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Old 08-25-2017, 11:02 PM
KF-NYC KF-NYC is offline
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Unhappy If you Dry Fire - try using snap caps

Went to the range today and my 9mm Shield wouldn't fire. It turned out the firing pin had broken since my last trip to the range. My estimate is that I've shot at least 3k or maybe 4k rounds. Additionally, I frequently dry fire at home. Although my range gave me and installed a new firing pin, I'm sending my Shield back to Smith and Wesson to be checked out. I will be using snap caps when I dry fire in the future. You may want to think about using snap caps if you dry fire on a regular basis. Well, it looks like I'm going to have to get use to carrying a J frame while my Shield is being worked on. :-(
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:26 PM
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i always use a zoom snap caps when i dry fire my S&W revolvers
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Old 08-26-2017, 12:01 PM
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Read Q? #5. It does not state ANYTHING about snap caps.

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Old 08-27-2017, 01:42 AM
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Your malfunction was not caused by using your gun for dry practice. In fact, you probably gain a lot of improvement by doing dry practice.

While the striker should last much longer than 3K rounds, they do break sometimes. In fact, nothing is impervious to failure. I have 2,427 rounds through my M&P45 and at least 20 times that in dry presses. My striker still looks fine.

In your case, it's probably just one of those things. Stuff breaks sometimes.

You're right to send it to S&W.

Just a note about terminology: the Shield has a striker rather than a firing pin. They serve almost the same purpose though.
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Old 08-27-2017, 08:04 AM
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When buying snap cap/dummy bullets be sure they have an impact piece in place of a primer so that the firing pin has something to rebound from.
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Old 08-27-2017, 08:13 AM
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The legitate, necessary use of snap caps to prevent damage is limited to rimfires and a few older firearms. Modern centerfire firearms will not suffer damage from dry firing. The best use of snap caps and dummy ammo is to simulate malfunctions to enhance training . . .
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Old 08-27-2017, 11:35 AM
Walt Sherrill Walt Sherrill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
The legitate, necessary use of snap caps to prevent damage is limited to rimfires and a few older firearms. Modern centerfire firearms will not suffer damage from dry firing. The best use of snap caps and dummy ammo is to simulate malfunctions to enhance training . . .
That's a broad statement and wrong in part.

It's probably best to use guidance from each gun's Owner's Manual, as some give specific guidance as to whether snap caps should be used. If there's no warning against dry-firing, you're probably safe.

Some rimfires can be safely dry-fired -- Ruger semi-autos, which have firing pin stops, immediately come to mind. (I've been told that the S&W Model 41 can be safely dry-fired, too, but have no direct experience with that gun. The only warning in the owner's manual against dry-firing is that it should NOT be done when the slide has been removed or gun is disassembled.)

Some modern center-fire guns shouldn't be dry-fired. Older CZ-75Bs with a single firing pin retention roll pin shouldn't be dry-fired unless you use a snap cap -- and CZ then shipped new guns with a cheap plastic snap cap in the case. The current Taurus PT92 manual says use a snap cap (and don't dry-fire otherwise); the manual for the similar Beretta 92 recommends using a spent cartridge or using a snap cap when practicing trigger pulls (but doesn't say don't dry fire with an empty chamber.) The Ruger center-fire guns, like the LC9/9s and SR9 can be dry-fired IF the magazine is in the gun, but will be damaged if it's not.

The Beretta Tomcat, a modern center-fire weapon, doesn't warn against dry-firing in the manual I found online, but when I bought one new, I didn't see a warning in the Owner's Manual and dry-fired away. I quickly broke a firing pin even though I had always used a snap cap! The Tomcat firing pin hits so hard it will eat up even good-quality snap caps quickly, and I didn't notice the damage to the snap cap until it was too late! (I've heard from others with similar experiences with their Tomcats.) I think all Kel-Tec owner manuals warn against dry-firing without snap caps (and present it as a GENERAL statement for all handguns.)

Some guns require you to dry-fire when field-stripping, but with some of them the owner's manual recommends that you NOT DO IT EXCESSIVELY. I think that is now what is taught in Glock Armorer classes. The new FN-509 also has that instruction in the Owner's Manual; the manual for the similar FNS 9 and 40 models, the design upon which the FN-509 was based, does NOT include that warning.

If you get the right kind of SNAP CAP, like the Tipton (which has a spring-loaded "primer" area), there is little chance of doing harm to the gun. With most striker-fired guns, like the M&P, you can pull back the slide just enough to reset the striker and not fully unchamber the round.

Good quality snap caps are cheap insurance, but depending on the gun, may be an unnecessary expense. I have them and use them, depending on the gun.

Last edited by Walt Sherrill; 08-27-2017 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 08-27-2017, 08:15 PM
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I don't use snap caps on my M&Ps and have never had a problem
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Old 08-27-2017, 09:14 PM
KF-NYC KF-NYC is offline
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Disabled1 thanks but I am well aware that S&W has included the Shield with its handguns that can be dried fire. I would not have dry fired my Shield had S&W included it within its list of handguns that should not be dry fired. I concur with Rastoff that my dry firing may not necessarily be the cause of the broken firing pin. I've pressed that trigger back 1000s of time both in live and dry fire. I couldn't give an estimate on how many times I've dry fired that pistol. As both Muss Muggins and Walt Sherrill have indicated snap caps certainly will not damage your handgun. It may or may not provide a little extra insurance in safe guarding and maintaining your firearm - obviously it not going to brake anyone's bank to buy snap caps. Dry firing helps to improve and maintain my shooting skill. If I were to only live fire at the range, for me it would be like playing the guitar without any calluses on my fingers. I don't go to the range as frequently as I dry fire. Without calluses on my fingers I wouldn't play my guitar often. Similarly if I didn't dry fire my shooting skill would become stagnant. I merely put the issue of using snap caps out there for shooters who like me dry fire frequently. The bottom line of course is that it is all up to you whether you decide to use snap caps or not to use snap caps.
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Old 08-27-2017, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt Sherrill View Post
That's a broad statement and wrong in part.

The Beretta Tomcat, a modern center-fire weapon, doesn't warn against dry-firing in the manual I found online, but when I bought one new, I didn't see a warning in the Owner's Manual and dry-fired away. I quickly broke a firing pin even though I had always used a snap cap! The Tomcat firing pin hits so hard it will eat up even good-quality snap caps quickly, and I didn't notice the damage to the snap cap until it was too late! (I've heard from others with similar experiences with their Tomcats.) I think all Kel-Tec owner manuals warn against dry-firing without snap caps (and present it as a GENERAL statement for all handguns.)
I broke off TWO firing pin tips, dry firing (without snap caps), in a new AMT .40 DAO Back Up, when they first came out (1996?). The mainspring on that pistol is s t r o n g, no doubt contributing to high pin velocity...

A lot of the Kel Tec's use a notched firing pin and set-screw type arrangement, to both retain the pin in the slide, and limit its breechface protrusion. The speculation is that excessive dry firing can peen the set screw tip, which can make removal difficult, and possibly kick up enough burring to impede firing pin travel.
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Old 08-27-2017, 11:30 PM
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One thing we do know. Using them cannot possibly hurt anything.
SO, rather than risk damage, I'd use them with any gun I was going to dry fire extensively.
But that's just me, YMMV...
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Old 08-28-2017, 12:13 AM
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I wish they'd sell them singly. Can't imagine needing more than one for a semiautomatic.
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Old 08-28-2017, 12:16 AM
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Some Snap Caps can actually cause issues and others are useless!

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Old 08-28-2017, 03:15 PM
Walt Sherrill Walt Sherrill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH
I wish they'd sell them singly. Can't imagine needing more than one for a semiautomatic.
A single one would probably cost as much as 3-5, and I have been known to misplace the darned things. If I were smart, I'd keep one in each of the cases the guns came in, if the guns need them.

(Then, too, if you order by 'net, as I do with most of my gun stuff, postage tends to cost as much as the relatively inexpensive stuff. And the only ones I've seen in gun shops aren't they type I'd like to buy -- the Gun Shop ones just don't seem to hold up or protect the gun.)

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Old 08-28-2017, 03:43 PM
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I have been using the A-Zooms in my handguns and rifles. Work fine. Buy them singly ? When you have more than one pistol in the same caliber...
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Old 08-28-2017, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Your malfunction was not caused by using your gun for dry practice. In fact, you probably gain a lot of improvement by doing dry practice.

While the striker should last much longer than 3K rounds, they do break sometimes. In fact, nothing is impervious to failure. I have 2,427 rounds through my M&P45 and at least 20 times that in dry presses. My striker still looks fine.

In your case, it's probably just one of those things. Stuff breaks sometimes.

You're right to send it to S&W.

Just a note about terminology: the Shield has a striker rather than a firing pin. They serve almost the same purpose though.
What he said

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Old 08-29-2017, 11:44 AM
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This is the Nth time I've posted this.....the firing pin retaining pin [keeps the firing pin in the FP channel] takes alot of abuse. My Ruger LC9 had a retaining pin break after alot of dry firing. Ruger fixed it and their advice: "use snap caps with a spring loaded primer when dry firing". That is when I began using Tipton snap caps. I will continue using Tipton snap caps in all pistols.
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Old 08-29-2017, 11:48 AM
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This is the Nth time I've posted this.....the firing pin retaining pin [keeps the firing pin in the FP channel] takes alot of abuse. My Ruger LC9 had a retaining pin break after alot of dry firing. Ruger fixed it and their advice: "use snap caps with a spring loaded primer when dry firing". That is when I began using Tipton snap caps. I will continue using Tipton snap caps in all pistols.
So how does Ruger quality relate to S&W/Glock/HK? Same raw materials? Same manufacturing process? Just because they have a retaining pin doesn't mean it was engineered the same way or intended to be used the same way. My carry gun has 15 years of shooting and dry fire. Nothing ever broke.

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Old 08-29-2017, 11:39 PM
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not sure how all compare quality wise, but Ruger sells more guns in USA than any manufacturer. I do not see any downside in using snap caps.
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Old 08-29-2017, 11:56 PM
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not sure how all compare quality wise, but Ruger sells more guns in USA than any manufacturer. I do not see any downside in using snap caps.
No there is no downside except a little money. My daily carry is used by 60% of US LEO, US military and police forces and armies around the world. Ruger can sell more but it's not used/tested/shot more. The simple act of purchase doesn't speak for anything other than money spent. Civilian sales don't necessarily mean anything, plenty of people here and elsewhere buy a gun a week

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Old 08-30-2017, 12:18 PM
Walt Sherrill Walt Sherrill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik
No there is no downside except a little money. My daily carry is used by 60% of US LEO, US military and police forces and armies around the world. Ruger can sell more but it's not used/tested/shot more. The simple act of purchase doesn't speak for anything other than money spent. Civilian sales don't necessarily mean anything, plenty of people here and elsewhere buy a gun a week
What is YOUR daily Carry? I don't know of any gun carried by 60% of US LEO, US military, and police forces and armies around the world. That's a pretty SWEEPING claim. How did you arrive at that 60% number? (CZ makes that sort of claim, but their claim seems to be based on the number of users, not the number of guns used.)

If you talk about guns actually issued to LEOs or military personnel, Berettas are probably the handgun most widely used by militaries around the world -- simply because the U.S. military must have over a million M9s on hand -- and other governments still use them. Glocks have only recently begun to be more-widely used by the U.S. military. Glocks and SIGs are used by militaries around the world, but the size of those militaries are relatively small.

On the other hand, the simple act of "government" purchase doesn't tell us much about the intrinsic value/worth of a gun, either. What's sold to U.S. Law Enforcement Agencies is as much based on PRICE as performance.

I would suspect that a LOT of Ruger's sales are for .22s, so their sales totals mean something different than the totals sales of SIG, Glock, or S&W. Nobody else seems to sell as many .22 long guns. (FN probably sells more center-fire long guns than any other gun maker, and their machine guns are used by MANY countries and especially by the U.S. military!)
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Old 08-30-2017, 01:09 PM
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What is YOUR daily Carry? I don't know of any gun carried by 60% of US LEO, US military, and police forces and armies around the world. That's a pretty SWEEPING claim. How did you arrive at that 60% number? (CZ makes that sort of claim, but their claim seems to be based on the number of users, not the number of guns used.)

If you talk about guns actually issued to LEOs or military personnel, Berettas are probably the handgun most widely used by militaries around the world -- simply because the U.S. military must have over a million M9s on hand -- and other governments still use them. Glocks have only recently begun to be more-widely used by the U.S. military. Glocks and SIGs are used by militaries around the world, but the size of those militaries are relatively small.

On the other hand, the simple act of "government" purchase doesn't tell us much about the intrinsic value/worth of a gun, either. What's sold to U.S. Law Enforcement Agencies is as much based on PRICE as performance.

I would suspect that a LOT of Ruger's sales are for .22s, so their sales totals mean something different than the totals sales of SIG, Glock, or S&W. Nobody else seems to sell as many .22 long guns. (FN probably sells more center-fire long guns than any other gun maker, and their machine guns are used by MANY countries and especially by the U.S. military!)
Will SIG Break GLOCK's Law Enforcement Stranglehold? - The Truth About Guns

"Today, almost two-thirds of US law enforcement agencies use GLOCK products."

It's not 60% total of everyone around the world.

Light Triggers, Hefty Profits – Mother Jones

"The Glock 9mm and .40- and .45-caliber pistols are the guns of choice among America’s law enforcement agencies; 65 percent of US law enforcement officers have Glocks in their holsters."

More than half of NYPDs 40 some thousand cops carry Glocks. Philadelphia PD, 6500 officers 6500 Glocks... Other large departments like

At least 69 countries around the world use Glocks as either police, Military or both. 46 countries use Beretta. Beretta has a big US contract but not so much with other countries. Just about every country has more than one brand of handgun in their inventory.

Sometimes departments switch to something else sometimes they switch to Glock. But it's still the dominant US LEO handgun.



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Old 08-30-2017, 04:05 PM
Walt Sherrill Walt Sherrill is offline
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The "Truth about Guns" article says 60% of LEO agencies use Glocks. It doesn't say how many Glocks are used in those agencies, or whether they are the only weapon used. (A department that only buys 5 Glock 17s is one of the "almost 2/3s" cited!) The New York PD uses Glocks, too, but it also uses a variety of S&Ws and SIGs, too.
Note: CZ long claimed that their handguns were used in more places the world than any other handgun. That might be (or has been) correct, but that doesn't mean that there are MORE CZs were used in all of those places than any other Gun.
The British Army, a couple of years ago, traded in their FN High Powers for Glock 17s, but that was only 25,000 handguns -- and the British Army is one of the largest armies in Europe. Latvia uses Glocks, as does Norway, the French Special Forces, and the Iraqi Armed Forces. But, alas, handguns aren't issued to everyone in uniform. I'll bet all of those weapons, combined, don't come close to the number of the Berettas used by the U.S. Department of Defense -- even though the Iraqis bought 125,000 Glock 17s!

The article you cited about Glock (65% of LEOs) from Mother Earth, is 17 years old -- do you have any proof that it's still correct? During those years a lot of S&W 3rd Gen guns and Beretta were phased out, and not all of those agencies went to Glocks!

I don't doubt that a LOT of police departments use Glocks, but that doesn't mean those guns get shot a lot -- but your claim was, in effect, that Glocks were the equivalent of "battle tested" (either in military or police combat.) Except for the Iraqi Army, few of the national militaries using Glock are involved in combat! Indeed, most military small-arms combat is done with shoulder-fired weapons, not handguns. The vast majority of LEO guns are carried a lot and shot very little. (I've known a lot of LEOs, have a son who is a NC State Trooper, and most of them have never fired a shot on the job -- except when periodically qualifying.) I've owned a number of police trade-ins, and most of them are alike: some holster wear but like new internally.

That said, I like Glocks. I think it's an elegantly simple design. And while I only have two Glocks at the moment (a 37 and a 38), I'll likely have more, over time -- but they'll all get trigger upgrades. I loved my Glock 34, but I like my "Apex'd M&P Pro, even better!

All that said, I continue to be wary of the reasoning many folks use in justifying their choice of weapons and how they interpret (or misinterpret) the data they cite.

.

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Old 08-30-2017, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
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The "Truth about Guns" article says 60% of LEO agencies use Glocks. It doesn't say that how many Glocks are used in those agencies, or whether they are the only weapon used. The NYPD uses Glocks, too, but they also use S&Ws and SIGs. That claim doesn't tell you a darned thing about HOW MANY are used!!

CZ claims that their weapons are used in more places than any other gun. They might be right, but that doesn't mean that MORE CZs are used in all of those places than any other Gun.

The British Army, a couple of years ago, traded in their FN High Powers for Glock 17s, but that was only 25,000 handguns -- and the British Army is one of the larger armies in Europe. Latvia uses Glock, as does Norway, the French Special Forces, and the Iraqi Armed Forces. But handguns aren't issued to every military man or weapon. I'll bet all of those weapons, combined, together don't come close to the number of the Berettas used by the US Army -- even though the Iraqis bought 125,000 Glock 17s!

The article you cited about Glock (65% of LEOs) from Mother Earth, is 17 years old -- do you have any proof that it's still correct? During those years a lot of S&W 3rd Gen guns and Beretta were phased out, and not all of those agencies went to Glocks!

I don't doubt that a LOT of police departments use Glocks, but that doesn't mean those guns get shot a lot -- but your claim was, in effect, that Glocks were the equivalent of "battle tested" (either in military or police combat.) Except for the Iraqi Army, few of the national militaries using Glock are involved in combat! Indeed, most military small-arms combat is done with shoulder-fired weapons, not handguns. The vast majority of LEO guns are carried a lot and shot very little. (I've known a lot of LEOs, have a son who is a NC State Trooper, and most of them have never fired a shot on the job -- except when periodically qualifying.) I've owned a number of police trade-ins, and most of them are alike: some holster wear but like new internally.

That said, I like Glocks. I think it's an elegantly simple design. And while I only have two Glocks at the moment (a 37 and a 38), I'll likely have more, over time -- but they'll all get trigger upgrades. I loved my Glock 34, but I like my "Apex'd) M&P Pro, even better!

All that said, I continue to be wary of the reasoning many folks -- including YOU -- use in justifying their choice of weapons and how they interpret (or misintrepret) that data they cite.
MARSOC, AFSOC and Marine special forces. Would that be considered "shot a lot"?

.
FBI. Is that considered "shot a lot"?

I understand that not every single gun that comes out of the factory is shot a lot or even at all.

I don't see misinterpret. One agency allows 3 different handguns. In that agency Glock accounts for roughly half. That means the other two split the other half along with a % off grandfathered guns. Militaries don't typically buy based on looks or what their soldiers think should be. Typically there's testing. In the last military handgun selection Glock and Sig were the only two to pass the mean round count.

There's plenty of cool guns. Plenty of collectable ones too. However, when it comes to carry this is the only way I purchase. If someone showed me where years of testing has proven Taurus to be above all others I'd gladly buy a Taurus. I have no emotional attachment to guns, I only want ones that put reliability above all else. FNs new 509 has been said to be around 1 million rounds without issues (I'm assuming barrels and springs were changed). Now this is coming from FN itself. Peaked my interest. Now, if a few years worth of testing proves it to be true (even if not all make it to a million) I'll be all over it.

I'm not into Apex'ing. Nothing wrong with that. Apex makes good quality parts. Just not my thing. Not into swapping parts and whatnot. The firearm either come how I like it right out of the box or I just don't buy it. A good example would be an ambi safety on a 1911. Being a lefty I need one. I can find plenty without and buy the ambi safety later and have it installed. I'd rather just buy one with it already installed. My only interest is inserting ammo

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Old 08-30-2017, 04:35 PM
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I used a Sure Strike laser ammo 9mm on my M&P 2.0 and a SD9ve both striker pins broke after a lot of dry fire . Supposedly they are safe to use but I am hesitant to use the system after my pistols were repaired.
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Old 08-30-2017, 07:42 PM
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Saying, "I've been dry firing for X number of years, and never broke a firing pin", is like saying, "my uncle smoked for X number of years, and HE never got lung cancer". In both instances, many did not fare as well.
I've been shooting for over 55 years. Any gun I may want to REALLY depend on gets dry fired with some sort of snap cap.
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Old 08-30-2017, 07:56 PM
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Saying, "I've been dry firing for X number of years, and never broke a firing pin", is like saying, "my uncle smoked for X number of years, and HE never got lung cancer". In both instances, many did not fare as well.
I've been shooting for over 55 years. Any gun I may want to REALLY depend on gets dry fired with some sort of snap cap.
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Maybe a different way of phrasing is better. Just about everyone dry fires and very few use snap caps. It's a none issue. When one breaks It's more like saying your uncle never smoked but got lung cancer. Can happen although not typical

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Old 08-30-2017, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik
MARSOC, AFSOC and Marine special forces. Would that be considered "shot a lot"?

.
FBI. Is that considered "shot a lot"?
I don't know. Do You? We don't know how often any LEO (FBI or otherwise) is involved in shootouts or practice sessions, and actual shootouts with criminals is rare for most cops.

You may not be misinterpreting the data you cited but that seemed likely. As for the inferences anyone can make based on the comments above, there's simply no "there" to tells us how much or how often the weapons in question have been used. You apparently assume a lot, but that's YOUR assumption.

We DO KNOW, however, that handguns, while used in all sorts of military units, are seldom primary weapons or the weapon of choice. Most don't even have handguns as an option.

Most of the Special Ops-type troops have access to a wide array of weapons -- and use what they want (or think best) for a given task or mission. One SEAL I talked with said that for many missions he'd rather have an extra canteen of water than a handgun. (He might've been pulling my chain, but he seemed serious.)

On another forum, where SEALS participate, one said that he and some fellow-SEALS DO prefer a Glock 19 (newly approved for their use) over the SIG P228 when climbing rope ladders (clandestinely boarding ships or going up the sides of buildings), but every SEAL would generally prefer a machine gun for almost any other situation.

I think you overestimate the role and importance of handguns in military applications and grossly overestimate the frequency with which LEOs use their handguns.
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Old 08-30-2017, 09:25 PM
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On another forum, where SEALS participate, one said that he and some fellow-SEALS DO prefer a Glock 19 (newly approved for their use) over the SIG P228 when climbing rope ladders (clandestinely boarding ships or going up the sides of buildings), but every SEAL would generally prefer a machine gun for almost any other situation.

I think you overestimate the role and importance of handguns in military applications and grossly overestimate the frequency with which LEOs use their handguns.
And you know those participants are SEALS how? . . .
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Old 08-30-2017, 09:35 PM
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Snap Caps? I don't need no stinking Snap Caps!
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:40 PM
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And you know those participants are SEALS how? . . .
They're members of the M4CarbineNet forum, known there by name. They're considered topic/area experts on that forum. Their preference for a Glock over a P228 plays no real role in this discussion except to show that SEALS do have access to Glocks. Their use of a Glock tells us little about the role handguns play in military combat, how frequently LEOs really fire their weapons, or whether Glocks are truly more "combat-tested" than a number of other handguns, including Berettas or SIGs.

As for the SEAL I talked with, he was the engaged to a woman I worked with some years back; they later married. I have also talked, from time to time, with a fellow who was been a civilian trainer with Special Ops troops at Ft. Bragg, here in NC. He knows a lot about what weapons are used by those troops and how and when they are used -- as he trains these very specialized troops about the best ways to use them and helps them improve their skills. (He also ran some classes for our IDPA club members several years ago. Great instructor!)

So your point is?
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Old 08-30-2017, 11:36 PM
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"QUOTE"!
So your point is?
"QUOTE"!

You sure "LOVE" to get arguments going!
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Old 08-31-2017, 12:09 AM
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AMAZING!

How the heck did a thread about the benefits (or lack of benefits) of using snap caps devolve into arguments about which company sells the most guns and/or what guns Navy SEALS prefer?

The level of thread drift required to start such unrelated arguments positively boggles the mind....
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:23 AM
Walt Sherrill Walt Sherrill is offline
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My apologies for MY PART of the topic drift...
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt Sherrill View Post
They're members of the M4CarbineNet forum, known there by name. They're considered topic/area experts on that forum. Their preference for a Glock over a P228 plays no real role in this discussion except to show that SEALS do have access to Glocks. Their use of a Glock tells us little about the role handguns play in military combat, how frequently LEOs really fire their weapons, or whether Glocks are truly more "combat-tested" than a number of other handguns, including Berettas or SIGs.
Way too many experts on M4CarbineNet.
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  #36  
Old 09-01-2017, 11:06 AM
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And you know those participants are SEALS how? . . .
Because the guy on the internet said he was. Geesh, get with the game man. He said it on the INTERNET. Everyone knows you can't lie about being a SEAL on the internet.
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Old 09-01-2017, 11:10 AM
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Way too many experts on M4CarbineNet.
Why cause they didn't agree with your purchase?

Several people on that forum have helped design and build the HK45 for US military Joint Combat Pistol Program. So yeah...lots of experts

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Old 09-01-2017, 01:15 PM
MichiganScott MichiganScott is online now
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Because the guy on the internet said he was. Geesh, get with the game man. He said it on the INTERNET. Everyone knows you can't lie about being a SEAL on the internet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
Why cause they didn't agree with your purchase?

Several people on that forum have helped design and build the HK45 for US military Joint Combat Pistol Program. So yeah...lots of experts

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My last AR was a Colt 6920. I had no idea that they were now badmouthing that model on M4CarbineNet. Thanks for the enlightenment. What does ArfDotCom say? Which boutique model put together by retired shadow troops should I have bought?

This whole discussion has become petty and needs to be shut down.
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Old 09-01-2017, 01:31 PM
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My last AR was a Colt 6920. I had no idea that they were now badmouthing that model on M4CarbineNet. Thanks for the enlightenment. What does ArfDotCom say? Which boutique model put together by retired shadow troops should I have bought?

This whole discussion has become petty and needs to be shut down.
Not a mind reader and don't have a magic crystal ball. Also don't have an ARFcom account.

Can just as easily not respond

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Old 09-01-2017, 09:15 PM
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If a firearm company states that you CAN dry fire your weapon, you bet your sweet *** I will be dry firing it/them! And, if said company offers a lifetime warranty and the weapon breaks from dry firing, again, you can bet your sweet *** they WILL be fixing it/them!
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Old 09-03-2017, 11:16 AM
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Read Q? #5. It does not state ANYTHING about snap caps.

FAQs | Smith & Wesson
Sir, you post was #3. How could you know what "will be" posted in #5...???

Is there popcorn?
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Old 09-03-2017, 11:40 AM
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Sir, you post was #3. How could you know what "will be" posted in #5...???

Is there popcorn?
He linked to the Smith & Wesson owner's manual. Question 5 in the link was regarding dry firing a Smith & Wesson handgun . . .
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Old 09-03-2017, 04:02 PM
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Sir, you post was #3. How could you know what "will be" posted in #5...???

Is there popcorn?
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Old 09-03-2017, 04:23 PM
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I own and use SnapCaps in several firearms. I won't intentionally dry fire a hammer fired firearm ever. Even with striker fired designs, I don't excessively dry fire. For disassembly and function testing, no issue.

Some people sit and dry-fire their pistol hundreds of times over several hours to "break it in". I've never practiced this. I'd much rather take it to the range and actually fire it with live rounds to "break it in". Still, plenty will say there weapons never suffer from dry firing. More power to you.
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Old 09-03-2017, 04:49 PM
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Dry practice is the key to quality shooting. I wouldn't do dry practice just to break in a gun, but I do a lot of dry practice to work on trigger control.

Without exaggeration I have well over 100,000 dry presses on my carry gun alone. I've got plenty on other guns as well. With guns I use regularly, I do at least 10:1 dry presses to live fire. With the guns I use the most it's closer to 30:1.
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Old 09-03-2017, 04:56 PM
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Unless it is a rimfire or really old you don't need snap caps. In fact snap caps like a zoom can actually leave aluminum shavings after repeated use which is obviously no good for your firearm.
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Old 09-03-2017, 05:17 PM
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I used the A-Zoom in an AK forever. I never thought about how the aluminum wore off.

Funny, I still haven't had a single problem with that AK.
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Old 09-03-2017, 06:50 PM
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Some Centerfire Guns like Kel-Tec PF-9, P32 etc.. should never be dry fired due to their design and U can do serious damage besides the Pin, also certain types like CZ 52, 75. should also never be dry-fired!
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Old 09-04-2017, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akdude
also certain types like CZ 52, 75. should also never be dry-fired!
The original CZ-75 could be dry-fired. The early CZ-75B, with a single firing pin retention roll pin COULD break that pin (not the firing pin) -- but many folks dry-fired without problems. (I never had a problem with a 75B, but I broke a roll pin quickly with a new CZ-40B, which had the same mechanism. A local hardware store had a compatible roll pen... $.75.)

Later CZ-75Bs and subsequent models based on the same design were upgraded to use a doubled roll pin (a pin within a pin), and its no longer a problem. (I thought I read that CZ went to a solid pin, but haven't seen that claim confirmed.)

The CZ-52 broke firing pins easily, but after-market providers frequently offered upgraded firing pins that were not easily broken.

Many of the .22s that have problems don't always break firing pins, but crater the edge of the chamber (where the .22 rim sets); when cratered, the firing pin can't hit with the rim with full force.
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:10 PM
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I used the A-Zoom in an AK forever. I never thought about how the aluminum wore off.

Funny, I still haven't had a single problem with that AK.
An AK? According to the acolytes, you can't break an AK no matter what you do.

I mean, they can be made from a shovel: DIY: Shovel AK - photo tsunami warning!!
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