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  #51  
Old 03-07-2017, 11:01 AM
gqllc007 gqllc007 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protected One View Post
If you watched ALL his testing of rounds for short barreled 9mm you will see that he ultimately chose Winchester D as the "best performer".
I tested those as well. They penetrated to 19-20" routinely and expanded to about .488".
My testing showed the 124 HST far superior out of a Glock 43 and PC ported Shield.
124 HST penetrated to 18" and .622 average expansion.

Last edited by gqllc007; 03-07-2017 at 11:13 AM.
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  #52  
Old 03-07-2017, 01:37 PM
sschrick sschrick is offline
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someone else previously mentioned it. . .check out the Luckygunner ballistics results. Tons of test data, mostly shot out of short barreled guns.
Surprisingly, the Speer Gold Dots did not expand hardly at all out of the short barrel pistols tested.
I carry Federal HST in my Shield 9. Either 124gr or 147gr.
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  #53  
Old 03-07-2017, 02:24 PM
gqllc007 gqllc007 is offline
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Originally Posted by sschrick View Post
someone else previously mentioned it. . .check out the Luckygunner ballistics results. Tons of test data, mostly shot out of short barreled guns.
Surprisingly, the Speer Gold Dots did not expand hardly at all out of the short barrel pistols tested.
I carry Federal HST in my Shield 9. Either 124gr or 147gr.
4 out of the 5 god dots did not expand in my tests either. They work well out of a full size not short barrel

Last edited by gqllc007; 03-07-2017 at 02:25 PM.
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  #54  
Old 03-07-2017, 08:45 PM
Com 45acp Com 45acp is offline
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I'm going to be carrying the standard 124 hst in my pc shield after watching the hst testing. But for you guys carrying Hornady critical defense have you thought about stepping up to the critical duty. Think it's a better performer.
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  #55  
Old 03-07-2017, 09:07 PM
mnarcher mnarcher is offline
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Federal HST. 124gr. Standard pressure.

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  #56  
Old 03-07-2017, 09:20 PM
SmithNWesson SmithNWesson is offline
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Originally Posted by Com 45acp View Post
I'm going to be carrying the standard 124 hst in my pc shield after watching the hst testing. But for you guys carrying Hornady critical defense have you thought about stepping up to the critical duty. Think it's a better performer.
I thought about it but i like the expansion and velocity in the critical defense. I will probably go with the critical duty for winter carry. The 124gr Federal HST has some impressive numbers
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  #57  
Old 03-07-2017, 10:01 PM
gqllc007 gqllc007 is offline
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Originally Posted by SmithNWesson View Post
I thought about it but i like the expansion and velocity in the critical defense. I will probably go with the critical duty for winter carry. The 124gr Federal HST has some impressive numbers
What exactly is it that you like? Critical defense has some pretty dismal numbers out of a short barrel like the Shield or Glock 43.
Out of my Glock 43 Critical defense penetrated to 11 1/2" and expanded to .485". In comparison the Federal HST 124gr standard pressure penetrated to 18" and expanded to .622
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  #58  
Old 03-08-2017, 12:15 AM
yep380 yep380 is offline
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Never ordered from here, but they have a good price on Federal 9mm 124 Grain HST in a 50 round box: Federal HST LE 9mm Luger Ammo 124 Grain JHP

Please let us know how it goes if you order from them.
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  #59  
Old 03-08-2017, 01:32 AM
Raisin Raisin is offline
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I just fired 50 rounds of 124 gr HST today from my Shield 9 with disappointing results. When loading a magazine with the slide closed the first round would not feed. When loading a magazine with the slide open it worked fine. It looks like the nose of the round would tip down when hit by the slide. I tried extracting rounds from the magazine by hand and could not get the first one out without using a screw driver to hold the nose up. The nose of the round would hit the front of the magazine every time. Now I am worried. Is it the HST, the magazine, or the Shield?
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  #60  
Old 03-08-2017, 07:43 AM
gqllc007 gqllc007 is offline
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Originally Posted by Raisin View Post
I just fired 50 rounds of 124 gr HST today from my Shield 9 with disappointing results. When loading a magazine with the slide closed the first round would not feed. When loading a magazine with the slide open it worked fine. It looks like the nose of the round would tip down when hit by the slide. I tried extracting rounds from the magazine by hand and could not get the first one out without using a screw driver to hold the nose up. The nose of the round would hit the front of the magazine every time. Now I am worried. Is it the HST, the magazine, or the Shield?
First I would do is try a different magazine. The top rounds are hard to remove from a loaded magazine. I would take the mag apart and check for bent spring. Make sure mag is clean on the inside as well. Check your follower. Do not ride the slide forward when loading your first round...pull back your slide and sling shot it.

When you had the slide open then inserted a loaded magazine and sling shot the slide did that work and every round fire?
What about sling shot the first round then take out the mag and add one more round to the magazine and reinsert. This way you are carrying one in the chamber with a full mag...did that work? All rounds were fired without incident?
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  #61  
Old 03-08-2017, 09:09 AM
SmithNWesson SmithNWesson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gqllc007 View Post
What exactly is it that you like? Critical defense has some pretty dismal numbers out of a short barrel like the Shield or Glock 43.
Out of my Glock 43 Critical defense penetrated to 11 1/2" and expanded to .485". In comparison the Federal HST 124gr standard pressure penetrated to 18" and expanded to .622
I must admit, i may not fully know how to read the data. But 13" seems fine (12" minimum) and the expansion and velocity numbers are high. I also figured that 13" would be good for self defense and reduce over penetration. Someone please correct me if i am wrong. Like i said i will probably pick up the 135gr also
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  #62  
Old 03-08-2017, 09:24 AM
gqllc007 gqllc007 is offline
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Originally Posted by SmithNWesson View Post
I must admit, i may not fully know how to read the data. But 13" seems fine (12" minimum) and the expansion and velocity numbers are high. I also figured that 13" would be good for self defense and reduce over penetration. Someone please correct me if i am wrong. Like i said i will probably pick up the 135gr also
According to the "FBI" they feel that 12-18" is the "ideal" range. Critical defense came up short of that. It also doesn't expand very much at all. Critical duty 135+P works well for barrier penetration similar to gold dot 124+P. I am not LEO so that criteria isn't as important to me. Most of these are designed around a full size duty weapon. The most consistent round that penetrates and expands from short, medium and long barrels is the 124 HST standard pressure. At least in my tests and everyone else. The 147 gr HST is great out of a "long" barrel. I have had a couple usually 2 out of 5 that will fail to expand using a short barrel.
As you are aware shot placement is everything. Approximately
36.5% are obese in America and close to 67% are overweight. It would make sense that deeper penetration around 16-18" would be ideal. Anyways shot placement rules over all others and there have been many shootings that resulted in fatalities with .22 and .380.
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  #63  
Old 03-08-2017, 06:11 PM
Raisin Raisin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gqllc007 View Post
First I would do is try a different magazine. The top rounds are hard to remove from a loaded magazine. I would take the mag apart and check for bent spring. Make sure mag is clean on the inside as well. Check your follower. Do not ride the slide forward when loading your first round...pull back your slide and sling shot it.

When you had the slide open then inserted a loaded magazine and sling shot the slide did that work and every round fire?
What about sling shot the first round then take out the mag and add one more round to the magazine and reinsert. This way you are carrying one in the chamber with a full mag...did that work? All rounds were fired without incident?
It worked fine when I slingshot the slide after inserting the mag with an open slide, just not when loading the mag with the slide closed. I tried both 7 and 8 round factory magazines and the same thing happened with both. I think I have solved the problem by filing down the front of the magazine to give more clearance for the bullet to clear the mag.

Last edited by Raisin; 03-11-2017 at 09:41 PM.
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  #64  
Old 03-11-2017, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yep380 View Post
Never ordered from here, but they have a good price on Federal 9mm 124 Grain HST in a 50 round box: Federal HST LE 9mm Luger Ammo 124 Grain JHP

Please let us know how it goes if you order from them.
I was giving these guys a close look, but whenever I run across an operation that makes me go through the entire checkout routine, before giving me a shipping cost, I just empty my cart and go somewhere else.
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  #65  
Old 03-11-2017, 10:20 PM
yep380 yep380 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark IV View Post
I was giving these guys a close look, but whenever I run across an operation that makes me go through the entire checkout routine, before giving me a shipping cost, I just empty my cart and go somewhere else.
Didn't work that way when I went there: I just clicked "Get estimates" in the checkout page. Shipping is ~$16 for 4 boxes of 50 124gr HST. Still haven't ordered from them, but that's not why.
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  #66  
Old 03-11-2017, 10:25 PM
Umami13 Umami13 is offline
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Old guy and I've never have had any luck with hornady ammo other than rifle. I still use hydra shok ammo have for years and I say don't fix it if it's not broken.
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  #67  
Old 03-11-2017, 10:36 PM
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I've been sold on Federal HST for a few years now, especially 147gr standard pressure.

I tested that in my new Shield this week, though, and it printed a little high, while 124+P HST and the old 9BPLE hit right on (7-10 yards). So I am going to try standard pressure 124gr HST.

Keep in mind that the (vast) majority of folks would be much better served putting the time they spend researching or debating ammo into practicing (safe!) handgun manipulation and shooting fundamentals to get that whole shot placement thing on their side.

Pick a JHP from a major manufacturer that you can afford to test in your gun for reliability and accuracy/point of impact and go with it. Bonus points if it's HST lol

And I always check SGAmmo.com | Family Owned and Operated Ammo Sales, Stillwater OK first, been using them for many years, always stellar

Last edited by Warp; 03-11-2017 at 10:37 PM.
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  #68  
Old 03-12-2017, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by yep380 View Post
Never ordered from here, but they have a good price on Federal 9mm 124 Grain HST in a 50 round box: Federal HST LE 9mm Luger Ammo 124 Grain JHP

Please let us know how it goes if you order from them.
FYI, I clicked on the link in your post, and my security software put up a warning not to enter the site.
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  #69  
Old 03-12-2017, 05:36 AM
V0OBWxZS16 V0OBWxZS16 is offline
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Before asking "What ammo should I use?" you should ask "What should ammo do, what shouldn't it do, and how is it tested?" I recommend the following:
Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness from the Firearms Training Unit of the FBI
Basic Wound Ballistic Terminal Performance Facts by Dr. Roberts (DocGKR)
Ordnance gelatin test assessment for rifle and pistol calibers by Dr. Roberts (DocGKR)
What's Wrong With The Wound Ballistics Literature And Why by Dr. Fackler

For specific recommendations I start here:
Service Caliber Handgun Duty and Self-Defense Ammo by Dr. Roberts (DocGKR)
Then here (for 9mm and 380):
9mm Ammo Quest on Youtube by ShootingTheBull410
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:29 AM
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FYI, I clicked on the link in your post, and my security software put up a warning not to enter the site.
Same thing for me.

yep380 I sure as hell wouldn't order anything from that site
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:18 AM
yep380 yep380 is offline
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Same thing for me.

yep380 I sure as hell wouldn't order anything from that site
Thanks guys.

I didn't order from them. But, I don't get any warnings (using chrome).
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  #72  
Old 03-12-2017, 04:28 PM
Com 45acp Com 45acp is offline
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The above link for HST 124 grain is actually the +p stuff. Look at the pic of box in link before buying.

Last edited by Com 45acp; 03-12-2017 at 04:29 PM.
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  #73  
Old 03-12-2017, 04:58 PM
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I finally got some time to shoot my 150gr. Federal HST micro today. I should have gotten to it sooner in the range session, I could tell I was starting to get fatigued after 150 rounds or so. First impressions. 1. Softest shooting 9mm round I have ever experienced. 2. Seemed to shoot a bit higher than the 147gr. Federal FMJ 3. Ran through my Shield without a hitch.
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  #74  
Old 03-13-2017, 03:19 AM
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Thanks guys.

I didn't order from them. But, I don't get any warnings (using chrome).
It wasn't my browser that sent the warning, it was the security software provided (for an extra $10/month) by my internet service provider.
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:45 AM
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Thanks guys.

I didn't order from them. But, I don't get any warnings (using chrome).
Don't rely on the browser.

I got the warning from my anti virus/malware software
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Old 03-13-2017, 11:27 AM
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What I use:
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Old 03-13-2017, 11:47 PM
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Hornady critical defense - Bought one box of 25 rounds of this the other day and ran it through my new Shield and man does it love that ammo! Although my wallet doesn't like it

Ran through smooth as butter, no FTE's at all, where as I was mentioning in another thread that the 350 round bucket of Remington 115 g, man my SHield did NOT like that at all. Several locked slides and jams after about 50 rounds. I know some ammo just doesn't work well in some guns but good grief! lol
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:42 PM
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Default Hornady Critical Duty 135 +P in Shield 9mm

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Originally Posted by yep380 View Post
If anyone hasn't seen this yet, it's a well done comparison: http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...llistic-tests/
Thanks much for the link.
Curious that there was no Hornady ammo included. Looking for opinion and results on 9mm 135 Critical Duty + P.
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Old 05-17-2017, 02:36 PM
John Robert John Robert is offline
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Might want to look at Hornady American Gunner 124 gr +P JHP
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Old 05-17-2017, 04:53 PM
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Default Clever adage.....

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Originally Posted by Mark IV View Post
As mentioned already, nearly any one of several modern,popular brands (including Hornady) will suffice just fine.
The critical thing is that it cycles properly in your weapon, and there's only one way to determine that (and it ain't by asking strangers on the internet ).
These days, Federal's HST's are pretty widely considered the best-of-the-very-best, but the top-of-the-line stuff from Winchester,Hornady,Remington,Speer, and others, are very reliable and solid performers.
Personally, I'd go with whichever one was most readily available to you, and that you could most easily afford to shoot a box or two of, and then put a few boxes away. Hornady and Remignton Golder Sabres often seem to be more economical than the others, but the HST's can sometimes be found reasonably.
I HAS to run, In YOUR gun.

Some semi's are just picky about ammo.
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Old 05-17-2017, 06:01 PM
Neldon Neldon is offline
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Originally Posted by swsig View Post
My Shield 9 is unusually picky about ammo, so to insure that whatever SD ammo I carried would load, fire, and eject, I subjected several highly regarded rounds to reliability tests. My goal was to find a round that would fire at least 100 consecutive times without a failure.

The clear winner was Hornady Critical Duty 135g +P. It (so far) has fired 174 rounds without a single failure of any kind. It is the only SD round I've tried that has had zero failures.

In second is Speer Gold Dot 124g +P. After three FTEs which occurred early in my Shield's history, the Gold Dots have since fired 147 times with no failures.

Virtually tied for second is Remington Golden Saber 147g. The Goldern Sabers had one early FTE, then fired 227 times before a second FTE. They are also the most accurate of the top three rounds.

What about the vaunted HSTs? I tried Federal HST 124g +P rounds, and in a word, they were wretched. They had three failures to feed in 31 rounds. They would hang up on the bottom of my feed ramp. They were clearly not suitable for my Shield, so I quit testing them, and donated the remainder to my SIG P320. I could not find HST 147g rounds at the time, so I haven't tested them.
Thanks for the info and affirmation. 135 gr Critical Defense is my choice, my only question is about over-penetration and expansion.
The flex-lock keeps the bullet together when penetrating heavy objects and clothing, but does it also prevent expansion in other lighter scenarios?
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  #82  
Old 05-17-2017, 08:52 PM
Bleek Gilliam Bleek Gilliam is offline
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I like the CorBon DPX for my Shield

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  #83  
Old 05-17-2017, 09:14 PM
yep380 yep380 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neldon View Post
Thanks much for the link.
Curious that there was no Hornady ammo included. Looking for opinion and results on 9mm 135 Critical Duty + P.
It's in the list: http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...tic-tests/#9mm

400 Bad Request

Last edited by yep380; 05-17-2017 at 09:16 PM.
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  #84  
Old 05-17-2017, 09:21 PM
gqllc007 gqllc007 is offline
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Federal HST 124 Standard pressure is what you seek....Neldon you already heard that from me before LOL
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  #85  
Old 05-17-2017, 09:25 PM
Bleek Gilliam Bleek Gilliam is offline
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Best personal defense Ammo for shield 9mm? Best personal defense Ammo for shield 9mm? Best personal defense Ammo for shield 9mm? Best personal defense Ammo for shield 9mm? Best personal defense Ammo for shield 9mm?  
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Never understood all the love for Critical Defense. There's a reason it's not the choice for any agency I can think of. There's also a reason it's readily available at most big box stores and such. There's also a reason why they had to come out with Critical Duty. The Defense version is targeted at civilian market and not made to meet FBI testing protocols unlike the Duty version which is harder to find and designed to meet FBI standards. Hornady Critical Defense is an awesome example of the power of marketing. Look at how many people have adopted it as their choice over street proven options when it has very little if any reliable real world results.

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Old 05-17-2017, 10:13 PM
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dan323 dan323 is offline
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I use Sig Sauer V-crown 124 grain 9mm in my shield. It runs good. And I got it at Cabela's for $15.00 a box of 20.
9MM, 124GR, Elite V-Crown, JHP

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  #87  
Old 05-23-2017, 03:24 PM
Neldon Neldon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gqllc007 View Post
Federal HST 124 Standard pressure is what you seek....Neldon you already heard that from me before LOL
Hey there Gunquest.
Double LOL
Thought that sounded like your info. Good to hear from you.
Yes sir. My memory failed me and got the 135 +P instead. Switching to Federal today, then burn the Hornady this afternoon.
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Old 05-23-2017, 11:11 PM
MP1SG MP1SG is offline
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Unfortunataley the Critical duty/defense does not have any "Street Cred" There have not been a lot of actual street shootings (to my knowledge) Rounds like the HST, Gold Dot, Golden Saber, SXT have actual Street shootings results. NYPD seem to be very happy with their Gold Dot 124 +P rounds .
I'd stick with rounds that have been proven street results, The Critical duty/defense do well on ballistic gel as does the DPX, But I'll stick with the HST 124+P when I carry a 9mm.
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Old 05-24-2017, 07:53 PM
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AZHTfreak AZHTfreak is offline
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Default Federal HST (P#P9HST1,2,3or4)

As I'm sure previous posters to this thread have opined, and I'm late to the thread, just buy ANY flavor of Federal's HST (in the 50rd LE box - NOT the effing OVERPRICED 20rd retail box). I'm new to this forum & my 1st single stack, a Shield #10086. I've carried Federal #P9HST4 147gr +P in my my Steyr dbl stacks (3.6"-5.0") for the past 4 years with absolutely ZERO malfunctions. Put 500 rds - including 100 rds of #P9HST4 - through this puppy over the past couple weeks with the same result. Zero, ziltch, nada malfunctions, it eats everything from FM 115gr remans to the HSTs, happily! As far as I'm concerned, an 8+1 HST load in a Shield (or any other pistol) is the perfect Minute of Badguy for defensive pistol - BAR NONE...! Check out Ammo Quest\youtube for his 3" barreled FBI test comps and ammoseek.com - I just picked up 500rds from bonefroggunclub.com (NV) for $0.3971/rd with s/h ($18.25/50rd box before s/h). Oh, and NO, the 147gr +P HST isn't noticeably more snappy than my 124gr FMJ range ammo... Hard to tell the diff when my buddy candy-canes the rounds for me.

Last edited by AZHTfreak; 05-24-2017 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 05-24-2017, 11:17 PM
GoDevil Man GoDevil Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZHTfreak View Post
Put 500 rds - including 100 rds of #P9HST4 - through this puppy over the past couple weeks with the same result. Zero, ziltch, nada malfunctions, it eats everything from FM 115gr remans to the HSTs, happily! As far as I'm concerned, an 8+1 HST load in a Shield (or any other pistol) is the perfect Minute of Badguy for defensive pistol - BAR NONE...!
10-4 to this! I'm up to 420 rounds in my shield, including 20 HST 124 and tonight 50 147 HST. Ate all the HST no hiccups and 147 shot to POA from 10 yards.I had one Hangfire out of 200 Remington UMC on which I may have rode the slide. 100 cheap federals from Walmart all ran fine, as did 115 gr. PPU. Love the Shield!
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