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Old 10-03-2016, 12:35 PM
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9mm vs 45 ACP in a Shield single stack EDC pistol 9mm vs 45 ACP in a Shield single stack EDC pistol 9mm vs 45 ACP in a Shield single stack EDC pistol 9mm vs 45 ACP in a Shield single stack EDC pistol 9mm vs 45 ACP in a Shield single stack EDC pistol  
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Default 9mm vs 45 ACP in a Shield single stack EDC pistol

I know that some people need to carry an EDC pistol which carries 15 or more round, but for me, I just canít carry a brick very long. I like the S&W Shield single stack for a pistol which I would carry every day. I am OK w/ a 7 or 8 round pistol. Saying that, with the same number of rounds, would the Shield 45 be a better choice over the 9mm.
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Old 10-03-2016, 12:37 PM
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Can you shoot a 45, in a same or similar type of gun, just as fast and as accurate as you can a 9?

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Old 10-03-2016, 12:43 PM
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"I know that some people need to carry an EDC pistol which carries 15 or more round".

May I ask Why? What are they doing, and where are they going that requires a 15 round mag if they are not in law enforcement.

I carry a Shield 45 with the 6 round mag and 2
7 rounds mags for backup and feel perfectly safe....If I am going somewhere or doing something that requires more than that then I need to rethink my behavior and life style.

I guess there are some who think the gunfight at the OK corral will happen most any day....and they need to carry an AR-15.
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Old 10-03-2016, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
"I know that some people need to carry an EDC pistol which carries 15 or more round".

May I ask Why? What are they doing, and where are they going that requires a 15 round mag if they are not in law enforcement.

I carry a Shield 45 with the 6 round mag and 2
7 rounds mags for backup and feel perfectly safe....If I am going somewhere or doing something that requires more than that then I need to rethink my behavior and life style.

I guess there are some who think the gunfight at the OK corral will happen most any day....and they need to carry an AR-15.
While I carry an XDs .45 as my EDC, I'd rather carry a rifle if I could. 2-3 shots on target with a rifle is much better than 2-3 shots on target with most any handgun. Unfortunately it's not practical to carry a rifle. I understand there is the 333 average, 3 shots, 3 feet and 3 seconds for the "average" gun fight. I just don't know if a gunfight I get into will be "average"!

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Old 10-03-2016, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
"I know that some people need to carry an EDC pistol which carries 15 or more round".

May I ask Why? What are they doing, and where are they going that requires a 15 round mag if they are not in law enforcement.

I guess there are some who think the gunfight at the OK corral will happen most any day....and they need to carry an AR-15.
I can see the need for 15 rounds, if you ever encounter a mob/demonstration situation, you might have to fight your way out of.

It's becoming common in Detroit, in recent years, when you're involved in a traffic accident, a large group of angry, aggressive neighbors, family, and bystanders, begin to gang up, and seek to get revenge, and carry out their own type of street justice, right then, and there!

Then there are the pro/anti-gun demonstrations, political demonstrations, that you can find yourself unexpectedly involved, at some level. Mall, church, event mass shootings, etc.

That being said, I typically carry a 5-shot J-frame, with two loads of additional ammo. If I know in advance, I'm going to be passing through a high-threat area, in addition to the 640, I bring a 686 Plus, for the truck gun. Both guns share the same ammo. I have to go into Flint, MI on occasions, and they have gangs, and they don't have a very responsive police department. So if you encounter trouble, you're likely on your own. The PD shows up later to do the paper work, and haul away the body.

So back on the OP's topic, if you carry a single stack semi-auto, just carry a couple extra mags. This balances the weight better on your belt, than a really heavy pistol on one side, with nothing on the other side.

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Old 10-03-2016, 01:18 PM
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Old 10-03-2016, 01:26 PM
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The other thing I have discovered is the 9C is almost the same size as my 45 Shield. It is slightly heavier due to the extra rounds but as has been mentioned a couple of spare mags on the opposite side of your gun belt should balance things nicely. I have worked the trigger in both and really like both of them. There is one plus on the side of the 9C as it comes with extra removable backstraps to tailor the fit to your hand. You can also replace them with custom stippled backstraps for an even better grip.
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Old 10-03-2016, 01:52 PM
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I agree with you 100%.
My old duty weapon was a S&W40c. A heavy load in its Galco IWB holster.
This was the exact pistol the Glock sued S&W over,,,,and won a 7 million dollar award plus the lawyer and court costs.
I can only carry it during the Winter months in a jacket pocket.
My daily carry is a Kel-Tec P-11 9mm with a finger extension magazine holding a total of 11 rounds plus one in the chamber, which is 12 rounds of hollow-points.
This being a "striker fired" pistol. allows safety with one round chambered.
About once a year I fire it at our range.
Never a stoppage or problem.
Since I am now too old for fisticuffs or martial arts, this pistol and my knowledge is my protection when away from the safety of my abode.
This is very common here in Texas for my age group.
When I drive afar to a gun show or shopping, another weapon is in the car available. This is also very common here in Henderson County, TX., and around the Cedar Creek Lake areas.
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Old 10-03-2016, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
"I know that some people need to carry an EDC pistol which carries 15 or more round".

May I ask Why? What are they doing, and where are they going that requires a 15 round mag if they are not in law enforcement.

I carry a Shield 45 with the 6 round mag and 2
7 rounds mags for backup and feel perfectly safe....If I am going somewhere or doing something that requires more than that then I need to rethink my behavior and life style.

I guess there are some who think the gunfight at the OK corral will happen most any day....and they need to carry an AR-15.
So this is the correct amount to carry, then? 20, in 3 mags, as opposed to 15 in the gun?
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Old 10-03-2016, 02:58 PM
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So this is the correct amount to carry, then? 20, in 3 mags, as opposed to 15 in the gun?
As so apply stated below...."So back on the OP's topic, if you carry a single stack semi-auto, just carry a couple extra mags. This balances the weight better on your belt, than a really heavy pistol on one side, with nothing on the other side. "

I fell quite sure "most" defensive carriers also carry one or two extra mags....so there is no correct amount as you put it...but 45 is excessive for SD carry unless...........you like to live dangerously and go places you have no business going.
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Old 10-03-2016, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
"I know that some people need to carry an EDC pistol which carries 15 or more round".

May I ask Why? What are they doing, and where are they going that requires a 15 round mag if they are not in law enforcement.

I carry a Shield 45 with the 6 round mag and 2
7 rounds mags for backup and feel perfectly safe....If I am going somewhere or doing something that requires more than that then I need to rethink my behavior and life style.

I guess there are some who think the gunfight at the OK corral will happen most any day....and they need to carry an AR-15.
So why are you carrying 21 (TWENTY + ONE) rounds? You have 3 mags totaling TWENTY ONE rounds. I have one mag of 15 rounds (15 + 1). You're carrying more rounds than I am and more rounds then those you whom you think are expecting a gunfight at the OK corral. SOOOOO..... What's the difference? Besides you actually carrying more then those you're making fun of for doing the same?

Now, as to why I carry more they what you think i need (despite actually carrying more than me). I own 2 small handguns. A S&W snub nose 5 shot 38spl and a Glock 43 6+1. I like both for what they offer..... a purpose when clothing dictate extreme concealment. Aside from that I don't really care for them. Both are too small to grip fast or comfortably.

Your Shield 45 weights 22oz empty (no loaded weight listed but 7 rounds of 45 will put it close to 30oz) and is 1.05 thick

My G19 is 23.6oz empty/30.3 oz loaded and 1.18 thick.

Glock is overall a bit longer. It conceals great

Soooo .... For more or less the same thickness and weight I carry 15 rounds in one mag where as you carry 20 rounds in 3 mags.

I carry that because I'm not retired and I don't stay within 5 miles of my home. I live in a very low crime upper middle class area. I work 25 miles away in a township with a crime problem. Im single and like night life so I go to the city. Generally it's safe but can be dangerous when a lot of people are out partying. Occasionally work related i need to go to other places around the city that sent always in great areas. I don't have a crystal ball to tell me when that would be. For example, it happened last Thursday at 4pm.

So I'll carry my 15 round high capacity handgun awaiting the day I'll be asked to join the OK corral and you carry your low(er) capacity 20 round handgun and assume that it's you not them

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Old 10-03-2016, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
"I know that some people need to carry an EDC pistol which carries 15 or more round".

May I ask Why? What are they doing, and where are they going that requires a 15 round mag if they are not in law enforcement.

I carry a Shield 45 with the 6 round mag and 2
7 rounds mags for backup and feel perfectly safe....If I am going somewhere or doing something that requires more than that then I need to rethink my behavior and life style.

I guess there are some who think the gunfight at the OK corral will happen most any day....and they need to carry an AR-15.
So you carry 21 rounds?? what may i ask is the difference? Having 15 rounds at the ready? or 14 rounds on stand by.
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:12 PM
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So why are you carrying 21 (TWENTY + ONE) rounds? You have 3 mags totaling TWENTY ONE rounds. I have one mag of 15 rounds (15 + 1). You're carrying more rounds than I am and more rounds then those you whom you think are expecting a gunfight at the OK corral. SOOOOO..... What's the difference? Besides you actually carrying more then those you're making fun of for doing the same?

Now, as to why I carry more they what you think i need (despite actually carrying more than me). I own 2 small handguns. A S&W snub nose 5 shot 38spl and a Glock 43 6+1. I like both for what they offer..... a purpose when clothing dictate extreme concealment. Aside from that I don't really care for them. Both are too small to grip fast or comfortably.

Your Shield 45 weights 22oz empty (no loaded weight listed but 7 rounds of 45 will put it close to 30oz) and is 1.05 thick

My G19 is 23.6oz empty/30.3 oz loaded and 1.18 thick.

Glock is overall a bit longer. It conceals great

Soooo .... For more or less the same thickness and weight I carry 15 rounds in one mag where as you carry 20 rounds in 3 mags.

I carry that because I'm not retired and I don't stay within 5 miles of my home. I live in a very low crime upper middle class area. I work 25 miles away in a township with a crime problem. Im single and like night life so I go to the city. Generally it's safe but can be dangerous when a lot of people are out partying. Occasionally work related i need to go to other places around the city that sent always in great areas. I don't have a crystal ball to tell me when that would be. For example, it happened last Thursday at 4pm.

So I'll carry my 15 round high capacity handgun awaiting the day I'll be asked to join the OK corral and you carry your low(er) capacity 20 round handgun and assume that it's you not them

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Well first..... this has nothing to do with total rounds carried.
My question was why carry 15 rounds in a handgun. It will by necessity be double stack, heavy(ier) than a single stack weapon of the same caliber. Do I think 6+1 is adequate for SD carry....No I do not...but I see no need to carry a heavy double stack handgun what-so-ever.....but some do and that's ok....but I still ask why?
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
"I know that some people need to carry an EDC pistol which carries 15 or more round".

May I ask Why? What are they doing, and where are they going that requires a 15 round mag if they are not in law enforcement.

I carry a Shield 45 with the 6 round mag and 2
7 rounds mags for backup and feel perfectly safe....If I am going somewhere or doing something that requires more than that then I need to rethink my behavior and life style.

I guess there are some who think the gunfight at the OK corral will happen most any day....and they need to carry an AR-15.
So you carry 21 rounds?? what may i ask is the difference? Having 15 rounds at the ready? or 14 rounds on stand by.
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:28 PM
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Well first..... this has nothing to do with total rounds carried.
My question was why carry 15 rounds in a handgun. It will by necessity be double stack, heavy(ier) than a single stack weapon of the same caliber. Do I think 6+1 is adequate for SD carry....No I do not...but I see no need to carry a heavy double stack handgun what-so-ever.....but some do and that's ok....but I still ask why?
Because the weight of our two chosen gun are still the same. The difference loaded is about 2oz. To give you an idea, your unloaded mag weighs the same. That's the difference in weight

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Old 10-03-2016, 04:45 PM
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So being in mass we have a 10 round limit....period, which makes me re think this a little differently than
someone who can carry a gen 4 G19. In mass I can't even get one
I had been carrying a shield for the last year or so but I recently picked up a 9C and in a Stealthgear "mini" have
found it to be just as easy to conceal as my shield in it's Onyx and really almost as comfy.
8+1 vs 10+1? I'm starting to lean towards the 9C. In the summer the shield will win because it is overall
a bit easier to conceal, but for the other 7-8 months? Not a problem.
It's a little thicker than the shield but their overall dimensions are so close I've come to look at the 9C
as just a double stack shield.
With either gun I carry one spare mag (8 or 10 rounds respectively)
If I ever even need to grab that spare mag......I'm in deep doody and need to
rethink some of my decision making.
Now 9 vs 45 is a different issue. I carry an XDM 3.8C .45 occasionally (I love that gun) but
that is a bit heavier and would not be my first choice as an EDC.
That's my "in the woods" carry or under a winter coat choice.
Again 10 rounds or 9 with the flush mag.

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Old 10-03-2016, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
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Well first..... this has nothing to do with total rounds carried.
My question was why carry 15 rounds in a handgun. It will by necessity be double stack, heavy(ier) than a single stack weapon of the same caliber. Do I think 6+1 is adequate for SD carry....No I do not...but I see no need to carry a heavy double stack handgun what-so-ever.....but some do and that's ok....but I still ask why?
So if 6 is to little and 15 is to much whats your recommended carry round count? Once you get past 8 rounds you get into double stack mag, Glock 26/27 comes into mind

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Old 10-03-2016, 04:57 PM
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So if 6 is to little and 15 is to much whats your recommended carry round count? Once you get past 8 rounds i think you jump into the double stack category. Like the Glock 27/26 platform
I carried the 19 and the 26....both to heavy and IMO hard to conceal at appendix position...Shield 45 fits appendix in size and weight just fine....2 extra mags on opposite side is comfortable...3 would not be...one would be ok also but I have 2 and a double mag pouch so there you go......carry 100 if you so desire...still don't see the need for a SD handgun with a mag count over 10 and I am trying to address this from a comfort position not a firepower position....enough said....
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Old 10-03-2016, 05:09 PM
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I suggested to S&W a 9C with a Shield upper.

And to Glock, a G26 with a G43 upper.
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Old 10-03-2016, 05:10 PM
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Compensating for low round count by carrying multiple reloads is flawed thinking IMO. The idea that you'll likely be able to reload in a civilian self-defense encounter is not realistic. These are almost always reactive close-quarter events which are generally resolved with what is in the gun. I'm talking pure self-defense, not cases of voluntarily intervention. The majority of defensive shootings are over quickly and involve very few rounds being fired, so I'm fine carrying a snub revolver. There are exceptions, but they are extremely rare and I'm ok playing the odds based on stats to gain the ECQ advantages of the hammerless snub. If I truly felt I needed more rounds or wanted to be prepared for those exceptions, I would carry a higher capacity weapon rather than think I can carry multiple reloads to make up the difference.
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Old 10-03-2016, 05:31 PM
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Go to the range, fire multiple shots at multiple targets, differing distances, using multiple positions. Then choose which one consistently had you center mass to terminate the threat. Buy it. Carry it...and always be training.


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Old 10-03-2016, 05:55 PM
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This debate always makes me think.......belt fed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-03-2016, 06:22 PM
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I will be the first to say I probably don't know as much as a lot of the members of this Forum.....I do know that the best tool is only as good as the person using it. IF you are comfortable with the .45 fine. If you are comfortable with the 9 or a wheel gun fine. But whatever you choose, NOTHING will go "the way you planned" when it happens.
IMO practice and lots of it are the most important......for me, for this reason, I went with a nine. It is just "cheaper" to buy more ammo and practice more...also easier to carry...IMO.
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Old 10-03-2016, 06:29 PM
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I carried the 19 and the 26....both to heavy and IMO hard to conceal at appendix position...Shield 45 fits appendix in size and weight just fine....2 extra mags on opposite side is comfortable...3 would not be...one would be ok also but I have 2 and a double mag pouch so there you go......carry 100 if you so desire...still don't see the need for a SD handgun with a mag count over 10 and I am trying to address this from a comfort position not a firepower position....enough said....
Belt and Holster combo are the key, with the right combo you can effectively conceal a S&W Md 29. My EDC for years was a Gen4 G23 with a spare mag. concealed very easily in a blade tech IWB holster summer or winter. Forgive me but your Logic is somewhat flawed, I read on the forum some dudes in Texas who carry G22 with 2 spare bags and a G27 as a Bug.
to be honest it dosent matter to me what people carry as long as they carry

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Old 10-03-2016, 07:27 PM
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Glock 26 loaded (26.xx oz) is an ounce lighter than the Shield 45 (27.xx oz).

Most people can't tell the weight difference in 1 oz. But heavier it is not.

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Old 10-03-2016, 07:43 PM
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While everyone might be focusing on the perfect number of rounds to carry with you that's not the OP's question. He more or less stated that he wants a single stack gun, specifically the Shield, and asked for opinions concerning either 45 or 9. The question wasn't about is 6,7 or 8 enough but which gun is preferred.

That said, someone else asked a good question. Can you get back on target with the 45 as well as the 9? If not, the 9 is probably the better choice. If you do have to defend yourself with it, getting quick shot on target is what you will need. I won't matter how big the holes you punch in the air are if you miss. Also, after reviewing the ammo testing on Luck Gunner, I gained quite a bit more confidence in the 9mm over the .45 in short barreled guns. In that narrow use case, there seemed to better more reliable penetration and expansion without over penetration and failure to expand. JMHO
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Old 10-03-2016, 08:07 PM
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Nothing wrong with a 9mm...
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Old 10-03-2016, 08:21 PM
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I would go with the 9mm. The 9x19 version has been out awhile now and is proven with the bugs worked out The .45 ACP shield is bigger. There is negligible differences in practical effectiveness in the context of defensive use between the two rounds. 9mm is generally more controllable on smaller guns than larger calibers. 9mm ammo is cheaper and more readily available.
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Old 10-03-2016, 08:24 PM
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Seems to me there is another question as well. The .45 is a lot of mass to accelerate out of a short barrel in the shield. I wonder if the 9 is more effective out of a shield? If one is set on .45 would the compact not be a better choice?


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Old 10-03-2016, 08:47 PM
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After getting the 45, I might as well throw the 9 away. I could care less about it (the 9mm). My opinion of course. Feel free to disagree. As to control & follow ups, I do believe that those making comments should actually shoot the 45 Shield. It's much different than we'd expect. Sure surprised me! Seems that many others feel the same as I do.
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Old 10-03-2016, 08:49 PM
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Seems to me there is another question as well. The .45 is a lot of mass to accelerate out of a short barrel in the shield. I wonder if the 9 is more effective out of a shield? If one is set on .45 would the compact not be a better choice?


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That is what I was thinking when I saw the testing info on Lucky Gunner. Seems an advantage from a larger slug with .45 is diminished when fired from a shorter barrel.
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Old 10-03-2016, 10:36 PM
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i read those lucky gunner results different. It seems as though several 230 grain JHP (Federal HST's and Winchester SXT) performed very well out of short barrels. Velocity, penetration and expansion was right up there, IMO and IMO ONLY, the 45 is a more effective round than the 9mm again IMO ONLY.
I wanna make that clear before the 9mm fan boys turn this into a caliber war thread.

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Old 10-03-2016, 11:19 PM
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The LG test showed how various ammo performed in the same media. This is where you can see which ammo (I know it wasn't a large selection out of what is available to us) performed better out of a specific size gun. Kinda shows that despite having a hole in the center not all hollow points are the same

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Old 10-04-2016, 01:07 AM
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In my 45 Shield I carry 160 grain Barnes TAC-XP handloads loaded to +P specs from Barnes. This is an all copper bullet which is almost identical in length to a conventional 230 grain hollow point but much faster. I know it is a more expensive bullet but then what is your life worth. The recoil is very low with this load in fact almost comparable to a 124 grain +P+ out of a 9mm.
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Old 10-04-2016, 01:31 AM
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I would say try and shoot both pistols, pick the one you shoot better, practice often, and carry every day.


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Old 10-04-2016, 09:54 AM
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Can't remember anyone ever saying they wish they had less ammo when things went bad.

Ok with that out of the way the best advice you've been given is to pick the one you'll shoot best. Now that's not always possible to determine prior to purchase but generally which ever fits or feels best in your hand will be the one to get.

During cooler months I frequently carry a full size M&P in 9 loaded with Federal HST ammo. With the small backstrap and Talon wrap around grip it fits my hand perfectly.

I've had a 9mm Shield in the past, worked great for me, didn't carry it more than other options so off it went in a trade. I'll probably get another one, probably in 9 as when I tried a friend's .45 last weekend I didn't shoot it was well as the 9. I should also state that most of the time I carry a 5" 1911 in an iwb holster so what do I know?
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Old 10-04-2016, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MP1SG View Post
i read those lucky gunner results different. It seems as though several 230 grain JHP (Federal HST's and Winchester SXT) performed very well out of short barrels. Velocity, penetration and expansion was right up there, IMO and IMO ONLY, the 45 is a more effective round than the 9mm again IMO ONLY.
I wanna make that clear before the 9mm fan boys turn this into a caliber war thread.
Well, it is all up to interpretation. I looking at those Federals I only see one bullet that penetrated close to 18" and that was the one that failed to expand. One round just barely made the 12" minimum. The Winchester T-Series looked better IMO, but still a little light on penetration but they all expanded and nothing over penetrated. I betting that out of a 5" barrel the extra velocity would have helped in that regard. Those are probably what I'd be looking at to carry in a compact .45. The PDX-1 and Ranger bonded both had some pretty significant over penetration due to failure to expand so I'd steer clear of them.

I'm not going to tell anyone to NOT carry a .45 but after reading this I certainly do not feel that a 9mm is under gunned at all in a short barreled handgun. And while I know the OP question was based on the assumption of both guns having the same number of rounds I don't think that's the best way to consider it. The ability to carry more rounds is one of the advantages of the 9mm it should be a consideration with trying to decide between the two.
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Old 10-04-2016, 10:25 AM
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I have both and I prefer the .45 over the 9mm.

First I like handguns in calibers that begin with point four. I prefer the more aggressive grip texture on the 45. The slightly longer grip frame fits my paw much better. I shoot the 45 a bit better.

Now if S&W comes out with a 9mm with the more aggressive grip texture and grip length of the 45 with the increased 9mm capacity that might come with that I would be really torn.
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Old 10-04-2016, 01:34 PM
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I don't really know how old the OP of this thread is but I will be 74 tomorrow. I am about 5 ft. 9 in. tall and weigh 175#. So I'm not huge by any means. At present I am wearing denim cargo shorts and carrying a 45 Shield in a Jel Tec Holster AIWB and a M&P 9C in my right front pocket. That's not something I plan on doing all the time but it is not uncomfortable. Not sitting at my desk as I type or up walking around or moving around. So I suppose I don't really understand the problem. Carry what you like and shoot well and don't worry about it. After all you may well be a part of the majority who carry every day and never have to draw your pistol in self-defense. I pray that you are.
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Old 10-04-2016, 05:00 PM
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Speaking strictly from a caliber perspective, there are loadings in both 9mm and .45 ACP that can be reasonably expected to expand and penetrate a minimum of 12" when fired from short barrels. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Take your pick.

I chose the .45 Shield over the 9mm version for one reason and one reason only: Ergonomics. The former just fits my hand better. Had the latter been made in the dimensions of the .45 version, I would've chosen that instead.

My view is that in any plausible self-defense scenario, we're more likely to run out of time before we run out of ammo. That being said, I think we should carry what works "best" for our perceived threat level. If a J-frame fits the bill, great. Feel undergunned with anything less than a G19? So be it. There are no "one size fits all" solutions to personal defense.
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Old 10-04-2016, 08:23 PM
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I am the owner of a Shield 9mm and a Shield .45 which I just shot today. I shot 50 rounds of Remington 230 grain H.P. through it and all I can say is this thing is a *****cat. The trigger is vastly improved and the new grips flat work. I shoot it he best of my 3 single stacks. Rapid double taps are a breeze. If you have to rent or borrow one of each and shoot them to see what you shoot best. Don't assume the .45 will be hard to control until yo try one.
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Old 10-04-2016, 08:25 PM
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CoMF
great point (Run out of time before we run out of ammo) great analogy to a gun fight.
I also prefer the Shield 45 to the Shield 9mm/40 (Yes I have both and have shot both) The 45 version is totally controllable, more so than one might imagine, for some reason this shield 45 fits my hand better, even though the Shield 9mm was a good fit the Shield 45 is a great fit.
I also think and will take this to my grave that the 45 regarldess of barely length or bullet weight out performs any 9mm on the market today. Thats just my opinion
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Old 10-04-2016, 08:38 PM
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CoMf
you make a great point by stating "you'll run outta time before you run outta ammo"
I to prefer the Shield 45 over the Shield 9mm/40 (Yes I have both and have shot both)
The Shield 45 is totally controllable even with the SXT 230+P rounds. The shield 9mm fits my hand good, But the Shield 45 fits my hand much much better. And I'll take this to my dam grave, The 45 acp REGARDLESS of bullet weight or barrel length will out perform the 9mm. And REGARDLESS of the FBI findings and tests.
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Old 10-04-2016, 09:15 PM
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Reliability is first and foremost in a defensive handgun. The 9mm shield has been around awhile and proven whereas the .45 ACP version is much too new to make that declaration.

I would also assert that 9mm's are generally more reliable overall than .45's, especially in smaller weapons. Just my opinion based on observation, experience and input from others over the years rather than based on hard evidence and stats, so take that what's it's worth. Research it and see what you come up with.

And "shoot better" can mean very different things depending on who you ask. It should be in context of what you would likely have to do in an actual defensive scenario rather than static range work. For me, it essentially means being able to dynamically access the weapon and reliably put multiple rounds on target quickly all while in movement, including one handed firing at relatively close range. Nearly everyone can do that better with a 9mm then they can with a .45 ACP in equivelant sized guns and similar platforms.
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Old 10-04-2016, 10:29 PM
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The M&P platform is a great platform be it a Shield 9mm 40 or 45 acp. Full size or compact. Its an M&P period a tried and proven weapon.
Dynamically access the weapon?? I can dynamically access my Jframe as easily as i can access my Shield. Multiple rounds on target? I'd much rather put 3 45 acp rounds on target than 3 9mm rounds on target. And if those 3 45 acp rounds were 1/3 of a second slower than the 9mm, I'LL gladly take that. and the fact that the 9mm is more reliable in a smaller weapon than the 45acp is totally and absolutely inaccurate. My shield 45 is every bit as reliable as my Shield 9mm. My 3 1/2" Kimber 1911 is just as reliable as my 5" government model. Thats kinda like saying my 2 1/2" S&W Md 66 is Not as reliable as my 4" Md 66 totally absurd statement
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Old 10-04-2016, 10:44 PM
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Reliability is first and foremost in a defensive handgun. The 9mm shield has been around awhile and proven whereas the .45 ACP version is much too new to make that declaration.

I would also assert that 9mm's are generally more reliable overall than .45's, especially in smaller weapons. Just my opinion based on observation, experience and input from others over the years rather than based on hard evidence and stats, so take that what's it's worth. Research it and see what you come up with.

And "shoot better" can mean very different things depending on who you ask. It should be in context of what you would likely have to do in an actual defensive scenario rather than static range work. For me, it essentially means being able to dynamically access the weapon and reliably put multiple rounds on target quickly all while in movement, including one handed firing at relatively close range. Nearly everyone can do that better with a 9mm then they can with a .45 ACP in equivelant sized guns and similar platforms.
My XDM 45 5.25 barrel has always done better accuracy wise, than any of my 9mms. Have had three. S&W, Glock, & Beretta. When I picked up the 45 Shield, I was hoping for the best, but didn't expect it to be near the level of the XDM. As it turns out, and has turned out for so many other Shield 45 owners................is that accuracy far exceeds what I expected.
Re-coil is a non-event. So I'd say no, nearly everyone doesn't do better with a 9mm. It appears that many other Shield 45 owners are saying the same.
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Old 10-05-2016, 08:55 AM
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And REGARDLESS of the FBI findings and tests.
Shoot what you want, both will get the job done I believe but don't forget that the FBI findings were based on studying what happened in actual situations one where human being shot another. And it considered more than just the effectiveness of a single shot on target. In fact it focused on the fact that most shots fired were NOT on target and therefor completely ineffective in stopping the threat. Being able to reliably hit the target and make accurate follow-up shots proved to be more important than the terminal performance on target.
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Old 10-05-2016, 09:14 AM
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And how many FBI findings & tests involved the new M&P Shield 45?
Probably zero. Much can be said about shots not hitting the target, and follow up shots.

Thing is, this new 45 is easy on recoil. It packs a punch, and is amazingly accurate for a short barreled 45. Findings of the past, mean nothing at this point, since it's a new gun with exceptional characteristics, that we're all discussing here.
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Old 10-05-2016, 10:55 AM
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I don't really know how old the OP of this thread is but I will be 74 tomorrow. I am about 5 ft. 9 in. tall and weigh 175#. So I'm not huge by any means. At present I am wearing denim cargo shorts and carrying a 45 Shield in a Jel Tec Holster AIWB and a M&P 9C in my right front pocket. That's not something I plan on doing all the time but it is not uncomfortable. Not sitting at my desk as I type or up walking around or moving around. So I suppose I don't really understand the problem. Carry what you like and shoot well and don't worry about it. After all you may well be a part of the majority who carry every day and never have to draw your pistol in self-defense. I pray that you are.
To answer your question I happen to be 70...71 in Feb 2017. Not that I can understand why age has anything to do with this post ??????
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Old 10-05-2016, 11:56 AM
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Shoot what you want, both will get the job done I believe but don't forget that the FBI findings were based on studying what happened in actual situations one where human being shot another. And it considered more than just the effectiveness of a single shot on target. In fact it focused on the fact that most shots fired were NOT on target and therefor completely ineffective in stopping the threat. Being able to reliably hit the target and make accurate follow-up shots proved to be more important than the terminal performance on target.
if more shots were NOT on target Perhaps they should spend more time on the range. So if there were shots NOT on target it dosent matter if it was a 9mm 45 5.56mm or a rifled slug if the rounds don't hit the intended target then they are useless.
again I'd rather have 2 45acp rounds on target rather 2 9mm rounds on target
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