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  #51  
Old 08-18-2016, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by alwaysoutdoors View Post
Do you have trust issues? ... it's a $300 shield. Shoot the piss out of it. Become proficient. It may save yours or a loved ones life.
This..

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...it's not a museum piece.
and this.
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:53 PM
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If I had trust issues I would not have walked out of the store without inspecting it thoroughly, but I trusted the store I bought it from. I looked over my new gun (first I ever bought) at my home and noticed these things I thought were unusual (to my untrained eye), that is not me just immediately saying for no reason "I hope it's not used". How do you get that out of this thread It was rude, that is all your post was, nothing helpful.

I'm not trying to be rude but you sound like someone who would sell a used gun as new...
Ok. I'm sorry you think it was not helpful. I was a little rude.
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:56 PM
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Looks good to me. Hey you shoot a mag out of your gun it's a used gun. My Shield has almost a 1000 rounds through it and it runs like Day 1.
Technically speaking, it's a used gun as soon as the first person accepts the transfer of it at an FFL.
And it's a shame your gun still shoots like it did on Day 1 after all of that shootin Maybe needs a couple thousand more.
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Old 08-21-2016, 06:35 PM
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IMO it is a new gun go shoot it and have fun
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:52 PM
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Came across this thread with a Google search and saw a few pictures that looked familiar.....

I purchased my new Shield 9mm Performance Center through Grabagun on 3/15/17. I just picked up my from my FFL today and said to myself upon inspection, my lord they shipped me a well used pistol". The extended mag was in the mag well, no test fire shell, had "black grease streaks" on the mag followers, and was dripping wet with oil. This was NOT the case with my other Shield that I own (.40 S&W).

My FFL guy said, "hey, you don't have to accept that, but once you sign the paperwork we don't have any recourse with the seller". I however reluctantly filled out the paperwork after wiping it down, numerous cycling of the action, and then a few dry fires.

I headed to my office and field stripped the gun and started wiping things up. Why I didn't take pictures before I started cleaning it up, I don't know....oops. By cleaning it I mean using some paper towel to suck up the copious amounts of oil dripping from this gun, as well as cleaning the greasy marks from the mag followers, and the brass trail on the frame (it was more pronounced). Also has a very distinct brass ring on the breach.....I think that's what it's called....where the firing pin protrudes from.

I contacted Grabagun and they said, "we don't inspect the guns, we literally receive from a distributor and pass them along to the customer or FFL. They were professional and courteous, but in the end they advised to call S&W. I called S&W and they said, "that all sounds normal". The checked the serial number and said it was manufactured on 2/27/17, so the likliehood that it was used / demo'd, or whatever else is unlikely.....which I'd have to agree.

I'll get it home tonight, clean it, and then run some ammo through this bad chicken. I hope it meets my expectations, because I sure do like my other Shield in .40 S&W (my EDC gun). I was just looking to take a little "snap" out of the equation and improve my accuracy, hence the purchase of the 9mm version. The price on the PC version was just too tempting to ignore.
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  #56  
Old 03-21-2017, 05:04 PM
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it looks used to me: cooper marks on the slide, gun powder marks on the mags, feeding ramp looks like it has been polished. Guns are shot before shipping how many rounds I don't know it could be that too but too much wear and gun power could be sign that has been shoot more than one that just came out of the factory. It is still pretty much new only a month old so if it functions good and the price you paid was fair I wouldn't worry too much.


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Old 03-21-2017, 05:11 PM
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Dyno Dan,

As has been discussed a lot on several boards (and some news shows), the last state to require the fired casing has given up on the project. Just too much to deal with, both in storage space and costs.

All my Shield 9mm mags have arrived with a black china marker stripe, even new in the factory packaging.

As to grease / oil, they are lubed for storage, as they may sit in a distributor's stock for an indefinite time (months, and perhaps years).

Clean it before you head out to the range, and go have fun!
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  #58  
Old 03-21-2017, 05:19 PM
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I'll add that they've (customer service) told me in the past that they pull (random?) guns from the line and test fire them at varying numbers of rounds, then put them directly back in the box (not cleaned).

So the presence of fouling is not a surprise.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:36 PM
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I have 3 M&P pistols and none of them looked remotely like that when new. In fact they still don't.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:48 PM
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I too have 3M&P pistols Shield 9mm, 45c, and Shield 45 all have looked like this but the Shield 45 was by far the worst. No worries. Enjoy your new purchase.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:28 PM
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The date of manufacture proves that it is new.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:56 PM
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Default Is it just crud???

If it's just crud that comes off, that doesn't indicate any WEAR on it. If it showed signs of wear, either there or anywhere on the gun I'd be more worried. If it cleans up well I'd call it a new gun that has been shot some. Most likely proofing rounds.
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  #63  
Old 03-21-2017, 08:17 PM
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I keep reading posts mentioning wear
I do not see wear, I see places where the finish has rubbed off
Much ado about nothing
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  #64  
Old 03-21-2017, 08:38 PM
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I'm not aware of any federal regulation that prevents a FFL holder from selling a used firearm as new. The definition of what is new or used would be defined by individual states or court decision. There are only a few ways to tag a specific firearm serial number (sn#) to an individual. The Gun Owners Protection Act (GOPA) prevents the Federal Government from compiling lists of firearms including sn# to individuals. I'm not sure if the GOPA prevents the states from doing so. However, the Federal Government was caught doing what the GOPA specifically prohibited it from doing. The ATF, BATF, BATFE or whatever they're called these days promised not to do it any more. Whether they're still doing it or not is anybody's guess. The Gun Control Act of 1968 implemented the form 4473. Back then the form was ½ page long (now it's multi page). On it, the gun purchaser just verified with a signature the they weren't a bad guy by answering a few simple questions (less than now). Now here's the important part. The 4473 stayed with the gun shop, I think forever, The gun shop wasn't required to forward a copy to the Feds or in anyway notify the Feds that you've bought a gun. An ATF agent (not FBI or any other Federal or State Agent) could, however, demand to see the forms and record anything they might find. Copy machines didn't exist back then, but now they just copy what they want.

Assuming the Feds aren't compiling lists (I don't assume that at all). The states may be. Although, I don't know of any that admit to it. So let's assume, for a moment, that trying to link a guns sn# through the States or the Feds is a dead end. If the manufacturer requires registration of the gun's sn# to begin warranty enrollment, then that would be a source. You'd prolly need a court order to get that information. Insurance records would be another way. Again, you'd prolly need a court order to get any of those records. Crime records would be another way. Gun's serial numbers are recorded routinely during arrests. Those records are public, so you might be able to link an individual to a gun's sn# that way. Of course, the gun would have to come into contact with the police for some reason. The vast majority don't, so linking a gun to a person that way, chances would be slim.

Now, let me pose a hypothetical situation. Suppose a man concerned with rising crime in his neighborhood decides to buy a gun to protect his family & home. So, the man goes to his LGS, jumps through the appropriate hoops and brings his first handgun to home & hearth. The wife goes bat**** crazy saying, I won't have that THING in my house. We've all seen TV. I'm sure you get the gist of it. What's the guy to do? He owns it, has jumped through hoops to get it. So he goes back to the gun store to find out what his options are. The gun store guy tells the gun owner to shoot the wife and get a newer model. The guy thinks about it for half an hour and decides against that option. He might get a big fine. So then the guy remembers his state has a cooling off period for major purchases including guns. So now the LGS has to take the the gun back with a full refund. What's the LGS gonna do? He has a BNIB unfired (by owner) gun with all the trimmings. It's only been out of the shop for a few days at most. The only recorded sn# is on the 4473 he has in his possession. Also, in his bound book, which is today an editable computer entry. Unless, some other entity is keeping track, and they care, no one else knows. What would you do if you're the LGS? If I was the gun owner, I would have taken option A. If I was the LGS, I would sell it as a demonstrator and throw in a box of the cheapest ammo that would work in it. No discount on the gun I wouldn't ordinarily give. But some LGS owners are greedy, some are facing razor thin margins, some are only living hand to mouth. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I'm not saying it's right. But, bidness is bidness! All's fair in love and bidness. I'm not saying these are my ethics, but we all know the type.
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:01 PM
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I'm not aware of any federal regulation that prevents a FFL holder from selling a used firearm as new.
Well you should be. Truth in advertising has been around since at least 1911. It is administered by the Federal Trade commission. Selling a used anything as new is a lie and in violation of truth in advertising.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:09 PM
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Well you should be. Truth in advertising has been around since at least 1911. It is administered by the Federal Trade commission. Selling a used anything as new is a lie and in violation of truth in advertising.
In rereading most of the Federal Truth in Advertising laws, I don't think they apply in this case. Can you cite specific case law. Nothing is being "advertised". It's simply a gun, probably in a case that may or may not have a price on it. Small businesses tend to have wide latitude in selling their wares. Unlike medium and large businesses that spend millions on advertising budgets.
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:29 PM
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In my heydey, I bought, traded, and sold a lot of handguns. In some cases, I would buy a handgun at one dealer, and trade it on a different handgun at a different dealer before I ever fired it. Was that then a used gun? It was owned by a private citizen (me) but it was unfired. (Why did I trade a gun like that? In some cases, I got a great deal at one shop, and then found a gun I wanted more at a different shop, and the second shop gave me a good trade since I did a lot of business with them.)

I often saw guns I had traded in, unfired, in the dealer's case marked as new.

As for S&W not cleaning guns after they are test fire, I can confirm they do not. I once asked why they didn't, and this is what I was told: when the gun is finished being assembled, they test fire it to make sure it is in working order. If they disassembled it to clean it, they would have to test fire it again after reassembling it to re-certify it as in working order...so, they don't.
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:37 PM
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Thanks guys. I ran some cheap CCI aluminum stuff through it tonight and it functioned perfectly fine, except failed to hold the action open on the last round on 2 occasions (the 2 mags that were included). I also bought a spare 8 round mag and that one did hold the action open on the last round.

This was done without cleaning the gun. Once the 24 rounds were spent I gave it a good cleaning. Just need to make it go bang a few hundred more times and report back. I find the trigger to be a little gritty / less than optimal. My normal Shield 40 feels better to me.....and truth be told it only has about 35 rounds through it.....so I need to shoot that one a bunch more too!
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Old 03-22-2017, 03:07 AM
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In a couple of my M&P pistol armorer classes (5 of them, plus a Shield class) we were told that the factory fires 15 rounds through each M&P before they're shipped. Last I was told, it was done using factory test mags (not the new ones shipped with the guns), and it was done using 3 test mags loaded with 5 rounds each. They don't clean the guns.

I have no way to know anything about the particular gun you bought, or the dealer who sold it.

FWIW, I've bought new S&W's directly from the factory under their former armorer purchase program (shipped to a LE FFL dealer, of course), and some were dirtier than the one in the pics.

Oh yeah, the "sharpie" lines on the mag followers. The light colored followers get dark ink color lines, and the dark color followers get light ink color lines, so they're visible (obviously).
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Old 03-22-2017, 06:32 AM
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In rereading most of the Federal Truth in Advertising laws, I don't think they apply in this case. Can you cite specific case law. Nothing is being "advertised". It's simply a gun, probably in a case that may or may not have a price on it. Small businesses tend to have wide latitude in selling their wares. Unlike medium and large businesses that spend millions on advertising budgets.
Remind me to never buy a pistol from you (or anything else . . . )
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:40 AM
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I would expect a Performance Center gun to show a bit more wear from assembly and test firing than a gun that came off the regular production line. It's supposed to be a premium product and I'd bet they darn well want it to perform as such.
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:43 AM
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Nothing is being "advertised".
Everything being sold, by anyone, at any time, is being advertised. The simple fact that they are offering it is advertising.

"New" means it has never been sold to the public. Yes, if a guy buys a gun and then returns it, it's used, even if it's never been fired.
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Old 03-22-2017, 09:25 AM
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I would expect a Performance Center gun to show a bit more wear from assembly and test firing than a gun that came off the regular production line. It's supposed to be a premium product and I'd bet they darn well want it to perform as such.


I would agree with this statement. I'm going to run it, say 100-200 rounds and then we'll see how it feels after a break-in. Trigger definitely feels different than my normal Shield, but it is not buttery smooth like I was expecting. I noticed the little "button" in the slide assembly next to firing pin is rounded on the PC 9mm while my regular Shield 40's button is taller, and more squared off (with chamfered edges). Not sure what that is, but it's different.
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Old 04-05-2017, 10:48 PM
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Just bought 2 more, one "regular" version and another PC, but this one with night sights. Both were in the same condition as the one I purchased a few weeks ago.
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Old 04-06-2017, 08:41 AM
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Just bought 2 more, one "regular" version and another PC, but this one with night sights. Both were in the same condition as the one I purchased a few weeks ago.


IMG_0141.jpg

IMG_0140.jpg

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Old 04-06-2017, 09:39 AM
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The new ones come with packaging grease on them. It's not a lubricant just a sealer against oxidation if the pistol is stored for a long period. I would think a used one would have the grease wiped off.
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Old 04-06-2017, 09:43 AM
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Assuming you got it in the box with all the papers, etc from a reputable dealer it is new. Its condition as shown in your pics is normal; just clean it well and then go shoot it!

I picked up a new Shield 45 yesterday from my LGS via Davidson's Gallery of Guns. Its "born on date" on the box was 020617, so it is 2 months from the factory today. I broke it down to clean it before going to the range and it looked just like yours and was also wet with lube. It was FILTHY in all the normal places inside the pistol. Maybe it was the dirtiest new pistol I've ever cleaned up, but dirty is normal as is gunked up with their shipping lube.

I took it out to the range and shot 100 rounds of range ammo (Federal and white boxed NATO 230g ball, as well as Aguila). It shot flawlessly and accurately. You should see the filth on it now :-)

Headed downstairs to clean it up now.

Actually, when I picked it up from my LGS owner (who is a friend), he and I got to talking about how new owners need to go shoot a lot before complaining, and about how forums create threads of "mine too" about problems with certain pistols (which is the subject of a thread on the Shield9 on this forum).

Please relax, clean and lube your new pistol (exactly as suggested by the owner's manual) then go shoot it and have fun. Chances are more than a million to one in favor of the fact that you, like most Shield owners, will have no issues.
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  #78  
Old 06-10-2017, 02:26 AM
RickyAllenParkerJr RickyAllenParkerJr is offline
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Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun?  
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Simple and pretty good way to tell it wasn't used. The yellow, Or blue paint is still on The takedown lever. (Inside magazine well) and on the end if recoil spring. Paint wears off very fast on both. Specially the recoil spring. Both my M&Ps look just alike brand new.
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Old 06-10-2017, 02:26 AM
RickyAllenParkerJr RickyAllenParkerJr is offline
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Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun?  
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Also just noticed forum is 7 years old....
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Old 06-10-2017, 07:42 AM
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Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun?  
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this don't just apply to guns, Recently I went looking for a new Toyota in Ashland, Ky, when they didn't exactly have the one I wanted.The next day they found what I wanted and called me they did indeed find it in Evensville, IN. Asked if I would care for it having 300 miles on it as they would send a rep to get it. I told them to go ahead and was well pleased when it came in. I could tell my new 637 had been shot and when cleaned it looked as if had never been shot.I know they shoot them at the factory and glad they do....
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Old 06-10-2017, 09:21 AM
lgjhn lgjhn is offline
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Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun?  
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I just received a new 9mm Shield this past week. It came in the box exactly as the OP described his did. When I pulled it down to clean/lube it, it looked pretty much the same as his. I though nothing of it as new guns are test-fired at the factory at least 1-6 times depending on whether it has issues. My other two M&Ps looked about the same. I took it out and rattled just over 200 rounds without any issues. Came back, pulled it down and it didn't look a whole lot worse than it did when it first arrived. I say it's new....just go shoot it and enjoy. It's a sweet gun.
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Old 06-10-2017, 10:09 AM
Jupiter01 Jupiter01 is offline
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Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun?  
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For those of us who love guns, but are not "experts" in all things gunnish, this is a very enlightening thread, even it is old!

We've all heard "tales" and maybe bought a few items... guns/cameras/cars/thingamabobs...sold "as new", or new, with a bit of "kentucky windage" thrown in.

Caveat Emptor. Buy from someone you trust, or a business with a good reputation.

I'm in the market for a new gun, and find I can purchase locally through Gallery of Guns dealers at about the same price as Grabagun or any of the other on-line sellers, with inspection, so, my money may stay local, if I can find what I want.

That said, I've owned guns for many years, but still can be "taken" through insufficient knowledge. Therefore, I find forums like this one valuable. The gentleman has a right to be concerned, but the opinions here are running much in favor of his gun being new, although factory fired. That would increase my comfort level. I was looking at replacement guns today, and some of the semi-autos I saw were in definite need of cleaning AND touch-up blue..the finish had worn off a lot of the sharp edges!

I would tend to go with the majority of opinions, and just enjoy it, once it is well and truly broken in. By now, surely it is!

I didn't notice the thread was 7 years old, either. BUT! It is good to resurrect this sort of thread every so often, if only for the educational factor. Like as pointed out, there are Lots of folks like us that have not owned very many guns in our lifetimes. That's why we are here, for the education!

Last edited by Jupiter01; 06-10-2017 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 06-10-2017, 10:50 AM
apollo99 apollo99 is offline
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Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun?  
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Last week I was notified from Springfield Armory after two years my Professional 1911s were done, I paid the custom shop on Monday, I was at my LGS on Wednesday when they arrived via Fedex. When I opened both cases the FBI HRT Pros were both shot and dirty as expected, wear on the barrel shroud and the barrel end. I know these are test fired and not cleaned at Springfield, It says so right on the certificate. I would hope every gun I buy new was test fired at the factory.
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Old 06-11-2017, 11:14 PM
mnarcher mnarcher is offline
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Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun? Is this a sign I was sold a used gun?  
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All of the M&P guns I have bought have looked nothing close to that. Even one used one. There is no way that's a new gun.


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