Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 05-17-2017, 06:30 PM
gc70 gc70 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 110
Likes: 29
Liked 65 Times in 31 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
Then why wouldn't they do that with the M&Ps when 2.0 came out? Or wait and have a sale on all right before all new 2.0 come out? And is there going to be a 2.0 SDVE? Cause they're on sale too!
Shhhh! Quit being logical.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #102  
Old 05-17-2017, 06:48 PM
Arik Arik is offline
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Outside Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 14,423
Likes: 6,240
Liked 14,134 Times in 6,087 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gc70 View Post
Shhhh! Quit being logical.
Sorry

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #103  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:45 PM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is online now
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,413
Likes: 8,167
Liked 4,235 Times in 2,166 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
I'm not sure a rebate for 3 months on 3 models constitutes a nose dive in prices. What happens on July 1st when the rebate is over? Is it all of a sudden a price hike? It's simply a sale, almost everyone has one every now and then.
A simple sale? No, I think it's a bit more than just that. It's an admission of the fact that plastic guns like the Shield can be manufactured for next to nothing... and the company can still make a nice profit at historically very low prices.

Look for a change in list price shortly after the rebate ends... or a new model being released after the rebate so they can justify holding the list price up at the current level.

Last edited by TTSH; 05-17-2017 at 07:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #104  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:52 PM
Arik Arik is offline
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Outside Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 14,423
Likes: 6,240
Liked 14,134 Times in 6,087 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
A simple sale? No, I think it's a bit more than just that. It's an admission of the fact that plastic guns like the Shield can be manufactured for next to nothing... and the company can still make a nice profit at historically very low prices.

Look for a change in list price shortly after the rebate ends... or a new model being released after the rebate so they can justify holding the list price up at the current level.
It's not an admission of anything. It's simply a sale. You sell more at less profit, but you sell and it actually makes more money. I just saw a sale on Sigs. Does that mean that metal guns aren't all that fnacy and quiet cheap to make?

Sales are low, firearms aren't moving, inventory sits. Rather make a little bit of profit than none at all.

Ammo is going down in price too. Because otherwise it sits at distributors. No one is panicking. No one is buy just to buy

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Last edited by Arik; 05-17-2017 at 08:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #105  
Old 05-17-2017, 08:24 PM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is online now
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,413
Likes: 8,167
Liked 4,235 Times in 2,166 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
It's not an admission of anything. It's simply a sale. You sell more at less profit, but you sell and it actually makes more money. I just saw a sale on Sigs. Does that mean that metal guns aren't all that fancy and quiet cheap to make?
Please don't tell me I just missed a Sig sale. You just spoiled my whole night.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #106  
Old 05-17-2017, 11:03 PM
kaveman kaveman is offline
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 366
Likes: 38
Liked 480 Times in 217 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeahya View Post
......I also love the comments, I can get glocks for 300. Anomalies should stereotype the value from the poor soul who fell on hard times and stumbled into such a wise bargain hunter......
Nah, I never stumble into street corner bargains or anything like that. I make 99% of my purchases on the open market and probably at least 95% of those on GB,......and the vast majority of those GB purchases are Buy Now or Fixed Price sales. I don't often snag a bargain on auction. $300 Glocks are listed there all the time,.....I pass them by at least monthly.

I consider myself something of an expert used gun buyer. I have purchased literally thousands of guns over the years(was an FFL for 15yrs), but have probably not purchased more than a dozen guns NIB,.......until recently. Grabbed four Shields because they're priced right. After June I suspect I'll go back to my regular 100:1 used/new ratio.

I still don't get the logic of railing against a discounted bargain while trumpeting a manufacturer that maintains an inflated MSRP, but then I've owned Glocks for at least 25yrs and am completely unimpressed with their 'perfection'.

And yes, .mil and LE sales can be in the low $200 range,....but they're volume sales that bypass normal dealer/distributor channels and are not subject to FET(which I want to say is 11% because I'm too lazy to look it up). So if you take that into account I'll say that Glock could make a good profit with an MSRP of around $300(like S&W does with the SD series, which is nothing but a low fanfare M&P without the marketing budget).
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 05-17-2017, 11:11 PM
BC38's Avatar
BC38 BC38 is offline
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 4,046
Likes: 126
Liked 3,786 Times in 1,671 Posts
Default

For anyone who doesn't believe in $300 Glocks, I can confirm they do exist on the used market at least. There is a local shop here in town that has half a dozen Gen 2 model 21 Glock police trade ins for $299 each. Only catch is they are missing the magazine. Of course a lot of gun stores have a stack of Glock mags in their bins for about 20 bucks each.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 05-17-2017, 11:12 PM
Muss Muggins's Avatar
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is online now
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southeast Missouri
Posts: 6,905
Likes: 2,356
Liked 8,166 Times in 2,965 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaveman View Post
I still don't get the logic of railing against a discounted bargain while trumpeting a manufacturer that maintains an inflated MSRP, but then I've owned Glocks for at least 25yrs and am completely unimpressed with their 'perfection'.
You ever actually carry one?
__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #109  
Old 05-18-2017, 07:48 AM
Arik Arik is offline
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Outside Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 14,423
Likes: 6,240
Liked 14,134 Times in 6,087 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaveman View Post

I've owned Glocks for at least 25yrs and am completely unimpressed with their 'perfection'.
"Perfection" has ZERO to do with looks or grip angles or accuracy, finish, price. It's "perfection" in simplicity! It's the gun with the least amount of parts. It has 34 parts. Today other guns are close. M&P has 39. But back in the 80s it was a major breakthrough.

What exactly is supposed to be impressive? I know I'm always impressed when a product functions as advertised.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Last edited by Arik; 05-18-2017 at 07:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 05-18-2017, 08:06 AM
shutmal shutmal is offline
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: May 2017
Location: C incinnati, Ohio
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaveman View Post
Nah, I never stumble into street corner bargains or anything like that. I make 99% of my purchases on the open market and probably at least 95% of those on GB,......and the vast majority of those GB purchases are Buy Now or Fixed Price sales. I don't often snag a bargain on auction. $300 Glocks are listed there all the time,.....I pass them by at least monthly.

I consider myself something of an expert used gun buyer. I have purchased literally thousands of guns over the years(was an FFL for 15yrs), but have probably not purchased more than a dozen guns NIB,.......until recently. Grabbed four Shields because they're priced right. After June I suspect I'll go back to my regular 100:1 used/new ratio.

I still don't get the logic of railing against a discounted bargain while trumpeting a manufacturer that maintains an inflated MSRP, but then I've owned Glocks for at least 25yrs and am completely unimpressed with their 'perfection'.

And yes, .mil and LE sales can be in the low $200 range,....but they're volume sales that bypass normal dealer/distributor channels and are not subject to FET(which I want to say is 11% because I'm too lazy to look it up). So if you take that into account I'll say that Glock could make a good profit with an MSRP of around $300(like S&W does with the SD series, which is nothing but a low fanfare M&P without the marketing budget).
The SD series are a real bargain. I won one in a grand opening raffle and was impressed with the quality, but they are not an M&P. They have a totally different trigger that is TERRIBLE! After installing an Apex trigger I love it. Identical in size to a Glock 19, but lighter.
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 05-18-2017, 10:37 AM
mnshutterbug's Avatar
mnshutterbug mnshutterbug is offline
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: SW MN and northern MN
Posts: 75
Likes: 93
Liked 41 Times in 25 Posts
Default

I don't care if I paid $500 for my shield and it's worth only $50 now. If someday it saves a life, that's what is important to me. I bought mine for enjoyment and self defense and couldn't care less what it's worth or how little it cost to manufacture. As long as I can rely on it, the financial aspects aren't important to me.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #112  
Old 05-18-2017, 02:17 PM
Arik Arik is offline
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Outside Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 14,423
Likes: 6,240
Liked 14,134 Times in 6,087 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shutmal View Post
The SD series are a real bargain. I won one in a grand opening raffle and was impressed with the quality, but they are not an M&P. They have a totally different trigger that is TERRIBLE! After installing an Apex trigger I love it. Identical in size to a Glock 19, but lighter.
SD 22.7oz. 1.30 in thick. 7.2 in long. 5.5 hight

G19 21oz. 1.18 in thick. 6.9 in long. 5 hight


Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 05-18-2017, 02:53 PM
BAM-BAM BAM-BAM is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Western Pa.
Posts: 6,778
Likes: 147
Liked 7,367 Times in 3,528 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
SD 22.7oz. 1.30 in thick. 7.2 in long. 5.5 hight

G19 21oz. 1.18 in thick. 6.9 in long. 5 hight


Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
The SD is 16+1......a full size gun IMO.........

so


Glock 17; 7.95 inches long by 5.43 high; 1.18 thick and weights in at 25.06/32oz loaded
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #114  
Old 05-18-2017, 04:08 PM
Dad_Roman Dad_Roman is online now
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 260
Likes: 333
Liked 133 Times in 94 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH
A simple sale? No, I think it's a bit more than just that. It's an admission of the fact that plastic guns like the Shield can be manufactured for next to nothing... and the company can still make a nice profit at historically very low prices.
Now, thats a bit of a stretch since we dont know any cost's......
<Thoughts continued below>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
It's not an admission of anything. It's simply a sale. You sell more at less profit, but you sell and it actually makes more money.
Close (sell more at less and MAKE more can be true if we knew COGS, but we dont. We also dont know CashOnHand (COH). Example: inventory is packed....we already made our profits for this year and its in the bank. <remember, we are on fiscal month #8> Clear out inventory, even at a slight loss in order to create cash flow and protect whats sitting in the bank already. LOTS of complexities )

It actually IS an admission. They admit they have ramped up and dramatically overproduced and their inventory is "out of balance"

It is impossible to create cash flow with manufacturing or inventory....only SALES create cash flow. Whether profitable or not, (debatable at this point) cash MUST keep flowing.

.....hence, a marketing gimmick

Simple terms? "Supply-and-Demand"

Last edited by Dad_Roman; 05-18-2017 at 04:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #115  
Old 05-18-2017, 05:19 PM
Arik Arik is offline
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Outside Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 14,423
Likes: 6,240
Liked 14,134 Times in 6,087 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
The SD is 16+1......a full size gun IMO.........

so


Glock 17; 7.95 inches long by 5.43 high; 1.18 thick and weights in at 25.06/32oz loaded
Ah! Never held one. He said it was identical to 19 so I figured it was.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #116  
Old 05-21-2017, 12:56 PM
rsrocket1 rsrocket1 is offline
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 633
Likes: 14
Liked 233 Times in 143 Posts
Default

You do know that Glock's margin per pistol is about 68%
"In a 1994 patent lawsuit in the U.S., Glock estimated its profit margin per pistol at 68%."

Glock's Secret Path to Profits - Bloomberg

So selling your $500 Glock to police agencies at $200 is still a profit making business. I reads somewhere else that the manufacturing cost per pistol is about $75.

To the OP, you'll never sell your well used $500 Glock for anything close to $500 unless you are in California. If it isn't well used, then you're telling me you did buy the gun with the expectation that it will hold it's value.

Maybe you should have invested in Yugos.
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 05-21-2017, 03:08 PM
wormraper wormraper is offline
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 88
Likes: 1
Liked 35 Times in 24 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsrocket1 View Post
You do know that Glock's margin per pistol is about 68%
"In a 1994 patent lawsuit in the U.S., Glock estimated its profit margin per pistol at 68%."

Glock's Secret Path to Profits - Bloomberg

So selling your $500 Glock to police agencies at $200 is still a profit making business. I reads somewhere else that the manufacturing cost per pistol is about $75.

To the OP, you'll never sell your well used $500 Glock for anything close to $500 unless you are in California. If it isn't well used, then you're telling me you did buy the gun with the expectation that it will hold it's value.

Maybe you should have invested in Yugos.
down here in Tucson used glocks sell for the LOWEST I've ever seen at $400... the average for a gen 4 is $450... I have a friend who runs the gun counter at 3 pawn shops as a manager and he sells g19s and G17s all day long in under a week at that $450 price range for Gen 4s and $425 for gen 3s

the only time anyone comes CLOSE to $300 prices are those backpage scammers offering to ship from florida if you'll send them a money order

I've bought low at $400 on backpage and flipped for close to $500 and they'll go within 24 hours of posting on backpage... and I've only found those $400 glocks (that aren't beat to **** or 20 years old) THREE times in all my years of looking (and I LIVE on backpage... I have a auto refreshing browser tab opened all day)

Last edited by wormraper; 05-21-2017 at 03:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 05-21-2017, 03:59 PM
rsrocket1 rsrocket1 is offline
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 633
Likes: 14
Liked 233 Times in 143 Posts
Default

There's a store here in Sac that sells used agency Glocks for $370-$420 but only 1 mag. Several friends I've spoken to have bought from this store and said if you as the guys behind the counter nicely, you can get one that looks nearly new, not beat up with a bunch of holster wear.

But if I wanted a G17 or G19, I'd just as soon pay $80 more for a brand new one which is pretty easy to find locally also, I just don't have a desire to own one.

Last edited by rsrocket1; 05-21-2017 at 04:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 05-21-2017, 04:17 PM
Laketime's Avatar
Laketime Laketime is online now
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,667
Likes: 1,678
Liked 1,562 Times in 732 Posts
Default

Correct me if I'm wrong....but I thought the fans of plastic have always mentioned their guns as being tools only.Not needing highly crafted steel and wood....not passing them down to family members when they go. You can't have it both ways and expect cookie cutter inexpensive products to hold a value.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #120  
Old 05-21-2017, 10:24 PM
kaveman kaveman is offline
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 366
Likes: 38
Liked 480 Times in 217 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
You ever actually carry one?
Of course not,......why would I? Would you carry a gun you didn't particularly like if you had dozens of equal guns that fit you better? There's nothing magical about Glocks,....they're reliable, utilitarian pistols. But so are FNs and Smiths and their ergos don't suck(for me).
Reply With Quote
  #121  
Old 05-22-2017, 01:10 AM
greeenteeee greeenteeee is offline
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 95
Likes: 21
Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post
down here in Tucson used glocks sell for the LOWEST I've ever seen at $400... the average for a gen 4 is $450... I have a friend who runs the gun counter at 3 pawn shops as a manager and he sells g19s and G17s all day long in under a week at that $450 price range for Gen 4s and $425 for gen 3s

I've bought low at $400 on backpage and flipped for close to $500 and they'll go within 24 hours of posting on backpage... and I've only found those $400 glocks (that aren't beat to **** or 20 years old) THREE times in all my years of looking (and I LIVE on backpage... I have a auto refreshing browser tab opened all day)
Where I'm at, I can attest to that. It's $500 for Glock 19s all day, if lower, it's a scam, if it's legit, it's gone within HOURS. Even for a G43, under $500 would be sold ASAP.

Any Glock fans here? I never looked into the M&Ps until after I got a Shield, picked a Sig two times over the Glock 19 I wanted (even when I was first looking at pistols and knowing very little).

I picked up what's toted as its only rival, the Sig P320 and still look at the G19 as it looks slimmer overall. The ergos never worked for me fresh out of a box though.
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 05-22-2017, 01:13 AM
alwaysoutdoors alwaysoutdoors is offline
Member
Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value Guns lose value  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The South
Posts: 691
Likes: 151
Liked 527 Times in 238 Posts
Default

I paid dearly for a Springfield XDS and Taurus plastic 380 when they first came out. I wasn't worried about the price because it was what I wanted.
The Taurus has taken a dump in price due to Taurus really lowering the new prices, but I found it a new home when the micro 9mm's finally went into production from several manufacturers.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why we lose Coldshooter The Lounge 23 05-17-2017 05:31 AM
Lose that gap bacardigold Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 6 04-25-2017 07:08 PM
How many do you lose??? rwsmith Reloading 34 10-05-2013 01:41 AM
Ya win some, ya lose some... Mod. 27-5 StevieC S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 1 06-01-2012 10:42 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:54 PM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)