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Old 08-02-2017, 11:58 PM
jyork08854 jyork08854 is offline
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Default Travel in NJ and MD

Planning a trip to PA , traveling through MD with a stop in NJ to meet friends for dinner along the way. After carrying for a year, not sure if I should even have my Shield unloaded and locked up while traveling in these states. Unsure as how to legally travel in these "gun unfriendly states."
I do have a non-resident PA permit so I'm comfortable in PA and all other states I will be in. Do I need to leave my Shield in SC for this trip? Not comfortable on a road trip unarmed.
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Old 08-03-2017, 03:08 AM
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Even though federal laws are in the travelers favor for unloaded travel through states, it would seem NJ has some draconian practices when it comes to firearms possession while traveling through their state. I know if you're gun is confiscated, you'll play heck trying to get it back. It's often just simpler to abandon the gun rather than getting a lawyer to get it back. MD is another matter, it's been quite a few years since I was there, so I don't know what their practices are.

If it were me, I'd pick another route or simply fly.
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:00 AM
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I strongly recommend that you do not carry any type of firearm thru Maryland. From what I have seen and heard, they have obtained vehicle registration/license plate data from other states - and they know which plates match up to concealed carry permits. The most recent example I saw involved someone from Florida. If you were a criminal - you'd have all kinds of protections in MD - not so much as a law-abiding citizen ...
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:10 AM
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I regularly drive from SC through the NE states. I leave my carry at home if traveling beyond VA. If I remember right, there is an additional penalty in NJ for hollow point ammo.
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:45 AM
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I regularly drive from SC through the NE states. I leave my carry at home if traveling beyond VA. If I remember right, there is an additional penalty in NJ for hollow point ammo.
I am originally from NJ when I lived there my roommates boyfriend was a cop and was on investigation assignment with the prosecutors office. He told me they can prosecute per bullet with 1-5 years. But that is having it in an illegal manner like loaded in a firearm found on you that you are carrying illegally. They treat each bullet as if it is it's own weapons charge. Supposedly you can own it and keep it on your property but can only use it for hunting and target shooting where legal for use. Now travel to such places you have to be able to prove that you are directly going to and from such events. So in other words don't have hollow point ammunition in NJ. There is some code about owning and traveling with it on the state police website but I wouldn't bother. Traveling with legal ammo and firearms is a chore in itself. Everything must be unloaded and locked up separately with no access from the passenger compartment. If you don't have a trunk ammo and weapons must be individually locked up without easy access. I didn't when I lived there it wasn't worth the risk I had expanding FMJ's, which are probably treated the same way by now. You can barely defend yourself in that state. If you used it in a self defense situation I could almost guarantee that would be used against you and that's after you proven self defense to begin with. I left 7 years ago and will never live there again. Don't even talk about chp's they are non existent, pretty much only retired LEO's file for and receive them. If you have a firearm and ammo I would drive around NJ. And I heard MD is getting just as bad in the recent years. When I travel to visit family there I unfortunately leave everything at home.

A person I know is from SC but a welder in the union and is currently working in MD. He brought his XDs with him and just leaves it loaded in his car. I told him he's a dumbass waiting for trouble...
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:50 AM
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What about this?

Transporting Firearms in Maryland

Can I legally transport firearms interstate? MD State Police

"Yes, under Title 18, Section 926A, of the United States Code, a person who is not prohibited from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment. In the case the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked compartment other than the glove compartment or console." _______________________
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:55 AM
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What about this?

Transporting Firearms in Maryland

Can I legally transport firearms interstate? MD State Police

"Yes, under Title 18, Section 926A, of the United States Code, a person who is not prohibited from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment. In the case the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked compartment other than the glove compartment or console." _______________________
That's pretty much how NJ reads as well. They make it inaccessible for you to use in a defense situation anyway that it mine as well not even be there unless you are absolutely just driving through the states to get somewhere else. And if that's the case unless you were moving I would bring a firearm and buy ammo when you get to where you are staying.
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:56 AM
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And for New Jersey

Transporting firearms through the state

The guide, the state police says, is to assist law enforcement officers in applying New Jersey's firearms laws to persons who are transporting firearms through New Jersey.

New Jersey laws governing firearms permits, purchaser identification cards, registration and licenses do not apply to a person who is transporting the firearm through this State if that person is transporting the firearm in a manner permitted by federal law, 18 U.S.C.A. 926A.
A person who is transporting a firearm though New Jersey in the manner permitted by 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, need not give notice.

This federal law permitting interstate transportation of a firearm applies only if all of the following requirements are met:

The person's possession of the firearm was lawful in the state in which the journey began;
The person's possession of the firearm will be lawful in the state in which the journey will end;
The person is transporting the firearm for lawful purpose
The firearm is unloaded
The firearm is not directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle
The ammunition is not directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle
If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console;
The person is not
1. a convicted felon
2. a fugitive from justice an addict or unlawful user of drugs, or
an illegal alien
3. The person has not
a. been adjudicated to be a mental defective
b. been committed to a mental institution
c. been dishonorably discharged from the armed forces, or
d. renounced his United States Citizenship
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Old 08-03-2017, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by rperillo05 View Post
That's pretty much how NJ reads as well. They make it inaccessible for you to use in a defense situation anyway that it mine as well not even be there unless you are absolutely just driving through the states to get somewhere else. And if that's the case unless you were moving I would bring a firearm and buy ammo when you get to where you are staying.
I live in Ohio and travel 4-6x/year to CT by car. I have Ohio Resident and CT Non-Resident permits.

Depending on my route, I travel through PA and NY to CT or WV though MD, PA, and NY into CT.

On the first route, I usually stop at the PA/NY line, unload my handgun and lock both gun and ammunition in the trunk. Same deal at the WV/MD border. Gun and ammunition generally remain there until I stop in CT where I am, once again, legal.

A "PIA", but better than losing my licenses and privileges but I always feel a bit naked and unprotected during these transitions.

Last edited by MetalMan; 08-03-2017 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:20 AM
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There is no provision for a non-resident to possess a firearm of any kind in New Jersey. Law Enforcement personnel have also run into trouble carrying in NJ as a non-resident. Even being found not guilty of a gun violation can be very expensive and tie consuming. In a word, DON'T carry/transport as a non-resident in New Jersey.
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:27 AM
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Most of this paranoia is unfounded. FOPA does protect you from travelling from one good state to another. I don't understand where all of these fears come from that seem to indicate that both MD and NJ will have a major roadblock just to stop and dismantle your car looking for a spent .22 casing so you can spend life in Rahway prison. Don't throw your empty beer bottles out the window at the cop sitting by the side of the road or decide that that is the time to wind out your new BMW to see how fast it can go. Drive normal, obey the laws, enjoy your vacation. And do yourself a favor - don't drive in the stupid Interstate - the scenery is so much prettier (and the cops fewer) on all those lovely back country highways and byways.
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by GeoJelly View Post
I strongly recommend that you do not carry any type of firearm thru Maryland. From what I have seen and heard, they have obtained vehicle registration/license plate data from other states - and they know which plates match up to concealed carry permits. The most recent example I saw involved someone from Florida. If you were a criminal - you'd have all kinds of protections in MD - not so much as a law-abiding citizen ...
Under provisions of the misnamed Firearms Owners Protection Act such abuses were supposed to end, but the Port Authority goons for New York, New Jersey and Boston still demand airline manifests looking for passengers with declared firearms. That state cops are using CCW data for out of state travelers for revenue enhancement opportunities does not surprise me.

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Old 08-03-2017, 09:36 AM
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Great case study on why we need National CCW. These liberal states prey on the law abiding. Using the law abiding data against you, really? That is low. Meanwhile, the illegals and thugs just drive through, no data on them. It's sickening.
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Old 08-03-2017, 09:52 AM
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Thank you for all the input. You have confirmed my concerns. I usually travel to the Pittsburgh area through WV and my CWP permits are good for the entire route. But on this trip through MD and NJ to Eastern PA misters Smith & Wesson will remain in my safe in SC.
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJelly View Post
I strongly recommend that you do not carry any type of firearm thru Maryland. From what I have seen and heard, they have obtained vehicle registration/license plate data from other states - and they know which plates match up to concealed carry permits. The most recent example I saw involved someone from Florida. If you were a criminal - you'd have all kinds of protections in MD - not so much as a law-abiding citizen ...
I live in NC and have lots of family in MD. MD law is that if you are passing through (and not spending the night) you can transport a handgun in a locked case in the trunk, with ammo (and I assume unloaded mags) in another locked case separate from the handgun. However, I'm with GeoJelly and take no chances, first because I'm spending the night, but second because it would depend on the officer and the locale how much you got hassled and how it wound up. I leave mine home. I suggest you do the same.

Of course every bad guy in MD is carrying illegally.
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:55 AM
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May I add my two cents? I have gleened the following from the US Law Shield seminars that I have gone to, and conducted by Evan Nappen, the pre-eminent gun law attorney in the state, and the lead attorney that you get if you need a US Law Shield attorney in NJ!

1. Never travel in NJ with loaded magazines.
2. Never travel with anything remotely in view that is gun related that could give a cop probable cause for a search.
3. Any firearm charge is a felony, with a mandated minimum of 2.5 years in prison before parole/probation eligibility.
4. Any accessory charge (a mere hollow point bullet) is a felony, with a minimum mandated prison sentence of 1.5 years, before parole/probation eligibility.
5. Traveling through the state is generally not a problem if you don't get stopped.
6. If you enter the state, then exit the state without going to a match, gun shop, etc, you are in a very dangerous gray area. If I am returning from a match or gun shop, I could probably get away with a bathroom stop, but running erands with a properly secured firearm in your car can put you in jeopardy.
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Old 08-03-2017, 11:06 AM
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Don't bring anything to NJ. It's not worth the hassle. If you make any stops you're no longer "driving through". Even NJ residents can't stop anywhere between home and range. No gas stations, no bathroom breaks and definitely no lunch.

Aside from that they even prosecute antique guns. Not long ago a NJ man was arrested for having a 17th century pistol in his glove box. He is a collector and the gun was not loaded. Cops were going to let him go but the ADA wanted to prosecute despite the pistol not being considered a firearm by the ATF. Charges were eventually dropped but not after him being arrested and hiring a lawyer

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Old 08-03-2017, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryWoody View Post
Great case study on why we need National CCW. These liberal states prey on the law abiding. Using the law abiding data against you, really? That is low. Meanwhile, the illegals and thugs just drive through, no data on them. It's sickening.
Sure, so they can make everyone like NJ or similar? You think NJ or NY will want you coming in with double stack mags and hollow points?. They will fight it and will definitely want their say in what's acceptable in their state

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Old 08-03-2017, 11:32 AM
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Everyone has confirmed my concerns over this trip. I can carry all over most of the South and Midwest. Happy I no longer live in the Northeast.
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Old 08-03-2017, 11:43 AM
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Most of this paranoia is unfounded. FOPA does protect you from travelling from one good state to another. I don't understand where all of these fears come from that seem to indicate that both MD and NJ will have a major roadblock just to stop and dismantle your car looking for a spent .22 casing so you can spend life in Rahway prison. Don't throw your empty beer bottles out the window at the cop sitting by the side of the road or decide that that is the time to wind out your new BMW to see how fast it can go. Drive normal, obey the laws, enjoy your vacation. And do yourself a favor - don't drive in the stupid Interstate - the scenery is so much prettier (and the cops fewer) on all those lovely back country highways and byways.
Traveling in NJ means just that. Passing through. NO STOPPING, no overnight, no bathroom, no food. So if you stop to visit friends or take a leak you're now braking the law. Plenty of people have been arrested for it.

New Jersey: Court Upholds Man Arrested For Visible Gun Case In Car

Ex police officer moving from Maine to Taxes.
"A jury acquitted him of the charges for possession of the "assault firearms" and handgun possession but convicted him in absentia of illegal possession of hollow-point bullets, shotguns, rifles and a high-capacity magazine. He was apprehended in Texas and extradited to New Jersey"

Here is what the Association of Rifle and Pistol Clubs of NJ has to say about FOPA

Traveling with Firearms - Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs

"Some courts have held that the travel must be relatively prompt and direct in order for FOPA to apply, without undue delay in the course of travel other than as reasonably necessary.

FOPA's existence doesnotmean that local law enforcement will necessarily disregard local laws prohibiting possession and transportation of firearms. Many local police are not even aware of FOPA's existence (it's a good idea to have a copy of the law with you). In states like New Jersey, nonresidents with firearms are regularly arrested and prosecuted for local law violations. When the matter is finally sorted out in court, FOPA(if properly complied with)will be an absolute defense, but that is little consolation when an otherwise law-abiding citizen is arrested and imprisoned pending a hearing."

You said obey the law and you won't get pulled over? Here's a 72 year old man pulled over because he was driving through a high crime area.

NJ man won't be charged for possessing antique gun - NY Daily News



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Old 08-03-2017, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyork08854 View Post
Planning a trip to PA , traveling through MD with a stop in NJ to meet friends for dinner along the way. After carrying for a year, not sure if I should even have my Shield unloaded and locked up while traveling in these states. Unsure as how to legally travel in these "gun unfriendly states."
I do have a non-resident PA permit so I'm comfortable in PA and all other states I will be in. Do I need to leave my Shield in SC for this trip? Not comfortable on a road trip unarmed.
You need to keep yourself out of NJ and MD. I have most of my family in NJ and NY, and I just don't go there. Your NJ friends can meet you in PA for dinner. Don't leave your gun at home - just avoid undesirable areas.
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Old 08-03-2017, 11:53 AM
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LOL......old joke..............

Take I-79 or if you want to live on the edge..............................

Take I-81 to Winchester Va....... then take 522 to Berkley Springs W Va.......... follow 522 N. towards Hancock Maryland......take a deep breath

cross the Potomac......

......drive as briskly as possible for 1.5miles........ without breaking any traffic laws....... into Pennsylvania. Breathe again!!

Have Dinner in Pa.!!!!!!!!..... by definition NJ is a "undesirable area"!!!!!

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Old 08-03-2017, 12:17 PM
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Every couple of years I drive from Florida to Maine to bear hunt. I have thought about finding a way around the small part of Maryland I pass through. After reading this, I am sure I will in the future. I also drive to Kansas each year to pheasant hunt and I have the same concerns about Illinois. I may pick a different route there too.
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Old 08-03-2017, 12:19 PM
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That is simply unbelievable. How in the world did all of that happen?
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Old 08-03-2017, 12:59 PM
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[QUOTE=jyork08854;139691986]Planning a trip to PA , traveling through MD with a stop in NJ to meet friends for dinner along the way. After carrying for a year, not sure if I should even have my Shield unloaded and locked up while traveling in these states. Unsure as how to legally travel in these "gun unfriendly states."
I do have a non-resident PA permit so I'm comfortable in PA and all other states I will be in. quote)

Very helpful map:

Concealed Carry Permit Reciprocity Maps - USA Carry
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Old 08-03-2017, 01:10 PM
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Yes, I looked at the reciprocity maps. My SC permit is not honored in PA so I got the PA permit on my last trip. Thought about taking I-81 to I-78 but I still have to go through MD. This is a trip I will try to avoid making again until the laws in these states change, which may be never.
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Old 08-03-2017, 03:17 PM
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That is simply unbelievable. How in the world did all of that happen?
Crazy politicians in those states put there by crazy voters (only have to win by one vote)!
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Old 08-03-2017, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Traveling in NJ means just that. Passing through. NO STOPPING, no overnight, no bathroom, no food. So if you stop to visit friends or take a leak you're now braking the law. Plenty of people have been arrested for it.
You CAN stop for gas, bathroom, etc. You may not stay overnight per FOPA

And let's not forget the thousands of hunters and shooters who come to NJ every year to compete and hunt.......NONE go to jail, not one.

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Old 08-03-2017, 05:55 PM
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A bit old, but somewhat related ...

Traveling Man's Gun Arrest Appealed to Supreme Court

"Missed flights only inconvenience most people. A late flight landed Utah gun owner Greg Revell in jail for 10 days after he got stranded in New Jersey with an unloaded firearm he had legally checked with his luggage in Salt Lake City."

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Old 08-03-2017, 06:05 PM
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I found the article I was referring to, and I think this was discussed here on SWF a year or so ago. I live close to MD and go up there frequently (Andrews) because the medical care is so good at the USAF hospital. That said, MD is in another world when it comes to legal firearms ownership. No problem to carry or commit crimes if you have multiple felony convictions, though - they're just after law-abiding gun owners ...

Jackson: Gun owner unarmed, unwelcome in Maryland | tbo.com

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Old 08-03-2017, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Maddog 521 View Post
That is simply unbelievable. How in the world did all of that happen?
Actually, it isn't unbelievable,at all. It's reality. And we've only seen the tip of the iceberg.
Wait and see.
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Old 08-03-2017, 09:50 PM
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I have seen a number of reasonable comments here, but look at the circumstances leading up to the arrests.

A. The seventy year old arrested with the ancient flintlock. As I understand it, he was stopped for a moving violation, and asked for his documents. Most people tend to store their registration and insurance card in the glove box. Guess what was in the glove box with the documents!

B. The Pennsylvania nurse that was a single parent was stopped for a moving violation. When she was pulled over, since the training was ingrained, VOLUNTEERED, that she had a permit and was carrying, and I believe volunteered that she didn't know that her permit was not recognized in NJ.

C. The retired corrections officer arrested when returning from a casino was arrested after announcing to the responding officer for a motor vehicle accident, that he had a secured weapon in his car when they started to transport him to the hospital. The retired CO was of the belief that he was fully protected by LEOSA, what he didn't know is that in NJ, COs are not viewed as "real" law enforcement because they do not have arrest authority in their original position.

D. Look at the visiting active duty marine arrested in North Jersey, because he had an illegal weapon. He was out drinking with a friend at a "club" and he had a firearm in his glove box accessible to his friend, and the firearm was accessed and employed in a bar fight.

Yes, there are many other case studies, and I am sure as Hades NOT defending the state. The common theme from these 4 examples, is ignorance of the law. In all honesty, had the "offender" been aware of the law, and used a modicum of common sense, these arrests would not have occurred. There are many laws on the books which many people are not aware of. For example, if you are possessing a slungshot, you are legal, but possess a slingshot, you have just committed a firearms felony mandating a 2.5 year stay in prison.

New Jersey's legislature is controlled by the Democratic political machine, and has the majority in the legislature due to the urban centers and the never changing complexion of their suburbs. Place that with the fact that the Democrats controlled the legislature in '47 when the state Constitution was updated, and citizens were denied the right of self defense.

Just the facts ...
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by lrrifleman View Post
I have seen a number of reasonable comments here, but look at the circumstances leading up to the arrests.

A. The seventy year old arrested with the ancient flintlock. As I understand it, he was stopped for a moving violation, and asked for his documents. Most people tend to store their registration and insurance card in the glove box. Guess what was in the glove box with the documents!

B. The Pennsylvania nurse that was a single parent was stopped for a moving violation. When she was pulled over, since the training was ingrained, VOLUNTEERED, that she had a permit and was carrying, and I believe volunteered that she didn't know that her permit was not recognized in NJ.

C. The retired corrections officer arrested when returning from a casino was arrested after announcing to the responding officer for a motor vehicle accident, that he had a secured weapon in his car when they started to transport him to the hospital. The retired CO was of the belief that he was fully protected by LEOSA, what he didn't know is that in NJ, COs are not viewed as "real" law enforcement because they do not have arrest authority in their original position.

D. Look at the visiting active duty marine arrested in North Jersey, because he had an illegal weapon. He was out drinking with a friend at a "club" and he had a firearm in his glove box accessible to his friend, and the firearm was accessed and employed in a bar fight.

Yes, there are many other case studies, and I am sure as Hades NOT defending the state. The common theme from these 4 examples, is ignorance of the law. In all honesty, had the "offender" been aware of the law, and used a modicum of common sense, these arrests would not have occurred. There are many laws on the books which many people are not aware of. For example, if you are possessing a slungshot, you are legal, but possess a slingshot, you have just committed a firearms felony mandating a 2.5 year stay in prison.

New Jersey's legislature is controlled by the Democratic political machine, and has the majority in the legislature due to the urban centers and the never changing complexion of their suburbs. Place that with the fact that the Democrats controlled the legislature in '47 when the state Constitution was updated, and citizens were denied the right of self defense.

Just the facts ...
The 70 year old man didn't have a firearm in the eyes of the feds. It's a 300 year old pistol. What he had in his glove box was equivalent to a chunk of metal and wood. No different than putting a hammer in the glove box

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Old 08-03-2017, 10:44 PM
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Why even risk it? It's an argument or discussion you will likely lose! It is just not worth it. Easy for me to say because I don't live anywhere close and have no intention of traveling anywhere in that part of the world or over it!!! I guess if you wish to be a test case, then go for it. But again, I ask, "Why?". If ya gotta go there, leave all firearms and related paraphenalia at home. It's just not worth the risk, IMO.
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Old 08-03-2017, 11:53 PM
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It really comes down to knowledge of the laws. Currently, states can institute laws that are more stringent than the federal government. That being said, we all need to be aware of the laws for not only where we live, but also where we are going and where we must transit. The prime thing that we must be totally aware of, is that ignorance of the law is NOT a legal defense. Currently, federal laws and their definitions don't guide state courts. In this post and respect, the OP is trying to educate themselves with the reality of the law, not the opinions of how the laws are wrong compared to X, Y, or Z.

Keep in mind what may be totally legal in your state may be completely illegal in another, for example:
BB guns: federal law, not a firearm ... NJ a firearm
Blackpowder guns: federal law, not firearms ... NJ a firearm
Colt blackpowder revolving rifle: federal law, not a firearm ... NJ a banned assault weapon
Springfield Armory M1A with a bayonet lug: federal law, legal ... NJ a banned assault weapon
Benelli semi-auto shotgun with AR style pistol grip: federal law, legal ... NJ a banned assault weapon
Remington SpeedMaster: federal law, legal ... NJ a banned assault weapon because it holds more than 15 rounds (22 Shorts)

Until all of the legal jurisdictions get on the same page, there are going to be conflicts. States have the right to make their own laws, and they can be in direct contradiction to federal laws, and federal laws don't mean squat in a state court. I am not saying that this is right, but it is reality.
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Old 08-04-2017, 07:47 AM
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Will not go to any Commie/Fascist states ever.
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Old 08-04-2017, 08:58 AM
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Will not go to any Commie/Fascist states ever.
Well that's great but not everyone has that option and quite frankly it's irrelevant to day to day life!

I live, work and play on the PA border with NJ. My work is only a few miles from NJ and I can see the bridge crossing into NJ from my office window. Otherwise I'm always within 15 - 20 min ride away. When I have parties or want to buy a nice gift I go to NJ liquor stores. Their selection dwarfs anything PA has thanks to our gov controlled liquor stores. Last Thursday one of our equipment at work needed new parts. The closest parts warehouse is in NJ. I can order it and have it delivered by Monday afternoon but that would mean 4 days down time or I can take 20 minutes and drive over and pick it up, leaving only a few hours down time! This doesn't count friends and relatives who live in NJ and NYC

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Old 08-04-2017, 09:09 AM
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Why even risk it? It's an argument or discussion you will likely lose! It is just not worth it. Easy for me to say because I don't live anywhere close and have no intention of traveling anywhere in that part of the world or over it!!! I guess if you wish to be a test case, then go for it. But again, I ask, "Why?". If ya gotta go there, leave all firearms and related paraphenalia at home. It's just not worth the risk, IMO.

^^^^^ THIS, you can stand on the side of the road all day and argue or whip out your rules, it's going to be a bad day either way.
I travel to restrictive states and leave my guns at home.
Amazingly I've made it far enough in life to collect social security.

Edit: You can add NY, CT, and MA to undesirable states. None of em' are your friend.

CT does though, offer a very obtainable non resident carry license, done thru the mail.

Last edited by ladder13; 08-04-2017 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:22 AM
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You are traveling to two highly anti 2A states. Why risk your liberty, possessions, high attorney cost and an arrest record? Just leave you firearms home and practice situational awareness instead.
Regardless of any federal laws that would normally protect you traveling through any state with a legally possessed firearm, these anti 2A LEO's and prosecutors don't care! In these states, you're guilty until YOU prove your innocence, regardless of what any law states.
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:43 AM
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MA is a VERY undesirable state to visit. For residence, it's not as bad, although surely in the bottom quintile. If you already have all the handguns you want, or want only those that make C&R, it's not bad. There are many areas where a carry permit is not much trouble, and usually very few restrictions on where you can carry.

As noted, CT is straightforward and reasonable about what's needed for a non-resident permit.
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Old 08-04-2017, 10:15 AM
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Most of this paranoia is unfounded. FOPA does protect you from travelling from one good state to another. I don't understand where all of these fears come from that seem to indicate that both MD and NJ will have a major roadblock just to stop and dismantle your car looking for a spent .22 casing so you can spend life in Rahway prison.
Just to make it clear FOPA does NOT protect you from being arrested on the street. A Judge MAY allow your defense lawyer to use it during your trial after you have been arrested and charged with firearms violation.

"all of these fears come from" real life cases that other members have posted on this thread.

Ignoring State Laws is extremely foolish.
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Old 08-04-2017, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by jyork08854 View Post
Planning a trip to PA , traveling through MD with a stop in NJ to meet friends for dinner along the way. After carrying for a year, not sure if I should even have my Shield unloaded and locked up while traveling in these states. Unsure as how to legally travel in these "gun unfriendly states."
I do have a non-resident PA permit so I'm comfortable in PA and all other states I will be in. Do I need to leave my Shield in SC for this trip? Not comfortable on a road trip unarmed.
And apparently, do not take a knife in lieu of a firearm for self-defense in New Jersey: Section 2C:39-3 of the New Jersey Criminal Code makes it illegal to carry "any gravity knife, switchblade knife, dagger, dirk, stiletto . . . without any explainable lawful purpose." Furthermore, you are forbidden from possessing any other weapon "not manifestly appropriate for lawful use."
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Old 08-05-2017, 04:19 PM
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The stop in NJ is the problem. FOPA may not protect you since you cannot posses there. End your trip in PA, have your friends meet you there. Happy to recommend Philly places to eat....I'm sure someone will try to make Philly out to me as bad as NJ, but it ain't true.
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Old 08-05-2017, 06:02 PM
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Some pointers from the real world viewpoint of a prosecutor who writes and teaches search and seizure. Most of these apply to all driving and LE contacts, but with more emphasis here.

1) Unless you simply cannot avoid it, stay out of MD and NJ.

2) If, as some here do, you value entering those states enough for other reasons, then make yourself as low profile as possible. How, you ask? Here:
a) Nothing visible in or on your vehicle that associates you with firearms. No decals, firearm type cases, etc. Period. No firearm T shirts, you name it.

b) Don't drive stupidly. Keep your speed just above the speed limit, using cruise control (3-5 MPH, no more than 5). Use your turn signal religiously - you should anyway. Don't tailgate.

c) Do everything you can to avoid stopping in those states. Gas? Ok. Food? Preferably not. Booze? Pay someone to slap you repeatedly. Overnight? You're a dolt. Does your guardian know you escaped from the home?

d) Before entering those states, at some discreet location in a state where you are legal to carry, disarm. Put everything that even arguably indicates carrying, owning, or liking firearms in a locked container within another locked (nondescript, like a suitcase) container in your trunk. No trunk because you have a pickup? Hell to the no. I like 'em, too, but the property security issue is too important to compromise under any circumstance, even outside of these dumb places. Carefully check every place in the passenger compartment and your body that might ever have gun stuff in it; my car would have some that needed to be addressed. The number of idiots who try to board planes with guns, ammo, or knives that they have forgotten is incredible.

e) Make darned sure that everything you might need if stopped (car reg., proof of insurance) is organized, and readily available. If you have anything beside those, your owner's manual, and any maintenance log in your glove compartment, you are probably making unwise choices. It is really frustrating to a cop, and indicative of needing more scrutiny, to have a lot of disorganized crud in there. (Some offenders use that stuff as a distractor.) If the cop is dumb enough to approach on the driver side, it is also unsafe, as it increases the exposure to traffic.

f) If you smoke, make darned sure you put it out as soon as you have signaled the stop (uh, you do at least turn on your 4 ways and pull over ASAP, don't you?). Lit smoking materials are used as a distractor by offenders, for both concealment of obvious odors of intoxication or drugs in the car, and for assaults. Any cop worth a darn will tell you to put it out with a quickness anyway. Failure to do so is likely a crime, such as under our obstructing statute here in WA.*

g) Related to that: don't move around in your car, don't reach for anything, just keep your hands visible on the wheel and sit still until directed to do something like get your DL/reg./insurance. Make darned sure that the manner in which you carry your DL is NEVER consistent with a drawing motion. DO NOT do anything that looks like opening the door, getting out, etc. If your windows don't roll down, un(screw) yourself and get that fixed. Yesterday. I have kicked doors shut on people who started to open them if I am that close; yelled at people who start to get out, backed up hard enough to smoke tires. That is a significant pre-assaultive cue. (I know some were taught that 50 years ago. It was dumb then, and a lot dumber now. Don't do that.)

h) No matter how frustrated you get, refer to the cop or trooper by some form of polite address consistent with your normal speech. Sir, Ma'am, Officer, Deputy, Trooper. I don't care. Using the 12 letter word for "Adherent of Oedipus" may be gratifying and is certainly protected speech, no matter what the weak say, but it is not dumb. Use that later, when you complain.

i) Never volunteer anything you don't need to. NEVER consent to a search. Period. If you consent to a search, I will disown you. You are a fool. If they ask why, you don't want your carefully packed property disturbed, you have a schedule to keep, etc. Make them get a warrant or rely on a clear exception - the exceptions applicable to vehicles still require probable cause. If they go full stupid and you don't think they have PC, remember to SHUT UP. Don't resist. Deal with it in court using a suppression motion.

* The law, in short: A vehicle stop for traffic enforcement (I dislike the term traffic stop; it's sloppy) is still a Terry stop. Probable cause is not the standard; reasonable suspicion is. Almost certainly PC can be satisfied with most traffic violations, but it is not needed. You do not get to pick the stop location. Period.

Anything other than pulling over as quickly as safely possible is both unlawful and consistent with being a violent offender. (If for any reason, you don't think it is a real LE officer, you need to call 911 with all possible alacrity. Anything other than doing so will not be consistent with such a concern. I hate unmarked cars because it facilitates such claims, right or wrong.) Under the SCOTUS caselaw, in any non-consensual contact (which includes this setting), the officer is in charge, and gets to control it. Yes, that means they can tell you to put out the cigarette, keep your hands in sight, stay in the car (or get out), etc. They may phrase it nicely the first time, but it is still an order, and it is a lawful order. Any perceptible delay will likely violate a statute similar to the WA law on obstructing ("A person is guilty of obstructing a law enforcement officer if the person willfully hinders, delays, or obstructs any law enforcement officer in the discharge of his or her official powers or duties"). Understand that the training will or should be "ask, tell, make", and that the progression in these steps will be rapid; a few seconds from the start to arrest.

If you do not like the experience, comply, then complain. You do not get to resist. Period. It will go very badly for you. The cop will prevail in the street, even if it takes 4 of them, which virtually guarantees you will be injured. Understand that cops look at the world through a different lens. They do in fact have experiences and encounter people who are bad in ways that most citizens, and certainly most fundamentally decent people, cannot understand. Look at the recent murder of a cop (Lt. Aaron Allan, Southport Indiana) who responded to a car crash and was just flat our murdered for no reason anyone has yet been able to discern. (Go find the Dinkheller case videos and the recent CNN report on his murder, for example.) I prosecuted a kid from another county a couple times for felony property crimes against a friend of his mother; at 15, he murdered that man, and we saw no indication of that, although the prior crimes obviously looked personal. Age, sex, and lots of other variables don't matter - acts do.

My signature here is a message. I live by it. If you don't know what it means, you are probably among the decent folks who don't have the perceptions and experiences.
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Last edited by Doug M.; 08-06-2017 at 01:34 PM. Reason: typo, to no one's amazement
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Old 08-05-2017, 07:07 PM
mauser9 mauser9 is offline
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Heard N.J. was even worse than Ma. and that is BAD. I understand Ma. became a "May Issue" state even for long guns back around 2014. Surprised Maryland got so bad in restrictions but N.J. sounds like a horror show!
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Old 08-05-2017, 07:51 PM
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Heard N.J. was even worse than Ma. and that is BAD. I understand Ma. became a "May Issue" state even for long guns back around 2014. Surprised Maryland got so bad in restrictions but N.J. sounds like a horror show!
NJ is MAY ISSUE as well but good luck getting one. There are, last I heard, something like several thousand issued carry permits in NJ. None of them are regular citizens

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Old 08-05-2017, 08:37 PM
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NJ is MAY ISSUE as well but good luck getting one. There are, last I heard, something like several thousand issued carry permits in NJ. None of them are regular citizens

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No surprise Arik. Wonder if it pertains to rifle and shotguns too. Hope residents enjoy shooting pellet guns!
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Old 08-06-2017, 12:41 PM
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I really appreciate all of the input. SOunds ever worse than we thought it was. Will take the trip with my guns locked up safely in SC.
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Old 08-06-2017, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by lrrifleman View Post
May I add my two cents? I have gleened the following from the US Law Shield seminars that I have gone to, and conducted by Evan Nappen, the pre-eminent gun law attorney in the state, and the lead attorney that you get if you need a US Law Shield attorney in NJ!

1. Never travel in NJ with loaded magazines.
2. Never travel with anything remotely in view that is gun related that could give a cop probable cause for a search.
3. Any firearm charge is a felony, with a mandated minimum of 2.5 years in prison before parole/probation eligibility.
4. Any accessory charge (a mere hollow point bullet) is a felony, with a minimum mandated prison sentence of 1.5 years, before parole/probation eligibility.
5. Traveling through the state is generally not a problem if you don't get stopped.
6. If you enter the state, then exit the state without going to a match, gun shop, etc, you are in a very dangerous gray area. If I am returning from a match or gun shop, I could probably get away with a bathroom stop, but running erands with a properly secured firearm in your car can put you in jeopardy.
As far as I am concerned, there are NO good reasons for ANY freedom-loving, sane person to live, work, or visit, or drive through a place like NJ.

NO EXCEPTIONS.
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Old 08-06-2017, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Model520Fan View Post
MA is a VERY undesirable state to visit. For residence, it's not as bad, although surely in the bottom quintile. If you already have all the handguns you want, or want only those that make C&R, it's not bad. There are many areas where a carry permit is not much trouble, and usually very few restrictions on where you can carry.

As noted, CT is straightforward and reasonable about what's needed for a non-resident permit.
Why do YOU live there?
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