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06-20-2017, 09:22 PM
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45 PC shield w/apex sear
I will make it quick as I'm not here often! Installed the apex sear this morning and it's night and day difference. Basicly as close to a 1911 striker fired pistol as you can get. Trigger pull went from high 5 to 3.5lbs with a great reset! The gun stock was awesome and extremely accurate! Now, it's just ridiculous!! Install was 10 min.
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06-20-2017, 09:50 PM
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I did the same thing as you. However, I did also install the Apex trigger for the .45 Shield. With the Apex sear and trigger shoe my PC Shield went from 6.5 lbs to a very consistent 4 lbs. I mean for a slim, compact .45 ACP, I cannot sing the praises of the .45 Shield enough.
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06-20-2017, 10:00 PM
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It's as accurate as my MC Operator! And I just went with the sear. I think keeping the factory spring reduces the pull a tad more. Kudos to smith and apex.
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06-20-2017, 10:36 PM
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The M&P is actually quite different in its striker operation than its competitors. The ergonomics are excellent and when combined with the excellent Apex sear and trigger they are the best striker fired pistols.
You can get better custom pistols, but for 3x the price. You can buy a Dan Wesson Valor commander or a Wilson Combat EDC-9, but not for everyday carry.
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06-20-2017, 11:08 PM
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I have several 1911's. As mentioned, an MC operator, dan wesson Eco and a colt delta elite. This little PC shield would out shoot half of them.
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06-20-2017, 11:21 PM
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I put the apex duty carry on my shield 45 it was nice, but the trigger was too light for my liking specially on a carry gun.
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M&P 9, Shield9.
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06-21-2017, 08:43 AM
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Luckily, I just had to polish the stock sear and striker block on my Shield 45 to get a smooth/crisp break. Did add the apex trigger, which is mostly preference.
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06-21-2017, 08:43 AM
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I can see where you and others would definitely feel that way although I'm In the lackey left liberal leaning looney tune state of NY so I rarely carry except to and from the range!
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06-21-2017, 09:06 AM
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I've got a PC 45 Shield and like just about everyone, I am very impressed with it, both in it's accuracy and overall operation.
It's interesting to see that putting Apex parts into the Performance Center version can improve what is supposed to be S&W's improvement of the standard Shield.
I can't help but wonder why S&W can't incorporate some of these changes into their firearms at the factory. I can see that from a liability standpoint, S&W might not want a trigger that is too light, but I can't understand why they would not do something to improve the gritty trigger feel that even the PC versions have.
From a cost point, I can't see why an Apex sear should cost any more than the PC sear that S&W uses. Even if they don't want to swap sears, then at least use a different striker block similar to the Apex design, which I feel would eliminate a big part of that gritty trigger feel found in most S&Ws.
S&W builds some great handguns and with just a few simple changes could build some even greater handguns right from the factory that would eliminate the need that some feel to modify their guns and at the same time increase sales.
Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like such an obvious thing for S&W to do.
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06-21-2017, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shield9mm
I put the apex duty carry on my shield 45 it was nice, but the trigger was too light for my liking specially on a carry gun.
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I totally agree.....after about 500 rounds downrange my factory shield 45 trigger was as smooth and light as I want it....maybe even lighter than I desire in a carry weapon..see no use or need to alter what is IMHO a great trigger pull and reset after break in.
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06-21-2017, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbuzz
I've got a PC 45 Shield and like just about everyone, I am very impressed with it, both in it's accuracy and overall operation.
It's interesting to see that putting Apex parts into the Performance Center version can improve what is supposed to be S&W's improvement of the standard Shield.
I can't help but wonder why S&W can't incorporate some of these changes into their firearms at the factory. I can see that from a liability standpoint, S&W might not want a trigger that is too light, but I can't understand why they would not do something to improve the gritty trigger feel that even the PC versions have.
From a cost point, I can't see why an Apex sear should cost any more than the PC sear that S&W uses. Even if they don't want to swap sears, then at least use a different striker block similar to the Apex design, which I feel would eliminate a big part of that gritty trigger feel found in most S&Ws.
S&W builds some great handguns and with just a few simple changes could build some even greater handguns right from the factory that would eliminate the need that some feel to modify their guns and at the same time increase sales.
Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like such an obvious thing for S&W to do.
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I had started with the original shield and also polished and tune it up, it was a very decent gun but my PC definitely seemed more accurate! The trigger in my PC was no better then my first shield which is why I went with the apex sear. I agree smith could have gone a little further in the enhanced trigger claim on the PC but no way would they let a 3.5 trigger pull out of there door. Also trigger consistently with the 45 shield varied quite a bit from gun to gun.
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06-21-2017, 09:27 AM
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Maybe there's a 2.0 coming with some of these enhancements?
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06-21-2017, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeppo
Maybe there's a 2.0 coming with some of these enhancements?
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Maybe! But honestly the shield is a great gun as is and the PC even better. My shooting is strictly 7 to 10 yard bullseye shooting so for me I like making all my guns fit my shooting style.
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06-21-2017, 05:07 PM
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The pull of trigger and the feel of the action are of different demands to each of us. It is obvious that each gun is slightly different and at times may be on the extreme ends of heavy/light and or gritty or not.
Your Apex sear dropped you to 3.5lbs, mine did not but what it did do was reduce the break to something I preferred and the polishing and refining of the other 'contact' components most certainly for me got rid of gritty sticky travel on the pull. I shoot mine more like a target pistol, others will shoot theirs differently.................
A smooth pull can give a feel of a much lighter trigger release, sounds like you have hit a sweet spot that works for you and you shoot it accurately too!
Enjoy it, I love mine!
Karl
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06-21-2017, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbuzz
I can't help but wonder why S&W can't incorporate some of these changes into their firearms at the factory. I can see that from a liability standpoint, S&W might not want a trigger that is too light, but I can't understand why they would not do something to improve the gritty trigger feel that even the PC versions have.
From a cost point, I can't see why an Apex sear should cost any more than the PC sear that S&W uses. Even if they don't want to swap sears, then at least use a different striker block similar to the Apex design, which I feel would eliminate a big part of that gritty trigger feel found in most S&Ws.
S&W builds some great handguns and with just a few simple changes could build some even greater handguns right from the factory that would eliminate the need that some feel to modify their guns and at the same time increase sales.
Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like such an obvious thing for S&W to do.
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Amen! I wonder too. Apex did the last bit of engineering to refine the trigger, sear and striker block plunger. Why didn't S&w do it themselves?
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06-21-2017, 05:43 PM
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I'm the last guy to comment on gun internals. But, I wonder whether the difference stems more from manufacturing processes/tolerances than "engineering". Could it be that S&W chooses to produce parts in mass quantities with tolerances that are "good enough" while aftermarket companies push themselves harder?
Keep in mind that a product that's sold far in excess of one million pieces is very sensitive to manufacturing costs. A decision that adds just 10 cents to the cost means more than $100,000 at the bottom line.
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06-21-2017, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sftdyna
I had started with the original shield and also polished and tune it up, it was a very decent gun but my PC definitely seemed more accurate! The trigger in my PC was no better then my first shield which is why I went with the apex sear. I agree smith could have gone a little further in the enhanced trigger claim on the PC but no way would they let a 3.5 trigger pull out of there door. Also trigger consistently with the 45 shield varied quite a bit from gun to gun.
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When I first got my PC 45 Shield, as I was waiting for my FFL dealer to call in my info, I dry fired it. I was very disappointed with the feel of the trigger, almost to the point of thinking that something was wrong with it. But after about 15-20 dry fires, it started feeling better (no kidding). I'm thinking that maybe there was either a burr or some debris from manufacturing that worked it way out.
Since then after lots of dry firing and a few hundred rounds shot, the trigger has improved a little, but has sort of reached a plateau where it hasn't changed. It's not bad, but sort of gritty and not as good as I expected from the Performance Center. I love the gun, but it just doesn't feel as good as my 40 Shield with the Apex Duty/Carry trigger kit. It's not that I expect, or even want a hair trigger Shield, but that gritty trigger feel just makes a great handgun feel cheap and poorly made and I know that S&W can do better.
More than likely the trigger will continue to improve as it wears in , but I still am disappointed in the gritty feel. The PC version is supposed to be tweaked by S&W to perform at a level above the standard version but to me the gritty trigger feels cheap and definitely not what something that the PC turned out. I know I'm probably splitting hairs, but when you can take a PC Shield and improve it with Apex parts, I have to wonder why S&W can't do the same thing.
It's got to boil down to money, it usually does. Evidently the Apex parts are produced to a higher tolerance and hence the better trigger feel and the more consistent improved results. Maybe it's either looser tolerances or less than perfect quality control that explains how two new guns can have different triggers right from the factory.
Regardless, it would be nice if S&W could learn a thing or two from Apex. There's no reason why S&W couldn't produce their handguns with a better trigger. Maybe they could start using Apex parts in the PC versions (that will never happen, but it would be nice). I'm sure that they could produce a M&P with a great trigger and still retain a little higher trigger pull so as not to have liability problems.
Don't get me wrong, S&W builds some great handguns and I love each and every one that I have, but I know they can be better. I realize that the M&P line is made for one thing, self defense and as such a silky smooth trigger isn't a real necessity, but why not make it as good as it can be? If you can take a standard S&W M&P and in a few minutes replace a few of the parts with Apex parts and get a huge improvement in trigger feel, it just tells me that it can be done. Why can't S&W be the one building in this improvement right from the factory?
When you buy a Performance Center version you are already paying a premium price for premium features. Why should a PC version have the same gritty trigger as the normal version when all that's necessary is to use a few different parts? And using that same line of reasoning, why should any M&P have that gritty trigger feel when it's so easy to fix?
Last edited by rbuzz; 06-21-2017 at 05:53 PM.
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06-21-2017, 06:09 PM
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I agree with what you're saying in regards to cost. It makes sense. But does it really cost more to produce an Apex sear than a M&P sear? Or how about an Apex striker block compared to a M&P striker block? If it does, then I understand.
But when you're comparing a Performance Center version you are already paying a premium price and expect a higher level of performance.
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06-21-2017, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NE1955
Cost? Money? SW is trying to turn profit, not make great guns. That's why. What do some of you expect when these shields are so cheap (some of them). You buy them because you are cheap (we are cheap, me too). We do get what we pay for. Why are people surprised anymore?
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I believe they offer great value. I, as probably most here, without too much trouble can afford to buy and carry any subcompact currently available.
Both my 9mm Shield and it's replacement 45 Shield have been very reliable and accurate. The 45 has been 100% reliable going on 600 rnds, has a very good trigger, shoots to where it's aimed and is very comfortable to carry. If it didn't I would look at something else
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08-24-2017, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sftdyna
I will make it quick as I'm not here often! Installed the apex sear this morning and it's night and day difference. Basicly as close to a 1911 striker fired pistol as you can get. Trigger pull went from high 5 to 3.5lbs with a great reset! The gun stock was awesome and extremely accurate! Now, it's just ridiculous!! Install was 10 min.
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Sftdyna, you have a PM. Thanks.
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