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08-13-2017, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&Petey
Just sent The Pres of S&W another e-mail . In doing so I gave a short summary of each event. As it turns out , this is the Fifth time my shield has gone back . And the second time I have requested a new firearm or make me whole. = Return my money as per my receipt . Sale price , tax and state fees and we'll call it done.
We'll see . I not expecting anything . But , if you don't ask - you don't get.
Petey
Cut & paste from letter:
" This pistol failed on the very first time I used it = RSA broke. Replacement was sent to me ,two weeks waiting, and it arrived bent. Second unit sent to me . OK
Then my pistol started having failure to extract issues. (1)I Sent it for repair.
Extractor and barrel replaced = (2)Send it back due to accuracy issues with new barrel.
FTE issues continue . (3)Sent back -- new slide assembly.
(4)Sent back again -- FTE Issues and the pistol locked up rendering it inoperable. RESQUESTED New Fire arm.. Kate pulled some shady stuff = not pleased. read the link.
Upon return of my pistol , I parked it on the shelf for seven months ---don't want to deal with it.
Last Wednesday I decided ok , lets see if S&W fixed it --- Fired 1 mag = ok second mag = 5 shots and FTE again. (5) Sent back again."
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This is unbelievable.
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08-13-2017, 09:57 PM
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Where did you buy it?
Could the dealer possibly speak in your behalf? maybe they would have a little more clout being a stocking dealer with an extremely unhappy customer.....
I'm just amazed that the so-called tech can't seem to re-create the problem and fix the damn thing or just send you a new gun. That's how you keep customers for LIFE !
Seems more and more these days that customer service is going by the way side. Doesn't matter how good you think your product is, if you can't or won't service your customers it says a lot about you as a business.
Last edited by xdmshooter59; 08-13-2017 at 10:00 PM.
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08-13-2017, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&Petey
You'd think.
Charter Arms makes a .40 Pitbull = I would love to have one. Can't get one in California.
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True, but the 44 Special Bulldog is now available. Just handled one in a LGS this morning.
Looked really nice.
Charter seems to have gotten it's act together.
I'm tempted.......
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08-13-2017, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal44
True, but the 44 Special Bulldog is now available. Just handled one in a LGS this morning.
Looked really nice.
Charter seems to have gotten it's act together.
I'm tempted.......
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Nice looking... But I've gone back to my Mdl 60 Pro series for now. Summer dress doesn't allow for large frames.
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08-13-2017, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xdmshooter59
Where did you buy it?
Could the dealer possibly speak in your behalf? maybe they would have a little more clout being a stocking dealer with an extremely unhappy customer.....
I'm just amazed that the so-called tech can't seem to re-create the problem and fix the damn thing or just send you a new gun. That's how you keep customers for LIFE !
Seems more and more these days that customer service is going by the way side. Doesn't matter how good you think your product is, if you can't or won't service your customers it says a lot about you as a business.
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Purchased from a local dealer. I doubt S&W would care to hear from him. Besides , most dealers go through multiple distributors. Those are the people S&W would listen to if "they" had a problem.
Customer service is going the way of the Dodo.
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08-14-2017, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSD2053
This is unbelievable.
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This was my first thought also. S&W claims to have replaced, more than once, the parts that would cause this issue. There are only two logical explanations. One is that the parts were never actually replaced or two, there was a run of out-of-spec parts which are being used in the Ca compliant pistols. I'd guess the latter of the two and barrels would be the most likely cause.
Anybody know if S&W manufacturers all the barrels in house or if they use subs? I've heard they use subs for their slides.
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08-14-2017, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funflyer
This was my first thought also. S&W claims to have replaced, more than once, the parts that would cause this issue. There are only two logical explanations. One is that the parts were never actually replaced or two, there was a run of out-of-spec parts which are being used in the Ca compliant pistols. I'd guess the latter of the two and barrels would be the most likely cause.
Anybody know if S&W manufacturers all the barrels in house or if they use subs? I've heard they use subs for their slides.
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I had the same idea . Or they're recycling old parts from other repairs. ..just the same , they can't or won't fix nor replace my pistol.
The barrel was replaced twice.. I got it back from a so called repair and the accuracy was out the window. Sent it back , they replaced the barrel again. - the accuracy was much improved , but never as accurate as the original barrel was.
I'll bet if I were one of their employees S&W would have jumped to make it right. As it is , They leave a lot a to be desired.
Worst thing = I don't like playing games and I don't like being lied to.
Happy SHootin To All!
Petey
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08-14-2017, 03:54 PM
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Response from S&W Today.
CC
Smith, Mark Phelan, Shaun
Message body
Dear Mr ****,
I apologize that you have had a terrible experience with this firearm. I have asked our Customer Service Team to replace your firearm asap and you will hear shortly from Shaun Phelan, Director of Sales & Marketing Operations, who will discuss how best to go about this.
Again my apologies.
Sincerely,
James Debney
President and CEO.
Well, I'm happy to hear from The S&W Pres so quickly. I promptly responded and thanked him.
Now I'll wait to be contacted by the Director of sales and see how it goes.
I'll keep you all Posted.
Happy Shootin To All!
Petey
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08-14-2017, 04:02 PM
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If the new one gives your problems I'll be curious to see what happens when you send it in for repairs.
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08-14-2017, 04:15 PM
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I'm curious how much time has all this taken? I sent my Shield 45 back with miss feed problem and it took over a month to get it back. Still not working correctly.
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08-14-2017, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by striker56
I'm curious how much time has all this taken? I sent my Shield 45 back with miss feed problem and it took over a month to get it back. Still not working correctly.
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Roughly a year.
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08-14-2017, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray1970
If the new one gives your problems I'll be curious to see what happens when you send it in for repairs.
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God Willing no Issues.
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08-14-2017, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel
Sorry you are having these issues.
Sometimes you just get a lemon and need to dump it. There have been many reports of perfect Shields in all calibers from day one and onward. Problem firearms are frustrating and can be expensive running ammo through it making sure it's reliable and shipping it back and forth to the manufacture. Not often, but over the decades, I got a lemon, but cut my loses and moved on.
Hopefully it all works out for you.
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Just like an automobile.
For thousands and tens of thousands of owners, they'll rave about a specific make/model of an automobile, but inevitably there will always be a handful of owners who will encounter issue after issue...
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08-14-2017, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0849
Just curious, what brand of factory ammo uses brass marked "CBC"?
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The CBC Group consists of four internationally recognized ammunition brand names: CBC, Magtech, MEN, and Sellier & Bellot.
Numerous manufacturing plants and distribution facilities are located in Brazil, Czech Republic, Germany and the United States.
Ranks amongst the largest small arms ammunition producers in the world.
Production in excess of 1 billion rounds per year.
More than 3,000 qualified employees worldwide.
ISO 9001:2008 and AQAP 2120 certified.
Military brands are CBC, MEN and Sellier & Bellot.
Law Enforcement brands are Magtech, MEN and Sellier & Bellot.
Commercial brands are Magtech and Sellier & Bellot.
CBC ammunition company was established in 1926.
Magtech ammunition company was established in 1990.
CBC, Magtech, MEN and S&B ammunition products are sold in more than 90 countries.
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08-14-2017, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commodon
Just like an automobile.
For thousands and tens of thousands of owners, they'll rave about a specific make/model of an automobile, but inevitably there will always be a handful of owners who will encounter issue after issue...
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True , very true.. But no matter what the issue, If it's handled properly it will cease to be one.In most cases.
The CBC in my case was Magtech. Have used it for a number of years . Never any issues.
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08-14-2017, 05:27 PM
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If they send you a new gun and it malfunctions like the old one I'd say there's only to things to look at and that's the ammo and the shooter. lol
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08-14-2017, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrowinRocks
If they send you a new gun and it malfunctions like the old one I'd say there's only to things to look at and that's the ammo and the shooter. lol
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Keep throwin rocks...keep throwin em ...LOL!
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08-14-2017, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&Petey
Keep throwin rocks...keep throwin em ...LOL!
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Stay away from lightning and keep off of airplanes.
Oh and for the love of god go buy a lottery ticket.
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08-14-2017, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSD2053
Stay away from lightning and keep off of airplanes.
Oh and for the love of god go buy a lottery ticket.
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Lol.... Staying off planes is easy... The wife and I are done traveling. Lightning = easy too...stay in when cloudy.
Lottery Ticket = Oh Boy.... That's asking a lot....
I couldn't win a raffle if my ticket were the only one in the bucket.
But , I keep trying.
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08-14-2017, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&Petey
Keep throwin rocks...keep throwin em ...LOL!
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As bad as that Shield is shooting you may want to practice throwinrocks just in case.
lol
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08-14-2017, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrowinRocks
As bad as that Shield is shooting you may want to practice throwinrocks just in case.
lol
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That's too funny.
Probably wouldn't do me any good.
Multiple Shoulders injuries now allow me to throw like a girl.
That's Life.
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08-14-2017, 11:11 PM
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I couldn't resist but I really hope they finally make it right.
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08-15-2017, 06:36 AM
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Wow, I read through this thread. So glad the president offered to replace this for you. The only thing they should have done is offer the Performance Center version but a replacement is good enough.
I'd be tempted to sell it unfired to avoid a possible second lemon! But really, I'm sure you won't be THAT unlucky!
Here's what troubles me; What kind of climate exist's in S&W's customer service that prevented a MUCH earlier replacement??? The history of this warranty service should be looked at by senior management and CORRECT whatever is wrong at the management level. What motivated their indifference to a good paying customer's troubles on a relatively inexpensive gun???
Smith and Wesson; Turn your policies around. Fix it! This is a thread you do not need!
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08-15-2017, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifmon
Wow, I read through this thread. So glad the president offered to replace this for you. The only thing they should have done is offer the Performance Center version but a replacement is good enough.
I'd be tempted to sell it unfired to avoid a possible second lemon! But really, I'm sure you won't be THAT unlucky!
Here's what troubles me; What kind of climate exist's in S&W's customer service that prevented a MUCH earlier replacement??? The history of this warranty service should be looked at by senior management and CORRECT whatever is wrong at the management level. What motivated their indifference to a good paying customer's troubles on a relatively inexpensive gun???
Smith and Wesson; Turn your policies around. Fix it! This is a thread you do not need!
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Smith and Wesson just like any other company has protocols to follow and to expect them to upgrade you to a more expensive handgun is laughable. You may as well ask for one of their 1911's if you feel they owe you more.
I don't think everyone he has contacted over this issue was thinking they'd make sure to return it in the same shape. The biggest issue is that handgun was probably handle by numerous people and that's where you start to have the issues.
They should send it back to the same person who worked on it the first time and I'm betting it would've only made two trips being fixed or replaced after the second attempt.
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08-15-2017, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifmon
Wow, I read through this thread. So glad the president offered to replace this for you. The only thing they should have done is offer the Performance Center version but a replacement is good enough.
I'd be tempted to sell it unfired to avoid a possible second lemon! But really, I'm sure you won't be THAT unlucky!
Here's what troubles me; What kind of climate exist's in S&W's customer service that prevented a MUCH earlier replacement??? The history of this warranty service should be looked at by senior management and CORRECT whatever is wrong at the management level. What motivated their indifference to a good paying customer's troubles on a relatively inexpensive gun???
Smith and Wesson; Turn your policies around. Fix it! This is a thread you do not need!
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I agree with you. But I have to say one thing in S&W's defense . It feels to me that this is a problem with a few key people and not company policy.
Over emphasis on self importance is most likely the culprit .
"I'm in charge here . My dept , my rules. "
It's a big Company and problems do not always go detected until they have reached a certain level. Unfortunately harm has been done to all parties involved and will likely continue for some time after corrections have been made. Very unfortunate.
Going forward:
Nothing has been said to me , But I'm sure this chain of events is not going to just fade into the horizon. There is at least one CSR there who should get this whole thing holstered in their backside.
Enough Said.
Good News:
As promised, I was contacted by the Director of Sales & Marketing . I had stepped out to the garage and missed his call. I'm certain we'll connect at some point today.
I'll post after I hear from him.
Happy SHootin to All!
Petey
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08-15-2017, 11:07 AM
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I'm a little skeptical of their evaluation process. If the gun didn't malfunction on every single round, firing a couple test rounds then checking that all parts are "IN SPEC" makes me wonder how thorough their evaluation really was. From the OP comments it should have been an easy issue to re-create.
Anyway, you went up as far on the food chain as you could go and found the person willing to take action. Been there done that.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
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08-15-2017, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnshutterbug
After reading these types of posts, I am so thankful I got a trouble free Shield. I think this is pretty much par for the course for just about anything you buy nowadays. Even the best products seem to have at least a 5% failure rate. When looking at reviews on Amazon before I buy products, it appears that even with products that get 4.5 stars, there are some that get a lemon. Unfortunately, good customer service is almost a thing of the past. They figure that for 1 unhappy customer, there will be enough happy customers to keep their business prospering.
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I'm in the same situation as you....over 8000 rds thru shield 9mm and zero issues. I will add that I have had issues with Ruger semi-autos and their CS has been outstanding
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08-15-2017, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Robert
I'm in the same situation as you....over 8000 rds thru shield 9mm and zero issues. I will add that I have had issues with Ruger semi-autos and their CS has been outstanding
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Ruger is outstanding.
My Blackhawk had a small issue. Called Ruger , sent it back . They did whatever was needed and got it back to me in ten days.
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08-15-2017, 06:16 PM
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Well, They Blew it again.......
Yesterday:
Mr sales & Marketing fulfilled his obligation to his employer = Called me = I wasn't there to answer= He left msg.
I called back three minutes later =O no answer
Called his cell= O no answer
E-mailed best time to contact me =O
Today:
I called again today 10: am My time Left Msg = O
Why bother leaving your contact info if you won't answer your phone?
Great Job S&W --- really feeling the love!
SO --- I emailed the pres once again.
Last edited by M&Petey; 08-15-2017 at 06:49 PM.
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08-15-2017, 06:30 PM
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hold the bus .. I got a call. hold on.
Just got a phone call = email really works.
The wheels are in motion , so we'll see what takes place.
Can't wait to be done with this.
Happy Shootin!
Petey
Last edited by M&Petey; 08-15-2017 at 06:44 PM.
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08-15-2017, 06:45 PM
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Need some rocks? LMAO
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08-15-2017, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrowinRocks
Need some rocks? LMAO
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No , LOL, I have enough in my head.
What I need is some Gold !
One nice thing... I had an Apex kit in my shield ... I don't want it back === bad juju that gun. So they are going to send it to the PC for me. I thought that was a nice gesture.
Last edited by M&Petey; 08-15-2017 at 07:38 PM.
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08-16-2017, 09:20 AM
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Petey, I don't mean to poop on your thread but I have been in your situation with S&W before so I understand what you're going through...
The fact that you are detailing conversations that S&W would obviously rather remain between you and them is part of the reason why they are so unyielding in these situations, where they know they put out a lemon and then resist replacing it.
They worry, both policy-wise and legally, about the precedent they would set if word gets out like in these forums, that they actually replace bad guns. They'd be swamped with such requests by every gun owner who stopped liking his gun for whatever reason.
Although I disagree with their reluctance to replace lemons like yours, I know that in the real world they would have many requests for replacements and refunds if they started doing that. Obviously, their customer service is about the worst I have experienced in the current gun market but aside from Ruger and a handful of others, no gun manufacturer wants to stand behind the marginal pieces of **** that they're pumping out during the plastic revolution...
If I ran S&W, I'd fire everyone in customer service and start from scratch by modeling my operation after Ruger. I'd also require a signed confidentiality agreement between the factory and people like you who deserve a replacement gun or other compensation
and I'd expedite such actions to take place asap.
By the way, the actual ceo of S&W is Matt Buckingham, who came from Brownell's, which we know is a customer oriented company. It's ironic that he has done so little to improve the situation at S&W since he's been running the show now for almost 2 years.
Remember, today most gunmakes are run by bean counters and not enthusiasts.
I hope your situation is resolved to your delight soon...
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08-16-2017, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonuthin
If I ran S&W, I'd fire everyone in customer service........It's ironic that he has done so little to improve the situation at S&W since he's been running the show now for almost 2 years....
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Fortunately, I've never had any major issues to deal with, but I've contacted S&W's CS several times over the past 10+ years, usually with relatively piddly stuff, and the folks I've gotten on the phone have always been polite and quick to help.
Typically, they'll just say, "gimme your mailing address, we'll send you one, pronto", which I'm always thrilled to hear. I've been raving about their CS for years.
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08-16-2017, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark IV
Fortunately, I've never had any major issues to deal with, but I've contacted S&W's CS several times over the past 10+ years, usually with relatively piddly stuff, and the folks I've gotten on the phone have always been polite and quick to help.
Typically, they'll just say, "gimme your mailing address, we'll send you one, pronto", which I'm always thrilled to hear. I've been raving about their CS for years.
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I've only had one occasion to contact S&W CS (Shield9 RSA) and my experience mirrored yours. I was a bit surprised that they didn't even ask me for the serial number.
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08-16-2017, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonerydin
I've only had one occasion to contact S&W CS (Shield9 RSA) and my experience mirrored yours. I was a bit surprised that they didn't even ask me for the serial number.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I had the RSA fail first time out..called = no problem they sent me a new one. The RSA is peanuts. Meat and potatoes issues like a defective firearm = different story.
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08-20-2017, 02:01 PM
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My Shield 9 has been my everyday/night stand carry piece for about 4 years now. No problems with over 2,000 rounds through it. Made no modifications and used this pistol over a weekend at a Valor Ridge Pistol Craft 1 class with NO issues using WWB rounds. Agree with others, there is a part that is bad. Like another person said, try a good local gunsmith and see what they might say? Otherwise, lots of luck.
__________________
5906tsw,MP15,Shield9/45,39-2
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08-20-2017, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pa5906tsw
My Shield 9 has been my everyday/night stand carry piece for about 4 years now. No problems with over 2,000 rounds through it. Made no modifications and used this pistol over a weekend at a Valor Ridge Pistol Craft 1 class with NO issues using WWB rounds. Agree with others, there is a part that is bad. Like another person said, try a good local gunsmith and see what they might say? Otherwise, lots of luck.
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Happy to hear your Shield has been good to you.
Can't see paying someone to fix something that the MFG is responsible for.
Thankfully ,S&W has agreed to replace my troublesome little shooter.
I'm hopeful the new one will serve me well , as I really like the Shield. We'll see.
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08-20-2017, 08:26 PM
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What's your mailing address just in case...LMAO
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08-21-2017, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&Petey
Happy to hear your Shield has been good to you.
Can't see paying someone to fix something that the MFG is responsible for.
Thankfully ,S&W has agreed to replace my troublesome little shooter.
I'm hopeful the new one will serve me well , as I really like the Shield. We'll see.
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I'm curious as to whether a new gun would have to go thru an FFL. My new shield PC9 has an issue, and if it needs total replacement, I'd be pretty unhappy about having to pay the FFL another $25. But I'm thinking it would have to go thru an FFL. Anybody know?
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08-21-2017, 10:07 AM
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Being a repair or replacement under warranty. No
It should ship to your front door unless your city or state says otherwise.
If you want to confirm it call S&W CS
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08-21-2017, 07:25 PM
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The New Pistol will go to the FLL = S&W will pay the DROS.
Return from repair = straight to me.
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08-21-2017, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&Petey
The New Pistol will go to the FLL = S&W will pay the DROS.
Return from repair = straight to me.
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Yeah, I was thinkin new gun, new serial number.. they must have to go thru an ffl.
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08-21-2017, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by googabee
Yeah, I was thinkin new gun, new serial number.. they must have to go thru an ffl.
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This is indeed the federally required practice. I went through it last year - they couldn't repair the one I sent in, so sent a new gun to the FFL I designated. I sent S&W a copy of the register tape showing the transfer fee and got a check from them within about a week.
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08-22-2017, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrangler5
This is indeed the federally required practice. I went through it last year - they couldn't repair the one I sent in, so sent a new gun to the FFL I designated. I sent S&W a copy of the register tape showing the transfer fee and got a check from them within about a week.
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Happy to hear it all went so well.
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08-22-2017, 01:04 PM
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Federal Law: A manufacturer CAN ship the same or substantially similar replacement direct to the customer.
General Practice: Even though they CAN do it, most will require a local FFL for CYA purposes and full compliance with local regulations.
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08-22-2017, 03:26 PM
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How much money did this one gun cost S&W via all the return shipping charges, salaries, and other misc. costs compared to the production cost of a new one?
They probably spent double, triple, quadruple the amount it takes for them to produce it. This is enough to wonder what exactly S&W is doing with their business model.
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08-22-2017, 05:55 PM
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iPac - Yeah, in this case, they they lost money by following their standard repair practices, but on average, most returns are probably obvious, easily diagnosed and repaired defects. Their repair policies most likely make economic sense when dealing with thousands of repairs.
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08-22-2017, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPac
How much money did this one gun cost S&W via all the return shipping charges, salaries, and other misc. costs compared to the production cost of a new one?
They probably spent double, triple, quadruple the amount it takes for them to produce it. This is enough to wonder what exactly S&W is doing with their business model.
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2016 profits of $294m. Up 50%. I'm not going to question their business model.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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08-24-2017, 08:44 AM
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Things are getting exciting.... Appears that my new Shield will arrive at the FFL today. Bummer is, It's going to be in jail for ten days.
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