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Old 04-20-2017, 06:06 AM
donhov donhov is offline
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Default Shield 9mm Trigger question

Have a 9mm Shield so-so trigger. About 7.5-8lb and lots of pre travel. A bit gritty also. Thought someone said they sent their pistol in to S&W and was very happy with the returned weapon. Much better. Any one with experiance with S&W repair for this issue. Appreciate any thoughts. I know I can do Apex sear only for much improvement but still looking for the free repair....

Thanks for any info and/or thoughts

Last edited by donhov; 04-20-2017 at 06:08 AM.
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Old 04-20-2017, 07:39 AM
ScaryWoody ScaryWoody is offline
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You could improve the trigger pull yourself by polishing the internals and or reshaping the sear. Here's a link Shield Trigger Job
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Old 04-20-2017, 07:48 AM
Shield9mm Shield9mm is offline
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Default Shield 9mm Trigger question

Yes you can send it back for the pc treatment but i'm no sure if is free of charge I think you have to pay for it.
Also you can try polishing the internals as suggested, dry firing it a as much of you can, and shoot as much as you can. Most people report that the gun gets better after a few hundred rounds.
Mine was like yours but I opted for the apex duty carry kit instead it worked great for me, very happy with it, all the issues went away and trigger pull is under 6lb.


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Old 04-20-2017, 08:17 AM
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Default Shields have good triggers.....

For a DAO pistol the triggers on Shields are very good. I'd let the factory look at it and if they are no help, get some polishing done or go with the Apex.
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:11 PM
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My Shield 9 trigger was pretty good out of the box. No grittiness, and only slightly stiff -- maybe 6.5 to 7 lbs. I shot the heck out of it, and after 1000 rounds, it lightened up to around 5.5 to 6 lbs., and felt very similar to the excellent trigger in my SIG P320. You can do your own polishing to speed up the process, but I'd say don't mess with sending it back, or buying an Apex until you've put 500 to 1000 rounds through it first.
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:13 PM
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I went the Apex route and as happy as a clam with it. On my cheap-a** spring gauge it's right at 4 pounds. As the Apex kit comes with the trigger safety and my Shield has a manual safety plus the holster well covers the trigger, I have no problem with the 4 pound pull. Trigger is smooth, with normal takeup, and a sharp, well-defined bang. Couldn't ask for more.

Of course there's the interwebs warning that if you change (improve?) a carry/self-defense gun from straight stock to anything else, and god forbid you have to actually defend yourself, you'll be crucified by the DA for being a cold-hearted, premeditated murderer with a killer gun designed to inflict supernatural physical harm. You can believe that or not....I choose to have a better gun that I can shoot better. YMMV.
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:34 PM
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I have an opinion that runs counter to conventional forum wisdom on this topic, but I think is worth a hearing:

I like the trigger on a self-defense gun, particularly one I might carry, to be fairly long and fairly heavy. I do NOT want a light, "like a glass rod snapping," trigger such as is desirable on a range gun.

Why?

I want to avoid accidental (aka negligent) discharges as the pistol is holstered; and I want the act of pressing the trigger, when needed, to require a firm, conscious action by me.

The issue with possibly being sued after a shooting revolves around the idea of a "hair-trigger" gun going off too easily -- say, with a small reflexive movement in the trigger finger -- when the operator doesn't want that to happen. The gun writers talk about situations where people let fly when they really didn't mean to, maybe in response to a loud noise or a movement. If the shooting is not "righteous" that could be grounds for a lawsuit -- if you set the conditions by making your trigger too light. Is that a major problem? Probably not most of the time, but sufficiently so for police forces that they generally ask for heavier triggers (e.g., the "NY trigger") and almost always forbid their officers from tinkering with the trigger on their Glocks or M&Ps. Of note, the Apex trigger -- at around 6 lbs -- is generally approved for use in police owned guns, from what I read on the internet! Ha! I read that on the internet! Well, they do call it the "duty trigger."

Bottom line is that your Shield trigger can be improved by dry-firing it a bunch and/or by polishing up the sear. The M&P factory sears today have a much better geometry to them than the first ones did, back in the day when you had to do your own "Burwell job" on the sear or buy one from some new company called "Apex Tactical."

If your M&P is going to be a competition gun, or a range gun, then there are a number of ways to make the trigger lighter -- including Apex's products. I just don't see the Shield as much of a range gun needing that treatment. As a SD gun, a six lbs trigger is ideal (and readily mastered with some practice).
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:45 PM
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Though I have looked at the supplied link for modifying the factory sear I would not really suggest that to someone that does not have complete understanding of the working of a semi auto. If you do purchase the Apex sear only you find it to not at all look like the modified one in the link provided in the post by ScaryWoody. I suggest to keep the original as original or let a qualified gunsmith modify it.

There are areas to improve in the frictional contact points on these guns that will benefit the overall feel of the trigger but most of what is felt in grittiness is not often felt when shooting at the range but more felt when slowly pulling the trigger when dry firing it.

If you feel the grittiness with the slide closed try pulling it back about a 1/4in and see if it goes away, it most likely does. What you are feeling is the contact and engagement of the striker block plunger, a great area to polish and put a soft radius bevel on.
I did install the Apex sear on my 45 Shield and am very happy with the gain, now I am on to the other little things that all add up!
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Old 04-20-2017, 07:35 PM
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The Burwell trigger job shown in the link http://www.burwellguns.com/misc/M&Ptriggerjob.pdf is probably over 10 years old now! (M&Ps came out around 2005, if I remember correctly). After the first couple of years, and the Burwell job, and then Apex getting into the market, S&W started paying attention and has progressively improved the geometry of their factory sears. I think it is to the point where it is counterproductive to do much with it.

Early M&Ps had very little trigger "reset" - which is often desired by competition shooters. Somewhere along the line Apex designed a part that pushed the trigger bar to the side and created a sense of "reset." I don't know if they even sell it anymore, because the M&Ps have had a built in "reset" feeling for quite a few years now, based on factory "in process" improvements in design of the trigger bar geometry.

Smoothness is another issue -- there the Apex trigger would, I think, be pretty neat -- to deal with the long take up and the overtravel. Worth $80? Maybe. Added: my new Shield arrived, and we're on the way to the range tonight. The trigger is just fine the way it is; I don't want it any lighter than stock!
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:03 PM
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S&W Rover said, "I like the trigger on a self-defense gun, particularly one I might carry, to be fairly long and fairly heavy. I do NOT want a light, "like a glass rod snapping," trigger such as is desirable on a range gun."

He got me thinking....what are the trigger weights on my carry guns? So I broke out my cheap-a** spring scale and found: Apex on Shield is just at 4 lbs; the straight stock trigger on my Walther P99cAS is bang on at 5 pounds; and my Sig 320 (Apex straight trigger which does nothing to effect the weight of the trigger pull) is 4.5 pounds.

The SA pull on my wife's Walther PK 380 is just a bit over 4 pounds (absolutely stock) and just for giggles I measured my Walther P4 (which was handy) and it's 4.5 pounds in SA, probably pretty much like it was in 1976 when it was made. (And yes, I need a tow truck to pull the P4 in DA.)

So I guess I'm not feeling too bad about the 4 on my Shield....it seems to be in the ballpark for a couple of unadulterated carry guns. Of course on them what has DA/SA, the DA is pretty much like S&W Rover suggests.
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:34 PM
greeenteeee greeenteeee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcoat3340 View Post
Of course there's the interwebs warning that if you change (improve?) a carry/self-defense gun from straight stock to anything else, and god forbid you have to actually defend yourself, you'll be crucified by the DA for being a cold-hearted, premeditated murderer with a killer gun designed to inflict supernatural physical harm. You can believe that or not....I choose to have a better gun that I can shoot better. YMMV.
This EXACT thing was said to me today at an LGS after discussing wanting to "modify" the trigger on my first Shield.

I've done 500+ rounds, plenty of dry-fire, light polishing of the trigger bar contact points with the sear and USB.

I read somewhere here that S&W would not honor a warranty if internals were polished-- is this true?

I did not take 600gr sand paper to it like others suggested. I did fine emery cloth I had laying around and mag polish. It still leaves me wanting more (Apex sear?) It did improve the feel but not enough as I can't get the holes where I want.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcoat3340 View Post
S&W Rover said, "I like the trigger on a self-defense gun, particularly one I might carry, to be fairly long and fairly heavy. I do NOT want a light, "like a glass rod snapping," trigger such as is desirable on a range gun."

He got me thinking....what are the trigger weights on my carry guns? So I broke out my cheap-a** spring scale and found: Apex on Shield is just at 4 lbs; the straight stock trigger on my Walther P99cAS is bang on at 5 pounds; and my Sig 320 (Apex straight trigger which does nothing to effect the weight of the trigger pull) is 4.5 pounds.

The SA pull on my wife's Walther PK 380 is just a bit over 4 pounds (absolutely stock) and just for giggles I measured my Walther P4 (which was handy) and it's 4.5 pounds in SA, probably pretty much like it was in 1976 when it was made. (And yes, I need a tow truck to pull the P4 in DA.)

So I guess I'm not feeling too bad about the 4 on my Shield....it seems to be in the ballpark for a couple of unadulterated carry guns. Of course on them what has DA/SA, the DA is pretty much like S&W Rover suggests.
I want to get it to 4.5lbs or so. My DA/SA is advertised at 4.4 and I shoot well with it. Maybe I can't do this striker fired thing.
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Old 04-21-2017, 07:46 PM
Mal Cap Mal Cap is offline
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I think sometimes we all confuse the trigger issue of shooting our carry gun as a "target" gun at the range. Carry is carry. My 9 Shield is fine...it'a carry gun. Maybe about 6.5 pull. My close friend upgraded his Glock 45 pull to seven pounds from 5.5, again for "carry" purposes. Trigger jobs are not suggested for carry guns because if you have to self defense the pistol, they make a big deal out of it in court. This is from experienced shooting enthusiast attorneys. Shoot the gun and enjoy it. My old PD service gun trigger pull is 12 pounds DAO.
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Old 04-22-2017, 01:39 AM
Mountain Walker Mountain Walker is offline
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Someone talked about Pre-travel, which nothing more than take up of the first stage of the Shields two stage trigger. The trigger is a bit spongy, but mine breaks at a reasonable seven pounds. The real problem with the stock Shield trigger is the significant backlash after the trigger breaks. This is where the muzzle is most likely to jump a bit, degrading accuracy. After a good deal of use and dry firing with snap caps, the trigger on my Shield has worn in a bit. With a strong two hand hold it is possible to retain the sights on target during firing to achieve good results. For me the stock trigger, worn in, is a satisfactory arrangement for a small size companion that shoots a real pistol cartridge.

By contrast both the Glock and XD pistols have less of this backlash and are therefore are easier to shoot well. However, the Shield as an overall package seems more attractive as a CCW. For those who wish to upgrade the Shield to a better target quality trigger, I see no downside, particularly with the thumb safety.

Last edited by Mountain Walker; 04-22-2017 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:29 AM
donhov donhov is offline
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Default Thanks for the replys so far...and an ammo deal

After reading and pondering about it think I will just run 2 to 300 more rounds thru it prior to making a decision. After that if I still don't like the trigger I'm thinking that the Apex sear replacement might be the first step. Now to find range time for 300 rounds......

As an aside stopped at Wally World last night and found Federal 100 round boxes of 115 grain 9mm for $18.95. Bought 3 just for this purpose...

Again thanks for the replies and opinions

Last edited by donhov; 04-23-2017 at 08:42 AM.
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