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  #1  
Old 09-16-2017, 03:42 PM
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Default I'm losing faith in S&W...

Maybe I just have bad luck, but I've had nothing good come from the last 3 guns I purchased from S&W. Here's a quick synopsis.

1) brand new M&P 2.0 FDE 5" 9mm, bad locking block right out of the box. Sent back to S&W the day after purchase and they still have it 11 weeks later I'm losing faith in S&W.... Told me hopefully I'll have it back by week 13... really?? 3+ months for a repair?

2) Shield 9mm, trigger bar problem. Sent back, took 11 weeks for a fix.

3) Shield 45, first time out today with 190 rounds and came home to find a blown out RSA upon field strip for cleaning I'm losing faith in S&W...

Seriously... *** S&W? I'm just here stating facts, but your quality is in the toilet. I'm seriously thinking of abandoning your platform and going back to Glock. I can honestly say I've never had any issues with my prior Glocks, and don't understand why you are having so many QC issues. It's pretty clear you have problems when you have a 12 week backlog of repairs!



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Old 09-16-2017, 04:02 PM
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Ouch! Ouch! Ouch!
Why you? That is disheartening to hear of 3 QC issues, my Shield 45 has far exceeded my expectations. The FDE 2.0 5" was on my radar but found my Holy Grail gun so that went on the back burner.

Hopefully you can get a new RSA sent to you, that is an easy quick fix. The waiting times you mention are unacceptable in my opinion on a new gun, it's a shame there isn't an authorized repair facility to help facilitate a more rapid turnaround.
I hear good and bad about Glocks but mostly good, personally it is a brand I have never owned nor have desire to, it just isn't my type of gun to own, I have owned plenty of others though

I think if you stick with that Shield 45 you will be most impressed, I don't know your type of shooting but I dropped in an Apex sear on mine along with a little other refining and just love it!

They say trouble comes in three's................your problems are over so start enjoying................
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Old 09-16-2017, 04:30 PM
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Default I'm losing faith in S&W...

Hopefully you're right Karl! How can one guy have so much bad luck I'm losing faith in S&W.... I know Glocks aren't the end all, be all... but at least I can depend on them. Every manufacturer has problems, but I'm having serious confidence problems with S&W right now.

BTW, I do like the Shield 45 a lot and hopefully it can become dependable. I also put in the Apex sear, but left the stock springs.


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Old 09-16-2017, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonpup View Post
Hopefully you're right Karl! How can one guy have so much bad luck I'm losing faith in S&W.... I know Glocks aren't the end all, be all... but at least I can depend on them. Every manufacturer has problems, but I'm having serious confidence problems with S&W right now.

BTW, I do like the Shield 45 a lot and hopefully it can become dependable. I also put in the Apex sear, but left the stock springs.


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I'm sure this doesn't help to hear but with a small sample size of three it sounds like you just had bad luck. I think after three lemons S&W ought to do something to make it up to you, though...
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Old 09-16-2017, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonpup View Post
Maybe I just have bad luck, but I've had nothing good come from the last 3 guns I purchased from S&W. Here's a quick synopsis.

1) brand new M&P 2.0 FDE 5" 9mm, bad locking block right out of the box. Sent back to S&W the day after purchase and they still have it 11 weeks later I'm losing faith in S&W.... Told me hopefully I'll have it back by week 13... really?? 3+ months for a repair?

2) Shield 9mm, trigger bar problem. Sent back, took 11 weeks for a fix.

3) Shield 45, first time out today with 190 rounds and came home to find a blown out RSA upon field strip for cleaning I'm losing faith in S&W...

Seriously... *** S&W? I'm just here stating facts, but your quality is in the toilet. I'm seriously thinking of abandoning your platform and going back to Glock. I can honestly say I've never had any issues with my prior Glocks, and don't understand why you are having so many QC issues. It's pretty clear you have problems when you have a 12 week backlog of repairs!



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What is that?
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Old 09-16-2017, 05:05 PM
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recoil spring assy.
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Old 09-16-2017, 05:51 PM
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The waiting times are as bad as the experience of one person having three guns needing repair. I wonder if the buyout of S&W has something to do with it. I bought a Remington 380 pocket gun recently. I was thinking about the Bodyguard, but after really searching this forum for Bodyguard problems I decided to pass on it. I have the 22 Compact and it works fine. I do not see many complaints about it.

I have a Ruger Lc9s. I was going to replace it with. Shield 9mm, but read too many problems with the shield 9 here. I belong to two Ruger forums and I do not see anywhere the level of QC complaints there, although there are some.

This kind of story is not doing SW sales any good.
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardw View Post
The waiting times are as bad as the experience of one person having three guns needing repair. I wonder if the buyout of S&W has something to do with it. I bought a Remington 380 pocket gun recently. I was thinking about the Bodyguard, but after really searching this forum for Bodyguard problems I decided to pass on it. I have the 22 Compact and it works fine. I do not see many complaints about it.

I have a Ruger Lc9s. I was going to replace it with. Shield 9mm, but read too many problems with the shield 9 here. I belong to two Ruger forums and I do not see anywhere the level of QC complaints there, although there are some.

This kind of story is not doing SW sales any good.
3 guns IN A ROW. I also sent my BG 380 back twice, came back each time unresolved. Ditto with one I sold to a client/student. I put a 12+ pound trigger in it to make fire, then put in the safe. It hasn't been out since. I did replace the battery in the laser sight, didn't fix the no dot issue.
If I want a reliable, quality S&W, I go to my 3913 or 686 from years ago.
Actually, my 15-22 has been flawless, too, go figure. Hey! and my M&P 22. Great, they might have the .22 figured out! WooHoo!
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Old 09-16-2017, 07:40 PM
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My recent S&W purchase experience based on buys from 4/1/17 thru 6/28/17 (All are First Responder LE Guns):

Six New .45 Shields (Label date codes 11/16 thru 3/17) - First four had problems with constant failures to feed caused by the old, ungrooved magazine followers. Resolved thanks to this forum's threads about the availability of new grooved followers. S&W Customer Service, LE Tech Support and S&W regional LE Rep failed to advise me of these new followers during several conversations about the mis-feeds. One of the four had a defective Recoil Spring Assembly that required replacement. Fifth .45 Shield had a poorly ground trigger bar which had to be replaced. Sixth .45 Shield is perfect so far (replaced mag followers). All six .45 Shields are insanely accurate!

Four New .40 Shields (Label date codes 11/16) - All function perfectly with 100+ rounds thru each one so far. All are reasonably accurate but not beyond about 15 yards.

Three New 9mm Shields (Label date codes 2/17 thru 6/17) - Two functioned perfectly with 100+ rounds thru each so far but very inaccurate. At 15 yards, one shoots 12" to left and 6" high; other shoots 12" low and 6" to right. Third New 9mm Shield still in the box unfired.

My impression of S&W based on my recent personal experience is that you only have about a 25% chance of getting a reliable, decent quality gun right out of the box. The rest of them require some level of repair or parts replacement. You really have to carefully inspect and test-fire a new S&W Shield to be able to decide whether it should be your carry gun. You definitely cannot trust the factory quality control if there is any at all. I personally believe that they ship everything that reaches the end of the assembly line and operate under the principle of only addressing defects that the buyer turns up afterwards. Many companies in different industries do that today. I think that's bad procedure for any brand or product line.

My 20 years of Glock buying and usage has turned up only a few "dogs" that shouldn't have left the factory and those were very recent Gen3 & 4 LE guns - maybe a new trend among all gun-makers now? Ship and Pray?

The bottom line? Buyer beware and make sure you really examine and prove any new carry gun by shooting it as many-hundreds-of-rounds as you can afford before you depend on it.

My impression of S&W? Nice people, great talkers, lots of apologies BUT very little commitment to customer satisfaction after the sale other than their willingness to send you some non-critical replacement parts. There is little information cross-flow or consistency of message among various departments within the company.

Most disappointing is the "black hole" of factory warranty repair where your recently purchased gun disappears for months and months and has about a 50% chance of not working properly once you get it back. That is a horrible inadequacy that amounts to company negligence and may be legally actionable because the unreasonably lengthy delays are well-documented and tend to undermine the legitimacy of S&W's claims of providing a "lifetime" warranty.

What do you expect from a company owned and operated by very experienced bean-counters driven to maximize profits for themselves and investors? It sure ain't your old Smith & Wesson anymore.
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Old 09-16-2017, 07:54 PM
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Try a revolver perhaps!
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Old 09-16-2017, 08:04 PM
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Or swap for a minty 3913!!
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Old 09-16-2017, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonpup View Post
Maybe I just have bad luck, but I've had nothing good come from the last 3 guns I purchased from S&W. Here's a quick synopsis.

1) brand new M&P 2.0 FDE 5" 9mm, bad locking block right out of the box. Sent back to S&W the day after purchase and they still have it 11 weeks later I'm losing faith in S&W.... Told me hopefully I'll have it back by week 13... really?? 3+ months for a repair?

2) Shield 9mm, trigger bar problem. Sent back, took 11 weeks for a fix.

3) Shield 45, first time out today with 190 rounds and came home to find a blown out RSA upon field strip for cleaning I'm losing faith in S&W...

Seriously... *** S&W? I'm just here stating facts, but your quality is in the toilet. I'm seriously thinking of abandoning your platform and going back to Glock. I can honestly say I've never had any issues with my prior Glocks, and don't understand why you are having so many QC issues. It's pretty clear you have problems when you have a 12 week backlog of repairs!



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Shield 45 is fantastic right outta the box. Trigger especially is superb. I have an extra OEM Smith & Wesson guide rod recoil assembly you could have if you didn't wanna wait for S&W to send you one.
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Old 09-16-2017, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonuthin View Post
My recent S&W purchase experience based on buys from 4/1/17 thru 6/28/17 (All are First Responder LE Guns):

Six New .45 Shields (Label date codes 11/16 thru 3/17) - First four had problems with constant failures to feed caused by the old, ungrooved magazine followers. Resolved thanks to this forum's threads about the availability of new grooved followers. S&W Customer Service, LE Tech Support and S&W regional LE Rep failed to advise me of these new followers during several conversations about the mis-feeds. One of the four had a defective Recoil Spring Assembly that required replacement. Fifth .45 Shield had a poorly ground trigger bar which had to be replaced. Sixth .45 Shield is perfect so far (replaced mag followers). All six .45 Shields are insanely accurate!

Four New .40 Shields (Label date codes 11/16) - All function perfectly with 100+ rounds thru each one so far. All are reasonably accurate but not beyond about 15 yards.

Three New 9mm Shields (Label date codes 2/17 thru 6/17) - Two functioned perfectly with 100+ rounds thru each so far but very inaccurate. At 15 yards, one shoots 12" to left and 6" high; other shoots 12" low and 6" to right. Third New 9mm Shield still in the box unfired.
You bought 14 examples of 3 models of guns in a three-month period!

How would I get my name included in your will?
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Old 09-16-2017, 08:48 PM
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Interesting, I had a Ruger SR45 with some problems, never was 100% confident in it. Sent it back three times. Always pretty quick, could never duplicate the problem. Now have a 9mm and .45. Shield. Both have been flawless and have my complete confidcence. I think the Shield is the best selling semi auto handgun, so I am not sure if the complaints are more or less than other guns, by volume. hopefully you have better luck soon !
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Old 09-16-2017, 08:53 PM
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A sad state of affairs indeed.
I joined this forum not because of my enthusiasm for my lovely older S&Ws but rather in disgust of both of my new S&Ws having to go back for repairs right out of the box.
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Old 09-16-2017, 09:23 PM
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Sorry to hear about your issues and the incredibly long wait to get your new guns fixed.

I'm pretty new to purchasing S&W products and have also had bad luck with my first two new purchases.

I purchased a .22 Compact and a 15-22 this spring and they both had problems out of the box. I sent my .22 Compact in to S&W and was told it would be more than a 2 month wait. After waiting about 3 weeks, I called and asked for a supervisor. I nicely told her that it was bad business to ask a customer of a new gun to have to wait months to get a brand new gun fixed. She agreed and I ended up getting it back the next week. You might try the same tactic. In fact, you have an even stronger gripe than I had.

They ended up replacing my barrel and the catch mechanism for the magazine on my .22 compact. It was consistently shooting high no matter how much I adjusted the sites. The magazines would not catch unless I really slammed them hard. Both of those issues are now fixed.

My 15-22 was having constant FTE's on about every 4th round with bulk ammo. Rather than sending the rifle in for repair I replaced the stock extractor with a Volquartsen extractor and the issues with bulk ammo stopped. I wonder why S&W can't make an extractor that works reliably with most ammo? Why don't they just purchase the extractors from Volquartsen? They actually work.

So, I am also not going to purchase S&W guns in the future. I have a Springfield XDS 9mm which has been flawless. I also have a Beretta .22 Bobcat that has been flawless.

Maybe I was just unlucky as well, but it makes me leery about how much attention they giving to Quality Control.

I think you are right that S&W seems to be more interested in pushing product out the door at the expense of quality control.

If this is true, it is going affect customer loyalty.
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Old 09-16-2017, 09:41 PM
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My experience has been on the far opposite end of the extreme! In the last several months I've bought a Shield 9, a 4.5" 2.0 in 9 and a 40. All three are fantastic shooters. They eat everything I feed through them without a hiccup. I couldn't be more pleased with a gun than my 3 M&P's. They're all new by the way, this year's models. Sorry to hear of so much bad and so many bad experiences. I still like em and plan to add a 45 to my stable. Hope your luck improves!

God Bless!!!
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Old 09-16-2017, 09:53 PM
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Sorry about your luck but I as well am at the opposite end. I just got back into S&W after being on a Sig only diet for years. In the last two years I bought

Shield 40 PC - 1100 rounds
M&P 9c. - 1300 rounds
M&P 9 1.0 - 1300 rounds
M&P 40 2.0 - 1800 rounds

Zero failures of any kind

Good luck

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Old 09-16-2017, 10:08 PM
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Ive been in the gun game about 3 years so Im pretty new to this.

While my level of commitment isnt at 14

I have purchased...

1- M&P .22c
2- M&P Shield 9mm's
2- M&P Shield 45acp's
1- M&P15

All have functioned flawlessly with any ammo and the AR has the ability to run at a FA rate of fire.

No problems whatsoever. Just lucky I guess
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Old 09-16-2017, 11:05 PM
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sorry for you, I had almost every single M&P model, used and new and never had an issue with any of them.


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Old 09-16-2017, 11:33 PM
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I've had M&P shield , 2 mp full size 9 , 2 MP 2.0 full size 9s , MP 9 compact and have only had 1 issue with the MP 2.0 black one. It was the slide stop that locked back every round and it was fixed within 5 weeks.


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Old 09-17-2017, 12:34 AM
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After tons of dry firing S&W replaced 2 broken firing pins . Sent call tags paid for shipping both ways . Fixed in reasonable time frame . These are factory made firearms . It is a good thing there are other brands to choose from but are they totally defective free ? We are not talking high end 1911's here . My S&W's seem to shoot accurately enough at defensive distances . Never purchased these for bullseye target shooting .
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Old 09-17-2017, 01:58 AM
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Did you buy all 3 from the same store?

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Old 09-17-2017, 08:00 AM
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This is really sad for a brand that I thought was suppose to be extremely high quality and reliable. I purchased my first S&W two years ago. A bodyguard .380. Second time shooting it the slide jammed up and wouldn't work. Had something to do with the mags. So I sent everything back and the swapped out the springs, baseplate, and followers. Took about 12-14 days. to get it back. Worked great since with about 600+ rounds through it.
My 1911 e series I purchased a year later seems to have some issues when racking the slide. You can feel it getting hung up on the barrel lugs. Customer service said it should go away after 500 rounds. Well after 600 rounds it still feels the same. I was gonna send it in but now after reading all the complaints of 13 weeks of repair and the chance it will just stay lost there and maybe come back unfixed has me thinking of taking to a gunsmith and paying to get it done right.
This doesn't make me feel like I want to continue buying more Smiths. It seems like they are just trying to crank out as many pistols as they can and worrying about whether they work right or not afterwards.
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Old 09-17-2017, 10:48 AM
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This thread is ridiculous. Every manufacturer has the same problems. Walther's customer service is atrocious. At least S&W sends me parts free of charge. Of all the firearms S&W produces and sells, I'd bet that 99% of them function as they should. Whenever these threads pop up, on any forum, it's always the same thing, people coming out of the woodwork to complain. Just send them in and get them fixed, doesn't matter how long it takes unless you don't have others to use/to protect yourself and your loved ones.
Also S&W was almost never independently owned. "Gen 3" is around 1988-2010 a time in which they were owned by Tomkins until 2001 when Saf-T-Hammer bought them, then they changed their name only, and again in 2016 they changed their name only. One could argue that they are currently at their former early 1900's glory at this point. Considering Saf-T-Hammer pres Bob Scott brokered the deal, and he left S&W in 1999 because he didn't like Tomkins. Credit to him for getting the numbers up by giving the people what they asked for and what the market demanded.

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IMO, S&W's quality control ended with the 3rd Generation line of firearms. That's when S&W was owned by S&W, not a company like the one that owns them now, and only thinks about the bottom line.
The real gunsmiths at S&W are probably long gone and replaced by company like robotic "kids." Again, just my opinion.
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Old 09-17-2017, 11:34 AM
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This thread is ridiculous. Every manufacturer has the same problems. Walther's customer service is atrocious. At least S&W sends me parts free of charge. Of all the firearms S&W produces and sells, I'd bet that 99% of them function as they should. Whenever these threads pop up, on any forum, it's always the same thing, people coming out of the woodwork to complain. Just send them in and get them fixed, doesn't matter how long it takes unless you don't have others to use/to protect yourself and your loved ones.
Don't be so quick to condemn those who contribute to this or similar threads simply because you hold a different opinion. This thread isn't about bashing S&W. It's about sharing actual experiences and noting that certain aspects of purchasing a S&W firearm need improvement, such as: the apparent recent deterioration in out-of-the-box product functionality; the unreasonable turnaround time delays for warranty service; and the disappointment that accompanies receiving a new and/or factory-repaired firearm that still does not work properly.

Your "bet" that 99% of S&W's work as they should is definitely NOT supported by any facts and is further discredited by the overwhelming number of threads, posts and comments to the contrary...actual experiences vs. wishful thinking.

Furthermore, just because some other manufacturer has poor customer service, in your opinion, does not at all justify or mitigate the fact that S&W seems to have set a noticeable and documentable pattern of out-of-the-box product deficiencies, especially recently. That kind of pattern is usually indicative of a company "milking" its brand to squeeze out extra profits at the expense of product value. S&W is certainly not the inventor of such a strategy!

And, finally, people don't come crawling out of the woodwork just to bash S&W for the fun of it. They are sharing their actual experiences and disappointments with others informationally and in the common hope that someone at the factory will take note and try to improve this woeful situation.

Have a good day!
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Old 09-17-2017, 11:46 AM
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Ive been in the gun game about 3 years so Im pretty new to this.

While my level of commitment isnt at 14

I have purchased...

1- M&P .22c
2- M&P Shield 9mm's
2- M&P Shield 45acp's
1- M&P15

All have functioned flawlessly with any ammo and the AR has the ability to run at a FA rate of fire.

No problems whatsoever. Just lucky I guess
Not luck, just a typical satisfied customer enjoying great products that were purchased at great prices. It's only a handful who are the "unlucky" ones, but they tend to sometimes blow things out of proportion on forums and this is how it goes. It's all good, and part of the free market system.
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Old 09-17-2017, 12:02 PM
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...when S&W was owned by S&W, not a company like the one that owns them now,...
S&W is still owned by S&W. At least as far as I can tell. It's not owned by a conglomerate like Browning or Winchester.


S&W is a victim of their own success. The popularity of the new M&P line is overwhelming. The Shield has taken the market by storm and they are trying to keep up with demand. In doing so, we're seeing some lapses in quality control.

11 weeks for a repair is far too long. Especially for such a small repair. Most of the service repairs I've seen or heard about were done, from date of shipping to actually receiving the gun back, in two to three weeks. It's not common to hear of it taking longer. To hear of it taking this long for more than one gun from the same owner is really rare.

Alas, I'm forced to agree, their quality control has gone down. Even so, you cannot buy a cheap gun like the M&P and expect it to perform like a custom gun.
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Old 09-17-2017, 12:18 PM
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And, finally, people don't come crawling out of the woodwork just to bash S&W for the fun of it. They are sharing their actual experiences and disappointments with others informationally and in the common hope that someone at the factory will take note and try to improve this woeful situation.
Sometimes yes, but not entirely true. There are thousands of trolls all over the internet, who take great pleasure in well, "trolling" user group forums and bashing a brand they personally don't like, just to piss people off. Maybe they had a problem with a product and they consider it their personal mission to do this, who knows. In some cases, they pose as owners and bash things they have never even really owned, maybe because they are "fan boys" of other products/brands. Happens all the time, probably more than you think.

Then you have the world of guerrilla and stealth marketing; where companies hire teams that really do come "crawling out of the woodwork," and why? to either promote products as posers or bash their competitors products, all done online in public forums. User group forums are excellent and I love them, but at the end of the day, they are used every day by highly competitive businesses more than you might imagine. Just food for thought.
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Old 09-17-2017, 01:03 PM
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I have more than a few S&W's. I only bought 2 new and that was in the last 12 months, a 617 and a 686. I've only had to send 2 back. Yes, the 617's timing was off out of the box. The 686 wouldn't hit the paper from 30'. Set the sights high and right just to get on the paper. After cleaning I looked closely at the rifling and spotted a ring about where the barrel contacts the frame. Apparently over torqued.
I got both back in less than 3 weeks. The hand was replaced on the 617 and is my constant range gun. The 686 had the barrel and rear sight replaced and now shoots POA with the sights centered. Both were in competent hands when returned to the factory and the service was very good.
I'm very happy with both guns now.
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Old 09-17-2017, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Nonuthin View Post
Don't be so quick to condemn those who contribute to this or similar threads simply because you hold a different opinion. This thread isn't about bashing S&W. It's about sharing actual experiences and noting that certain aspects of purchasing a S&W firearm need improvement, such as: the apparent recent deterioration in out-of-the-box product functionality; the unreasonable turnaround time delays for warranty service; and the disappointment that accompanies receiving a new and/or factory-repaired firearm that still does not work properly.

Your "bet" that 99% of S&W's work as they should is definitely NOT supported by any facts and is further discredited by the overwhelming number of threads, posts and comments to the contrary...actual experiences vs. wishful thinking.

Furthermore, just because some other manufacturer has poor customer service, in your opinion, does not at all justify or mitigate the fact that S&W seems to have set a noticeable and documentable pattern of out-of-the-box product deficiencies, especially recently. That kind of pattern is usually indicative of a company "milking" its brand to squeeze out extra profits at the expense of product value. S&W is certainly not the inventor of such a strategy!

And, finally, people don't come crawling out of the woodwork just to bash S&W for the fun of it. They are sharing their actual experiences and disappointments with others informationally and in the common hope that someone at the factory will take note and try to improve this woeful situation.

Have a good day!
Nice that you picked apart my post and chose only certain points to respond to. You didn't even respond to the complete thoughts but first truncated everything and then replied. You'd do great working for sensationalist media.
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Old 09-17-2017, 02:53 PM
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I am truly empathetic for anyone that spends hundreds of dollars on a firearm and must send it to the factory for repairs. S&W manufacturers fine firearms. Almost any pistol with an msrp of $400+ will be a reliable firearm. A rebate doesn't make a gun perform any worse. I've seen more people blame manufacturers when in fact the problem was user error in one form or another. Examine your products before you purchase, if the shop won't let you, move on to a different seller. I had a Glock 43 that gave me feed issues one day at the range. It was clean, lubed, with no defects but I sold it. I didn't come to a forum and claim negligence by a manufacturer. No sense worrying or getting fired up, just be done with it. And that isn't with every Glock ever, just like someone's problem with an M&P 2.0 translates to S&W sucks in 2017. My Shield 45 functions perfectly with an unknown round count, and I trust my life, and my loved ones lives to it.
Please just be safe, be certain that you trust your life to your firearms, if that's why you have them. If you have problems just get rid of them, or take them to a competent gunsmith. If a manufacturer says their lead time on a repair, whether you think it's a small or large repair, that's their lead time. Deal with it or take it elsewhere. The gunsmith I've used once just told me three weeks to media blast a slide to matte stainless. I know it's only gonna take half a day, if that, but I'm not the only customer.
Just be safe and trust your firearms.
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Old 09-17-2017, 04:32 PM
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Having to wait 2-3 months to get a new pistol serviced is ridiculous. I could see if you sent in a 20 year old revolver for service, but a new gun should go to the front of the line. Maybe the issue is there are so many new guns needing repairs that there is no way to prioritize?

I know the couple of times I had to use Ruger's customer service the turnaround time was 2-3 weeks.

I sent my LC9 in twice for what I thought was an issue. The second time the tech actually working on my gun called me to explain. He was right, and I thought the call was a nice touch.

I also had to send an LCR 9mm in (bought it right when it came out...lesson learned . Turnaround time was about 2 weeks, and the revolver worked great after that.

I just purchased a Shield 45 - picked it up from my FFL this afternoon. Had I seen this thread before making the purchase, I may not have gone through with it. Luckily, I was able to put 100 rounds through it with no issues. I hope it continues to function properly.

I agree that the immense popularity of the Shield and other offerings is probably putting strain on the manufacturing process, and warranty work. Hopefully they can get their house back in order.

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Old 09-17-2017, 05:20 PM
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They used to be capable of making fine firearms, the generation three pistols I own are some of them. So are the revolvers, but I do not like the plastic covered, striker fired **** of today. I am glad I lived to carry a 4506, and the alloy frame guns for off duty. I had to sell some great revolvers to buy the new semi-autos, but I am slowly buying them back. I hope they do not lose their quality control.
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Old 09-17-2017, 06:16 PM
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dam I was ready to buy til I read this.
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Old 09-17-2017, 06:29 PM
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Guys... you're talking about a handful of guns, out of how many hundreds of thousands produced over the past few years. And think about how many people have these same guns and aren't on this forum or any forum at all. I think the "99% of all S&W guns function as intended" would be a pretty fair statement. Probably more like 99.5%.


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Old 09-17-2017, 06:33 PM
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dam I was ready to buy til I read this.
If this one thread is going to discourage you, don't ever buy any products from any company.

The number of problems seen from a product like the M&P is minuscule when compared to the actual numbers produced. S&W has made M&Ps in the millions. Yet, if you do a search here to find all the threads with problems, it's going to be less than .01%.

It's a fact of life, nothing is perfect. Most of the guns that get sent to S&W for repair, are back in the owner's hands within 3 weeks.
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Old 09-17-2017, 06:36 PM
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I've seen shops where I live selling bodyguards for $229. Shields for $269. Fulls size M&P range kits for $415. Granted this is the final price with a rebate, but come on for these kind of prices there has to be some sacrifices in quality. I know of one shop that sells 20-25 shields a day! Now that is a mass produced product.
Come on now. The shield and bodyguard are not target guns. They are not sporting guns or collectible guns. They are made for self defense. The quality should be there but I guess they can't be for what they are selling them for.
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Old 09-17-2017, 06:52 PM
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Unbelievable........

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Old 09-17-2017, 06:57 PM
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Unbelievable........

I guess we all can't be as lucky as you.
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Old 09-17-2017, 07:06 PM
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Whatever...I sent my BG 380 back twice, they didn't fix it. It came back just like I sent it in. A 12lb+ trigger fixed it, but that is **** so it's a safe queen.
Ditto for one I sold to a student, that is one of my biggest failures to a student.
It's wonderful if you have a recent firearm that actually works. Good for you. That hasn't been my experience. Or that of these other respondents.
If you are that convinced of of the quality of S&W lately, please send me your guns, and I'll send you mine, and we'll get on with our lives. No
problem, right? I thought so.
THERE IS A PROBLEM!!! So, put up or shut up. Send me yours, I'll send you mine, and we'll both be happy. I refuse to send a NEW gun back three times for a resolution, that they insist isn't necessary. Your "99%" of buyers doesn't do ME any good whatsoever. Agreed? They didn't sell me a functioning firearm, they didn't repair it after two attempts, and I still don't have a functioning firearm. Period. I've tried NUMEROUS brands and types of ammo. I'm an NRA firearms instructor. I'm not "limp wristing...or whaveter." I've been shooting for YEARS with numerous types/calibers/brands/models of firearms. This stuff S&W can't be made to work.
So...if yours is flawless, and mine is all my fault, lets trade.
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Old 09-17-2017, 07:07 PM
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I agree that the immense popularity of the Shield and other offerings is probably putting strain on the manufacturing process, and warranty work. Hopefully they can get their house back in order.
Immense popularity and huge sales volumes undoubtedly put an enormous strain on a company's warranty process.

In particular, clueless purchasers are probably a big part of that burden on the system. It seems like every day or two I read some baseless complaint by an uninformed new owner. At least the ones who complain online have some chance of being corrected before they send perfectly functional guns off for "warranty repairs."
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Old 09-17-2017, 07:54 PM
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I'm seriously thinking of abandoning your platform and going back to Glock. I can honestly say I've never had any issues with my prior Glocks, and don't understand why you are having so many QC issues....
LOL...

"Glocks used to be a gun you could buy knowing it would function perfectly out of the box every time. I was 3 for 3 with glocks in that regard, and everyone I knew personally had their 9mm or .40 glocks function perfectly out of the box.

Then came the Gen 4 and everything changed. Whether it was the new recoil springs, glock retooling their production for the design change and to meet demand, going to mim extractors, changing their ejectors, or just a general decline in quality, the fact was that glocks manufactured during the introduction of the gen 4 suddenly began experiencing extraction issues.
Supposed solutions were found, and yet the problems kept occurring."

###

"I can tell you that the G19g3 I bought new in Aug., 2015, has had some stoppages. All of them are FT feed, nose up. Eight out of 1100 rds. fired. The first 3 were in the first 21 rds. fired, then all went well until I was around the 500 level, and I had 5 more FT feeds. Both mags had FT feeds, and the stoppages occurred using 3 different brands of ammo."

###

"The issues with the Gen4's were not restricted to Gen4's, suddenly every Glock I was handling and shooting was doing exactly the same thing, and let me tell you something, .45 ACP brass right between the eyes isn't funny!"

###

"So it looks to me like the answer is NO, glock never did sort out their FTE issues since the gen 4 release, and I guess they never will. What used to be the most reliable pistol out of the box ever made is now totally hit or miss."

###

"My G42 was a horror and had to be sent back in."

###

"This basically ruins glock for me. My guess around the gen 4 release they retooled and reengineered for a level of mass production and cost cutting that went way beyond what theyd done previously, and the results is quality has totally gone to ****."

###

"Its a shame, because I love the size, feel and capacity of the glock 19, but the problems are so widespread that its like buying a 1911 now, you may have to mess with it to get it to work right with no guarantee it will ever work right, or you might get lucky, its a coin toss."

###

"Glock likely doesn't care, they are probably raking in record profits with a cheaper speedier production process. They'll just live off the reputation they built before their reliability dropped off a cliff."

Did glock ever sort out their FTE issues since the Gen 4 release? - The Firing Line Forums

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Old 09-17-2017, 08:18 PM
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Did you buy all 3 from the same store?

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No, all different shops. I try to support all my local LGS.


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Old 09-17-2017, 08:29 PM
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I didn't post here to bash S&W, I was simply stating facts from my own personal experience. I agree all gun manufacturers have issues and none of them are exempt.

I'm sure the vast majority of guns work fine and it's only a small percentage that have problems. In my case, it would appear that recent production runs are problematic for S&W. The fact they have a 12 week backlog for repairs says it all.

UPDATE
Oh, one more thing. My repair is not a covered warranty repair, because although it was defective out of the box, I tinkered with it before shipping it back and technically voided the warranty. So this ended up being a repair I had to pay for out of pocket.

Maybe paid repairs are a different queue from a warranty repair?


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Old 09-17-2017, 08:54 PM
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I didn't post here to bash S&W, I was simply stating facts from my own personal experience.
I never took it as bashing S&W. It is what it is. Yours is a unique situation.


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UPDATE
Oh, one more thing. My repair is not a covered warranty repair, because although it was defective out of the box, I tinkered with it before shipping it back and technically voided the warranty. So this ended up being a repair I had to pay for out of pocket.

Maybe paid repairs are a different queue from a warranty repair?
This does change things a little. The warranty is only void if the modification you made caused the issue. Did your mod cause the problem?
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Old 09-17-2017, 08:58 PM
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Statistics. Anyone who has taken a statistics class knows how the numbers work. You can get odd groupings even in a giant sample size, it happens.

For me Smith has been great, and the two Glocks I owned had the horrible experience, believe it or not. 3 months? Glock took 5 to repair my 19 Gen 4 for light strikes and FTE.

Fact is, the only semi auto I have EVER owned that has never failed me in some way is my XD mod.2 with over 1000 rounds.

The only time a smith has failed me is when I put my SD9VE through a torture test of 800 rounds without cleaning, only then did it start to fail.

So again, statistics matter. However, statistics cant account for user perception.
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:39 PM
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Might also consider that they shut down for vacation and facility maintenance for a few weeks, don't remember if Aug or Sept, but work stacks up during that time.
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:51 PM
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I never took it as bashing S&W. It is what it is. Yours is a unique situation.





This does change things a little. The warranty is only void if the modification you made caused the issue. Did your mod cause the problem?


No, my tinkering did not cause the issue. It was an out of spec locking block that was too wide on the left and you couldn't get the slide on or off. My gunsmith banged it off with a rubber mallet. It was my pulling the locking block out and filing it down to get the slide back on that voided the warranty.


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Old 09-17-2017, 09:52 PM
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I'm losing faith in S&W... I'm losing faith in S&W... I'm losing faith in S&W... I'm losing faith in S&W... I'm losing faith in S&W...  
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Originally Posted by hoc9sw View Post
Might also consider that they shut down for vacation and facility maintenance for a few weeks, don't remember if Aug or Sept, but work stacks up during that time.


True, timing is everything I guess I'm losing faith in S&W...


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