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Old 01-02-2017, 01:51 PM
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Default milling a Shield Recomendations?

I bought a second PC Shield. When it gets here, I'm going to send out my current EDC PC Shield and have it milled for a Jpoint reflex sight.

I'm looking at Suarez International, Bowie Tactical, and Galloway Precision. Bowie Tactical is quite a bit more than the other 2 but they mill in Bosses for the sight so I see the added expense, but not sure I need it. Advantage of the Bosses are, it "probably" won't need to be readjusted after removal and reinstall for battery change, but you need to check anyway. The other 2 are just about the same price, but Galloway has the best turnaround time.

I've heard pretty good things about all 3 and not any bad.

Anyone have a recommendation or warning?
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Old 01-02-2017, 03:38 PM
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I've never seen a tiny pistol with an optic on it. I wonder how this will affect the function?
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Old 01-02-2017, 03:41 PM
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I don't think it is doable, the slide is too thin, also it is not even practical on a small frame like the shield.

Last edited by Shield9mm; 01-02-2017 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 01-02-2017, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
I've never seen a tiny pistol with an optic on it. I wonder how this will affect the function?
There is actually quite a bit of meat on the top of the Sheild slide, obviously they don't get into the workings. The Jpoint weighs only 1/2 once. No complaints from the ones that have been done that I've seen.
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Old 01-02-2017, 03:50 PM
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Speaking from inexperience here, but couldn't you use the JPoint M&P dovetail adapter?
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Old 01-02-2017, 04:02 PM
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Speaking from inexperience here, but couldn't you use the JPoint M&P dovetail adapter?
yes you could, if you wanted to. Milling the slide, lowers the axis to the barrel, allows for co-witnessing of the stock sights, keeps it more compact, and definitely seems more secure to me. Also adds to the appearance rather than detract IMHO.
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Old 01-02-2017, 04:22 PM
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I don't think it is doable, the slide is too thin, also it is not even practical on a small frame like the shield.


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Old 01-02-2017, 04:25 PM
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I have a Vortex Viper on a PC 9L with tall suppressor sights that co-witness, you would have to cut really deep to co-witness with stock PC shield sights.
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Old 01-02-2017, 04:30 PM
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I have a Vortex Viper on a PC 9L with tall suppressor sights that co-witness, you would have to cut really deep to co-witness with stock PC shield sights.
As I said the Shield is pretty meaty on the top, and that is only half of the equation. If the base of the sight were paper thin you would need to mill at all to do it. The jpoint has a very low height on the base. All three of the companies in my OP confirmed it will co-witness with stock sights.
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Old 01-02-2017, 04:38 PM
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I think it would be worth the extra $ to get bosses put in. There is a lot of force on the optic from the slide moving. It should keep the optic in place and hold zero better.
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Old 01-02-2017, 04:43 PM
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I ran across Bowie Tactical the other day and seen the Shield with the reflex on it, looks interesting.

Keep us posted it once you do it.
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Old 01-02-2017, 04:55 PM
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More inexperience here sorry........Seems an odd modification for a handgun designed for back up or concealment, and, aren't reflex sights designed for competition guns?
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Old 01-02-2017, 05:13 PM
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More inexperience here sorry........Seems an odd modification for a handgun designed for back up or concealment, and, aren't reflex sights designed for competition guns?
almost everyone will at some point suffer from presbyopia. In my case it's gotten to the point where I cannot see the sights clearly enough with my glasses on,and I can't see the target well enough further than 10 yards without my glasses. Anything more than 4 feet is very clear with glasses, yet starts getting fuzzy without.

The reflex sight changes the point of focus for both sight and target to the targets distance. Once you get used to the reflex sight it is faster acquisition which is why it is well received in competition. In an SD situation, you are able to keep your focus on a target, both eyes open, full field of view, and therefore greater awareness of surroundings. While someone is focused on their front sight, it's not as easy...and when your eyes are old even harder still.
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Old 01-02-2017, 05:24 PM
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Here is a Glock 26 with a J Point milled. Picture from Suarez blog. I am not sure who the owner of the pistol is, but the pistol has a threaded barrel and proper sights for the red dot (or a suppressor).
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Old 01-02-2017, 05:39 PM
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More inexperience here sorry........Seems an odd modification for a handgun designed for back up or concealment, and, aren't reflex sights designed for competition guns?
I suspect the original purpose was for competition. The "forward thinking" on the topic, however, is that red dot optics will start to slowly appear on defense pistols, first in the private sector, and then gradually into agency use.

The US Military would not have anything to do with optics on combat rifles 20 years ago, even as the Steyr AUG and the Enfield AA80 and others were being fielded. Now, however, every soldier in the field has an optic of some type, whether it is Aimpoint or Trijicon, or "other." In fact, it would be almost unthinkable to send a soldier into battle without an optic on his rifle.

The same advantages are there for pistols, and I think red dots on defense pistols and LE pistols are the coming thing. Both eyes can remain open, the field of view is wider, the shooter can keep eyes on the target, etc.

As is typical with these types of roll-outs, the gun makers have no clue how to market the idea, the focus now being on competition use.

As soon as an agency of at least moderate size issues pistols with red dots, and as soon as other agencies see that the devices can stand up to LE use and that they improve the scores of the troops, especially the low-end shooters, the agencies will begin the process of adopting the devices.

Just my thoughts and prediction.
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Old 01-02-2017, 06:25 PM
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If this is purely a self-defense/concealed carry pistol, my recommendation would be to not waste your money.

The red dot will be of no real value in any likely civilian self-defense scenario involving using a concealed firearm due to the compressed time frames and close distances. Suarez himself has essentially said the same in numerous statements.

If proactively engaging terrorists and active shooters is on your list of things to do, then it might have some merit, but I would recommend going with a different pistol altogether rather than a tiny, single stack Shield.
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Old 01-02-2017, 06:35 PM
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I should have been more clear I apologize. My mistake has taken the thread off topic.

I'm asking for recommendations, or any experience with a gunsmithing machine shop that does this type of work and/or any feedback on the 3 mentioned in the OP.
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Old 01-02-2017, 07:26 PM
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Actually, I should apologize, having taken the initial "exit ramp" from your topic, prompted by my curiosity and pre conceived notions about the reflex sight.
As Briscoe Darling would say, "more power to ya."
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Old 01-02-2017, 09:22 PM
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almost everyone will at some point suffer from presbyopia.
Ain't that the truth. I have the same issue.

Thanks for posting those pictures. I had never seen one before.

I've heard very good things about Bowie. I haven't had any work done by them myself, but those I know that have (internet conversations), have been very pleased with their work.
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Old 02-09-2017, 07:33 PM
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So, did you go with Bowie or? I'm shopping around for a place to mill a slide for an RMR install.

One place I am looking at is AETi. ATEi | Turning good guns into combat weapons systems

I called the company yesterday to ask a few questions. Great experience. The lady who answered the phone was patient, knowledgeable, courteous, and offered no pressure to order anything. Just happy to answer my questions.

The online reviews I've seen concerning AETI are overwhelmingly positive. My own very brief experience is very good. Don't know if they do the Shield mod you want or not, but might be worth a call over there. Nice folks.

BTW, thanks to Steved13 and Rastoff for some input about RMR's. Very helpful.
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:00 PM
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So, did you go with Bowie or? I'm shopping around for a place to mill a slide for an RMR install.
Jpoint for my Shield

Galloway Precision
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:45 PM
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Jpoint for my Shield

Galloway Precision
and there's the answer. Thanks
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:29 AM
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You might want to look into the shield rms sight.It is being used by the Brits and there Commonwealth brothers in arms.It is supposed to fit the same footprint as a jpoint.It also has the advantage of replacing battery without removing from weapon.I think it might need suppressor sights to cowitness but I am not sure about that.One of those companies you were looking at to do the milling sells them and is very knowledgeable about them.
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:59 AM
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You might want to look into the shield rms sight.It is being used by the Brits and there Commonwealth brothers in arms.It is supposed to fit the same footprint as a jpoint.It also has the advantage of replacing battery without removing from weapon.I think it might need suppressor sights to cowitness but I am not sure about that.One of those companies you were looking at to do the milling sells them and is very knowledgeable about them.
I'm pretty sure the Shield still has to be removed...I think the battery is on the bottom. The shield is a better sight with upgraded electronics, from my research. I had a store credit with Amazon, that I wanted to use, so I had to go with the Jpoint, the Shield isn't available anywhere on Amazon. I am pleased with the Jpoint so far though. I got the dot circle, which is a fantastic reticle for self defense.

Yes I went through Galloway, and I am very happy with their service and the quality of their work. Their turnaround time was 1 week including the shipping both ways (I sent it next day, they sent it back standard 2 day) The Jpoint fits like a glove, and it sits deep enough that I get a true cowitness with the standard sights.

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Old 02-10-2017, 11:14 AM
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"..... I got the dot circle, which is a fantastic reticle for self defense."


Trust me, Steved, in an actual self defense situation, you're not going to see or acquire the sight, much less place that little circle on anything.
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Old 02-10-2017, 09:21 PM
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Thanks for the update Steved13. The work on your pistol looks good to me.

Anyone know if the Shield RMS is sold by anyone in the U.S?
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Old 02-11-2017, 12:28 AM
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Thanks for the update Steved13. The work on your pistol looks good to me.

Anyone know if the Shield RMS is sold by anyone in the U.S?
I bought a Shield RMS (Reflex Mini Sight) from Suarez International last month and had them mill my S&W Shield slide and mount it. The work looks very good, but I believe they have stopped working on S&W guns.

SI gets the Shield RDS sights from England in small batches, apparently. They often appear on backorder, but I believe they get shipments about 1x month. I don't know who else is importing them now. Brownells pops up on a Google search but then does not list them.

The Shield Sight is an upgraded J-Point with the same footprint. The Shield sight's narrower footprint also attracted me as I did not want to have an RDS hanging off both sides of my slide. Compared to the J-Point, it is more robust and has better electronics, at a higher price. I got the 4 MOA version. There is also an 8 MOA. I prefer the smaller dot for better accuracy.

It does have a side-mount battery compartment that does not require the sight to be removed from the slide for battery replacement. It appears the dot has a brightness auto adjust feature that actually works well without getting either too bright nor too dim.

My standard height Ameri Glo night sights barely co-witness through the bottom of the screen. I cannot find any taller "suppressor" sights for the Shield pistol, but if there are some, they would probably be too high since the bases on other RDS are taller than the Shield (or J-Point) sight.

I will be ordering the Heine Straight Eight Night Sights to replace my current sights, as the Ameri Glo orange front sight with the big circle is too wide for me. Heine has a narrow tritium vial (no extra ring) front sight with a wide rear notch.

I have my slide, but SI is doing a grip enhancement for my frame, so I have not yet shot it. I am also waiting on a threaded barrel because . . . I want it. Apex parts installed over a year ago. I'll post pictures in another thread when the project is complete and I can display a holey target. Amen.

ETA: Sorry for the hijack, Steved13. I think your project has turned out great and I hope it meets your needs. Best of luck--and skill.

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Old 02-11-2017, 07:32 AM
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It does have a side-mount battery compartment that does not require the sight to be removed from the slide for battery replacement. It appears the dot has a brightness auto adjust feature that actually works well without getting either too bright nor too dim.

My standard height Ameri Glo night sights barely co-witness through the bottom of the screen. I cannot find any taller "suppressor" sights for the Shield pistol, but if there are some, they would probably be too high since the bases on other RDS are taller than the Shield (or J-Point) sight.

I have my slide, but SI is doing a grip enhancement for my frame, so I have not yet shot it. I am also waiting on a threaded barrel because . . . I want it. Apex parts installed over a year ago. I'll post pictures in another thread when the project is complete and I can display a holey target. Amen.

ETA: Sorry for the hijack, Steved13. I think your project has turned out great and I hope it meets your needs. Best of luck--and skill.
Thanks for the correction, I remember the side battery now...I don't like posting bad info, so I appreciate the correction.

If you haven't already, check out Dawson Precision they have a very wide selection of sights and in different heights. Not all of their sights are available in every height though, but they may have a workable compromise. I think it is more about how deep they can mill the slide on the M&P Shield, even more then the low profile of the Jpoint/Shield.

I'm looking forward to seeing your project...if you get a chance post a pic of what you have done...I'd like to see it.

No hijack, project is done, so the OP is moot
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Old 02-11-2017, 12:12 PM
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Dawson has only wide front sights with circles around the tritium vial. Good suggestion for many options with various heights.
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Old 02-12-2017, 01:29 PM
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Thanks CB3. Would love to see your project gun when you are ready to share it.
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Old 02-13-2017, 04:07 PM
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Anyone know if the Shield RMS is sold by anyone in the U.S?
When I posted this question, that CB3 answered for me, thank you, I also posted the question on the Shield website.

Today I received an email from Shield with this:

"Thank you very much for your enquiry.
You can order direct from us in the UK from our web site
SHIELDPSD – Shoot Early
We can ship with no problems to the US
Best regards
Ken Savill
Shield Sights Limited"

So, there you have it. One can order these directly from the company in the UK.
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okiegtrider View Post
Today I received an email from Shield with this:

"Thank you very much for your enquiry.
You can order direct from us in the UK from our web site
SHIELDPSD Shoot Early
We can ship with no problems to the US
Best regards
Ken Savill
Shield Sights Limited"

So, there you have it. One can order these directly from the company in the UK.
I wouldn't order their sight for this one reason:
Quote:
...you may know the Shield Mini Sight as the Firepoint, Tasco Optima, Trijicon RedDot or JPoint.
I took this straight off their website. I don't know about the other brands, but Trijicon has always made their own optics and made them in the US. I don't claim to know everything there is to know about Trijicon, but this claim is suspect at the very least.
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
. . . Trijicon has always made their own optics and made them in the US. I don't claim to know everything there is to know about Trijicon, but this claim is suspect at the very least.
The Truth about Guns:
New From SHIELD: SIS and RMS Sights, Battery Mount, and JPoint Slim Mount - The Truth About Guns

The first Trijicon red dots were made by Shield, according to this article (and the Shield website).

The Trijicon website history shows their first mini red dot sight appearing in 2007. It looks exactly like the Shield SMS, including that it was made of polymer, not the current aluminum.
History - Trijicon, Inc.
Community - What's New - Trijicon, Inc.

I doubt a major manufacturer of RDS would make a claim like this that is completely false, at least not without getting sued.

Shield has made and continues to make many different models, both under their own branding and others. This does not indicate their products are inferior, except where they have made budget items because of customer demand.

I will report here in another thread on the performance of the Shield MRDS I have on my S&W Shield when I get my frame back and can test it. The reviews I have read on this, their latest model, have been positive. However, nothing compares to the quality or price of the current Trijicon RDS's, but their footprint is too large to put on compact guns.

Last edited by CB3; 02-15-2017 at 02:52 AM.
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Old 02-15-2017, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
I wouldn't order their sight for this one reason: I took this straight off their website. I don't know about the other brands, but Trijicon has always made their own optics and made them in the US. I don't claim to know everything there is to know about Trijicon, but this claim is suspect at the very least.
If you click this link, and then click the FAQ that reads "My reddot is not illuminated, what should I do?" Compare the pic of the Trijicon Reddot to a Jpoint (Made by shield) and you will see they look identical.

From piecing together what CB3 posted, and this pic I am posting...I think your confusion may lay, in that you're thinking the Shield site, is speaking of "Trijicon Red Dots" and they are speaking of a particular (older model) called the Trijicon Reddot.

(FAQ) Frequently Asked Questions About Trijicon RedDot™ - Trijicon, Inc.
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Old 02-15-2017, 10:40 AM
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They sure look the same to me.

Trijicon RedDot




JPoint


I'm enjoying this reflex sight discussion. I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a milling job and sight purchase. All this back and forth about these thing is helpful.
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okiegtrider View Post
I'm enjoying this reflex sight discussion. I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a milling job and sight purchase. All this back and forth about these thing is helpful.
IMHO they are a great addition. I was getting very discouraged with my eyesight, not being able to do much of anything out past 10 yards, and even then I should stay within 5 for decent results...and even within 5 the target wasn't very clear. Now I can challenge myself out further, and shooting has become more enjoyable.

I originally caught on to the idea of a red dot, watching some of Jerry Miculak's videos, and he was talking about his vision and how the red dot has helped him, and then I learned more about it from there, and found it was my solution also.

A couple of weeks ago They had a 3 gun competition from Vegas on TV, and Jerry had a mishap and wound up in the elimination round with 2 other guys (Usually its one on one, but I think the other 2 guys tied so it was a three way). In the elimination round they have to all shoot the same guns, that are provided, and have iron sights. Beforehand Jerry spoke to the camera about his apprehension of using guns other than his own. He out shot the other 2 (much younger) guys by quite a bit. Afterwards, he commented on the opening rifle shots, it was interesting seeing double out there and aiming in the middle of the two. You gotta love Jerry.
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Old 02-19-2017, 07:27 PM
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A friend was good enough to loan me his RMR equipped G23 for few days.


Have spent a fair amount of time in the last week practicing presentation from the holster and dry firing.

Using one of these sights is certainly different, but I think I can learn this.

Had a couple trips to the range with it now and have increased my comfort with this sight considerably.

I have decided to take the plunge and buy an RM 06 and have my slide milled to accommodate it.

These are my last two targets today. 7yds, rapid fire. This is working for me.



Steved13 gave me the benefit of his trials with reflex sights both here on the board and over the phone.

Rastoff gave me some input about reflex sights in a pm conversation. Thank you both, helped me make my decision.
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:18 AM
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Default C.O.R.E. Shield SMS equipped from S&W

Check this out: Performance Center(R) Ported M&P(R)9L Red Dot Sight | Smith & Wesson
Don't know how long this has been out there as a factory offering, but interesting nonetheless.

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Old 03-18-2017, 09:12 AM
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Didn't see it on the Lone Wolf website, but this article says they are getting into the game with milling the Shield for a reflex sight.

Lone Wolf Distributors: Customize Your S&W Shield! - SHOT Show 2017 - GunsAmerica Digest

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Old 03-18-2017, 09:51 AM
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I really like my JPoint on my Pro Series CORE, truly a tack driver.
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