Hello to all, been a while.....

I just piked up my new S&W Shield in 45ACP on Saturday. I got one after handling one at the outdoor show in Harrisburg recently. I have shot S&W pistols since I started shooting, as a matter of fact, its all i own in pistols so you can see I am a fanboy as my father was before me. After giving in and getting a few M&Ps ( i was a 3rd gen guy all the way) I was happy with my purchases. However ...........

I took the new one apart today and found it to be bone dry, dirty, and noticed some obvious machine markings on the barrel hood on the top. Not the quality I am used to from my others. While I am not unhappy with my purchase overall (not mentioning the front night sight doesn't glow but thats the shops issue since they installed the sights and didn't check them) but for the first time I am questioning my loyalty to S&W. Those Sigs sure seem nice........... Is the quality control dropping that fast at S&W to maintain getting the pistols made quickly?

I am sure some will respond "you get what ya pay for" or "it is what it is". Lets skip that part.

TD

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More stuff!!!

Yep-and that ain't all. JMO

Bone dry from the factory doesn't concern me; the finish is quite rust resistant and the gun is to be cleaned and lubed before firing.

Can you post a pic of the machining marks? It's hard to make a QC call without more info.

I had a new model 60 that had to go back because of a loose frame-to-yoke locking, but S&W fixed that right up. Several years later I bought an early 70's era Model 36 and it had the same issue. Probably left the factory that way.

Guess what I'm saying is I've seen the odd problem in old and new Smiths. I would guess that many of the old S&W's had issues, but because of the lack of the Internet at the time it was not widely known.

Yeah I picked up a PC shield in 9mm on 2/17 and went to the range 2/19. After which the finish on barrel was coming off and machine marks are very apparent. It on its way back to S&W. This was my first new S&W so far. I purchased a used 40c that is now pushing 8 years old looks new still. We'll see what S&W says and does but right now no plans on buying another new one any time soon. If it comes back with no issues and after a good range outing still has no issues my opinion may change.

Only have 5 firearms and the 3 others are Ruger's in which I purchased 2 new. No issues at all with either of them.

In the last few months I have purchased two new S&W handguns. Both have bad enough problems to warrant being sent in for repairs.
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.

In the last six months I have bought two 9 shields and a 45 shield, all have been utterly flawless, great finish, total reliability, very accurate and I couldn't be happier

I think there are a few falling through the cracks into the customers hands and it isn't just S&W. I think it might have to do with the companies more interested in meeting production quotas than quality is job one. That's what they have service departments for.

I purchased 5 S&W in the past 3 weeks. They have all been perfect. Shield 9mm, Shield .45, M&P .45, M&P .45C and an M&P 9mm 2.0. Flawless!!

Also, Don't fool yourself about SIGs, they have been plagued with issues.

Just picked up a Shield 9 today and while cleaning and lubing it gave it a close inspection. Looks really nice so far. It isn't as polished as my Springfields, but it also cost quite a bit less ($315 at GAG). Curious to see how the mags do as I'm spoiled again by the Springfield mags.
Put on Talons, Pearce grip extension on 7 rounder, grip frame insert and Wolff springs. Range time this weekend. Hope she's a keeper.

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USMC RETIRED

I own/have owned some old S&W revolvers from the classic years that had issues, yet the very minimal wear would suggest that they had little more than a box of ammo through them, if that. Some of them maybe a few boxes of ammo, but no more. Which all implies that they came from the factory with those issues. Nothing new to S&W, really, even though they're a quality company.

My personal feeling about polymer guns is that a large part of the gun is molded, not crafted by artisans, so the gun maker is less likely to put effort into internal visual workmanship that they would on a 586 or model 29. But this doesn't explain the difference you experienced between your gun and earlier examples of essentially the same model. I don't know about that.

I just recently also bought a Shield .45, but haven't shot it yet. If it functions well, I'm unlikely to sweat machining marks inside the gun, as it cost me only $385, new. Not just guns, but everything we buy is becoming less hand made every year. Everyone criticizes the post-64 Winchesters, but Winchester couldn't keep losing money on every gun they made due to high labor costs or unwillingness to go to more streamlined production.

You're right to be disappointed with less fit and finish. I just think it's an ongoing trend.

Never judge a gun by some machine marks. It's useless. Since you mentioned Sigs...... Back around 2004 - 2010 Sig made excellent looking guns that were 50/50 on actual function. No machining marks but your frame may crack under a 1000 rounds. Mag releases breaking off. Issues were so common that many departments dropped Sig altogether, including the secret service.

Sigs problem was the boss wanted to make profit by outsourcing.

After he left quality went back up but for almost a decade you had a 50% chance of getting a lemon. But hey.....at least there were no machine marks



Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

First, machine marks are not a quality control issue. If they've stopped smoothing places in the machining process, that would be an intentional cost-cutting decision.

Second, no modern manufacturer uses quality control- it's far too expensive and wasteful. Manufacturers are using quality assurance methods today, which reinforces the first point.

I've bought 4 S&W MP's over the last 4 years, three 9's and one 22. All have either close to 1000 rounds or well over that amount and all with no issues. Knock on wood.

I buy these for a mix of defense, practice, and range time/fun. I expect them to function well, with my limited experience I wouldn't even know where to look for machine marks, etc. So unless the gun had a blemish that stood out even as it sat in the box, then i'm good with it.

Now if I'm buying something of a much higher $$ value or perhaps limited availability, my expectations would be higher. But on my MP's, if they work then i'm content.

just my .02

Me thinks what you're seeing is a ramp up of production in anticipation of Calamity Clinton being elected. Since that didn't happen, all these guns that were being manufactured have now become available in the marketplace. Of course, a ramp up in production without buying new tools, hiring more people, then training those people will almost always cause a degradation in the manufacturing process. I strongly suspect S&W had complete knowledge of the situation and expected the rejects to be fixed under warranty after Clintons inauguration.

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NRA Benefactor

Unfortunately, it now seems a short function test means a gun is GtG. Fit& finish are secondary concerns. Mass production at high speeds for high volume with low cost = profit, if people keep buying the guns.

If some low percentage of guns come back to customer service for functional problems, that is figured in to the overall cost/profit structure of corporate decision makers.

S&W (and almost every other large corporation) is first about making money. Quality and customer satisfaction are only part of the hierarchy of decisions the suits make.

When 99/100 $385 guns are purchased and the customer is never heard from because the gun works, companies are rewarded financially.

I want more from my guns, but I recognize I have to pay more. My $385 investment is to buy a basic platform, legally, that I can then improve to my liking. Frankly, with today's mass produced guns, I'm surprised if I get one that meets my expectations for a mass produced gun. I am competent in fixing guns, so I don't worry too much about minor problems, but major functional issues go back to the factory.

Sigs? Same problems, but as mentioned earlier, even worse for a ime. I bought three different Sig rifles in a year. Every one went back, one of them twice. None of them functioned properly OoTB. That's a 133% failure rate!

About the only thing you can do today to get a good rendition of a gun is to buy locally and examine the offerings before you buy. Have the dealer bring out four (or more) of the same models. Check the fit & finish. Check the trigger. Work the mag release and release the slide lock with your thumb. Check the sights for alignment. Feel how the slide operates. Choose the best of the lot, or don't if for the price they don't meet your expectations. Keep looking.

Citing Quality Control issues is like tires on your car. Never a comment about the 3 that are fine........but we complain like crazy about the one that went flat....me included.

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CERAKOTE Svcs.
Class 01 FFL

And rightfully so. They don't offer discounts on the bad ones.

How's it shoot? When you buy the cheapest line of pistol from a manufacturer you shouldn't be too surprised to find some measures of cost cutting.

People complain if the gun is too clean -(it wasn't test fired...) and then people complain if the gun isn't spotless

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What he says.

My family owns five M&P9 semi-autos, both full size and compact. Each one has wear on the barrel hood over the chamber. The guns are designed so that the flat surface on the barrel hood cams the barrel down during the backward motion of the slide. There is also some minor wear at the muzzle. Again, it's part of the design.

You can see machining marks on each one, including the one purchased earliest in the model run. Surprisingly, even the newest one has the same machining marks. Smith could certainly polish out the machining at a cost, but the wear on the barrel would be the same.

Sometimes they do. Sometimes the people who sell them don't tell that's what you're buying. Bud's gun shop I'm looking at you.

Smith and Wesson has history of quality control problems going back to the Civil War. Most are great some aren't and some years were worse than others. If you run into a real problem send it back.

Since at least 1988 when the rails fell off my P226 with about 100 rds thru the gun. My first and last Sig.

Arik mentioned more issues in the early 2000's.

At least this forum allows one to complain about issues unlike the other forum.

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Sure you did

So, except for the non working night sight, what exactly was wrong with this thing?

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Read up on the new Redhawks where the front sight is falling off them, yeah Ruger quality.

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Sure you did

I will be firing my sheild 45 for the first time this weekend. I got two extra 7rd mags a Lulu quik loader and 300rds 230g ball ammo for starters.
The mrs liked the sheild 40 so I got that for her, so we have some breaking in to do. I cleaned both last week and both were also bone dry except for 1 drop on the barrel. The function of the gun and trigger are fine on my dry run and overall condition on both were perfect as they should be for a new S&W gun regardless of the price.

"About the only thing you can do today to get a good rendition of a gun is to buy locally and examine the offerings before you buy. Have the dealer bring out four (or more) of the same models. Check the fit & finish. Check the trigger. Work the mag release and release the slide lock with your thumb. Check the sights for alignment. Feel how the slide operates. Choose the best of the lot, or don't if for the price they don't meet your expectations. Keep looking"

There isn't a dealer out there that will let you do that! They are out to make money too and won;t spent the time and effort to try and sell a $385.00 Gun!

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It's The Carbonaro Effect!

I've been manufacturing parts and assemblies out of metals for 47 years, starting as a 15 year old machinist apprentice. Manufacturers are going to have a bad product get out the door from time to time. How they handle the customer complaint is more important in my opinion. I bought a brand new model 63 in 1980. $260 hard earned dollars for a 22? Got it home and was cleaning it up and noticed that there was about 1/16" of play at the front of the crane. I took it back to the store, the barrel lug appeared to be about a 1/8" too far forward. The store guy took it in the back for a while. He came back out and the problem was fixed. I asked him what he did, he grinned and said, " I changed the serial number on you paperwork and gave you a different revolver." Long story to my point that manufacturers make mistakes. If they fix them you have no complaint. If they dont, they no longer have a customer. That's a penalty most manufacturers don't want to pay.

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

There are 7 dealers within 5 miles of my home....ALL will in fact take the time and let you pick, Find a new FFL.

My statement to try multiple examples of the same gun to find the best one was not an untried proposal. I have done this numerous times.

Dealers in my area do this without a problem. They are not only looking at the sale of the one gun you will buy; they are looking at you as a repeat customer for more guns, accessories, ammo, etc. If they don't do it as part of a competent, customer-oriented sales process, they know the guy across town who will do it is going to get your business.

It's called customer service, and they absolutely will do it if you ask. Most people don't, but if you know what you are looking for when you come in, you are taking up no more of their time than the Lookie Louie who comes in and tries out half a dozen different guns but doesn't buy anything because he doesn't know what he wants.