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Old 03-12-2017, 09:51 PM
ontargetagain ontargetagain is offline
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Default Unsure trigger reset on M&P 45acp

Was at LGS today and they had a nice M&P 45 that I took a look at. Trigger SA felt good, crisp however there was no 'click' in the reset? I tried it a few times, handed to employee and for sure neither one of us detected a distinctive 'click' thought he trigger did reset.

I believe someone had modified the trigger to reduce the SA break but any idea why there would not be a click in the reset? Is this a fault or a result of a trigger mod?

I also picked up a new M&P 2.0 to try, horrible grit&drag on pre travel but a nice break and short reset. Oddly no felt grit and drag if the slide was slightly pulled back so something must be chafing into the slide?

I'm looking for a polymer full size 45 cap, I like my S&W revolvers but so far I like the SIG P320 triggers best.
Karl
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Old 03-14-2017, 04:37 PM
Dpris Dpris is offline
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What would be the significance of an audible re-set to you?
Denis
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Old 03-14-2017, 05:23 PM
Dpris Dpris is offline
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Or, to put it another way-
What would be the importance of an audible re-set to you?
Denis
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Old 03-14-2017, 06:11 PM
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That's not uncommon, both my FS45 and my 45c didn't had any audible or felt reset. It can be improved with a newer slide stop release or with the apex sear. I have apex duty carry kit on mine and it got a lot better.
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Old 03-15-2017, 04:43 PM
Dpris Dpris is offline
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Maybe I should re-phrase:
Why would you want an audible re-set?
Denis
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:02 PM
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"Oddly no felt grit and drag if the slide was slightly pulled back so something must be chafing into the slide?"


Most of the grit in a new M&P is between the linkage and the striker block. Simple to polish out, or just shoot it awhile.
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:06 PM
ontargetagain ontargetagain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpris View Post
Maybe I should re-phrase:
Why would you want an audible re-set?
Denis
Well since you have managed to ask the question in three different phrases I owe you an answer

I primarily shoot revolvers and have owned a standard S&W 1911. I have been searching for a striker of hammer fired 45 semi. I am spoiled on triggers that don't have take up, creep and overtravel so I am a bit of a trigger snoob you might say.

In handling every new Smith, Sig, Beretta, CZ, Ruger pistol I have not only 'heard' but felt a positive re-set. No I don't need to hear one for any particular shooting reason but in evaluating a used gun I found it odd to not hear it and was uncertain about the feel during the travel back to the reset. So my concern in not 'hearing' the reset was essentially a mere question in whether this was an indication of a trigger modification or pending issue that may hinder proper function.

There are certain 'sounds' and inputs from working triggers that can be tell tale signs of good or bad, so without having enough experience in how modified triggers feel or sound I asked the question..................Now do you have any feedback for me?
Karl

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Old 03-15-2017, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Shield9mm View Post
That's not uncommon, both my FS45 and my 45c didn't had any audible or felt reset. It can be improved with a newer slide stop release or with the apex sear. I have apex duty carry kit on mine and it got a lot better.
Thanks
Karl
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:11 PM
ontargetagain ontargetagain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
"Oddly no felt grit and drag if the slide was slightly pulled back so something must be chafing into the slide?"


Most of the grit in a new M&P is between the linkage and the striker block. Simple to polish out, or just shoot it awhile.
Thank you
Karl
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:31 PM
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The reason there is not much "click" when it resets is due to how it works:


There just isn't much pressure pushing the trigger bar back as it moves in front of the sear. They have modified the slide stop with a little bump. This puts more pressure on the trigger bar and gives a little more sound when the it resets.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:38 PM
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Just personally makes no difference on an audible re-set to me at all, since I'll never hear it shooting.
If the trigger functions, I'm seeing no importance whatever to a click I won't hear & I was hoping you, or somebody else, could explain why it IS so important to others.
Denis
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Old 03-16-2017, 12:03 AM
Kenny53 Kenny53 is offline
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I have three M&P pistols, FS 45, FS 9MM Compact 9MM. The 45 has an apex trigger the other have the original triggers. If you dry fire and compare the triggers side by side you can tell a difference in the Apex and original triggers. If I am shooting I don't notice that much. Not sure if I would spend money on another apex.
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Old 03-17-2017, 06:03 PM
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The audible click doesn't really matter if you're using hearing protection. However, the louder the "click", the more you will feel the reset thru the trigger.
Check your slide lock assy and see if there are additional strips of metal welded on. They increase the side pressure on the trigger bar, making it "snap" back into place under the sear. I think if you call S&W, they may install the "new" one.
They run about $15 from gandrtactical.com.
Notice the "humps" where the trigger bar rides.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:33 PM
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The reset is easily fixed by "slightly" bending the trigger bar inwards at the rear. I do it to all of my M&P's and have a great reset on all of them.
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:18 AM
walkin' trails walkin' trails is offline
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The "audible" reset concept seems, in my recollection, to be a "Glock" thing and was seized upon by trainers to reinforce trigger mastery to new shooters and transitioning LEOs. I attended two LE academies with a S&W 686 and a Sig p228 respectively (and a bit more informally transitioned to Glocks) and don't recall that the audible click concept was ever brought up until I attended an FBI regional firearms instructor school in 1999. The FBI had begun the Glock transition a year or two before. I have taught and still make reference to trigger reset in this Glock-majority world, but have come to conclude that it is not a stumbling block if a pistol does not have a Glock-like audible reset. It is a reference point, in my opinion, for new shooters mastering the trigger, but not something that should be placed over pistol reliability, ergonomics, or the the accurate delivery of rounds on target. Once you learn how to properly reset a trigger during follow-up, you'll rely more on feel and experience than a click.

The first reports I read of M&P pistol evaluations criticized the triggers, especially the lack of an audible reset. Anyway, in probably 2006-07, I was on the road training a LE task force. One of the departments contributing officers was die-hard S&W, and had traded all their S&W 99s for new M&P 40s FS and compact. I got to fire and M&P for the first time. The officer who carried the pistol was somewhat gun-savvy, and warned me of a crappy trigger with vague reset. Remember that his last carry gun was a TDA 99. Though I had been carrying and shooting Glocks for years, I did not notice that this M&P pistol had "vague" reset. In the 50 rounds I shot, I never short-stroked the triggerbor felt it was inferior to the 5lb Glock systems I'd become used to dealing with. In fact, I decided that the S&W availed me to make faster follow-up shots.

Trigger reset is important to trigger press and follow- through. I think, however, it is more of a tool to teach new and/or struggling shooters how not to slap the trigger by keeping their finger in place (trigger held back) in the follow- through after the shot so to be prepared for the next. That is a sometimes difficult concept for a new or problem shooter to grasp.

I have four M&Ps at the moment, and all of them have a noticible trigger reaet. All of them are stock trigger components. I've handled some M&Ps at the stores that have had really vague, crappy triggers, yet it has been a long time since I've encountered one of them. S&W advertises the M&P with a 6.5 lb trigger, and in my experience that is more or less the average of what you get. All of them seem to be gritty out of the box, but with lube and 200 rounds, followed by a cleaning, the grit is gone. A serious shooter is supposed to engage in a dry fire regiment to fully master the trigger,( with all safety measures in place, of course), and that will further smooth things out. With mastery of the trigger comes intimate famialirity with the reset regardless of noises. And with a new M&P, in addition to a gritty out of the box trigger, you get an ergonomic package that fits more shooters than the Glocks, better grip angle, and much better factory sights.

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Old 03-19-2017, 02:41 PM
Dpris Dpris is offline
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In your experience, how does an audible reset help with new people learning the trigger?
Where & how does it become a useful learning tool?

Not arguing, just looking for info.

We transitioned to Glocks in '88 & I never ran into the click issue until the last five years or so.
And that's only in reading about it here & there, where people seem to think it's a gotta-have.
Denis
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Old 03-19-2017, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpris View Post
In your experience, how does an audible reset help with new people learning the trigger?
Where & how does it become a useful learning tool?

Not arguing, just looking for info.

We transitioned to Glocks in '88 & I never ran into the click issue until the last five years or so.
And that's only in reading about it here & there, where people seem to think it's a gotta-have.
Denis


Only in terms of giving a new or problem shooter a reference point - during dry fire - all in trying to teach them to hold the trigger back during recoil and follow thru so they don't slap the trigger when back up on target. Again, not an absolute, engraved in stone fundamental in its own right, and certainly overblown. I've seen some problem shooters with whom slapping the trigger was coupled with other issues, and such techniques seemed to help them slow down and focus a little better.


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Old 03-19-2017, 06:13 PM
Dpris Dpris is offline
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I couldn't care less about the click & I've never understood why it'd be such an issue.
Thanks for the comments.

I'm also in a different category on the actual re-set length, too.
I shoot a number of different handgun types each year, and I'm what you'd probably call a "slapper".

I don't work with any one gun exclusively to the point where a super-short re-set becomes so ingrained in my finger that I'm likely to bind up the trigger on a different gun in short-stroking that gun's re-set.

I just let my finger go far enough forward on everything to be SURE I've got a re-set, which means I'm slapping the shorter re-sets on some but ensuring a full re-set on others.

There were some Internet claims of the new Colt Cobra "locking up" at the industry SHOT Show's Shooting Day back in January.
Turns out the samples apparently didn't actually lock up, it was more a matter of semantics.

Shooters used to short-re-set pistols were not letting the DA trigger completely re-set in full-length travel before trying to shoot follow-up shots, and that obviously "bound up" the trigger temporarily, it didn't "lock up" the trigger.

My regular carry is an M&P, switching to the better 2.0, as I've mentioned elsewhere.

I won't center my entire shooting world on that short re-set, and teach my finger to shoot it exclusively with that re-set.

During the year, I know I'll be firing revolvers & other pistols with different re-sets as part of my job, and out in the wilds I'll almost certainly be carrying a DA magnum revolver of some sort for personal use.

I don't want the M&P to cause me to bind up a revolver if I need a couple quick follow-ups on large critters.

So I'll keep on slappin'.
Got the official "I'ma Slapper!" T-Shirt ordered.
Denis
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Old 03-19-2017, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
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...I'm what you'd probably call a "slapper".
If you're shooting like this and hitting what you intend, then continue on. However, most people who slap at the trigger have mediocre to very poor accuracy.

Nobody cares about the shot. Everybody cares about the result of the shot. We all want the bullets to go to a particular place. In defensive shooting we need them to stop the threat. In precision shooting we want them as close to the X as possible. In either case, it's where the hole is that's really important.

So, if you can slap at the trigger and every hole is ending up where you want it, continue slapping. However, most need better trigger control than that. The reset can be used as a training tool to learn just how far to let the trigger out without the trigger finger flying off and causing the shooter to slap at the trigger.
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:02 PM
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Yep.
My circumstances are only relative to me.
Denis
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:57 PM
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I've gone back and forth between striker fired semis (M&Ps and Glocks) and revolvers (most frequently J-frames) and never had any issues with trigger reset or short stroking. The only exception has been with pistols that had unusually long DAO pulls such as the Ruger LC9. They seemed to have a false reset.


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