revolvers. Price is a big part of the reason revolvers don't sell well. My 686 cost 50% more than a good 9mm. Even more expensive higher quality revolvers would sell in even smaller quantities.
If you look at the 5 year history of S&W's stock price you will see it averaged around $8 to $10 pre-pandemic. It was $7.24 on January 1, 2020. After the 2020 riots it jumped to about twice that and briefly peaked at over $34 last summer before falling to its current price of $13.29, still well above the pre-pandemic price. It has an astoundingly low P/E ratio of 3.26.
They're doing just fine selling striker fired polymer pistols and J-frame snubbies.
While all of us on the internet think we know what S&W should do the stock holders are probably pretty happy with the current approach.
ETA: If anyone wants to look it up S&W is listed as SWBI on the stock market.
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S&W isn't a well managed company as far as firearms companies go. Ruger, who still builds a lot of revolvers, has done much better than S&W over the long haul. S&W is mostly just chasing Glock and the AR market like a dozen other companies.
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07-20-2022, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m&p2.0fdethumbsafety
there are many people who won't touch a black gun, but not the other way around. by making all their guns fde by default, they lose no sales, but gain all the sales from people who don't buy black guns...
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That's a unique perspective. Wrong, but unique.
Few LE agencies approve guns for their personnel in anything but... black. LE sales drive other market sales. And for the vast majority of regular purchasers, FDE is an "acquired taste". Most never acquire it.
A few years ago, the "FDE is the new black" fad was trending. Currently, FDE is looking tired. I see few at the gun counter selecting it. Its like those matte-finish car colors of the past couple years - they will look really quaint in about 5 years.
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07-20-2022, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostintheOzone
And pigs should learn how to fly. If they could do that they wouldn't be eaten for breakfast everyday.
S&W stock is down 46% in the last year. They need a new game plan. FDE strikers ain't it.
Colt resurrected the Python and Anaconda. Those have been selling above MSRP for awhile now. Waiting for my turn at MSRP.
The very best thing S&W could do is start building high quality revolvers again. But they won't.
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The Colt Snake guns had that mystique about them and have a cult following. While I don’t think they’re anything special, I don’t see resurrecting out of production revolvers from S&W making nearly as much of a splash.
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07-20-2022, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostintheOzone
S&W isn't a well managed company as far as firearms companies go. Ruger, who still builds a lot of revolvers, has done much better than S&W over the long haul. S&W is mostly just chasing Glock and the AR market like a dozen other companies.
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All the manufacturers have been printing money for the past 2 years. You can't go by stock price in the gun industry - the market caps are relatively small, insiders control much it, and gun-control politics unfortunately play a roll with institutional investment decisions. But the balance sheets are in fine shape.
But I think it's correct to say that S&W is now less the market-leader, and more the follower. You might argue that S&W is the market-leader in making guns cheaper, and not better. In the race to the bottom, they are doing pretty well!
People have "moved on" from revolvers, in part, because good ones that actually work are 2-3x the price of plasticated pistols. The gun media - which is essentially a cadre of shills for the industry - has been pushing poly pistols ever since Glock pioneered the way to greater profit through plastic. Putting aside the relative technical merits, the bottom line IS always the bottom line: plastic, cast and MIM guns make more money for the company.
Why bother making a decent revolver, other than to serve a market that was deliberately shrunk? What's especially sad is that S&W put so much effort into re-designing their revolvers for greater durability with less cost, then ignored assembly and quality control.
No revolvers in the display case? If you are a stocking LGS, with everything in short supply and priced above normal wholesale cost, where would you spend your money to put products on the shelf? One high-priced revolver with roll-of-the-dice QC, or 2-3 pistols stamped out of the same mould? Easy answer.
S&W has become a company that makes guns, rather than a gun company.
PS. Ruger is worse
Last edited by Model 15-4ever; 07-20-2022 at 05:54 PM.
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07-20-2022, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m&p2.0fdethumbsafety
there are many people who won't touch a black gun, but not the other way around. by making all their guns fde by default, they lose no sales, but gain all the sales from people who don't buy black guns. the will corner the market this way. the m&p 2.0 compact 3.6 inch model needs to come out in fde pronto. i don't know if they still plan to keep producing shield 2.0s after the plus came out, but they might as well finish production on the 2.0s with "limited run" fde models.
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Using terms that everyone understands is helpful in the communication process.
Those letters should be capitalized as well.
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07-20-2022, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m&p2.0fdethumbsafety
there are many people who won't touch a black gun, but not the other way around. by making all their guns fde by default, they lose no sales, but gain all the sales from people who don't buy black guns. the will corner the market this way. the m&p 2.0 compact 3.6 inch model needs to come out in fde pronto. i don't know if they still plan to keep producing shield 2.0s after the plus came out, but they might as well finish production on the 2.0s with "limited run" fde models.
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Using terms that everyone understands is helpful in the communication process.
Those letters should be capitalized as well.
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07-20-2022, 07:43 PM
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US Veteran
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Join Date: May 2015
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A few years ago Colt came out with a 1911 rail gun in FDE. I wanted it bad, but of course Colt pricing was more than I was willing to pay. Figured I'd wait for the newness to wear off. It hasn't but my lust has. It would have been dandy for out here in AZ.
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07-20-2022, 07:57 PM
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I don’t care if S&W painted everything they are currently making FDE.
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213th FBINA
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07-20-2022, 08:53 PM
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I've got no preferences to colors.
I had a stainless, but got rid of that one. Now I have a Remington DLC type of coating, some black rifles, and a few different color polymer handguns, including a dark brown, gray, and a black.
I recently decided to go FDE on some of my bigger bore hunt focused ar rifles, because I figured it would be easier if I ever decided to go camo on them. It's a nice change.
As they say in the car business, a "rear end" for every seat! LOL
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John 14:6, Luke 21:11
Last edited by CustomChevyGuy; 07-20-2022 at 08:55 PM.
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07-20-2022, 08:56 PM
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i have some Olive Drab and a couple of FDE's. i prefer the Olive Drab. nothing wrong with the black either. nice to have alternatives.
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07-20-2022, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 78bagger
A few years ago Colt came out with a 1911 rail gun in FDE. I wanted it bad, but of course Colt pricing was more than I was willing to pay. Figured I'd wait for the newness to wear off. It hasn't but my lust has. It would have been dandy for out here in AZ.
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The M45 A1 was a total disaster for the USMC. When they hit GB people couldn't buy those fast enough. The last ones available were close to $2500 in poor condition. Those were desert sand finish.
Colt definitely has a following.
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That's just somebody talkin.
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07-21-2022, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostintheOzone
The M45 A1 was a total disaster for the USMC. When they hit GB people couldn't buy those fast enough. The last ones available were close to $2500 in poor condition. Those were desert sand finish.
Colt definitely has a following.
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The explanation for decommissioning of the M45A1s was never quite clear to me. The original baked on finish was a fail but Colt replaced the guns. It may have been a parts/ammo/supply chain issue or an administrative decision to withdraw them from service.
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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220
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07-21-2022, 10:01 AM
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IMHO, WHAT IS FDE. I assume it means WXPLF or NFPSA ??
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John
Last edited by OLDSTER; 07-23-2022 at 07:03 AM.
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