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Old 07-26-2017, 02:12 AM
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Default semi auto...is it safe if dropped?

Hi everyone,

Being a newbie on guns I have a question on the safety of my shield 9mm.

For some perspective, when I handle my revolver, I never think twice about setting it down a certain way, being overly gentle, or even think about what if scenarios.

However, I notice with my semi auto I always wonder if set down to hard, will it go off. OR, if dropped will it go off. The logical side of me says I am being a bit paranoid but I think it's because I don't fully understand the mechanism inside the gun and how it works.
With a revolver, you can see the hammer move back, and then it has to go forward to cause the gun to fire (if not cocked in singe action)
But with the striker fired semi auto, in my mind when the gun is loaded and hot with a round in the chamber, I think of something internally holding back the striker just waiting for the release kinda of like a kids rubber band gun where it is stretched back and just waiting for the trigger to be moved.

So, can someone help this newbie out and kinda of paint me a picture of how the internals work so that it is safe when bumped, or dropped.

Thanks.
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Old 07-26-2017, 02:57 AM
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Default Well, anything is possible....

...but it has several design features that keep that from happening including blocks in the mechanism. But there is a special link that prevents a fall from 'pulling' the trigger. Those two half triggers are jointed slightly differently so that inertia from a fall, can't affect both the same way. Only if you pull them both together will it fire.

The Shield also has a 'magazine disconnect' so that you don't have to pull the trigger when taking it apart.

One thing you don't hear about much. If you drop a pistol, don't try to grab it before it hits the floor. The danger of pulling a trigger by accident is greater thanthe chance of a gun going off due to a fall.

The best safety device is YOU. Following those few basic rules of firearm safety goes a long way to preventing 'trouble'.
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
The Shield also has a 'magazine disconnect' so that you don't have to pull the trigger when taking it apart.
I don't own a Shield, nor have I ever fired one, or even looked at the internals. But...unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying...this doesn't sound quite right. To my mind, a "magazine disconnect" is synonymous with "magazine safety". This is a device which renders the gun *safe*, unable to discharge, while the magazine is absent from the pistol. I don't know whether the Shield requires that the trigger be pulled for take-down, but a magazine disconnect has nothing to do with it.

I just did a quick search, and I see that the Shield has a small lever which can be pressed down while the slide is locked back, which eliminates the need to pull the trigger. Also, I see that the Shield does NOT have a magazine safety.

Tim

Last edited by Bullzaye; 07-26-2017 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Fix typo
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Old 07-26-2017, 07:15 AM
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Default semi auto...is it safe if dropped?

No it wont GO OFF. It has an internal drop safety.
As well as the trigger safety.
Above he is referring "sear deactivation lever"
Shield has No Mag disconnect

Yes you CAN pull the trigger but SW provided a way to break it down much safer.

Id suggest the OP bust out and RTFM.

Read
The
Fing
Manual

ALL the answers you seek can be found in it.

If you bought used and no manual down load it.


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Old 07-26-2017, 08:03 AM
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Yes it's safe. Actually safer than some older revolvers.

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Old 07-26-2017, 08:23 AM
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A modern, properly functioning, properly maintained firearm, revolver or semi-automatic, will not fire on its own motion if dropped, so long as it's not acted upon by some outside force. Call that Muggins' First Law of Firearm Dynamics. At least one other poster has warned you to not attempt to catch the firearm on the way down, and that is good advice. Just follow the Big Three rules and you'll be fine. Enjoy your new pistol . . .
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtwice View Post
Hi everyone,

Being a newbie on guns I have a question on the safety of my shield 9mm.

For some perspective, when I handle my revolver, I never think twice about setting it down a certain way, being overly gentle, or even think about what if scenarios.

With a revolver, you can see the hammer move back, and then it has to go forward to cause the gun to fire (if not cocked in singe action)

Thanks.
FYI.

Ditto Arik. Not all revolvers are safe to carry with a round under the hammer and are not drop-safe. In fact a revolver without a transfer bar is more likely than a striker fired semi-auto due to it's exposed hammer.

Last edited by BSA1; 07-26-2017 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 07-26-2017, 10:03 AM
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Like others have already typed most are safe. I too would caution never try and catch a hot firearm wheel or semi if it's falling.Only had that happen twice so far since 1980 a ruger super black hawk and an Lc9 neither hit ground very hard. I also have found that firearm arm owners can be like motorcycle owners on a drop issue. Bolth may not be totally honest.So keep in mind the more clicks you have on the clock the bettet chance you will drop them.
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Old 07-26-2017, 10:13 AM
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I was going to say most people have had this happen at least once or twice. Just never try to catch it. Semi autos are safe if you drop them.

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Like others have already typed most are safe. I too would caution never try and catch a hot firearm wheel or semi if it's falling.Only had that happen twice so far since 1980 a ruger super black hawk and an Lc9
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Old 07-26-2017, 12:09 PM
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Thanks for the good info everyone.

And BTW, for the benefit of Texas40, The "Fing Manual" does not address my question of the gun being dropped or bumped and you are incorrect in regards to mag disconnect. Kalifornia models like mine do have the mag disconnect.

Again, thanks for the information all. I can't visualize how the internals work so I'll hit up google and see if I can find an exploded view but in the meanwhile, it's good to hear from the experienced on not to worry about a bump or a drop. (not that I drop stuff much but you never know)
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Old 07-26-2017, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtwice View Post
Thanks for the good info everyone.

And BTW, for the benefit of Texas40, The "Fing Manual" does not address my question of the gun being dropped or bumped and you are incorrect in regards to mag disconnect. Kalifornia models like mine do have the mag disconnect.

Again, thanks for the information all. I can't visualize how the internals work so I'll hit up google and see if I can find an exploded view but in the meanwhile, it's good to hear from the experienced on not to worry about a bump or a drop. (not that I drop stuff much but you never know)
hdtwice, I found this animation on Youtube. It's not a Shield but still shows the basics of the striker in action.

How A Semi-Automatic Handgun Works - YouTube
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Old 07-26-2017, 12:33 PM
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Well commifornia is different normal shields do not and will fire with the mag removed.
So no mag disconnect.
Sear disconnect is not same.

Hmm I coulda swore the manual covered the safeties on the weapon and there functions.
Got confused with the section on features and their functions.

No mag disconnect


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Old 07-26-2017, 01:54 PM
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I rolled down the window of my car dropped my shield on the ground and it didn't went off. I guess the internal safety worked
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Old 07-26-2017, 06:00 PM
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Cool What the hay is a ****

My Shield came with a manual that is labelled "M&P Shield", I did not get the "Fing" manual in the box with my Shield. I wonder what happened to that manual, left out of the box at the factory, someone at Cabela's took it out to read and forgot to put it back, or? Is the "Fing" such an important and complex part that requires its own manual?
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Old 07-26-2017, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 0849 View Post
My Shield came with a manual that is labelled "M&P Shield", I did not get the "Fing" manual in the box with my Shield. I wonder what happened to that manual, left out of the box at the factory, someone at Cabela's took it out to read and forgot to put it back, or? Is the "Fing" such an important and complex part that requires its own manual?


WOW
No sense o humor I see.


RTFM is a common response when someone ask how does such n such operate.

Why dont you RTFM and find out.

Some folks however need an Fing manual.



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Old 07-26-2017, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
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Is the "Fing" such an important and complex part that requires its own manual?
The "Fing" is the critical component that locks the Gyrating Pin in place.

....and you know how catastrophic that can be if it should fall out

Its plain as day there on page 45 of the manual

Last edited by Dad_Roman; 07-26-2017 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 07-26-2017, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0849 View Post
I did not get the "Fing" manual in the box with my Shield. I wonder what happened to that manual, left out of the box at the factory, someone at Cabela's took it out to read and forgot to put it back, or?
I wouldn't worry about it. Real men don't read it, anyway.
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Old 07-26-2017, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtwice View Post
...is safe when bumped, or dropped
At least in California it is safe if dropped. That is one of the (multiple) requirements of pistols for sale in this state—to be safe from droppage.
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Old 07-26-2017, 06:58 PM
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The real hazards are in quickly holstering and to a lesser extent drawing fast. Generally, kids fresh out of hunter safety classes are more deliberate and thus safer gun handlers than the most frequent gun handlers. Competitors tend to quit focusing their attention on their pistol as they holster after loading. Holstering winds up being far more dangerous than flinging a loaded modern pistol across the room.
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:57 PM
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Believe it will go off and hit you in the family jewels. Be deadly afraid of it.

Point being - DON'T EVER DROP A FIREARM

Being afraid is the first step in being safe
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:02 PM
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DON'T EVER DROP A FIREARM
Uh Huh. Good advice, but what do you do when it happens?
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:17 PM
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Uh Huh. Good advice, but what do you do when it happens?
Pick it up, dust it off, inspect it, reholster, and be on your way.
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Old 07-26-2017, 11:10 PM
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If you're going to reach inside the pistol to flip the lever to release the slide so that you don't have to pull the trigger then you just cleared the pistol because you CAN NOT flip the lever out if there's a round or mag in the pistol.
So if you pull the trigger after clearing it is just as safe.

I guess Glock and other gunmakers got it all wrong.
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Old 07-27-2017, 02:07 AM
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hdtwice, I found this animation on Youtube. It's not a Shield but still shows the basics of the striker in action.

How A Semi-Automatic Handgun Works - YouTube
Thanks for taking the time to share that vid link....very informative.
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:57 AM
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All modern semi auto handguns have multiple drop safeties, the one thing they can't prevent is discharge if you grab your gun midair after you dropped it, if you happen to get your finger into the trigger guard, it can go off. The IPSC community just lost a very experienced shooter due to this. Vancouver man dies after pistol shooting competition accident | Metro Vancouver
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Old 07-27-2017, 06:59 PM
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All modern semi auto handguns have multiple drop safeties, the one thing they can't prevent is discharge if you grab your gun midair after you dropped it, if you happen to get your finger into the trigger guard, it can go off. The IPSC community just lost a very experienced shooter due to this. Vancouver man dies after pistol shooting competition accident | Metro Vancouver
This seems to be a common safety theme in this thread of which I am grateful because I am on a steep learning curve and catching a dropping gun is not something I would have thought of. Thanks to all who brought this up.
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Old 07-27-2017, 07:31 PM
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All modern semi auto handguns have multiple drop safeties, the one thing they can't prevent is discharge if you grab your gun midair after you dropped it, if you happen to get your finger into the trigger guard, it can go off.
Or maybe invest in a lanyard/tether for you gun and let it fall.

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Old 07-27-2017, 08:38 PM
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Default Just to add comment that isn't needed.....

I believe that even modern single-action revolvers, whcih were notorious for the firing pin hitting the primer at inopportune times, have a hammer block to prevent firing on dropping. If it's an old fashioned design, though, careful because a drop can set off a shot.
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:10 PM
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Or maybe invest in a lanyard/tether for you gun and let it fall.

Where Are The Handgun Dum Dum Cords? - YouTube
How about those RCMP uniforms, I remember seeing them in movies, looked like a cord fastened to their sidearm, don't know if they still do.
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:38 PM
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Like a revolver, if you do not have a chambered round in a semi, it is very safe if dropped. If you have a chambered round in a revolver when dropped it is dangerous. If you have a chamberered round in a semi when dropped, the trigger mechanism will prevent firing. So I would,say that a semi is safer if dropped than a revolver.
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:51 PM
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I will never catch a pistol that I dropped in mid air, why you say, because I don't have reflexes like a cat, I probably could catch in on the second or third bounce. I had my service revolver fall out of my holster once during a fight, I kicked it into a nearby sewer and maced the guy. ESU truck 2 Manhattan North was not very happy fishing my Model 10 out. Oh yea it stunk.The revolver didn't go off upon impact, nor the recovery process.
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:32 PM
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I will never catch a pistol that I dropped in mid air, why you say, because I don't have reflexes like a cat, I probably could catch in on the second or third bounce.
You just gave the best advice of the night.
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by richardw View Post
Like a revolver, if you do not have a chambered round in a semi, it is very safe if dropped. If you have a chambered round in a revolver when dropped it is dangerous. If you have a chamberered round in a semi when dropped, the trigger mechanism will prevent firing. So I would,say that a semi is safer if dropped than a revolver.
Sure...the *safer* condition for a revolver is to have an empty chamber under the hammer, and the *safer* condition for a semi-auto is with an empty chamber. But then, the *safest* condition for either is to have them completely unloaded, locked up, and separated from the ammo!

However, if we're talking about keeping a firearm around to potentially be used for self-defense, it makes much more sense to have it immediately ready for use, when practical. As has been said...modern pistols are VERY safe to have around, completely loaded. A modern revolver is every bit as safe as a modern semi-auto, as they both have internal automatic mechanical safeties that reduce the likelihood of an accidental discharge due to being dropped to an extremely low probability.

While it's certainly preferable *not* to drop a firearm...I wouldn't agree that dropping a loaded revolver is more dangerous than any other sort of firearm...assuming again that we're speaking of a "modern" revolver. As has been mentioned, older revolvers, especially older single action revolvers, often lack any sort of transfer bar or hammer-blocking mechanism, and these could definitely be hazardous if dropped. Certainly it's quite advisable to know for sure into which category your gun fits. As has been said...the Shield is quite drop-safe.

Tim

Last edited by Bullzaye; 07-27-2017 at 10:37 PM. Reason: Dang-nabbed typo!
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  #34  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullzaye View Post
Sure...the *safer* condition for a revolver is to have an empty chamber under the hammer, and the *safer* condition for a semi-auto is with an empty chamber. But then, the *safest* condition for either is to have them completely unloaded, locked up, and separated from the ammo!

However, if we're talking about keeping a firearm around to potentially be used for self-defense, it makes much more sense to have it immediately ready for use, when practical. As has been said...modern pistols are VERY safe to have around, completely loaded. A modern revolver is every bit as safe as a modern semi-auto, as they both have internal automatic mechanical safeties that reduce the likelihood of an accidental discharge due to being dropped to an extremely low probability.

While it's certainly preferable *not* to drop a firearm...I wouldn't agree that dropping a loaded revolver is more dangerous than any other sort of firearm...assuming again that we're speaking of a "modern" revolver. As has been mentioned, older revolvers, especially older single action revolvers, often lack any sort of transfer bar or hammer-blocking mechanism, and these could definitely be hazardous if dropped. Certainly it's quite advisable to know for sure into which category your gun fits. As has been said...thr Shield is quite drop-safe.

Tim
Good info, especially for me who last shot a revolver in the 1970s.

I think people who do not have a chambered round in their carry gun have a strong death wish or are simply nuts.
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:41 PM
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And to think Wild Bill Hickock and the like used to twirl their 6 shooters before holstering them. They must not have had any safety training.
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Old 08-01-2017, 09:46 AM
berudd berudd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrowinRocks View Post
If you're going to reach inside the pistol to flip the lever to release the slide so that you don't have to pull the trigger then you just cleared the pistol because you CAN NOT flip the lever out if there's a round or mag in the pistol.
So if you pull the trigger after clearing it is just as safe.

I guess Glock and other gunmakers got it all wrong.
I think what you are saying is that S&W didn't need to bother with the sear lever because its just as safe to clear the chamber and pull the trigger. True enough IF the chamber is cleared first. Unfortunately, there are way to many morons out there that will assume its clear without checking it and then pull the trigger. BANG! If you use the lever in a S&W this won't happen.

FWIW, I've heard others say you can disassemble an M&P by pulling the trigger but I have tried with mine and it does not work. Perhaps they changed something.
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Old 08-01-2017, 01:04 PM
wrangler5 wrangler5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnshutterbug View Post
And to think Wild Bill Hickock and the like used to twirl their 6 shooters before holstering them. They must not have had any safety training.
Hickock was reported to have fired his revolvers every morning and then reloaded them for the day, to insusre that his loads were "fresh." If he followed the common practice of his day and loaded only 5 chambers in his 6 shooter, leaving the hammer down on an empty chamber when the gun was holstered, then his (first generation/no-transfer-bar-safety) revolvers were completely drop safe if he twirled them after loading and before holstering.
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Old 08-01-2017, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrangler5 View Post
Hickock was reported to have fired his revolvers every morning and then reloaded them for the day, to insusre that his loads were "fresh." If he followed the common practice of his day and loaded only 5 chambers in his 6 shooter, leaving the hammer down on an empty chamber when the gun was holstered, then his (first generation/no-transfer-bar-safety) revolvers were completely drop safe if he twirled them after loading and before holstering.
Thanks for the history lesson.
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Old 08-01-2017, 03:00 PM
dougb1946 dougb1946 is offline
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Don't believe all you read about the cowboys with guns. Fast draws were not common. Gun fights could be at close range with 2 guns emptied and the only casualty was the mirror or the windows. Navy Colts like Wild Bill carried are heavy and long barreled. Twirling can remove skin from a finger.
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