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Old 08-20-2013, 01:06 PM
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Default Problems with new S&W M&P Shield 9mm

After a long time on the list, I got my S&W M&P Shield 9mm, took it to the range put about 50 rounds through it had a FTE after that tried to put another 100 rounds through it had 3 more FTE and 1 stuck in the pipe. Had to have gunsmith get it out. Took it back to where I bought it they called S&W and was told to send it to them. Has anyone else had these problems? I hope S&W makes it right and it comes back and works ok?
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:07 PM
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I have not....What type of ammo were you using and are you a new shooter?
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:47 PM
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I was using Remington 124gr. Range ammo. No not new shooter, no limp wresting. Yes I did clean it before taking it to the range. I like it very much, hope they get it fixed. I want it for ccw.
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:26 PM
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I had this happen with my XDS9 when i first got it. After some shooting it, it finally broke in and worked fine. Although i no longer own the XDS, because I like my Shields much better. I'm just saying that it got better after some shooting.

I've also had this happen with one of my Kimber UC 1911's. Also once again, it got better after i broke it in. Different guns have different tolerences. Some need a break in and others dont. It happens across all manufacturers.
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:40 PM
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The only problem I have had with my Shield is that it goes through ammo way to quickly, which is costing me a small fortune.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:22 PM
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Has anyone had to send one to S&W to repair? I think they will fix it? Maybe I am too cranky? I believe when one pays the price they ask for these guns you should be able to take them out of the box, clean them, shoot them and have them be reliable. I know several years back I could buy a gun from S&W and not worry about reliability, or braking one in. Maybe quality control should be better.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:16 PM
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I had to send a 340 M&P .357 back b/c the cylinder was lose. They fixed it and had it back to me w/I ten days, but I agree it should not happen.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlg View Post
Has anyone had to send one to S&W to repair? I think they will fix it? Maybe I am too cranky? I believe when one pays the price they ask for these guns you should be able to take them out of the box, clean them, shoot them and have them be reliable. I know several years back I could buy a gun from S&W and not worry about reliability, or braking one in. Maybe quality control should be better.
Read through the forum. You will discover a fair number of threads of guns having to be sent back for warranty work. Pistols are assembled by humans, with tolerances that sometime lead to a less than perfect condition. I personally think you may have been premature in sending it back. With the current backlog after their summer break, I think you might be disappointed with the turn around time.

good luck
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:17 PM
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Remington ammo isn't great but this sounds pretty extreme.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:14 PM
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I don't mind if it takes a while. I just want them to get it right. I really like this gun. It is just what I and a lot of folks really want for ccw.
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:14 AM
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I have not had those issues. The three times I've had issues (mag drop, slide not locking after last round fired and 1 FTE) were operator handling issues...not firearm issues. Good luck with yours. S&W will make it right.
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:56 AM
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Lots of folks have had reliably problems with these pistols.

Send it back to S&W.

If it doesn't work every time, it's no good for SD.

S&W gets away with shoddy production and design when consumers accept it.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rpg View Post
Lots of folks have had reliably problems with these pistols.

Send it back to S&W.

If it doesn't work every time, it's no good for SD.

S&W gets away with shoddy production and design when consumers accept it.
First time I've read such a blanket statement against S&W.

Strongly disagree with "lots of folks...have had problems".
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:21 AM
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I don’t mean any disrespect to anyone. It has only been in the last couple of years that I have been hearing that you need to shoot a couple hundred rounds through a semi-auto to break it in. I bought semi-autos years ago and never heard that and never had these problems. I am not an expert by any means. I bought a cheap $250.00 kel-Teck pf9 (they also have lifetime warranty) a few months ago took it out of the box (no cleaning) run 200 rounds through it with no problems. I just expect more form a reputable Co. like S&W. I can also understand a bad one will get by them once and a while, but there seems to be way too many folks having to send these Shields back because of these issues.
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
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I don’t mean any disrespect to anyone. It has only been in the last couple of years that I have been hearing that you need to shoot a couple hundred rounds through a semi-auto to break it in. I bought semi-autos years ago and never heard that and never had these problems. I am not an expert by any means. I bought a cheap $250.00 kel-Teck pf9 (they also have lifetime warranty) a few months ago took it out of the box (no cleaning) run 200 rounds through it with no problems. I just expect more form a reputable Co. like S&W. I can also understand a bad one will get by them once and a while, but there seems to be way too many folks having to send these Shields back because of these issues.
I think that gets thrown around and assumed that it's for the weapons benefit. Personally, I think it's for breaking in the shooter...who ultimately over time and practice, learns to control and manipulate the weapon better. I've never had to "break" in a M&P, Glock, Sig, Beretta, SA, FN, etc, etc..
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:41 PM
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Guns with extremely tight tolerances ( think wilson, brown, and baer ) do require time to break in. Sloppy guns usually do not. Expense, does not guarantee reliability.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rpg View Post
Lots of folks have had reliably problems with these pistols.

Send it back to S&W.

If it doesn't work every time, it's no good for SD.

S&W gets away with shoddy production and design when consumers accept it.
Me and all my family & friends (many M&P shooters among us) must be the luckiest ***'s alive because none of us have had Ny reliability, durability or accuracy issues among us. These guns just work. Occasionally someone gets a lemon, but it's a rarity, just like with any other company. Go over to GT you'll see threads on malfunctions everyday, doesn't mean Glocks are unreliable (brass to the face aside), it means a few lemons get out here and there.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:55 PM
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Out of three people I personally know with a 9 mm Shield, two had to send theirs back for warranty work within the first 150 rounds.

I've read several folks on this forum with problems.

I've read several folks on this forum with NO problems.

At this point, I'm not sure what to believe.

I do, however, have a vested interest, as I've been thinking Shield for my CCW. Liked it better than the Springfield, Ruger, etc. Hope this is just an isolated issue and / or quickly resolved.
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:07 PM
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I hope the OP gave his new gun a thorough cleaning before it was shot for the 1st time. Sometimes chips, & shavings from the manufacturing process can be in the gun, & need to be cleaned out before the initial use. Also, it's possible with the extremely high demand for the Shield, there is a rush to get them to the LGS which might cause quality to be lacking. I know whenever our LGS gets one, it was test fired a few days before. I figure since the dealer cost is about $100 less than a similar M&P 9c, or 40c, shortcuts were taken to save the $100. GARY
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:58 PM
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First of all, I hate acronyms without an explanation first. You said you had several "FTEs" the first time you shot the gun. Were they Failure to Extract or Failure to Eject? There is a difference. Until we know which, we can't help diagnose the problem.

Quote:
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I believe when one pays the price they ask for these guns...
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds like you think the M&P is expensive; it's not. In fact, it is at the lower end of the spectrum.

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Guns with extremely tight tolerances ( think wilson, brown, and baer ) do require time to break in. Sloppy guns usually do not. Expense, does not guarantee reliability.
My Brown did not need a break in period, but maybe it is unique. Neither of my M&Ps needed a break in. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a gun, no matter the price, to work right out of the box.

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I hope the OP gave his new gun a thorough cleaning before it was shot for the 1st time.
He stated that he did. Look at the original post.
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:35 AM
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I'm not taking either side on the "there's been a lot of people not happy with s&w recently" debate, but I wanted to bring up a few points...

1)People are ever-increasingly using the internet and joining forums as these.

2)People are not as likely to talk about how happy they are with a gun as how unhappy they are with a gun.

3)With what's been going on overall in this country in the last few years, I would guess there's been a big increase in gun buying. I say guess because I'm pretty sure, but don't have the stats. Say 1 in 100 of a particular gun has problems, well when more 100's are sold more 1's are going to be sold.

So it could be a decline in quality, or an increase in numbers and hearing about it. Either way, only two issues I've had with any of my Smiths is losing a spring, and finding ammo.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:34 AM
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As a self defense weapon, I cannot imagine anyone purchasing a Shield without having the intent of putting 500+ rounds through it to make sure you can use it effectively, instinctively, and reliably. Therein lies the break in process.

I experienced 3 Failures to extract in the first 150 rounds. SINCE THEN, I have not had one failure in the following 750+ rounds.

I think anyone that sends a gun back to the manufacturer without using it extensively is setting themselves up for disappointment when they get it back from S&W with "No Problem Found". I find that this usually occurs with inexperienced shooters.

This is not to say that S&W doesn't occasionally send out a gun with a defect- it is put together by humans, so errors do happen. Keep in mind that this is not an expensive gun by any stretch. But for what it was designed to do as a self defense weapon, it is an extreme value compared to its competitors.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
First of all, I hate acronyms without an explanation first. You said you had several "FTEs" the first time you shot the gun. Were they Failure to Extract or Failure to Eject? There is a difference. Until we know which, we can't help diagnose the problem.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds like you think the M&P is expensive; it's not. In fact, it is at the lower end of the spectrum.

My Brown did not need a break in period, but maybe it is unique. Neither of my M&Ps needed a break in. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a gun, no matter the price, to work right out of the box.

He stated that he did. Look at the original post.

Sorry for not explaining my problem correctly. - Failure to Extract or Failure to Eject. I had 3 jam and would not let the live round load, is that Failure to Eject? I had one stay in the barrel and had to take it to gunsmith to get it out (he removed the live round from the barrel) is that Failure to Extract? He told me to shoot it on his range so he could watch me to make sure it was not me and was the gun. I had one jam while he watched he said it was the gun. And the rest is history. As for price of gun $450.00, I know other guns cost a lot more.
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziemann View Post
As a self defense weapon, I cannot imagine anyone purchasing a Shield without having the intent of putting 500+ rounds through it to make sure you can use it effectively, instinctively, and reliably. Therein lies the break in process.

I experienced 3 Failures to extract in the first 150 rounds. SINCE THEN, I have not had one failure in the following 750+ rounds.

I think anyone that sends a gun back to the manufacturer without using it extensively is setting themselves up for disappointment when they get it back from S&W with "No Problem Found". I find that this usually occurs with inexperienced shooters.

This is not to say that S&W doesn't occasionally send out a gun with a defect- it is put together by humans, so errors do happen. Keep in mind that this is not an expensive gun by any stretch. But for what it was designed to do as a self defense weapon, it is an extreme value compared to its competitors.
I am not a professional by any means, but I have been shooting pistols from age 14 I am now 67. I have an S&W 642 with about 900 rounds through it I use for self-defense now. I liked the Shield and think it will make a good cc gun? I always go to the range once a week and put 150 rounds through my cc gun. I would not normally be concerned but I thought the trouble my new Shield was having was unacceptable and so did the gunsmith. If S&W is going to advertise it as self-defense then I expect it to be reliable, no matter what the cost of the gun. With that said I believe S&W will take care of it. I do not believe it will come back "No Problem Found".
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:39 AM
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There seems to be confusion with terminology. Lets see if we can clear it up.

FTL - failure to load. Chamber is clear but round does not completely enter chamber.

FTE - failure to extract. Gun fires, but casing is left in chamber. It will probably try to load a new round, but will jam new round against blocked chambed.

Failure to eject. Gun fires, round is extracted, but does not clear the port before a new round is chambered. Often called a stovepipe because the open end of the case sticks out the side.



Aggressive hollow points can be problematic. The slightest burr on the feed ramp, breech face, magazine lips, or extractor can cause havoc until they are either worn in or removed.

Being able to identify how the gun malfunctions is 90 percent of making it right.
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:12 PM
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Badquaker posted an excellent list.

wlg,
The round that "stayed in the barrel", was it a live round you didn't fire that was stuck in the chamber or was it a bullet that didn't leave the bore (lands and grooves) after being fired?


If it was stuck in the chamber, considering you were using factory ammo, you could have an improperly sized chamber. It's unlikely, but it does happen. A chamber that is slightly tight could cause all the trouble you're having.

I do not agree with putting 500 rounds through the gun if an obvious problem can be discovered early. It would just be wasting rounds. An unfired round being stuck in the chamber is not something that will likely fix itself by shooting a few rounds.
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Badquaker posted an excellent list.

wlg,
The round that "stayed in the barrel", was it a live round you didn't fire that was stuck in the chamber or was it a bullet that didn't leave the bore (lands and grooves) after being fired?


If it was stuck in the chamber, considering you were using factory ammo, you could have an improperly sized chamber. It's unlikely, but it does happen. A chamber that is slightly tight could cause all the trouble you're having.

I do not agree with putting 500 rounds through the gun if an obvious problem can be discovered early. It would just be wasting rounds. An unfired round being stuck in the chamber is not something that will likely fix itself by shooting a few rounds.
It was a live round that was stuck in the chamber, and the slide was stuck. That is why I took it to a gunsmith.
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:10 PM
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Closer.....

Live round stuck in the chamber, slide locked to round.


Did you try to fire it? Or was it out of battery?

Did you see the round after it was removed? Was the lip of the case rolled back?

If the case was rolled back, was it to the inside or outside?

I am leaning towards a tight chamber, but I have seen commercial ammo with defects that would lock up if loaded.

What ammo was used?
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badquaker View Post
Closer.....

Live round stuck in the chamber, slide locked to round.


Did you try to fire it? Or was it out of battery?

Did you see the round after it was removed? Was the lip of the case rolled back?

If the case was rolled back, was it to the inside or outside?

I am leaning towards a tight chamber, but I have seen commercial ammo with defects that would lock up if loaded.

What ammo was used?
I was using Remington 115gr range ammo. It was out of battery. The lip of the case was rolled back and was on the outside.

Last edited by wlg; 08-22-2013 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:44 PM
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We have a winner.....

Either a sharp edge (throat to chamber) peeled that back, or the ammo was the culprit.

Maybe the throat wasn't properly dressed at the factory. If so, it would explain all your issues. It's a 5 minute repair, or a couple hundred rounds of practice.
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
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We have a winner.....

Either a sharp edge (throat to chamber) peeled that back, or the ammo was the culprit.

Maybe the throat wasn't properly dressed at the factory. If so, it would explain all your issues. It's a 5 minute repair, or a couple hundred rounds of practice.
Thanks for your help. When I get it back from S&W (the gunsmith called S&W and they wanted me to send it to them) I'll let you know what they found. I really like this gun and believe it will be my main cc. I know I should run a few hundred rounds through it before I put it in service. I am convinced it will be a good self-defense gun.
wlg
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:52 PM
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Outstanding detective work! :-)
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badquaker View Post
We have a winner.....

Either a sharp edge (throat to chamber) peeled that back, or the ammo was the culprit.

Maybe the throat wasn't properly dressed at the factory. If so, it would explain all your issues. It's a 5 minute repair, or a couple hundred rounds of practice.
This is my thought as well.

Please let us know what the factory says.
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Old 09-09-2013, 04:04 PM
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Got my M&P Shield back today. They replaced the extractor, polished the feed ramp, and other adjustments (whatever that means?) I put 50 rounds through it no problems yet. Hope all is well with it now? Keeping my fingers crossed.
wlg
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Old 09-09-2013, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
This is my thought as well.

Please let us know what the factory says.
Got my M&P Shield back today. They replaced the extractor, polished the feed ramp, and other adjustments (whatever that means?) I put 50 rounds through it no problems yet. Hope all is well with it now? Keeping my fingers crossed.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:21 PM
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I have had 1 (one) problem with my 9c. It occurred when I used some old hand loads that my dad had. The round failed to completely enter the chamber and the slide was wedged out of battery. It took a bit of force to rack the mag and kick out the offending shell, but when all was said and done, it was a warped casing that caused the problem.I have not had a single issue with ANY factory loaded rounds.
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:10 PM
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Got my M&P Shield back today. They replaced the extractor, polished the feed ramp, and other adjustments (whatever that means?) I put 50 rounds through it no problems yet. Hope all is well with it now? Keeping my fingers crossed.
Put about 300 more through it , and get back to us.

I just sent mine in for failure to extract/eject , with phase 3 malfunction.
I can't wait to see what they come up with.
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Old 09-10-2013, 09:52 PM
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Zero issues here.
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Old 09-12-2013, 02:22 PM
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Got my M&P Shield back today(09/9/2013). They replaced the extractor, polished the feed ramp, and other adjustments (whatever that means?) I put 50 rounds through it no problems yet. Hope all is well with it now? Keeping my fingers crossed.

New Range Report

09/9/2013 - 1st. Range trip. 50 rounds box of Target range ammo – No problem – Total 50 rounds.
09/10/2013 - 2nd. Range trip. 50 rounds Remington and 50 rounds of Federal range ammo – One Failed to extract, the fired casing failed to extract and the next round tried to load also one Fail to eject. - Total 100 rounds.
09/12/2013 - 3rd. Range trip. 50 rounds Winchester white box range ammo. And 50 rounds of Federal range ammo, one Fail to eject. - Total 100 rounds.
What do you think?

Total rounds through gun as of 09/12/2013 - 250 rounds.

1. Failed to extract and the next round tried to load.
2. Fail to eject.
3. Fail to eject.
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Old 09-12-2013, 02:56 PM
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You didn't say Which brand got the FTE on trips 2 and 3? Remington? WWB?, or Federal? Federal is a common variable in all 3 trips (not used in trip one, where you had 0 problems, but used in trips 2 and 3)
... but USUALLY, Federal is considered a very reliable brand.

Could be ammo related, could be something else.
Take variables out of the equation to be sure.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:32 PM
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Remington -Failed to extract and the next round tried to load.
Federal - Fail to eject.
Winchester white box - Fail to eject.

I am very happy for all the folks out there that got a good one (Shield). Could be I am wrong but the Shield should be able to shoot any of the three reliably. I figure someone will say it needs another 500 rounds to break it in? Shooting $200 dollars’ worth of ammo through a gun to see if is reliable is silly. At this point I am getting a little frustrated to say the least with S&W. I called my gun dealer, he said two other guys brought there Shields back with the same issues this week. He is sending a letter to S&W. I am beginning to think S&W has a real problem on their hands? I am going to be persistent and call them and keep sending it back till they get it right.
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlg View Post
Remington -Failed to extract and the next round tried to load.
Federal - Fail to eject.
Winchester white box - Fail to eject.

I am very happy for all the folks out there that got a good one (Shield). Could be I am wrong but the Shield should be able to shoot any of the three reliably. I figure someone will say it needs another 500 rounds to break it in? Shooting $200 dollars’ worth of ammo through a gun to see if is reliable is silly. At this point I am getting a little frustrated to say the least with S&W. I called my gun dealer, he said two other guys brought there Shields back with the same issues this week. He is sending a letter to S&W. I am beginning to think S&W has a real problem on their hands? I am going to be persistent and call them and keep sending it back till they get it right.
Send it back, and request a new gun. I think that's the only thing that may fix it. S&W obviously, doesn't know what the problem is..
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlg View Post
Remington -Failed to extract and the next round tried to load.
Federal - Fail to eject.
Winchester white box - Fail to eject.

I am very happy for all the folks out there that got a good one (Shield). Could be I am wrong but the Shield should be able to shoot any of the three reliably. I figure someone will say it needs another 500 rounds to break it in? Shooting $200 dollars’ worth of ammo through a gun to see if is reliable is silly. At this point I am getting a little frustrated to say the least with S&W. I called my gun dealer, he said two other guys brought there Shields back with the same issues this week. He is sending a letter to S&W. I am beginning to think S&W has a real problem on their hands? I am going to be persistent and call them and keep sending it back till they get it right.
I would be frustrated too. The gun should shoot all those brands of ammo right out of the box. You are right to keep sending it back until it gets fixed.

I had a problem with a SW1911. I sent it in twice and still had the problem. Rather than send it in a third time, S&W offered me a full refund which I gladly accepted. I have nothing against S&W. They were great and I really liked the gun. I would still consider another. I think I just got a lemon.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:15 PM
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A note on ammunition:
Many people say that when a gun malfunctions it could be the ammo. That may be true, but it shouldn't be. For example, my Sig Sauer 1911-22 has this note in the manual:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sig Sauer
The Sig Sauer 1911-22 pistol is designed to function with 22 Long Rifle High Velocity ammunition only.
So, if I don't use High Velocity ammunition in my 1911-22, I can't complain because I didn't follow the manufacturer's instructions.

The M&P has no such statement in its manual. Therefore, it should work with any brand as long as it is the correct caliber.
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Old 09-13-2013, 11:16 AM
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If I took my EDC to the range, and it didn't shoot and function correctly every time, I'd be finding a new EDC. No one can afford to experience a stoppage in a gunfight...or other life threatening situation requiring lethal force.

Get a new gun...or get another brand that shoots like it should.

Guns shouldn't be made to such exacting tolerances that they have to be broken in...aka..****bbing the parts together until they develop the proper clearances, or wear off sharp edges. This should all be taken care of at the factory.

Look at the AK47...loose and reliable and made to purpose. It's never going to win any accuracy contests, but it sure does what it's supposed to do...squirt out rounds. Selfdefense guns should be made to similar specs. Of course, then the range junkies would rag them to death about groupings at 25 yards when most gun fights take place at less than three yards. There would be endless discussions on factory tolerances being too loose...and after market products being made to better specs...and what was the OEM thinking...and on and on.

One question. What did the cartridge cases look like after ejection. I had an AMT backup that had a lot of extraction issues. After looking at the cases, I discovered that they were scuffed up. It turned out that the chamber hadn't been properly finished. It went back to the factory where they polished the chamber, and that fixed that. BTW, if you get a chance to buy an AMT back up, don't.

Anyways, that's my two cents. I hope you get a dependable gun. Or, find a dependable ammo.

Thanks for posting.















But, that's just me.
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Old 09-13-2013, 11:29 AM
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When, I sent mine back for these same problems, I asked them to replace the Slide, barrel and ejector. I do really believe it is a combination, of the breechface cut and the barrel chamber tolerances.
The funny thing is, I know it will come back saying they replaced the extractor. If I go out to the range and it is not fixed,I will be extremely pissed! Let S&W put 200 or more rounds through it before they send it back. Why should I have to go to the range and spend $75 to "test" their work??
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Old 09-30-2013, 02:01 PM
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Well, I sent it back to them again. I am going to keep on sending it back until they give me a new gun or refund or get this one working right!!
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:39 PM
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I had the same issues as you with various types of ammo. I just got it back from S&W for the second time. The first time they replaced the barrel and recoil rod. This time they replaced the extractor and the extractor spring. I haven't had a chance to get to the range yet. Hopefully it works this time.
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatSnipah View Post
At this point, I'm not sure what to believe/think.

.
Neither me. I have one in 9mm, it hasn't choked in just over 1000 rounds, but there's too many experienced people with issues to turn a blind eye, or blame it on the ammunition, limp-wristing, etc.

Like the guy in this thread:

REVIEW: SW M&P Shield 9mm, w/ Range Results


Like you, I REALLY want to like the gun, and carry it. But I'm still on the fence. I will work with it some more, but unless this FTE issue is isolated, I'll always wonder...

.
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:13 AM
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The Shield is a good gun and reliable. At least mine is so far... However, my observation with all these issues is with the huge demand over the past year, S&W clearly had to ramp up production and it's possible that QC dropped a bit in the process. Glock has the same issues. If you get the gun back a 2nd time and it's not fixed, then (if it were me), I would be requesting a new gun.
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