Good afternoon everyone, I bought a brand new shield .45ACP which I have already done my 500 rounds to break her in (I read it was not necessary but I did it as I did with my kimber and to build some reliability and trust in the gun). The shop suggested me that for self defense I should try the Civil Defense Liberty .45 which is a lighter ammo than the typical 230gr. This one is 78gr and >1900 FPS. He indicated that is great since is it lighter, reduce recoil on the gun (which I dont mind much since I got used to the 230gr in the range with my other 45) but is more reliable. Another thing I realized on that ammo is that it is rated +P and I want to know if anyone here has a thought on it.... I dont recall reading that the shield is +P ready but he said it is... so I want to ask you all your thoughts...

Just for the record, in my other .45 (Kimber) I carry Remington Golden Saber 230gr Hollow point.

My personal experience with "trick" ammunition is that it is great for producing a profit by the seller, and usually only works reasonably well under the specific conditions touted by the maker.
I think your Golden Saber or similar quality defense ammunition will serve you well in both your pistols.

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Science plus Art

I too shy away from these new wonder lightweights. I know alot of guys run 230gr JHP, but I have great confidence in my home rolled Rmington Golden Sabre 185 gr JHP. I am too lazy to run down to my shop to recall the specs, but they work great in all of my 45 ACP guns.

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NRA Life Member, Patron

Buy what's been proven. Gold Dot, HST, .... etc

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

I use Hornday Critical Duty 220 grain +P in my Shield 45.
I selected this round based on this article:
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...llistic-tests/

The test weapon was a Kahr 45 with a so slightly longer barrel, but I thought it was close enough in size to the Shield .45 to be comparable.
In my opinion, the purpose of using a .45 is because of not only the bullet diameter but the bullet weight.
To use such a light weight bullet in a .45, one might just use a 9mm........

A strong second for OKFC05's advice. I use the following list of self-defense ammo that essentially meets FBI standards for penetration and expansion:

Service Caliber Handgun Duty and Self-Defense Ammo

If it's not on this list, I don't consider it. After a fair amount of testing, I've found that Speer Gold Dot works best in my in my Shield 45. However, don't just take my word for it, do some of your own testing, as results will vary by each gun/shooter combination.

Enjoy your new Shield!

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What, me worry?

230 gr hardball has worked well for over 100 years.

Why mess with a track record like that ?

I've been shooting a 45 acp for awhile and well I don't go by articles or what's new. I shoot the ammo I'm going to use in the gun and train with this same ammo. I have seen all sorts of gimmicky ammo come out in the last couple of year's and if I think I need to change what I'm currently using then I'll give it a try. But seeing how I'm happy with the ammo I have don't see a change coming. Oh and I shoot hydra shok in all my 45's again it runs so why fiddle with it...

I have done extensive ballistic gel testing with the .45 Shield.
Here goes and it's a long read....the end is the most important findings so feel free to skip to the end

With Shield .45
I did a clearballistics FBI BARE gel test today. 6"x6"x16" with wood backstop
It was 17 degrees F, 61% humidity, Pressure 30.3%
I used my .45 Shield
Federal HST 230gr= penetrated 11 1/2" expanded .82
Federal HST 230 gr +P= penetrated 11 3/4" expanded .80
Critical duty 220 +P = passed through block. recovered in wood .51"
Underwood Extreme defense 120gr=passed through block recovered in wood
Winchester Ranger 230gr (RA45T)=penetrated 11 1/2" expanded .75-.85"
Widest petal was .85
Winchester Ranger 230gr+P (RA45TP)=penetrated 14 3/4" expanded .75-.85
I then shot 4 more rounds of Ranger 230gr+P and they went from 14 1/2" to 14 7/8"
So with my little test I will be carrying the Ranger 230+P.
Just thought you might be interested in the results.
The Federal HST expand beautifully but don't even penetrate to 12" with the shorter Shield barrel.
Here is update.
I did Speer Gold dot 230gr Standard pressure=13"penetration with .625 expansion
Corbon DPX 185gr+P=14 1/2" penetration with .75 expansion
I still like the Ranger 230+P so far with 14 1/2-14 3/4" penetration and .85 expansion at widest point.
One Corbon turned completely around 180degrees
Both expanded nicely

Part 2

Using a Shield .45
Here is results from 4 layers of denim test using a 6x6x20" clear ballisticgel block. Temp 28degrees, humidity 47% and pressure 30.3inHg. Previous test done with bare gel is further below

With both HST and Ranger 230+p and 230 standard pressure was very inconsistent. Around half the rounds would clog with denim and pass through 20" with no expansion. When they did expand penetration was only 11 1/2" This was the exact same results as Federal HST 230+P and standard pressure. 3 out of 4 rounds would fail to expand and passed through
Hornady XTP 200 gr +P also failed to expand 3 out of 4 times and then one time it went to 19" and .51 expansion.
Magtech 230gr JHP failed to fire! The striker would not even dent the primer!
Underwood 120gr Xtreme defense did very well and penetrated to 17" 4 out of 4 times. Of course no expansion with the solid copper bullet
Corbon 165+P DPX expanded beautifully and penetrated 9-10" each time.
There were two clear winner's today. One was Corbon 185+P DPX and the other Underwood 120gr Xtreme Defender.
The Corbon 185+P DPX 4 out of 4 expanded beautifully and penetrated to 14 1/2-15" each time. It also performed exactly the same in bare gel.
The Underwood Xtreme Defender penetrated to 17" every time with 4 layers of denim.

Part 3

.45 Shield
January 20,2017
Weather 35*, Pressure 30inHg, Humidity 83%
FBI clearballistics 16x6x6 block with T bone 6x6x20" resulting in 22" in length
Block stored in 68* and utilized in 2 minutes of being outside
Block had one layer of each of medium weight nylon filled with polyester winter coat, followed by 200gr polartec fleece and 5.3oz Tshirt
This is typical winter attire here in NY. I used no denim as no one seems to be wearing denim around their chest
Results
Underwood 230+P XTP 20.5" penetration, .593" expansion
Underwood 185+P XTP 22" penetration, .55" expansion
Underwood 230+P bonded JHP 14" penetration, .677 expansion
Underwood 185+P bonded JHP 13.5" penetration, .690 expansion
Underwood Xtreme defense 120gr 17" penetration not designed to expand.
This Xtreme defense bullet went to 17" penetration in bare, 4 layers of denim and this test. Very consistent
Winchester Ranger 230+P over 22" and no expansion
Federal HST 230+P was the BIG surprise for me yet again. In bare gel it only went to 11 3/4" penetration and .880 expansion
In 4 layers of denim it passed through 20" of gel 3 out of 4 times. The 4th time in 4 layers it penetrated to 11 1/2" and .820 expansion.
Today the HST 230+p gr was STELLAR. Penetrated to 16" 3 out of 3 times and expanded to .859 on the widest one and .771 on the lowest expanded bullet.
So I did a 2 layer Hanes white cotton t-shirt test and the Federal 230gr HST+P penetrated to 13" and expanded to .875 on one round and penetrated to 13" and .818" on the other round
The standard pressure HST 230 did not do well at all in regards to penetration.
Through winter layers it penetrated 11-12" but expansion was incredible .912!!!
Through the two layer cotton t-shirt was 10 1/2'-11" penetration with .922 expansion!!!
Corbon DPX 185+P is by far the most consistent JHP so far out of the Shield. Penetrated to 14 1/2 to 15 1/2" regardless of bare, 4 layers of denim and this winter wear test. Expansion was between .750 and .780.
Looks like I will use Federal HST 230+P in the fall and winter time and undecided for the spring and summer. Either the Underwood Xtreme defense or the Corbon DPX 185+P

Part 4

So I did some more testing with my .45 shield. I used a clearballistic gel 6x6x20. I used 4 layers of denim that I purchased through clear ballistics.
Corbon DPX 185+p is the most consistent with penetration to 13-14 1/2". Expansion .819.
Golden saber 185+p penetrated to 16-17" expansion .740.
One failed to expand out of 7 rounds.
The surprise this time was 230 HST +P.
5 out of 6 failed to expand and penetrated past 20" into the wood. One only 2/3 of round expanded.
So now I will carry golden saber in the winter and Corbon in the summer.

FINAL!

Using a 5.3oz Cotton T shirt

The Golden saber 185+P penetrated to 14", 5 out of 5 times. All expanded .665" average
The Corbon DPX 185+P penetrated to 15", 5 out of times. All expanded to .817" average
Both are excellent rounds. The golden sabers are certainly loaded hotter than the Corbon
I will use Golden Sabers in Fall and Winter here in NY. Spring and summer Corbon's it is!
You would not go wrong with either one Both are consistent

I use 230 grain .45 ACP rounds in all my guns of that caliber. They were all designed around that round and the springs, etc work well with that round. I have not personally had issues with it. That is very important to me. I don't borrow trouble. And the cartridges I choose may or may not be the ones with the best "test" records. However, I have no doubt that they will do the job I need done if I do my part by delivering them to the place they need to go. That's all I need!

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So long ... Ken

This right here my friend. Common sense advice.

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America First

FWIW I'm going with Federal HST 230gr standard pressure.

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John 3:16, Carry Everyday!

So it has been suggested that, based on the barrel length, the 180 grain load is the superior round for my new 45 Shield. It supposedly allows the round to achieve a better velocity given the shorter barrel. Don't know much about this but I do know my 45 Shield with 230 rounds, out of the box, allowed me a 3 inch grouping at 7 yards and a 5 inch grouping at 15 yards which seems pretty good for a novice shooter.

when I had 45s I loaded them with a 200gr +p gold dots, 78gr is just way to light for a 45, it's like a flying dime.

For 45, 9, 40, etc heavier is what you want.

For the smaller .45 ACPs on the market today I have gone to either the WW 185 gr JHP or the Speer 200 gr +P FMJ with the flat metplat. I tfend to favor the Speer round since I started using it about 10 years ago. It works well in any size weapon, and provides full penetration of the standard gel block, and will probably break any intervening structures (bones, etc.)
I tend to be conservative with ammo and a 200 gr flat point moving out at +P speeds does provide quite a thump if properly placed. Of course ANY bullet must be properly placed to be effective. One of the advantages of this particular round is that it shrugs off variables like layers of denim, old t shirts and whatever. All it needs to do its job is proper placement.

A .45 bullet that requires expansion to get the job done just seems a waste of weight. I reserve the tricky bullets for lesser calibers where expansion is needed to make up for lack of weight and effective bullet shape. I would also happily use a 230 gr FMJ with a nice big flat metplat, I believe the 200 Speer punching through clothing, tissue, bone and whatever else is available, makes up for a lot of expanding spinning whirling and other projectile wizardry.

For an RFN takedown a Speer 200 gr flat point to the pelvic cradle will work every time, as will any CNS hit with the same slug. I am sure that the exoctica big caliber ammo is effective when its parameters are met, however I know that a solid hit from a heavy bullet moving out at about 850 FPS will get just about anyones' attention, if not, rinse and repeat.

My biggest reason for using .45 is it's already big, unlike 9mm that needs to expand. For me I just shoot 230 gr. fmj. and dont' worry if my round is going too fast or not fast enough.

My experience with 9 & 45 is that HEAVIER bullets feel like less recoil, or at least slower recoil. But I hear a lot of these uber light SD/HD rounds claiming less felt recoil with hotter loads. Not sure how that works.

230 gr. Federal HST runs great through my Shield and is accurate. IMO, there is no reason to use +p in a short-barrel 45, from all that I've read, it just doesn't offer that much more velocity.

This has been a great great thread, with some good information to tuck away for reference. Thanks to all for sharing information and insights. The cumulative knowledge and experience which appears here is impressive. Hats offs to all!

I might add that some decent additional experimental data can be found at luckygunner.com. The fellow clearly sets out how he tests loads, and he seems to know how to properly set up ballistic gelatin with clothing barriers. All the major calibers and rounds are there, at least as much as anyone can reasonably expect on a private-funded site. Not the final word, but helpful. (As a biology professor, my professional instincts cause me to always draw on multiple sources for my data, critiquing each one, and drawing my own conclusions.)

For .45 ACP, tested and well-proven loads have gone down as far as 185 grains, and in one case (not so proven nor as accepted) 165 grains. IMHO, in starting out, one should generally stick reasonably close to the bullet weight that the cartridge was designed for, i.e., 230 grains for the .45 ACP. Departing from that figure by 20% or so seems to be generally safe as a rule. Beyond that, I think evidence is needed that the round will function in the arm and also give the desired terminal performance.

I strongly agree with the poster who stated that a major reason for going with the .45 (ACP, or for that matter, Colt) is bullet weight as well as diameter. A shot or two into the pelvic region will literally put a bad guy down, and is a good option if one suspects an attacker is wearing a ballistic vest; in such a situation, bullet mass will be quite helpful in breaking up the pelvis.

But I cannot even begin to imagine trusting a bullet under 150 grains, no less under 100 grains (!) in the .45 if needed in a self-defense situation. Far, far better to just use the 9mm if you want to reduce recoil to the extent you indicate. Instead, you have created a real-life oxymoron, along the lines of jumbo (.45) shrimp (the miniscule bullet mass).

Remington, Federal, Speer, and Winchester all make great loadings for the 45. Some even offer reduced recoil. Why not grab one of them, as you did for your Kimber? Try a couple. I'll bet one will be softer shooting than the others, but still a performer.

By the way, while I love the fact that the .45 is already big without needing to expand, recent years have seen substantial improvements in bullet constuction, and reliable expansion in the face of clothing and other barriers is now more the rule than the exception. Sure, .45 is great; but .60 or .70+ is better, and is part of the design to prevent the dangerous overpenetration common with hardball. The best bullets of today are simply not the bullets of even 2008 or 2011.

My youngest son, who is a street-wise, advanced EMT in a tough city, and has handled many gunshot wound cases, has discussed the issue of caliber, bullet expansion, wounding effects, etc. at length with other EMTs, paramedics, and ER physicians. Curiously, most of them carry and they heavily prefer the 9 mm with hp ammo based on what they have seen, both in patients who were DOA, who died in hospital, or who survived. (My son carries a Shield 9 mm, while I prefer the .45.)

All agreed the serious damage -and stopping power- lies in the camp of expanding bullets. FMJ always seems to require direct hits to the central nervous system to quickly take the fight out of the attacker. Bullet placement was much less critical with hp before incapacitation was achieved. FMJ also was likely leave a few bullets in the body, with the rest punching through -to endanger others. (Hp bullets tended to be found in the body or in the clothing on the exit side.)

Whether +p makes sense is not a point for argument, by the way, but for testing, although I definitely agree +p is over-hyped. All too-often, the gain in performance is marginal -at best- when checked over a chronograph. The better answer is usually a longer barrel and regular pressure ammo.

Or a different cartridge.

First it was +p. Then +p+. As a gunsmith finally remarked to a cop who kept asking if a small frame .38 Special could handle +p+ loads, "Maybe you're really looking for a .357 Magnum?"


Shoot well, stay safe.

Brian

Thank you for sharing that link. Good, solid advice. Well worth the read.

The whole idea of getting a 45 is having a bigger bullet. Why defeat that purpose.

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Endeavor To Persevere

I think I would prefer just about anything that weighs 230-grains and functions reliably to 78-grain wonderloads - certainly nothing lighter than 185. My Shield45 is so accurate with Winchester Ranger 230-grain HPs I've never bothered to test anything else.

At luckygunner.com there is actually FBI clothed gelatin data for the OP's Liberty round. The "dime" (as someone appropriately nicknamed it here) penetrated 10.9" on average, and did not expand -pretty much a failure on both counts. It was also the ONLY bullet tested which failed to retain at least 85% of it's original weight. So finally someone has invented a bullet that turns a .45 ACP into one mighty fine mouse gun!

Please, in all seriousness, don't stake anyone's safety on it! I cannot imagine it retaining any effectiveness whatsoever if it had to work its way through, say, a forearm bone or wrist before reaching the torso.