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Old 03-18-2017, 10:50 AM
clarkg1124 clarkg1124 is offline
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Default A few words about the mag issues

Hello all,
I have been reading a few threads about mag issues with the Shield.FYI,My pistol is a 9mm,bought new in June,2016.
The only real issue I have had so far is that when fully loaded,with the slide in battery,the 7-rounder will not seat.With 6 in the mag it is fine.I suspected the spring might have broken(as has happened with some of these mags),but that is not the case.As a preventive measure,I have ordered a set of Wolff mag springs,and will change the springs in all my mags when the new ones arrive.
My only real beef about this pistol is how hard the mags are to load to capacity.I dare say the slightly stiffer Wolff springs will exacerbate this problem.Thank goodness for my upLula mag loader!!!
Clark
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Old 03-18-2017, 11:02 AM
OKFC05 OKFC05 is offline
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Your magazines are not broken. When you load a full magazine against a closed slide, you have to compress another 1/2 cartridge against the slide to fully seat. The correct manual of arms is to load with an open slide with a full magazine, for this or any other semi-auto. Try it and you will see how easy and reliable this is.


Many of the complaints I get from students and read on the internet could be cured by taking a good course from a competent instructor.
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Old 03-18-2017, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
Your magazines are not broken. When you load a full magazine against a closed slide, you have to compress another 1/2 cartridge against the slide to fully seat. The correct manual of arms is to load with an open slide with a full magazine, for this or any other semi-auto. Try it and you will see how easy and reliable this is.


Many of the complaints I get from students and read on the internet could be cured by taking a good course from a competent instructor.
Kinda takes away from the +1 capability.
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Old 03-18-2017, 11:25 AM
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Had a Shield 45 for about 8 months now and no problem loading full mags.....but I do load the first round with an open slide, then remove mag and add 1 and re-insert with no problems..so the +1 should not be an issue unless your mag is defective or your ejector is out of position.
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Old 03-18-2017, 11:38 AM
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I own over 15 Shield magazines (and just ordered 6 more). I have never had a single mag related issue using a factory stock magazine. I have not had a single issue using Taylor Freelance extensions on them either. Sometimes I load from a locked open slide and other times I just slap the mag in on a closed slide (administratively reloads) using the proper amount of force for such a maneuver. Guns are mechanical tools made of polymer and steel, they do not need to be babied like an iPhone 7.
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Old 03-18-2017, 11:45 AM
clarkg1124 clarkg1124 is offline
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Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
Your magazines are not broken. When you load a full magazine against a closed slide, you have to compress another 1/2 cartridge against the slide to fully seat. The correct manual of arms is to load with an open slide with a full magazine, for this or any other semi-auto. Try it and you will see how easy and reliable this is.


Many of the complaints I get from students and read on the internet could be cured by taking a good course from a competent instructor.
I understand that my mags are not broken.With a round in the chamber,slide in battery,both 8-rounders seat normally with a full load.For nearly forty years my manual of arms with auto-loaders has been to chamber a round,remove the mag,and add a round to replace the one that was chambered.This instance with my 7 round mag is the first time I have encountered this condition.Of course it would be easier to insert the mag with the slide open,but that has no bearing on the inability to fully insert this mag when the slide is closed.
Clark
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Old 03-18-2017, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrod View Post
Kinda takes away from the +1 capability.

For range practice and most purposes, +1 loading is pointless. I have had students who were so eaten up with +1 loading that they could not get through a live-fire exercise for struggling with their gun.


If you want to load a "Barney bullet" for carry, use the process described above, and make sure the magazine is fully latched in. It is hilarious on the range when the magazine falls free at the first shot, maybe not so funny to the shooter.
Be aware that +1 loading requires more care (and more force) and tends to have more malfunctions.


And in case you are wondering, I load my Shield for carry with a 7-round magazine and load from an open slide: 6+1.
And I only carry the 7 round magazines because in shooting the Shield in IDPA/BUG because I discovered the 8 rounders are a PIA to speed reload the gun. If you want to find out how well your rig works under some (simulated) pressure, try shooting IDPA with it.
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Old 03-18-2017, 12:06 PM
clarkg1124 clarkg1124 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrod View Post
Kinda takes away from the +1 capability.
I agree with you.I have always carried my auto-loaders with one in the chamber and a full magazine.I have never had a malfunction related to this method.The purpose of this thread was to seek input on why it only happens with the 7-round mag.As the mag springs are the same for both 7 and 8-round mags,I think the problem is one of spring compression in the 7-rounder.When the Wolff springs arrive,I may do some experimenting with spring length on the original.
Clark
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Old 03-18-2017, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkg1124 View Post
I agree with you.I have always carried my auto-loaders with one in the chamber and a full magazine.I have never had a malfunction related to this method.The purpose of this thread was to seek input on why it only happens with the 7-round mag.As the mag springs are the same for both 7 and 8-round mags,I think the problem is one of spring compression in the 7-rounder.When the Wolff springs arrive,I may do some experimenting with spring length on the original.
Clark

To directly answer this question, I have tried and demonstrated +1 loading with Shield 7 round magazines with no particular problem other than it takes a great deal of force to fully seat the magazine. Rather than "slapping" it in, I use the heel of my left hand against the bottom of the magazine and press hard until the magazine fully locks in. Possible to do when preparing a gun for carry, but not the sort of thing to do when you're in a hurry under stress.
It is possible, just takes a lot of force.
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Old 03-18-2017, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
...you have to compress another 1/2 cartridge against the slide to fully seat.
Not really 1/2 cartridge. More like 10%, but it does need to be compressed.

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It is possible, just takes a lot of force.
I disagree. Yes, it takes some force, but with the proper technique, the mag goes in every time, even under stress.

I've discussed this enough. I'm going to make a video because words just aren't getting it.
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Old 03-18-2017, 08:18 PM
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OK, here's how to do it:


I didn't spend a lot of time on this video, but it should demonstrate how to get that stubborn mag in there. It works with ANY gun. Even with a closed slide. Even with a full mag.
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Old 03-18-2017, 10:04 PM
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Kinda takes away from the +1 capability.
If it all comes down to one round you brought the wrong gun anyway
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Old 03-18-2017, 10:10 PM
BigDog48 BigDog48 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkg1124 View Post
I understand that my mags are not broken.With a round in the chamber,slide in battery,both 8-rounders seat normally with a full load.For nearly forty years my manual of arms with auto-loaders has been to chamber a round,remove the mag,and add a round to replace the one that was chambered.This instance with my 7 round mag is the first time I have encountered this condition.Of course it would be easier to insert the mag with the slide open,but that has no bearing on the inability to fully insert this mag when the slide is closed.
Clark
Doesn't help you, except that's exactly what I do, and I have no problems like yours.
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Old 03-18-2017, 11:20 PM
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Shove it in with purpose . . .
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:08 AM
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I bought and broke in two 9mm Shields year before last and haven't seen any issues with the 7-round mags loading; then again, I was taught to insert magazines with a purpose, "con huevos," to make sure the mag for any semi auto pistol seated properly. If this is an issue more or less recently noticed with newer production pistols, it may be possible that the notch in a batch of mags were out of spec. All of my Shield mags will lock again against a closed slide, but all my semi autos, regardless of make or configuration require more than light finger pressure to seat. One o the Shields went to my dad who, if there was a problem, would have let me know ( he seems to prefer the 8-rounders however). I would say that if you find yourself having to "pound" the mag, in stock form, to get it to lock in, there's something out of spec so exercise the warranty... Try inserting the mag as Rastoff demonstrated in his video. If it works, your gun/mags are probably working normally. Incidentally, I'm interested in hearing how the Wolff springs work. I've used them in Glocks with complete confidence, and am thinking about replacing my 10-round 45 mahf springs to eliminate the linking that seems to occur sooner or later.

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Old 03-19-2017, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
For range practice and most purposes, +1 loading is pointless. I have had students who were so eaten up with +1 loading that they could not get through a live-fire exercise for struggling with their gun.


If you want to load a "Barney bullet" for carry, use the process described above, and make sure the magazine is fully latched in. It is hilarious on the range when the magazine falls free at the first shot, maybe not so funny to the shooter.
Be aware that +1 loading requires more care (and more force) and tends to have more malfunctions.


And in case you are wondering, I load my Shield for carry with a 7-round magazine and load from an open slide: 6+1.
And I only carry the 7 round magazines because in shooting the Shield in IDPA/BUG because I discovered the 8 rounders are a PIA to speed reload the gun. If you want to find out how well your rig works under some (simulated) pressure, try shooting IDPA with it.
This maybe an issue in some guns but nothing I own has this problem. All mags are loaded to capacity and inserted on a closed slide. I've never heard of any instructor telling students to download by one and I've never seen this issue in any of the courses I've taken.

The guns i own are Glocks, Sigs, HKs and one 1911. Not counting the 1911 all others I have come in both double and single stack mags.

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Old 03-19-2017, 10:34 AM
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This maybe an issue in some guns but nothing I own has this problem. All mags are loaded to capacity and inserted on a closed slide. I've never heard of any instructor telling students to download by one and I've never seen this issue in any of the courses I've taken.

The guns i own are Glocks, Sigs, HKs and one 1911. Not counting the 1911 all others I have come in both double and single stack mags.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

I don't tell students to download as part of the pistol course, but I do deal on a case-by-case basis with the student who wants to load +1 during range drills (wastes too much time), or who says he can't get the magazine in. The smaller the gun and the shorter the magazine, the more likely the new owner will have trouble loading it full. Also, unused "Limited capacity" mags to meet some other state's law can be tough for the last round. OK has no mag laws, but some people buy the PC mags.
You're right, its not a gun failure, it is a training problem with the owner. Remember, I specialize in teaching first-time courses to the newby using the gun he actually wants to carry, not the gun enthusiast taking his third course with his well-used FS M&P, so I would likely never see you in class. In an OK carry class where everyone has to shoot, the experienced shooters are done in seconds, and the new shooter may take 10 minutes with help and coaching to safely get 20 shots on paper.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:44 AM
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Thanks for all the replies.
I do tend to slam the mags into the well during reloads.My 8-rounders insert flawlessly when loaded to capacity.The problem only exists with the 7-rounder.As this mag is only used at the range,it is no great problem.When loaded to capacity you couldn't drive it in with a 4 pound sledge hammer.With only 6 loaded it works fine.
Forgive me if I gave the impression that this was a life-threatening problem.My interest is solely in solving the problem.
Clark
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Old 03-19-2017, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
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The problem only exists with the 7-rounder.As this mag is only used at the range,it is no great problem.When loaded to capacity you couldn't drive it in with a 4 pound sledge hammer.
I don't believe it. I'll bet you a month of lunches I could get it inserted on the first try. See my video in post #11.

Now, this is a genuine bet. It's possible you could have a problem with your mag. I had a problem with one of my springs and S&W sent me a new one. However, that problem was more obvious and I couldn't load even 5 rounds into it. When I disassembled the mag, the spring looked like this:


I don't think your problem is spring related and I stand by what I said. You could take the mag apart just to check the spring. Even so, if the spring is good and you use the proper technique, the mag will go in.

How 'bout this: Send me the mag. If I can't get it inserted with a closed slide, I'll send you a new mag. If I can, I'll send it back. Shoot me a PM and I'll give you my address.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:37 PM
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Problem solved.The Wolff springs came in today.I installed one of them in the 7-rounder and it now seats when fully loaded.I don't know why it wasn't working properly with the oem spring,but since it is fixed I'm ready to move on.
Clark
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