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  #1  
Old 03-08-2017, 06:41 PM
rbuzz rbuzz is offline
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To get right to the point, I've had a 40 Shield for a couple of years and to be honest I've always been disappointed with it's accuracy. I realize that it's not intended to be a pin point accurate shooter, and I also realize that I'm never going to be a world class shooter, but hey, I do alright. I've been shooting for more years than I care to admit and have always been pretty accurate with any handgun I've tried, up until this Shield.
Now I've read all the posts about right handed shooters shooting low and to the left, and I realize the general concensus is that it's the operator's fault, not the gun's. Going with that I've spent a lot of time working on my grip, position of finger on the trigger, squeezing the trigger, etc.
I've added a Hogue Beavertail grip to the Shield to add some thickness to the Shield's narrow body and hopefully improve my grip on the gun. The Hogue grip is some of the best money I've ever spent. It's more comfortable, grippier (if that's a word), and just allows for a more natural grip on the gun. I've also added Truglow night sights for better sight acquisition. But after all the practice and the additions, I was still shooting consistently about 3" to the left. After reading the hundreds of posts that always stress the importance of having the front sight centered (which mine was) I finally decided that the only way to maybe correct this was to drift the sight to the left. So I did the calculations and moved it accordingly. Using the formula error X sight radius divided by distance to target = distance to move sight, I moved my sight to the left.
After shooting it at the range the Shield finally shoots where I aim it. At 7 yds I'm keeping all the shots within less than a 2" circle. At 15 yds it opens up a little, naturally, but still stays within about 5" circle, so I'm fairly satisfied. The only problem is that the amount that I had to move the sight causes the front sight to look way to far to the side, so far that it looks ridiculous. The rear sight is perfectly centered.
So, should I call it quits and accept the way the Shield is shooting now, or should I question why the sight had to be moved so far from center to get the accuracy I want? Am I compensating for my poor technique, or for a flaw in the Shield, or is this perfectly normal in some circumstances? I've never owned any brand or caliber handgun that has had to have the sight moved so far off center to get acceptable accuracy. In fact all of my firearms sight's look to be perfectly centered on their slides. The Shield just looks plain ridiculous.
I've tried to include some pictures to show the location of the front sight. The pictures pretty accurately show how much to the left the sight is.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 03-08-2017, 06:48 PM
mattwings mattwings is offline
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How does it shoot when someone else uses the firearm? I had an .40 SDVE that I thought was off for sure. Tried everything and "it" still shot left. I asked a buddy to use his sight pusher, before I did, he asked to shoot it, he had zero problem with accuracy. I eventually sold it, just could not deal with that .40 in that chassis.
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:59 PM
rbuzz rbuzz is offline
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I can't really say. I'm the only one who has shot it. I'm no expert by any means, but I have been shooting for many years and I've never had this experience with any other firearms from 22LR to .45 1911s to my 44 magnum and even a .25 Colt. I guess it's always a possibility, but I have a hard time accepting that it's my fault.
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  #4  
Old 03-08-2017, 07:25 PM
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I had the same experience with my shield. I was hitting low and left but not worth any other gun. I did a lot of examining my grip and found that I had a lot of slack in my hand. I could easily deflect the gun to the left simply by using my off hand to gently push the front of the barrel. This was the case no matter how tight I held the grip. If I took a deeper hold on the grip and pulled the trigger with the middle part of my finger instead of the tip it was much more solid and helped greatly. I later installed a Talon grip which made the grip thicker and much less slick and that fixed the problem.

Before you do anything else let someone else fire it for you and see what they think. I would bet it is something in your grip.

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  #5  
Old 03-08-2017, 07:35 PM
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I had similar issues, by far the least accurate weapon in my armory. Adjusting grip and trigger pull helped, but when I added the Apex Duty Trigger kit and a Houge grip, accuracy improved significantly.

Valistar
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  #6  
Old 03-08-2017, 08:41 PM
BigDog48 BigDog48 is offline
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Take a look at this chart:
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  #7  
Old 03-08-2017, 08:54 PM
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You've tried all kinds of things to get POA/POI. For a firearm that only you shoot, I'd be fine with the off-center sight if it gives you that target at 7 yards.
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Old 03-08-2017, 09:07 PM
gqllc007 gqllc007 is offline
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First off let someone else shoot it. You can also shoot it off a rest. Here is an exercise I want you to try....pretend you have a pistol in your hand.
Get into your customary two handed grip. While in that grip point your trigger finger at a specific target. Like when you were a kid shooting using a finger. Then keeping your interproximal phalange straight (the bone closest to your hand go ahead and pretend like you are pulling the trigger. Watch for movement in that interproximal phalange. You want that to stay pointing at your target and just your middle and distal phalanges should be moving to pull the trigger. SO basically in a nut shell point at the target with bone attached to your knuckle from your trigger finger(It is metacarpal number 2) while the rest of your finger pulls the trigger. That will help you from pushing the pistol to the left while pulling the trigger I hope you understood that Pretend the last two joints of your trigger finger are missing and point with whats left of your finger. Keep that straight pointed at your center of target.
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Old 03-08-2017, 09:33 PM
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How much time do you spend shooting Double Action with a Revolver. BTW, I mean CORRECT style double action NOT staging the trigger. Because there is NOTHING better than learning how to shoot in Double Action using a smooth and COMPLETE trigger stroke.

As for a platform, to rule out the effect of recoil causing issues I would recommend something like a S&W model 67 or 15. I will also tell you that it WILL take many hours at the range before you master that trigger. But once you do you'll have a skill that will be with you for life provided you do a bit of tune up practicing once or twice a month.

PS; if you haven't picked up on it yet, I suspect that you are pulling your shield left at the end of your trigger stroke and the recoil of the 40 caliber in this light of a pistol is probably one of the factors influencing this reaction. Quite simply you need to do a bit of Trigger Zen using a DA handgun that features a much more relaxing recoil profile. I can also tell you I learned this lesson with First Hand Real World Experience. Yeah, after 40 some years of shooting a handgun I'm still fighting a tendency to flinch. Aint no shame in that, it's a perfectly natural biological reaction.
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Old 03-09-2017, 12:56 AM
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I'm left handed and I used to shoot low and to the right with my shield.
I had the trigger lightened up a bit and added a pachmyr sleeve to the grip.
Now I can fire this thing a lot more accurately than when it was stock. I also shoot this thing better with 124gr than 115gr, so that's how I roll with it. this thing is so small that any trigger jerk or not enough support hand can throw you off.
I can snipe with my 9C with very little practice, with my shield I have to put in the range time or I lose my accuracy with it pretty quickly
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  #11  
Old 03-09-2017, 10:32 AM
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Bench rest the gun and fire. You will see how much is the shooter and how much is the gun.

Having someone else shoot it is an idea, but not as good as you suddenly shooting on target, once you aren't change the POA while pulling the trigger. Bench rest it or even better get a pistol rest.
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Old 03-09-2017, 10:52 AM
rbuzz rbuzz is offline
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I appreciate all of the comments and suggestions and will continue to work at improving my range time with the Shield. I forgot to mention that my Shield also has the Apex Duty/Carry kit installed and it does make a difference. That combined with the Hogue beavertail grip make shooting the Shield much more enjoyable.
I know that a lot of people state that changing the grip can help. Maybe I'm wrong, but holding any gun should be instinctive, not something that you have to adapt and change for each individual gun. I hold the Shield much the same way I hold any other handgun I own. The Shield goes directly into the fleshy web-like part of my hand naturally and feels relatively good. I don't see how anyone can hold the gun in any other position. With the Hogue grip, the second and third fingers have a definite formed pad to fit to, leaving the little finger to either go under the grip, or in my case into the Pierce magazine extension. It is the only way one could grip the Shield. My trigger finger hits the trigger at the first joint with the trigger being contacted with the finger pad right next to the joint. I have tried with the trigger finger pad more centered on the trigger with the same results.
I also have a M&P 40Compact and have absolutely no problems with accuracy, although the 40Compact does have a larger grip. That's one reason I installed the Hogue grip as it gives the Shield a little more girth and does away with the sometimes shifty grip you can get on a Shield because of the narrower, hard plastic grip. With the wider Hogue grip it allows the Shield to be gripped naturally and in the same way every time.
I've practiced dry firing the Shield hundreds of time watching to see if the front sights shift in the front when pressing the trigger. That used to be a problem with the original trigger (which was terrible), but since installing the Apex kit, movement is minimal or non existent.
After trying everything that I could possibly think of, I reluctantly drifted the front sight to the left. Accuracy is where I am satisfied with it, but I have to admit that seeing the sight so far off center bothers me.
I will follow the suggestion and have someone else shoot it. With the sight adjusted as it is now, if it is me, then the gun should shoot to the right for someone else. That should give me a pretty good idea of whether it's a problem with me, or the gun. I should add that using a bench rest now gives me very good accuracy. Using a standing up stance with a two handed grip gives similar results, although naturally not quite as accurate.Thanks again for the help.

Last edited by rbuzz; 03-09-2017 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 03-09-2017, 11:21 AM
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I just aim three inches to the right. A lot less hassle than grips and sight adjustments and finger adjustments, etc.. A lot easier to train and practice. Its not the way the pros recommend, but it works.
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Old 03-09-2017, 11:41 AM
gqllc007 gqllc007 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbuzz View Post
I appreciate all of the comments and suggestions and will continue to work at improving my range time with the Shield. I forgot to mention that my Shield also has the Apex Duty/Carry kit installed and it does make a difference. That combined with the Hogue beavertail grip make shooting the Shield much more enjoyable.
I know that a lot of people state that changing the grip can help. Maybe I'm wrong, but holding any gun should be instinctive, not something that you have to adapt and change for each individual gun. I hold the Shield much the same way I hold any other handgun I own. The Shield goes directly into the fleshy web-like part of my hand naturally and feels relatively good. I don't see how anyone can hold the gun in any other position. With the Hogue grip, the second and third fingers have a definite formed pad to fit to, leaving the little finger to either go under the grip, or in my case into the Pierce magazine extension. It is the only way one could grip the Shield. My trigger finger hits the trigger at the first joint with the trigger being contacted with the finger pad right next to the joint. I have tried with the trigger finger pad more centered on the trigger with the same results.
I also have a M&P 40Compact and have absolutely no problems with accuracy, although the 40Compact does have a larger grip. That's one reason I installed the Hogue grip as it gives the Shield a little more girth and does away with the sometimes shifty grip you can get on a Shield because of the narrower, hard plastic grip. With the wider Hogue grip it allows the Shield to be gripped naturally and in the same way every time.
I've practiced dry firing the Shield hundreds of time watching to see if the front sights shift in the front when pressing the trigger. That used to be a problem with the original trigger (which was terrible), but since installing the Apex kit, movement is minimal or non existent.
After trying everything that I could possibly think of, I reluctantly drifted the front sight to the left. Accuracy is where I am satisfied with it, but I have to admit that seeing the sight so far off center bothers me.
I will follow the suggestion and have someone else shoot it. With the sight adjusted as it is now, if it is me, then the gun should shoot to the right for someone else. That should give me a pretty good idea of whether it's a problem with me, or the gun. I should add that using a bench rest now gives me very good accuracy. Using a standing up stance with a two handed grip gives similar results, although naturally not quite as accurate.Thanks again for the help.
Sometimes guns shoot off to one side or the other. I had a Ruger LCP II shoot 3 inches left for me and 5 other people at 7 yards. I sent it back to Ruger and they replaced the slide. Now it shoots about 1 1/2 inches to the left but that's close enough for me on that type of pistol. I agree with you that you should be able to grab your pistol instinctively and start shooting straight. That is if you don't have any bad habits that is causing you to push the gun to the left. Some people feel the support hand should be applying 60% of the pressure and strong hand is 40%. There is also the philosophy of gripping your pistol with a death grip
Why Tight Is RightGuns Magazine.com | Guns Magazine.com

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Old 03-09-2017, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbuzz View Post
My trigger finger hits the trigger at the first joint with the trigger being contacted with the finger pad right next to the joint. I have tried with the trigger finger pad more centered on the trigger with the same results.
Try the opposite direction and put your finger farther into the trigger so that you are using the pad between the first and second knuckle to pull the trigger. You'll have a much more solid grip and prevent pushing the gun left.



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Old 03-09-2017, 03:54 PM
rbuzz rbuzz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayoutalker View Post
Try the opposite direction and put your finger farther into the trigger so that you are using the pad between the first and second knuckle to pull the trigger. You'll have a much more solid grip and prevent pushing the gun left.
Cliff
I'll give that a try the next time I'm at the range. Just trying it out, it seems unnatural to me to grip the gun that way, but who knows, after trying that for a while it may seem more natural. I do follow your idea that this grip would possibly prevent pushing the gun left. Thanks for the idea.
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Old 03-09-2017, 05:52 PM
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There is considerable variation in accuracy between individual mass-produced short-barreled guns like the Shield. As Exhibit A, I present the photo below. The target on the left is 14 rounds from my range's rental Shield .45 with the target at 20 yards. This was the first time I'd shot a Shield .45. I was so impressed with the Shield's accuracy, I went out and bought one. The target at the right is 57 rounds from my Shield .45, also at 20 yards, after 700 rounds of break-in shooting. Can you see the difference, boys and girls?

I was able to place 80% (11 out of 14) of my shots within 2" of the bullseye with the rental Shield. I was able to place only 28% (16 out of 57) of my shots within 2" of the bullseye with my Shield. Two sessions shooting from a bench rest did not produce better results. To say I'm profoundly disappointed is a huge understatement, especially after the misadventures I had with my Shield 9. (See my Shield 9 thread here: Shield RSA one more time)

There are some positives, however. I have not had the FTE/lockback/dropped magazine problems that have been reported by other Shield .45 owners, so my Shield is reliable, at least. And its accuracy is slowly improving with use. Enough so, that I'm going to shoot at least 1500 rounds before I make a final determination as to its accuracy. (I'm assuming the rental version I shot so well had at least 1500 rounds through it at the time.) I'll report back when I have additional info to share.

My suggestion: Keep shooting. A lot.
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Old 03-09-2017, 05:55 PM
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To me the front sight looks fine. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Just the pad of your finger should be on the trigger and squeeze straight back. Make sure you don't contact the frame with your finger.
Your target looks good.
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Old 03-09-2017, 10:07 PM
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I have the 40 pc and a 9mm ported barrel for it also. I consider it an excellent close range survival self defense firearm. I'll get my 8" Colt 357 for accurate range shooting.
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Old 03-10-2017, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayoutalker View Post
Try the opposite direction and put your finger farther into the trigger so that you are using the pad between the first and second knuckle to pull the trigger. You'll have a much more solid grip and prevent pushing the gun left.
Cliff
I took the Shield to the range today and followed your suggestion as far as the grip. I shot several magazines with this modified grip so that I could get used to it and compare it with the grip that I have been using. No real difference in point of impact for me. So I think I'll just continue to use the grip that is more instinctive and more comfortable for me. It was a good idea and worth the try though.
On the plus side, using a hand rest, the Shield is dead on accurate at 7 yds, as shown in the picture below, and pretty darn good at 15 yds. I think I've just got one of those guns that for some reason will only shoot accurately if the sights are offset from center. As you can see from the target, most of the hits were dead center with only a couple off slightly, probably my fault.
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Old 03-10-2017, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbuzz View Post
I took the Shield to the range today and followed your suggestion as far as the grip. I shot several magazines with this modified grip so that I could get used to it and compare it with the grip that I have been using. No real difference in point of impact for me. So I think I'll just continue to use the grip that is more instinctive and more comfortable for me. It was a good idea and worth the try though.
On the plus side, using a hand rest, the Shield is dead on accurate at 7 yds, as shown in the picture below, and pretty darn good at 15 yds. I think I've just got one of those guns that for some reason will only shoot accurately if the sights are offset from center. As you can see from the target, most of the hits were dead center with only a couple off slightly, probably my fault.
It was worth a try. One more thing you might try to make the sight look a bit better is move the front half way back and move the rear the same amount in the opposite direction. It should shoot straight and it might not bother you as much.

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Old 03-11-2017, 11:33 AM
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Rbuzz, I can sympathize. I used to carry a Gen 1 G17 for duty 20-some years ago. I started shooting way left with the 17 when I switched from the factory to Trijicon night sights (1991), and had to drift the rear sight all the way over to the right to keep my rounds centered. We qualified out to 50 yards with handguns at the time. I still have that gun and it currently wears HeiniebSlant Pros. It shoots more or less POA now with the rear centered. I used this pistol with the Trijicons to shoot all the numbers to get me through a 3-letter firearms instructor course. At the same time, Glocks I've carried in 40 and 45 with the same style Trijicons have always shot POA. I currently have a Gen 4 26 that has Trijicon HDs and it also shoots POA. My M&Ps have run a variety of sights, and all shoot POA with the sights centered, even my 9mm Shield.

You may just have that "one gun" that is going to shoot differently, or it is something you're doing with a gun shooting a relatively powerful cartridge relative to its size and width that is so much different to you. I went from revolvers to the G17 back in 1991 with minimal transition and that may have contributed to me shooting that pistol to the left. Like others have recommended, consider having someone else shoot the gun and see there they are hitting.
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Old 03-11-2017, 07:14 PM
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[QUOTE=
You may just have that "one gun" that is going to shoot differently[/QUOTE]

I'm beginning to think that is the case, although I have one more thing to check out. I also have a M&P 40 Compact and although it is a little larger, I have no problem with accuracy with that.
I thought that by adding the Hogue beavertail grip to the Shield that it would possibly make a difference. The Hogue grip did add a little girth to the grip and is more comfortable to shoot, but had no effect on accuracy.
My last resort is to get together with my nephew. He also has a 40Shield. I would like to let him shoot my Shield to see if he has the same results, and I want to shoot his to see how my accuracy is with his Shield. From what he tells me, he has no problem with the accuracy of his Shield.
Until then, with the sights adjusted as they are, I'm having no problem with accuracy, it's just to me the front sight looks strange being noticeably off center. But maybe I'm just being too particular. I'm now getting consistent accuracy that I'm satisfied with, and that's what important.
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