Do I like the trigger? No. The physical trigger shoe. I would like to upgrade it to possibly an apex. My question since I have no experience with apex kits or many guns in general. Should I get the full kit or just a trigger? If just a trigger, are there other companies I should consider as well? If apex, aluminum or polymer?

I always recommend you shoot it until you get good with it, maybe shoot a few IDPA matches, and then decide what/if modifications you want to make. Action shooting under some simulated pressure is different than just playing with the trigger or casual plinking and you may change your mind with experience--or not.
If you plan any competition at all, the changing of the externally visible trigger disqualifies you from SSP or Production and puts you in with the modified divisions.

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Science plus Art

I always recommend the kit, but If you buy a stand alone trigger, you can always buy the duty kit w/o the trigger later when you're ready for the full awesome-ness of their trigger action.

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I'm thinking I'm just looking at the physical trigger itself as I don't like the hinge design. I don't mind it on my shield, I don't like it on the 2.0. I'm just curious if I should do the whole kit or if from factory it's close to the apex? I know they improved a few things in the 2.0.

It's still better than the stock trigger.

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Does yours have gritty pre-travel? Many report they still experience grittiness from the striker block. The new striker block in the Apex kit usually fixes this.

No one can really tell you what to get. If your only complaint is the actual trigger, you might as well just replace that with the polymer AEK for $40. But on the other hand... you can get the full DCAEK with the aluminum trigger for around $120 if you look around. I bought one for $123 shipped last night.

It feels fine to me. I'm more so asking if I would be replacing parts and not making a change. As in s&w did a factory apex type upgrade

S&W did a hell of a job improving the trigger over the 1.0 versions, but the Apex kit is still better than stock. I have Apex kits in all my M&P’s except one that I am keeping bone stock on purpose. It’s actually my wife’s who said I’m not allowed to touch it because she likes the stock trigger...she shoots it well too so who am I to argue!

It's hard to say if the improvement is significant enough for you to notice, especially after you consider the wide range of the quality of stock M&P triggers. Even then, we have no way of knowing how perceptive you are of unwanted trigger characteristics.

What I can tell you is...
The polymer or aluminum AEK trigger alone will reduce the overall trigger pull length by 20%.
Most seem to notice a significant difference when comparing the Apex USB to the OEM striker plunger.
The Apex sear further reduces the overall trigger pull length and weight and most notice an improved reset as well.

You could just buy the trigger and add additional Apex parts further down the road. It's definitely cheaper to get the full kit though.

I have installed the Apex duty kit with a thin blue line trigger and its smooth, crisp. Reduced pre-travel and over-travel. Its everything a great trigger should be.
If you get a trigger and like it, you can install the duty kit later. $40 for a trigger isnt bad at all...

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I installed an Apex duty carry kit with the aluminum trigger in my 1.0C and it was a noticeable improvement. I also have a new 2.0C that has the stock trigger. In my opinion there is not enough difference between the Apex and stock trigger on the 2.0C to justify the cost to upgrade. I think the trigger on the 2.0C is pretty good out of the box. That's my worthless opinion.

I have a lot of apex trigger parts experience. I just tossed the Action enhancement trigger in one of my 2.0's just to see what it felt like. feels pretty good. If you just put the $40 polymer trigger shoe in it won't make as big of a difference as doing the whole kit but I like the apex shoe better for the shape and being non-hinged. I also find the shields stock trigger just fine but the full sized trigger shoe has a much steeper curve. The apex polymer trigger shoe itself, because of the geometry, does actually cut a bit of the pre travel and over travel so that's a plus. Keep in mind that if you keep the factory sear and install just the apex trigger shoe, there is a chance you may have to file off a bit of the over travel stop section of the shoe to get it to function properly because with the factory sear you actually have to pull the trigger a tiny bit further to drop the striker. The engagement point on the back of the apex sear is actually milled a bit rounded off so its not likely to be an issue if you do the whole kit. It also might feel like the trigger is a little bit lighter because of the point of leverage depending on where your trigger finger sits. With the apex trigger shoes, you can really get down super low with your finger tip and that sort of changes the fulcrum point and feels a little lighter. but that will be largely subjective to the individual shooter.

the magic of the apex duty/carry kits aren't AS apparent in the 2.0's as in the 1.0's but I still like them better. it's really hard to beat the crisp glassy break of an apex gun. Now, as soon as they come out with the Forward set sear flat trigger kit for the 2.0's... that baby is going straight on my 5" FDE. that will be the first kit actually designed for the 2.0 system. The parts they have now are the same ones they had before... they just happen to be backward compatible. They had to redesign and manufacture some new parts for the FSS kits that are supposed to be coming soon for the 2.0.

the FSS kits are where the true apex magic is at. have those in my two full sized 1.0's and they are incredible. Still, I like a bit more pre travel in a carry gun though.

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Equal opportunity shooter

I found the Apex aluminum trigger (#100-064) new on ebay for $60 shipped. (seller only had 3, I got the last one). and I bought the Apex 2-dot sear (#100-063) from Brownells for $40. Installed in 20 minutes (see youtube), insane awesome better than stock. 100 rds Win White box, and 50 rds of HST's, and 50 rounds of Win LE this weekend. NO issues, ran freaking perfect with fmj and both defense hollow points. Still has a bit of take-up, but breaks super clean and reset is sweet. And it looks way better too. Get the Aluminum, you'll be glad you spent the extra bucks. I never even fired it once in it's stock form, can't stand plastic triggers, sorry.

I added the whole Apex kit to my 2.0, and love it, although, I thought the stock trigger was good. I added an Apex shoe to the PC Shield. Both excellent upgrades! It's your choice!

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Ordered the kit with the aluminum trigger. You guys better be right!

I hope your just being cheeky....

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Equal opportunity shooter

Of course. But I figured for the price I would get the whole kit and not just the trigger shoe off of your recommendations.

Here's a question. I see that there are two new springs included in the kit. If i put both in or just one or the other, what will that do? In a video i saw, they put in the heavier trigger spring but stuck with the stock sear spring. What if i did both apex springs? Or both stock springs? I don't want sneeze on it light. I want to be able to slowly pull back without the trigger "skipping" or my finger shaking as i pull. What does a heavier trigger spring do for my trigger? And what does a heavier sear spring do?

And is there any polishing or modding i should do in there while i have everything apart to improve feel or functionality?

Is that little ridge supposed to be there?

If you got the whole kit, then you should have all new trigger spring, sear spring, and striker block spring along with the striker block itself, the sear and trigger shoe.

First thing to remember is that ALL 3 of the apex springs you should have in the kit are heavier than stock. then its good to know where in the trigger pull they come most into play. The trigger return spring will affect overall trigger pull weight with emphasis on the pretravel. The striker block spring will add a tiny bit of weight to the point of the "wall" just prior to the break. And the sear spring (which is a lot heavier than stock) will affect the break weight itself.

The apex sear spring is much heavier than stock to make up for the substantial weight reduction cause by the design of the apex sear.

The apex trigger spring is heavier than stock as well but by a slimmer margin than the sear spring. The heavier trigger return spring in the 1.0's would actually increase not only the pull weight but also enhance the reset characteristic as well which was kinda nice. not sure about that effect on the 2.0 but I suspect it might be the same.

In the end, I would tell you to install everything Apex and then see if there's anything you would like to change and then you can use my guide. I will tell you that with the duty\carry setup, I tend to opt for the factory trigger spring and striker block spring and then do the apex trigger shoe, sear and sear spring and then I usually just stone and polish the original factory striker block to a domed profile (i have a system that works well). with the longer pre-travel, I don't like that to be too heavy. I like a lighter first stage into a medium wall and a nice crisp short break at the end.

With FSS kits I go all apex because those are a different animal but I won't go into that right now.

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Part 2....

I actually do quite a bit of polishing when I detail strip these guns. Its not really needed but I have noticed that it basically makes a brand new gun feel like a buttery broken in gun.

I polish all the rails, the trigger bar, the sear plunger, the little nub on the slide stop lever that runs against the trigger bar, the locking block area that contacts the barrel lug, and at least the top edge of the ejector. Basically any metal to metal surface that isn't melonited (nitrided, amornited). Polishing the apex parts doesn't seem to help anything because they are all well machined and pretty smooth but it won't really hurt them unless you go way overboard or something. I also pull apart the striker and polish that too, paying attention not to round off the edges of the striker-to-sear area.

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and part 3...

Hard to tell from the pic exactly what ridge your talking about but I will say that there can be a lot of tooling or casting marks on the trigger bars of these guns on that lobe area that the red arrow is pointing to. and there's usually some scratch looking lines on the side and that's normal with the function of the M&P trigger system. There's kind of a sharp milled section of the slide that "bumps" into it when the slide cycles back and that's what resets the trigger. After the gun has cycled several times, its usually as bad as it gets. after that, the part is essentially worn in to that gun. I polish the hell out of that nub of the trigger bar to deburr and smooth out any tool or casting marks because that's what contacts the striker block and can cause some grit in the trigger pull.

Hopefully all that helped!!

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Thank you for the explanation. So rather than good the polish route, I think I'll let it all wear together. As a goal . Now with all the springs in the kit, I see it brings it to 5-5.5lb. Imagining in my head, a lighter sear spring will allow the sear to pivot a bit easier, reducing trigger weight through the range of the pull, correct? The striker block spring would allow it to retract into the slide easier if it were stock as well, right? And the trigger return spring would make for a more solid springy trigger if I use the apex? If I skip all their springs, the break weight of the trigger would be much less, making it unsafe? Or just touchier? I think I will do all springs from the kit but I'm interested to see what a mix does. I want a short travel, non smushy trigger with a fast break. That's how I have had triggers on non fire arms modded, but they also weren't carry guns. What are the downsides to using stock springs and apex striker block, trigger shoe and sear?

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Not all the way. Just towards the end once the trigger bar engages the sear which happens just after the striker block is disengaged (with stock and apex duty/carry type kits)

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Right.

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Yes, throughout the entire pull cycle.

Unsafe is subjective. I will say that when I did my shield with all the stock springs and just the apex sear, I ended up with a very crisp, light break right at about 3.5lbs. Some people would be fine with that but personally I like about a 4.5lb break on my striker fired no-manual-safety defensive triggers. And I prefer to have a bit of take up or "pre-travel". I'm not a 1911 cocked and locked kind of guy. I prefer a simpler point and shoot system. Not that there's anything wrong 1911's... just personal preference.

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So let's talk about travel for a second and how the springs interact on the M&P series. From start of trigger pull (or press) to the end where the trigger stops, I think of as 3 different stages. Stage 1 is the pre-travel (or take up). This stage uses the trigger spring for the majority and then just prior to 2nd stage, the striker block and spring. At the end of stage 1 when the trigger bar engages the striker block, the tension of the striker block spring "stacks" on or adds to the tension of trigger spring. Stage 1.5 is the wall. Really i group this in with stage 1 but i wanted to explain a bit more on it.This is where the trigger bar engages the sear. The strength of the wall depends a lot on the sear spring at this point with a small amount being how light stage 1 is. Stage 2 is the break. This one is pretty simple. Striker drops and gun go bang. At this point the sear spring tension stacks on top of both the trigger spring and the striker block spring and of course the striker spring. Stage 3 is over travel. And this is the one that not many focus on and in my opinion is almost as important to accuracy as the break itself...if not more. To much over travel I think is why so many right handed people shoot low and left with glocks. After the striker drops, the trigger continues to travel until it hits some kind of mechanical stop. Because the striker has dropped at this point the resistance has all of the sudden dopped to and your finger sort of jolts back into the frame with a good amount of force. The more over travel, the longer the distance there is to build up a stronger jolt. Does that make sense? This jolt is happening at the same time the gun is firing. If you decrease the amount of over travel, you lessen the that jolt that throws off the accuracy. Trigger reset is sort of like stage 4 but I'm no gonna talk about that on this post.

So now we get to the apex parts. The apex dut/carry trigger shoe does take out a bit of the pre-travel and over travel and the sear shortens the overall break a bit. so the break on the apex sear is short and crisp. Triggers like the FSS kit get rid of the majority of the pre travel but that part isnt really adjustable on tje 2.0 system. The only unfortunate part about the 2.0 is that the new trigger bar and sear interface removes the ability to easily fine tune the over travel of the system. On the 1.0 you could adjust that very easily with the trigger bar loop. It's a trade off though because the new system I think makes for a more solid interface and a more consistent pull.

Again, I'm gonna say that "downside" is subjective. The results would be lighter over all trigger feel mostly. Possibly reduced reset feel. The tension ratio between pretravel and break might not be ideal but that will depend on shooter. I like my pretravel to be much lighter than the break so I can really feel the wall when staging my trigger.


Man I'm long winded...

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Equal opportunity shooter

But don't you think for a moment it's not appreciated.

To add to the discussion, I'm going to buy just the Apex trigger which comes with the new sear spring and buy the Apex sear separate. Plan on using the stock springs all around, but I'll have the stiffer sear spring just in case things are too light.

Good plan! I've found so far that, so far I have preferred the apex sear with their spring. Personally I think they should put the sear spring with the sear. Never have been able to figure out why they put it with the trigger shoe when bought separate. Because if you use the apex trigger shoe with the stock sear, I wouldn't use the apex sear spring because the stock sear is heavy enough. Or maybe sell the sear spring with both or something. Some places out their like speed shooter specialties actually sells some of the individual apex parts that they don't list on their site. I'm sure you could probably order over the phone with apex if you needed to...

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my 2.0 compact is my first SW, but by all accounts that i've read, mine has the same gritty trigger that all seem to complain about. i cant imagine that they 'fixed' anything in the 2.0.

Well, certainly not the trigger bar. It seems S&Ws tooling is leaving performance suffering damage in the bar. Some are really bad, like the picture. Mine wasn't quite that bad but definitely needed work to polish out.

Another source of grittiness is the striker block plunger spring. It is captured on the end of the cover plate in 2.0, unlike the old design of the MP 1.0. The old design allowed the spring to self center under the metal cover plate.

I've noticed the nub on my plate is not quite centered, so the cover plate could be holding the spring offset in its hole, causing you to feel coil bind with the hole walls as the plunger is depressed. I'm thinking about cutting that nub off the 2.0s plastic plate and letting the spring self center.

Attached Images

MP Trigger Bar.jpg (47.8 KB, 69 views)

Just put 200 rounds today through my new full size M&P 9 2.0. I’m a trigger snob and I think my gun is perfect from the factory.

Got daring and polished. I had to take a diamond file to the 3 angles because every one had large machining marks. Only took off what I had to and matched the angles. Then polished with 2500 grit paper and then dremel polishing wheel. Polished the back/ bottom of the striker too. Hope I did it right!

So long as the gun resets and releases the firing pin, all is well, correct? Excuse my questions, I'm new to firearms but not to tinkering!

Same here. People are too caught up on triggers... shoot. Shoot a lot.

However, i might do a polish job because i like the idea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

for the most part, yes. you can get into modifications with these that can remove a lot of the pre-travel but then your're into modifying the chassis (putting in set screws and the like) and then you can end up defeating the striker safety if you don't REALLY know what your doing.

I don't recommend getting that deep. I could do it but I haven't really felt the need. and Apex FSS kits solve that anyway, unless someone wants to do a shield where no FSS kit is available. There was one guy I saw on here that did that to his shield. he basically installed a set screw that held the trigger bar in a partially "pulled" position but had it resting at the point just before the trigger safety hit the frame. at that point the trigger bar hasn't engaged the striker block so it was technically just as safe as stock. Like I said though, I wouldn't advise you do anything like that just yet.... if at all.


No worries, I like sharing what I've learned.

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i dont feel comfortable modifying that far just yet! I just removed the bad stamping marks on the trigger bar and then flattened it out and made sure everything was ground straight. then hit it with sandpaper and then polished. I took little off (as far as i can tell, but i'm a perfectionist so i kept at it until it was aesthetically perfect lol) but all functions normal. My trigger kit is lost in the loop somewhere in USPS land so once i get that i'll see how it does. I hope all the polishing i did was for a good cause! I've learned a lot from you, i appreciate you taking the time to reply.

The difference between good and great. I shoot very well with the stock system but the apex system is just a lot more refined. Makes the experience even more enjoyable. Tighter groups and faster transitions.

some people like to tinker as well and I think that's a really good thing. because as long as they're being safe about it, it will give you intimate knowledge of your weapon system... how all the pieces interact and make you better equipped to handle a possible malfunction or a repair in the future.

Are they needed? some might say yes if they got a bad stock system but, in general, no. Are they fun? heck yeah!! I can shoot none of my guns faster and more accurately than my M&P 1.0 with the apex FSS kit. And its not because of training or practice... its because it mechanically changes the pull distance and weight.

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I've been lucky with all mine as well. All of mine have been pretty darn good. The 2.0 is definitely an improved system overall IMO. Seems they just struggle with QC. Lot of people getting these really rough trigger bars and gritty striker blocks. I wish they would just put in their PC striker block... nice round dome. more expensive though I guess to machine that rounded dome than the chamferred thing they put in them now. still the pre-travel grit seems to be less often now. before they were REALLY bad.

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Equal opportunity shooter

I really like the rubber polishing points for the dremel tools for some of this stuff. I get off brand ones on amazon and they have different grits but all pretty fine. Its just a grit tha'ts impregnated into the rubber and they just sort of wear down as they get used. Jewelers use them a lot. I also will use really fine diamond files to keep edges from getting too rounded off and then felt wheels or points with different kinds of polishing compounds or flitz. I've got a lot of different tricks and tools and doo dads and junk. I tinker with everything... not just guns

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Equal opportunity shooter

Those scratches in the side like that can be pretty normal with the M&P system. its where a milling on the slide hits that part of the trigger to kick it into reset. sometimes those milings are a bit sharper than others. It looks worse than it is. Once they are cut in they usually don't get any worse and I usually just hit them with polish to smooth them out. you can also make minor adjustments to move the nub out of they way a little bit if its scratching too bad. The one pictured is pretty bad. all of mine M&P's have had that to some degree.

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Equal opportunity shooter

Trigger should be here and installed by tonight I'm going to clean up everything ad I go sand polish anything I missed. I did all the polishing with it assembled.

One thing I just thought of that I don't know you ever discussed (or realized) is the install of the USB (striker block)... do you already have a means for removing the rear sight? unlike glock, which is really easy to disassemble, the M&P's require you to drift out the rear site and access the s-block from the top of the slide. Luckily you only have to do it once but its still the hardest part of the install.

I'm hoping you already knew about that and have the means to do it but if you don't want to do it right now and just wanna get the rest of it done first you can leave the factory one in there for right now. the duty\carry kits will function just fine with the factory S-block without any issues, just not quite as buttery as the apex.

If you do have the set up to remove the sight then I will give you one last tip to check the striker block pocket thoroughly for any burrs or grit and make sure to clean it out really well prior to re-install. Some of the older models were notorious for having a light burr or some grit from manufacturing in there causing more of that gritty trigger feeling.

Have Fun!!

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Equal opportunity shooter

My 2.0 compact had light burring of the striker block hole. The striker block hole intersects with a place in the striker hole. Apparently, after cutting one, the other is cut and that intersecting cut leaves burrs around the edges of the previously cut hole.

Yes sir I've already changed out the rear sights. I wanted to do the kit on my shield as well but was scared. Now that I've done the 2.0, I think I'll do the shield

Waiting to hear how it all goes on your install...

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All went well. Getting the trigger pin through the frame, everything else and through the spring was the hardest part. I polished everything i didn't get to the other day while I had the chance. I actually don't mind the apex springs, I'm sure they'll lighten up as I shoot anyways, but they aren't bad. They feel "positive and consistent" I guess you could say. Like a nice car shock...

Polishing and geometry look good? Don't know how much smoothing with a file and sandpaper I can do before I screw things up...

Trigger

Looks very good! How's it feel now?

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