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Old 04-11-2017, 10:55 PM
hbob hbob is offline
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Default Why don't you want a safety on semi auto?

I do not own a semi auto pistol, I have three revolvers including my usual carry, a S&W 642 with Crimson Trace.

None of the revolvers have safeties.

With the S&W Shield I want to buy in 9mm, there are two versions: with and without safety.

Why are safeties good or bad on a semi.
I have to admit I have avoided semi automatics over a fear of
reliability and accidental discharges. Something I never worried about with my revolvers.

Thanks in advnace.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:09 PM
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You don't want a safety. If you have a fear of accidental discharge then don't get a semi auto.

Friends don't let friends buy Taurus.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amcline82 View Post
You don't want a safety. If you have a fear of accidental discharge then don't get a semi auto.

Friends don't let friends buy Taurus.
I think everybody should have a fear of an accidental discharge. I can assume it's why we try keeping our fingers away from the trigger. Consciously, or unconsciously.

Personally, I didn't, and still don't care if the semi auto has a safety or not. Some of mine do, and some don't.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:29 PM
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Most semi autos have a trigger safety, it won't fire unless you deactivate it putting your finger on the trigger, also if you have your gun on a holster that covers the trigger I don't see why to worry. None of my guns have a safety, don't like them. The only gun I pocket carry confident without a holster is the bodyguard.


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Old 04-11-2017, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by amcline82 View Post
You don't want a safety. If you have a fear of accidental discharge then don't get a semi auto.

Friends don't let friends buy Taurus.
Don't say that.....love my Taurus .357 Tracker...traded a GP 100 for it believe it or not...and the Tracker has the most amazing trigger I have every pulled! And I really like the way it looks.

Won't hold it against you...I do believe S&W makes a superior revolver in most cases and likely in terms of longevity.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:34 PM
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I get that most prefer no safety, but what is the actual downside to having a safety? Does it make the firearm less reliable? Is it difficult to switch off?
I know that it takes quite a bit of practice to remember to turn safety off on my rifles. I missed a few ducks here and there by trying to fire with safety on.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:36 PM
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I own Smith and Springfields so I'm not used to having a manual safety. That's my reason.

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Old 04-11-2017, 11:45 PM
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Purely preference with the safety for some. Makes them feel better, I guess. With modern striker-fire pistols ---such as M&P Shield, Glock, XDs, etc.--- you already have a trigger safety and you keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire, anyway. DAO semi-autos are about in the same category of a safety not being totally relevant. On a CC gun, especially, it is just another impairment to getting everything to full ready. 1911s, Hi Powers and the like, which are properly carried with a round in battery and cocked-and-locked, are another story.

Whatever you prefer to use/carry, it is best to become very familiar and comfortable with that firearm and it's safety system. The most important safety, however, is yourself.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Shield9mm View Post
Most semi autos have a trigger safety, it won't fire unless you deactivate it putting your finger on the trigger, also if you have your gun on a holster that covers the trigger I don't see why to worry. None of my guns have a safety, don't like them. The only gun I pocket carry confident without a holster is the bodyguard.
Then, aside from dropping the gun, or catching the hammer, a semi-auto without a safety.............is like walking around with a trigger cocked on a single action revolver..... isn't it? Just the trigger finger activates either one.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:02 AM
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A DAO or DA/SA semi-auto would take care of this issue.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:06 AM
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I think we need to clear up a few things here. Every semi-auto has a safety. In fact, they all have multiple safeties. So what are they? Let's keep it to the M&P.

The M&P has three safety features on every gun. First is the striker block. It blocks movement of the striker unless the trigger is held to the rear. Secondly, it is a drop safety.j If the gun is dropped on the muzzle, the striker block prevents the striker from hitting the primer through inertia. The trigger safety is not really a trigger safety at all; it's a drop safety. It prevents the trigger from moving rearward should the gun be dropped on the rear of the slide.

I think what the OP is asking about is a thumb safety. The thumb safety is almost completely superfluous on an M&P. It only blocks trigger movement. This same feature is covered by having a proper holster.



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...the Tracker has the most amazing trigger I have every pulled!
If a Taurus revolver has the best trigger you've ever pulled, then you haven't pulled a good trigger. Come on over and try the one on my Dan Wesson. You'll change your mind.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by LAA View Post
Then, aside from dropping the gun, or catching the hammer, a semi-auto without a safety.............is like walking around with a trigger cocked on a single action revolver..... isn't it? Just the trigger finger activates either one.

Nope it is not the same, Rastoff explained everything correctly.


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Last edited by Shield9mm; 04-12-2017 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by hbob View Post
Why are safeties good or bad on a semi.
A manual safety is good because it can provide an extra, mechanical layer of protection against the inevitably of human error.

A manual safety is bad because it encourages overconfidence in its proper use by an error-prone human.

Due to the way it operates, I look at the use of a Shield's manual safety a little differently from those on most other guns.

A Shield's safety does not lock the slide, so a Shield can be loaded or unloaded with the manual safety engaged. Except when disassembling the gun or drawing it to shoot immediately, I keep a Shield's manual safety disengaged whenever it is in a holster and engaged whenever it is out of a holster.
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by gc70 View Post
I keep a Shield's manual safety disengaged whenever it is in a holster and engaged whenever it is out of a holster.
So you only shoot it when it's in the holster? That seems weird.
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
I keep a Shield's manual safety disengaged whenever it is in a holster and engaged whenever it is out of a holster.
Must make it hard to shoot.
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:33 AM
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All my semi autos have safety's, I demand them and would not carry one without a safety. At the same time I never completely rely on the safety.
Learned that the hard way.
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
So you only shoot it when it's in the holster? That seems weird.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrod View Post
Must make it hard to shoot.
Actually reading contributes greatly to comprehension.

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Originally Posted by gc70 View Post
Except when disassembling the gun or drawing it to shoot immediately, I keep a Shield's manual safety disengaged whenever it is in a holster and engaged whenever it is out of a holster.

Last edited by gc70; 04-12-2017 at 02:08 AM.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:11 AM
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Before Glock graced the world with its presence, virtually ALL semi auto pistols had safeties, and people got along just fine with them. There wasn't a mountain of dead bodies piled up from those who forgot to disengage them and paid the ultimate price. Matter of fact, I have never heard of ANY instance that they caused an injury or death.

Now on the other hand, there have been tons of cases where the lack of one caused a death or injury. Why? Because people make mistakes. A few years ago, a 3 year old child shot and killed his mother with an M&P Shield. I would bet that she either carried safety off or had the no safety model. She had one of those pursues with a built in holster and turned her back on the child while shopping. Plaxico Burris wouldn't have gone to prison if he had a safety in that Glock. There's a reason for the term "Glock Leg" Anybody who thinks they will NEVER make a mistake with a gun is delusional. Professional shooters have had them. Think YOU can't?

Gun won't fire unless you pull the trigger? Not quite. Gun won't fire unless SOMETHING pulls the trigger. Holster snap. Drawstring on jacket. Anything.

The truth of the matter is that 99.99% of us will never fire a weapon in self defense. Yet we all routinely handle weapons. A safety makes a negligent discharge less likely. There's no debating it. Yeah, yeah. I know all the mall ninja mottos. "A safety will get you killed". "Keep your booger hook off the bang switch". "My safety is between my ears". "This is my safety" (as you hold up your trigger finger. Thank you Eric Bana from Black Hawk Down for that one).

Safeties aren't a bad thing if you take some time to practice disengaging them. I just bought a Shield and yes, I got the safety.

And please don't compare the trigger on a striker fired weapon to his 642. Striker is half the weight.

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Old 04-12-2017, 05:46 AM
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I edited this response about six times, and finally decided to leave it alone, save to say that I defer to the manufacturer on safeties and pistols. If they think they're good with or without, I pick the version without, but I don't let the fact that a pistol is sold solely with or without to influence my decision. If I like the pistol, I buy it and learn to use it as is . . .
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:59 AM
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If I am reading this correctly, your standard practice is to draw your pistol from the holster and engage the safety. I'm just kinda thinking out loud here, but that would make it very difficult to utilize your pistol fully in a self defense situation . . .
He said except when he draws with the intention to shoot. His safety is off while the weapon is securely holstered. It is put back on when it is out of the holster except when he's going to fire it or to field strip it.
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Old 04-12-2017, 06:16 AM
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Then, aside from dropping the gun, or catching the hammer, a semi-auto without a safety.............is like walking around with a trigger cocked on a single action revolver..... isn't it? Just the trigger finger activates either one.
No. You really can't compare a revolver in single action with a striker fired pistol, different mechanical​ design and the trigger weight and length of trigger pull is (in general) higher on the pistol.

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Old 04-12-2017, 06:28 AM
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My reason for buying a shield with a safety is to prevent an accident in the unlikely event that one of the children who visit my home may find it and attempt to "play" with it. If they are unfamiliar with the manual of arms, the safety can provide the extra layer of protection. The same could be applied to a bad guy if he should get his hands on the gun in a tense situation. IMHO, there is no such thing as being too safe .
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:14 AM
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My reason for buying a shield with a safety is to prevent an accident in the unlikely event that one of the children who visit my home may find it and attempt to "play" with it. If they are unfamiliar with the manual of arms, the safety can provide the extra layer of protection. The same could be applied to a bad guy if he should get his hands on the gun in a tense situation. IMHO, there is no such thing as being too safe .
Seriously, if you have children visiting, other than what you might securely carry on your person, all other firearms need to stored in a locked safe. If you don't have a safe, all firearms should be unloaded, rendererd inoperable, separated from any ammo, and stored out of sight and reach. Please never depend on any firearm "safety" device to be child proof.
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:49 AM
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Nope it is not the same, Rastoff explained everything correctly.


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I'm totally aware of that. It's why I mentioned dropping the gun, and the hammer. Still, it only takes a trigger pull, which also stated in this thread, can be other means than the finger.
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:54 AM
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Safeties, unless you're carrying a 1911, are redundant/unnecessary IMHO. I carried a revolver for the first 20 years of my LEO career then the Glock 23 for the last 10. Unless a safety becomes part of your muscle memory it could get you killed.
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:11 AM
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Seriously, if you have children visiting, other than what you might securely carry on your person, all other firearms need to stored in a locked safe. If you don't have a safe, all firearms should be unloaded, rendererd inoperable, separated from any ammo, and stored out of sight and reach. Please never depend on any firearm "safety" device to be child proof.
I knew that this comment would be coming soon after I hit the submit button. Key word in my post is "unlikely". Of course all firearms in this home are secured in safes or under lock and key. However, it is never wise to take anything for granted and particularly so when it comes to guns or children. The point is that having a safety could prevent a discharge by the uninformed person. It is a simple thing to train yourself to instinctively flip it off. I regret that my post may have given the wrong impression.
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:19 AM
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He said except when he draws with the intention to shoot. His safety is off while the weapon is securely holstered. It is put back on when it is out of the holster except when he's going to fire it or to field strip it.
Yeah, you quoted me while I was editing. I was gonna talk about muscle memory and trying to remember whether or not you wanted to fire when you drew, but I changed my mind and left it with the post I ended up with . . .
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:31 AM
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I knew that this comment would be coming soon after I hit the submit button. Key word in my post is "unlikely". Of course all firearms in this home are secured in safes or under lock and key. However, it is never wise to take anything for granted and particularly so when it comes to guns or children. The point is that having a safety could prevent a discharge by the uninformed person. It is a simple thing to train yourself to instinctively flip it off. I regret that my post may have given the wrong impression.
I'll agree. My wife & I have used various types of powder fired weapons for over 45 years. We do live downstairs, with grandchildren upstairs. Her Glock doesn't have the safety. My carry Shield does. It's on, when it's in this house, period! All other guns are in safes within a safe. I do weigh the possibilities of home defense versus an unplanned event involving children, despite the best intentions of keeping everything safe.
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:40 AM
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Don't say that.....love my Taurus .357 Tracker...traded a GP 100 for it believe it or not...and the Tracker has the most amazing trigger I have every pulled! And I really like the way it looks.

Won't hold it against you...I do believe S&W makes a superior revolver in most cases and likely in terms of longevity.
It's just a signature don't get all bent out of shape. And don't thread Jack over my opinion. This is about safeties. Or is it about clip vs magazine who knows any more.

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Old 04-12-2017, 08:41 AM
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I know that it takes quite a bit of practice to remember to turn safety off on my rifles. I missed a few ducks here and there by trying to fire with safety on.

Ok, now imagine that those ducks are 12 inches from you and attempting to kill you.

Correct use of a safety for self defense requires training to the point that turning it off is muscle memory, not brain memory. You will have no time to 'remember' things if you are confronted with the need to actually use a handgun.

Others may differ.
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:44 AM
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Before Glock graced the world with its presence...
Where did Gaston get that idea?


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Old 04-12-2017, 08:48 AM
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Ok, now imagine that those ducks are 12 inches from you and attempting to kill you.
With guns, swords, and knives! And my gun is in my IWB holster. I'm dead, I guess...

Unless they're a bad shot, and I can out run the knives.
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:54 AM
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I get that most prefer no safety, but what is the actual downside to having a safety? Does it make the firearm less reliable? Is it difficult to switch off?
I know that it takes quite a bit of practice to remember to turn safety off on my rifles. I missed a few ducks here and there by trying to fire with safety on.
Not necessarily. Of course any additional moving parts just add to more POSSIBLE failures. If you have 4 parts that's 4 things that can go wrong, if you have 34 parts then.....you get the idea. Having said that safeties have been proven over time to be reliable. Rarely if ever do they break or malfunction (it does and has happened like any other mechanical device). But many modern day guns don't need an external safety to function. It's just a layer of protection. If your finger is on the trigger the safety is off anyway. However, if you carry a gun with a safety but don't use it may cause problems if the safety inadvertently flipped up. Never practicing with it youll point and pull the trigger and nothing will happen.

Think of it this way. When you park your car do you then put blocks around the tires as an extra layer of safety or do you just put it in park and go? Either way is fine but you don't need the blocks. You can use em, you just don't need them.



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Old 04-12-2017, 08:56 AM
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Let me propose a question back to you?

You are confronted with a life or death situation. Lots of emotions envelope you all at once. You are in a heightened state of awareness and you need your weapon. Is the safety on or off?
Do you know for sure? Do you always keep it on and train to draw, disengage the safety and acquire a sight picture or fire if necessary? In a rush of adrenaline can you be 100% sure you can disengage the safety 100% of the time to save your life.

Modern handguns (semi-auto's) most all have internal trigger safety's and will not fire unless you pull the trigger.

The best safety on a handgun is your brain. If holstered the weapon can't fire.

This is by no way to mean that if you are comfortable with a safety by all means get the weapon with one. But you must train 100% for "safety on" weapons manipulation.
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:49 AM
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I prefer no manual safety.

Mainly to retain as much commonality with my revolvers and because of the possibility of failing to get it disengaged in an actual defense scenario. Disengaging a safety during static range time isn't difficult nor is it all that likely to present a problem during a more proactive self-defense situation where you have a certain amount of time and distance. Some will state that they have practiced swiping the safety off thousands of times and that it's ingrained, but all those repetitions were performed in controlled conditions.

However, failing to get it disengaged(not just forgetting) during a reactive a close-quarter defense scenario is a very real possibility and is routinely seen during Force-on-Force training. This is especially true with pocket semi-automatics in ECQ training, but actually also happens fairly regularly with M1911's in all types of FOF. If it happens during training, I have to assume it's even more likely to occur under the stress of an actual defense situation.

I do understand the concerns with safety and I myself opt to install NY trigger spring modules in all my Glocks which brings the pull weight up pretty close to that of my DAO revolvers. My revolvers do not have a manual safety and I do not consider them unsafe because of the trigger pull weight. Same for my NY Glocks. I'm not saying a stock Glock is necessarily or inherently unsafe, just that is my personally preference.

This has already been discussed on other other threads and always becomes contentious. The minds of those whose opinions are firmly entrenched are unlikely to be changed, so I view this thread being more beneficial to newcomers and those on the fence. I see some of the usual respondents, mine included. I just hope this one remains a little more civil than the others.

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Old 04-12-2017, 10:33 AM
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Only one that I have with a Saftey is my Ruger L C 9 it didn't come with an option. It has been a flawless carry with over 5000 threw. I guess my main reason for not wanting a saftey is if it gets put on and you dont want it on. Thats only happened one time on the Lc9 in six or so years.
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:33 AM
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All of my semi-auto pistols, save one pocket pistol, have a safety on them. I do not use them, however, as my pistols are DA/SA and as safe as a revolver. I do want the safety on every pistol I own, just in case it is needed, and for resale purposes.

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Old 04-12-2017, 10:53 AM
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Sure. In a life or death situation, you MAY fumble hat safety. Practicing makes that less likely, but anything could happen.

But do you stop to think before shifting gears in a car? Before stepping on the brake to shift into gear? Or has the repetition just burned it into your muscle memory?

Life is about making choices. The odds of you not only needing a weapon in a life or death scenario, but fumbling the safety, are pretty astronomical. Much better chance of a negligent discharge during routine handling. So make your choice. Just remember not all Nd's end up with the shooter catching the bullet. Sometimes somebody innocent does. For ME, the benefits far outweigh the negatives.

And remember, before 1985, when Glocks hit the scene and other striker fired guns began to follow, millions of people carried semi auto pistols with safeties and never had an issue. I think the internet has made a bigger deal of it than it needs to be.
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:54 AM
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[QUOTE=dben002;139551601]Let me propose a question back to you?

You are confronted with a life or death situation. Lots of emotions envelope you all at once. You are in a heightened state of awareness and you need your weapon. Is the safety on or off?
Do you know for sure? Do you always keep it on and train to draw, disengage the safety and acquire a sight picture or fire if necessary? In a rush of adrenaline can you be 100% sure you can disengage the safety 100% of the time to save your life.

Modern handguns (semi-auto's) most all have internal trigger safety's and will not fire unless you pull the trigger.

QUOTE]

LOL.......How did all those guy survive WWII with the safeties on 1911s and Browning HPs......... guessing we won the war cus the Germans forgot to disengage the safeties on their P-38s and Walthers........



Joking aside.....it's as someone mentioned; for each of us it's a matter of "Personal preference"..... we don't have to all agree: the same as the age old "Blond,Brunette or Redhead" personal preference.


As a "civilian" concealed carrier... while I love my Brownings I don't carry a Cocked and locked semi... I prefer the added "safety" of the long DA trigger pull first shot on a DA/SA auto...... with a decocker....... to the short pull of a striker fired gun.



My most "modern" firearm that I carry was designed/introduced in about 1988.... my oldest is the great great "grandgun" of one introduced in 1899.

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  #40  
Old 04-12-2017, 11:33 AM
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This has all pretty much been covered here Why do you need a safety? and I highly doubt anything new will be said.

In regards to the particular weapon in question(the Shield), I would be pretty confident in asserting that everyone participating in this thread would have at least one failure to get the manual safety disengaged if using it in a properly conducted ECQ force-on-force class.
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:11 PM
kbm6893 kbm6893 is offline
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This has all pretty much been covered here Why do you need a safety? and I highly doubt anything new will be said.

In regards to the particular weapon in question(the Shield), I would be pretty confident in asserting that everyone participating in this thread would have at least one failure to get the manual safety disengaged if using it in a properly conducted ECQ force-on-force class.
Well, somehow I have managed to get through nearly half a century without being attacked by multiple attackers that required deadly force. Sure. Could happen, but odds are against it.

However, I HAVE handled a weapon probably a million times. So I'd prefer a safety to lessen the chance of a brain fart.

Not trying to change your mind. It clearly won't be swayed. But labeling a safety as something that will get you killed is both incorrect and irresponsible. For every one case you can find me that it was a liability, I'll find you 50 where it wasn't.
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:23 PM
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I don't believe in such an animal as "accidental discharge". That phrase is an inexcusable line for poor handling and improper security, i.e.: dropped weapons, "... holster snap. Jacket draw string... " that might snag the trigger. Don't be a klutz, and rig up and dress appropriately. Mechanical failure, maybe a valid reason, but usually occurs on a weapon that has been boogered up by someone, or something like a Win. 1897 shotgun, which is notorious for worn trigger/sear groups, that will surprise you if lugging it around with the hammer back while stalking game.

BOTTOM LINE: If you can't operate your gun ---ANY gun--- in a safe manner, under whatever situation you can think of, you shouldn't have it, and don't deserve to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights. Stupid is just stupid, and there ain't much cure for that!
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kbm6893 View Post
Well, somehow I have managed to get through nearly half a century without being attacked by multiple attackers that required deadly force. Sure. Could happen, but odds are against it.

However, I HAVE handled a weapon probably a million times. So I'd prefer a safety to lessen the chance of a brain fart.

Not trying to change your mind. It clearly won't be swayed. But labeling a safety as something that will get you killed is both incorrect and irresponsible. For every one case you can find me that it was a liability, I'll find you 50 where it wasn't.
Then why even carry a gun at all or carry it in C3 to be doubly safe?

And who said anything about multiple assailants?

You want the manual safety to lessen the chance of an unintentional discharge due to a "brain fart" in a controlled environment, but somehow think you will be flawless in an actual defense scenario.

The safety is a hindrance in extreme close-quarter scenarios. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that. It's been demonstrated time and time again in training. Where are the real world stats you say? The vast majority of gun centric folks who carry would be lucky to even be able access their gun at all in those types of situations.

We've already been through this before. Have you taken a ECQ FOF class to verify you would likely have no issues getting that safety disengaged in that environment?
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  #44  
Old 04-12-2017, 02:58 PM
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[quote=BAM-BAM;139551746]
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Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
Let me propose a question back to you?

You are confronted with a life or death situation. Lots of emotions envelope you all at once. You are in a heightened state of awareness and you need your weapon. Is the safety on or off?
Do you know for sure? Do you always keep it on and train to draw, disengage the safety and acquire a sight picture or fire if necessary? In a rush of adrenaline can you be 100% sure you can disengage the safety 100% of the time to save your life.

Modern handguns (semi-auto's) most all have internal trigger safety's and will not fire unless you pull the trigger.

QUOTE]

LOL.......How did all those guy survive WWII with the safeties on 1911s and Browning HPs......... guessing we won the war cus the Germans forgot to disengage the safeties on their P-38s and Walthers........



Joking aside.....it's as someone mentioned; for each of us it's a matter of "Personal preference"..... we don't have to all agree: the same as the age old "Blond,Brunette or Redhead" personal preference.


As a "civilian" concealed carrier... while I love my Brownings I don't carry a Cocked and locked semi... I prefer the added "safety" of the long DA trigger pull first shot on a DA/SA auto...... with a decocker....... to the short pull of a striker fired gun.



My most "modern" firearm that I carry was designed/introduced in about 1988.... my oldest is the great great "grandgun" of one introduced in 1899.
You obviously did not read the last paragraph of my post.
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:02 PM
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I can give my story and why I never use a pistol with a safety for concealed carry. Luckily mine happened in a defensive pistol class and not in a life or death situation. Just out of college using a Star Model B 9mm in my class. I've shot it hundreds of times. I practiced drawing and shooting quite a bit. I was getting into the whole carry thing so I decided to take a practical self defense shooting class using my Star in the class. It had never failed me.

Class focused on using your off hand for defense. Shooting from retention, entering a room without getting your pistol snatched away from you. Practical type stuff. I was called in front of the class to go over shooting from retention. I was a little nervous being in front of the class. I was focusing on doing everything I was taught in the drill. I wanted to do the drill quickly and efficiently. I pushed away from the target with my off hand getting my hand high towards the face so I wouldn't shoot myself in the hand as I drew my pistol smoothly and efficiently against my body in the retention position barrel pointed center mass of the cardboard target. I angled the pistol away from me so the slide wouldn't catch my clothing. I pulled the trigger and.... noting. I forgot to disengage the safety. I had drawn and shot that pistol from condition 1 a thousand times not just live firing but dry firing as well. All it took was one time being a little nervous trying to be quick with my actions and my brain forgot to flick off the safety. You never know how you will react in a pressure life and death situation where your lizard brain takes over and you are reacting in instinct. A couple of months later I traded in my Star Model B on a Sig P228. I'm glad I learned that lesson the easy and somewhat embarrassing way. I'm equally glad I've never had to find out how I would react in a real life or death situation.

First post for me. I've been browsing the S&W forums for a while and picked up a no safety Shield 45 when the rebates hit
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:06 PM
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I can give my story and why I never use a pistol with a safety for concealed carry. Luckily mine happened in a defensive pistol class and not in a life or death situation. Just out of college using a Star Model B 9mm in my class. I've shot it hundreds of times. I practiced drawing and shooting quite a bit. I was getting into the whole carry thing so I decided to take a practical self defense shooting class using my Star in the class. It had never failed me.

Class focused on using your off hand for defense. Shooting from retention, entering a room without getting your pistol snatched away from you. Practical type stuff. I was called in front of the class to go over shooting from retention. I was a little nervous being in front of the class. I was focusing on doing everything I was taught in the drill. I wanted to do the drill quickly and efficiently. I pushed away from the target with my off hand getting my hand high towards the face so I wouldn't shoot myself in the hand as I drew my pistol smoothly and efficiently against my body in the retention position barrel pointed center mass of the cardboard target. I angled the pistol away from me so the slide wouldn't catch my clothing. I pulled the trigger and.... noting. I forgot to disengage the safety. I had drawn and shot that pistol from condition 1 a thousand times not just live firing but dry firing as well. All it took was one time being a little nervous trying to be quick with my actions and my brain forgot to flick off the safety. You never know how you will react in a pressure life and death situation where your lizard brain takes over and you are reacting in instinct. A couple of months later I traded in my Star Model B on a Sig P228. I'm glad I learned that lesson the easy and somewhat embarrassing way. I'm equally glad I've never had to find out how I would react in a real life or death situation.

First post for me. I've been browsing the S&W forums for a while and picked up a no safety Shield 45 when the rebates hit
Good post, welcome aboard and congrats on the 45..
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  #47  
Old 04-12-2017, 04:14 PM
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[quote=dben002;139552019]
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You obviously did not read the last paragraph of my post.
I did....... this subject is an endless discussion that convinces no one to change their mind........... it's all personal preference..
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  #48  
Old 04-12-2017, 04:51 PM
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I don't believe in such an animal as "accidental discharge". That phrase is an inexcusable line for poor handling and improper security, i.e.: dropped weapons, "... holster snap. Jacket draw string... " that might snag the trigger. Don't be a klutz, and rig up and dress appropriately. Mechanical failure, maybe a valid reason, but usually occurs on a weapon that has been boogered up by someone, or something like a Win. 1897 shotgun, which is notorious for worn trigger/sear groups, that will surprise you if lugging it around with the hammer back while stalking game.

BOTTOM LINE: If you can't operate your gun ---ANY gun--- in a safe manner, under whatever situation you can think of, you shouldn't have it, and don't deserve to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights. Stupid is just stupid, and there ain't much cure for that!
So you're in favor of about 90% of people disarming? And I guess Bill Jordan, legendary shooter, survivor of countless shootings, was too stupid to handle a weapon? Because he had a negligent discharge and killed a fellow Border Patrol agent.

You're not as competent as you think. Neither am I.
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:54 PM
kbm6893 kbm6893 is offline
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Then why even carry a gun at all or carry it in C3 to be doubly safe?

And who said anything about multiple assailants?

You want the manual safety to lessen the chance of an unintentional discharge due to a "brain fart" in a controlled environment, but somehow think you will be flawless in an actual defense scenario.

The safety is a hindrance in extreme close-quarter scenarios. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that. It's been demonstrated time and time again in training. Where are the real world stats you say? The vast majority of gun centric folks who carry would be lucky to even be able access their gun at all in those types of situations.

We've already been through this before. Have you taken a ECQ FOF class to verify you would likely have no issues getting that safety disengaged in that environment?
I accept that I am capable of a brain fart.

I accept that the likliehood of a self defense shooting is less than a routine screw-up. I don't worry about it. Have I taken a ABC7279 course or whatever you're calling it? Nope. Just wore a gun for many years and rolled with many a moron. I put my seat belt on, even though I am pretty certain I won't hit a tree. I used to work with an old timer who felt the seat belt would kill him in the unlikely event that somebody would shoot into the car or the car would be in flames and he couldn't get out. I preferred to go with the more higher possibility of the belt saving my life.

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Old 04-12-2017, 05:13 PM
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You can worry about not disengaging a safety in the one-in-a-million close and immediate self-defense situation,

or ...

You can worry about a safety not being engaged when you commit the one careless error in the million times you handle you gun.

Take your choice.
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