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Old 10-09-2017, 08:32 PM
Rottentofu Rottentofu is offline
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Default Blew up my Shield...(2nd Update: Resolution in Process)

2nd Update: I spoke with Peak Performance again this morning and they agreed to reimburse me for the full cost of the pistol and buy back my remaining ammo. Despite what happened, I am very satisfied with how this company handles this incident. Accidents could happen to any company, big or small, it is how a company corrects a problem that truly shows its integrity.

================================================================


Update: Ammo vendor called. Claimed the problem was out of battery detonation. He said it was because the shell was blew out from the side and the magazine was blew out. Both signs of out of battery detonation. He recommended me to send the pistol back to S&W for inspection.

He sounded like a stand up guy. He said he will definitely take care of everything if it was the ammo's fault. He just needed more proof. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and will send the pistol back to S&W for inspection.

=======================================

Was just at ASR shooting my Shield with factory reman 9mm 147gr subsonic when it blew up. I was lucky enough to escape with minor flesh wounds. Got hit between the eyes and my thumb. Is the pistol salvageable? Should I send it to Smith and Wesson for repair?












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Old 10-09-2017, 08:37 PM
Wee Hooker Wee Hooker is online now
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First, Glad you escaped with just minor injuries! You got lucky.
As for the incident, I'd let the maker of the Ammo know ASAP.
Not sure how S&W will handle this as the frown on the use of anything but new production ammo. Keep us posted.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:39 PM
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Since you were shooting reloads I don't think S&W will cover it under warranty. It looks like the grip frame is bent. I would thank my lucky stars and call it a loss!
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:39 PM
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Ouch! Don’t own a Shield, but I bet your owners manual specifically states that using remanufactured/reloaded ammo voids the warranty. The ammo manufacturer may be at fault and if so needs to repair/replace your Shield.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:40 PM
bigfutz bigfutz is offline
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Reminds us to wear safety glasses.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:48 PM
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First, I'm glad you survived the blast.

Second, I'm guessing that dollar a box you saved by buying "factory reman" ammunition doesn't seem like such an awesome deal now.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:50 PM
Sevens Sevens is offline
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And what was the manufacturer of this particular box of factory re-man?
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:54 PM
Rottentofu Rottentofu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
And what was the manufacturer of this particular box of factory re-man?
Peak Performance Ammo.
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:01 PM
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Default Glad you are alright

I'm certainly glad you were only minorly injured, that could have been bad. Looks like defective ammo to me. As others have said, S&W might not cover it under warranty. Good luck, God bless and Semper Fi.
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:03 PM
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Bummer. Glad you're okay.
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:05 PM
Triggernosis Triggernosis is offline
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Were you wearing safety glasses? I often don't, but I think I will be sure to from now on.
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:07 PM
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If you bought the ammo. Never buy there again .
Old brass split at bullet flair
Old brass split it base = glock ed brass or
Powder charge problem.
All are avoidable. It's a shame.
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:38 PM
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I won't use reman ammo for precisely this reason.
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:46 PM
Triggernosis Triggernosis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stavey View Post
Old brass split it base = glock ed brass or
What is Glock ed brass?
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talldog View Post
I won't use reman ammo for precisely this reason.
I'm not opposed to remanufactured ammunition as long as I'm the one remanufacturing it. I'm borderline OCD and I totally trust my quality control. Some small outfit cranking out thousands of rounds trying to make a few bucks... not so much.
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:55 PM
stavey stavey is offline
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Glocked. Is a term for brass often times fired out of a glock . Often times there is a bulge at the base from the chamber not fully supporting the brass. I've seen it but have no idea if said brass was fired from a glock. If I run 500 rounds I check primers and cases case gage etc for all 500. I keep the split brass etc on the top shelf of the bench as a reminder. Honestly reloading is more for accuracy after time is factored in.

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Old 10-09-2017, 10:01 PM
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So the ammo you were using (according to their website) is around 20 cents/round). You can buy Federal American Eagle at the same bullet weight, subsonic new brand name for 2 cents per round more...$220/1000 instead of $205/1000. Why buy remanufactured? I dont get it.
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Old 10-09-2017, 10:14 PM
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Let’s assume we all buy high quality guns. Then I ask why would any of us shoot anything in it but high quality ammo. Saving a dollar and getting injured no matter how slight is foolish. First time you can claim you did not know. Next time you can only claim being foolish.

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Old 10-09-2017, 11:24 PM
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Geeze Louise...young guy just had a pistol blow
up in his hand, almost lost an eye, and you brow
beat him about shooting reman?

OP, in the pic of the ruptured brass case--that
dark area, it's not lead, is it?
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:51 PM
Rottentofu Rottentofu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve912 View Post
Geeze Louise...young guy just had a pistol blow
up in his hand, almost lost an eye, and you brow
beat him about shooting reman?

OP, in the pic of the ruptured brass case--that
dark area, it's not lead, is it?
It's okay. I learned my lesson.

As for the black stuff, I am not sure what it is, but I posted it in another forum and someone speculated that it is cleaning agent residue. This might've increased the pressure inside the round.
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Old 10-10-2017, 12:01 AM
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Thanks for sharing and taking the time to post a pic. Go safely.
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Old 10-10-2017, 03:58 AM
GeoJelly GeoJelly is offline
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I'm sorry to hear about your incident sir - but, I'm glad I saw this post. Up front, I am not a ballistics expert - but 147-g 9mm is kinda similar to 180-g .40SW. In order to meet cartridge overall length requirements - both bullets have to be seated deeply into their cases since they are longer than lighter bullets. This leaves a smaller case volume and greatly increases the potential for higher pressures. Pure SWAG, but the rounds were probably loaded to the correct length, but since they were reman so they probably used diff brands of cases. Different brass, different case thicknesses - and all it took was one of those rounds to hit the feed ramp too hard and it deep-seated the bullet. Pressure sky-rocketed as a result and you had your incident. Again, this is speculation. Back to why I'm glad I saw this post - I have some Federal factory 147-g that I'm going to gather up (almost two boxes) and use only in my CZ-75. I gave away my last box of 180-g .40SW and I'm never going to buy any 147-g 9mm again...

Edited to add: This could also have been the result of firing out-of-battery - with the slide not completely closed. Never having owned a Shield, I'm unsure of why that might have happened. I do know that firing OOB was a big enough of a concern that SIG made some design changes to the newest P320's to help prevent it. All of this said, previous comments about 'Glocked' cases sounds scarier and scarier.

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Old 10-10-2017, 07:06 AM
Dave Lively Dave Lively is offline
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Glad to hear you will be OK. I would flinch every time I pulled the trigger for the next year if something like that happened to me.

Any idea what part of the gun hit you between your eyes? I thought most of the time when a polymer gun gun gets blown up the debris goes down the magazine well and grip, not back towards your face.

This was not S&W's fault and it would be hard for them to tell what parts may have been stressed but not completely broken. You can call and ask but given the price of Shields these days I would suspect they will tell you to trash the gun and buy a new one. The company that sold you that ammo owes you a new gun. Contact them and offer to send the remains of the gun and defective round. Hopefully they will do the right thing and pay for a new gun. And some bandaids.
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Old 10-10-2017, 07:16 AM
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With so many people shooting Glocks nowadays, it would be almost impossible to find used brass that hasn't been "Glocked" at some point.


Thus, maybe 9mm is one of those rounds I don't need to load my own ammo for. And, unless you're shooting Service Pistol matches at 25 and 50 yards, I doubt one would notice any statistically significant difference in accuracy with handloads vs. off-the-shelf ammo. Would you?
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Old 10-10-2017, 07:29 AM
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In referring to brass that had been "glocked", there is also the possibility that the brass was previously used in a stepped chamber barrel. My H&Ks have that, and as a result reman, reloads, aluminum, and steel are not advised in those (by the manuals). The first time I saw the slight swell at the base of the casing freaked me out a bit.
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:21 AM
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Close call. Through this whole diatribe I've seen no picture of nor mention of the barrel.......is it damaged? Could this have been a squib load?

Rather than a hot load, it could have been a squib, and a properly loaded round behind it. Either way, overpressure would result.

And either way, S&W will not "repair" a gun damaged like this, for liability reasons. And don't be surprised if the ammo Mfg wants to pass the buck back to S&W. I've heard that story before....
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Old 10-10-2017, 09:26 AM
Rottentofu Rottentofu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim46ok View Post
Close call. Through this whole diatribe I've seen no picture of nor mention of the barrel.......is it damaged? Could this have been a squib load?

Rather than a hot load, it could have been a squib, and a properly loaded round behind it. Either way, overpressure would result.

And either way, S&W will not "repair" a gun damaged like this, for liability reasons. And don't be surprised if the ammo Mfg wants to pass the buck back to S&W. I've heard that story before....
No damage to the slide nor the barrel.
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:16 AM
matt berry matt berry is offline
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What was the headstamp on the brass?

While brass that gets a bulge down at the bottom is commonly referred to as glocked brass, a term glock earned from the early gen 2 40 caliber pistols, that featured a barrel with less support around the feed ramp. They have since fixed this issue, and most glocked brass I find was not shot out of a glock. You can easily tell this by looking at the primer, glocks leave a rectangular mark with a sort off teardrop mark from the firing pin.
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:33 AM
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Have you tried to contact the ammo manufacturer? If so, what did they say?

This is almost certainly caused by ammunition rather than the gun itself. I'm not one who refuses to use factory reloads. I've shot a bunch of them from a couple of different makers (mostly Buffalo Cartridge and Pro-Reload). I've fired a couple thousand rounds from each without incident. I have bought once from a couple of others, but won't buy again due to quality issues. I look them over before I load them. Anything that looks suspect doesn't get shot. That hasn't happened with the two companies I mentioned, but it did with some others that I will no longer buy. I also only shoot 115 grain reloads. Those offer a bit more margin for error in terms of seating depth unless loaded to max. Most factory reloads are not loaded anywhere near max.

The errors I've found with other brands include uncrimped rounds where the bullet is loose in the case, missing primers, and one squib round from Legendary Ammo. No harm was done by the squib since the next round wouldn't fully chamber, and I couldn't fire again. I consider that lucky because I would have fired again and probably destroyed the gun if the next round had chambered. I do have one round from Pro Reload with the primer backwards. I received one round of .223 from Legendary with the bullet seated backwards. Obviously I did not load those.

With the price of factory rounds right now I haven't bought reloads in awhile. If you watch Wikiarms you can find factory 9mm for between 18-20 cents per round in case lots. I watch for the deals and buy before I need it.
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:47 AM
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Glad you weren't more seriously injured. From the photos, it appears that your Shield fired out of battery. I think the results would have been the same no matter what ammo you used.
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:07 AM
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I have had my own kaboom with a 357 Maximum. It took months to regain any confidence. I now reload almost exclusively.

9mm is the only round I don't handload for.

The price of $.20 for factory is just too sweet to pass. I also don't shoot that much 9mm. It is one of my least favorite calibers.

I have shot thousands of rounds in the past from LAX. They make good looking rounds with mild loads.

We have a dangerous hobby. Lower your risks when you can.


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Old 10-10-2017, 11:26 AM
67tempest 67tempest is offline
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Glad to see you are OK, that's the main thing, the firearm can be replaced. This is the reason I never shoot any ammo reloaded by anybody but me.

I was just at a show in PA and a 1000rd case of factory 9mm ammo was selling in a range of $180- $200. The reloaded ammo was selling for more than the factory stuff.
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:37 AM
Rottentofu Rottentofu is offline
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The vendor replied today asking for more details. He wishes to resolve the issue as quickly as possible. I sent him a reply. Lets see what he does.
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:57 PM
PHolster PHolster is offline
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Good luck, and glad you weren't more badly injured. I might involve S&W in this as well. I am sure it isn't their fault, but they may be able to help by certifying it it was the fault of the ammo, if the ammo manufacturer tries to say it wasn't their fault.
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:37 PM
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bnolsen bnolsen is offline
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had this happen with my glock 20 back in the late 90's. Bought ammo from the range and one round blew up. That one only sheared the mag catch. More recently i was testing a new recoil rod with brass washer in my 10mm compact. Unfortunately i had a partial feed that resulted in a ruptured case. Blew apart the mag plate (the whole pistol is steel). None of these were fun but the second one didn't freak me out as much as the first.

Both cases were nickel if that matters.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:57 AM
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Good luck with resolving this and what a blessing that you were not more seriously injured! Sometimes life gives us a heads-up and in this case yours was not too costly. I hope the ammo supplier will help you out, if he think his product was responsible. Guns are cheap; eyes and hands - not so much!
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Old 10-11-2017, 03:53 PM
ontargetagain ontargetagain is offline
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Do you have more of their ammo remaining?
Might be interesting to measure the OAL of a few, might be interesting to also use a bullet puller and take them apart.
Some 9mm brass has a 'shelf' inside the case, never use them! There have been other threads on that brass that has the internal 'shelf' 'step' in them, not safe.

My gosh your are very fortunate to avoid serious eye or face injuries. Sorry to hear of this experience no matter who is at fault. Don't risk using the frame, chassis of this gun, no doubt it has been over stressed in all aspects and possibly the barrel has been too even though it isn't showing obvious damage.
Karl

Just saw this on our Buy and Sell forum...........
WTS NIB Shield 9 +extras $275 del

Last edited by ontargetagain; 10-11-2017 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:23 PM
Bamabred Bamabred is offline
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I. Do. Not. Shoot. Re-manufactured. Ammo.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:24 PM
Rottentofu Rottentofu is offline
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How long should I give the ammo vendor to respond? He asked for detailed description of what happened and I gave that to him yesterday. It's been almost two days and no response.

I did get a response from SW. They asked me to ship the pistol back to them for inspection. Should I wait for the ammo vendor to respond before sending the pistol back to SW?
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  #40  
Old 10-11-2017, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rottentofu View Post
How long should I give the ammo vendor to respond? He asked for detailed description of what happened and I gave that to him yesterday. It's been almost two days and no response.

I did get a response from SW. They asked me to ship the pistol back to them for inspection. Should I wait for the ammo vendor to respond before sending the pistol back to SW?
Wait for the ammo vendor to respond. They may need way more than two days to run it past legal. I wouldn't send the revolver to SW until after that response.
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  #41  
Old 10-11-2017, 09:51 PM
Triggernosis Triggernosis is offline
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I'd send it to S&W now. I wouldn't be surprised if they send you a new gun back, even if they suspect bad ammo.
The ammo mfr. is likely going to want to have a certified gunsmith look at it anyway. Besides, you can't send them the gun anyway, unless they have their FFL license in addition to their Ammunition Manufacturer's License.
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  #42  
Old 10-11-2017, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rottentofu View Post
How long should I give the ammo vendor to respond? He asked for detailed description of what happened and I gave that to him yesterday. It's been almost two days and no response.

I did get a response from SW. They asked me to ship the pistol back to them for inspection.

Should I wait for the ammo vendor to respond before sending the pistol back to SW?
I would send the gun back to SW immediately with a couple of the rounds.

I would not in any way think about using that gun again until SW has given it a clean bill of health.

Call the ammo people and see what they want to do. You are darn lucky that accident didn't blow your face off.

I would also take a lot more pictures of the gun and ammo before sending it off. You might even want to consult a lawyer before doing anything and get some advice. Guns are not supposed to blow up.
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  #43  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:49 AM
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Lucky lucky you,glad you wasn't hurt seriously.
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  #44  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:54 AM
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Before you send anything anywhere take a lot of documenting photo's of gun and ammo. Good close up , several different angles, clear and in focus in good light. Once the gun/case is gone you will not have any "evidence" and up close in focus photo's can really help solve the "what happened" , they sometimes show little details the naked eye can't see.

Sorry about the mishap , glad no injuries...S&W will make it right.

Gary
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  #45  
Old 10-12-2017, 07:21 AM
DBasye1 DBasye1 is offline
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Thank the good Lord that you still have your fingers

Another reason to wear safety glasses.

In my years of shooting, I have had one squib. It disnt sound right, so I didnt fire the next bullet that had chambered. It was a factory bullet

There are a few culprits that this could have been
1) double charged bullet

2) Weakened case wall

3) Wrong powder

4) Bullet set back

My gut tels me this was a double charged bullet. But it could have been any of these.

As a reloader, I do trust my QC a bit more than some of the cheap stuff that I see out there.

I load range pickups almost exclusively. I havent had any problems.
I shoot lead 180g in my Shield and M&P40C

The brass in most cases, if its been reloaded a few times will lose its ability to hold a primer. You can also catch cracks and bulges if you inspect.

Good luck..... this is a good remeinder to be careful
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  #46  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:23 AM
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I agree with those that say hold on to everything until you hear back from the ammo manufacturer. Once you mail anything to anyone it is out of your control.

If the ammo company agrees to reimburse you for the gun and the ammo then I would send the gun to S&W for them to give it a look see. Heck, if the ammo company agrees to buy you a new gun and then you send it to S&W and they agree to send you a replacement, you could end up with two guns.

This is small compensation for the possibility of losing an eye and glad that you are OK but it would be neat if you ended up with two guns.
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  #47  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:10 AM
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Mark IV Mark IV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rottentofu View Post
Peak Performance Ammo.
Seems this company has a flair for irony.
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  #48  
Old 10-12-2017, 12:11 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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Got a picture of the case head? Is the primer still in the pocket?
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  #49  
Old 10-12-2017, 12:15 PM
Rottentofu Rottentofu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
Got a picture of the case head? Is the primer still in the pocket?


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  #50  
Old 10-12-2017, 02:02 PM
PHolster PHolster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBasye1 View Post
Thank the good Lord that you still have your fingers

Another reason to wear safety glasses.

In my years of shooting, I have had one squib. It disnt sound right, so I didnt fire the next bullet that had chambered. It was a factory bullet

There are a few culprits that this could have been
1) double charged bullet

2) Weakened case wall

3) Wrong powder

4) Bullet set back

My gut tels me this was a double charged bullet. But it could have been any of these.

As a reloader, I do trust my QC a bit more than some of the cheap stuff that I see out there.

I load range pickups almost exclusively. I havent had any problems.
I shoot lead 180g in my Shield and M&P40C

The brass in most cases, if its been reloaded a few times will lose its ability to hold a primer. You can also catch cracks and bulges if you inspect.

Good luck..... this is a good remeinder to be careful
Yeah, I have had only on squib in about 30 years of reloading. It happened about a year ago with my 38 special. It didn't sound right, so I stopped and looked. I could not move the cylinder, the bullet was half in the barrel, and half in the chamber. I quickly ordered a lockout die for my reloader.
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