Hey all,

I just purchased a Shield in .40 with factory night sights on it and threw a set of Talon grips on it (my first time using them and they are really nice - Got the rubberized ones for concealed carry) and I really like the firearm. This is the 1.0 version as I honestly didn't even know S&W came out with a 2.0 version until seeing the threads here today, but I just got it like two weeks ago.

Anyway, I took it out to the range last Sunday to put some rounds through it to see how it performed and it appears that the factory sights are off to the left. Honestly, I have never had this happen before. On any firearm I have ever purchased the factory sights have been dead on. This was 50 factory rounds (Federal Champion 180gr ammo) at seven yards. The couple of flyers at the bottom was because I was messing around and shooting fast for one mag of five. But the rest were normal shooting.

Anyway, it appears to me that I'm going to have to adjust my sights and get my pattern moved to the right a bit to be dead on for the bullseye. I have a 40c with factory night sights and I aim it the same way and I'm dead center with the shots. Same ammo.

Question is...which sight should I have moved? Should I move the rear sight or the front sight? I'm going to borrow a friend's sight moving tool because I reallllly didn't want to hammer on my sights with a brass punch. That just makes me super nervous. I figured a sight moving tool would be a safer bet.

I'm guessing the best thing to do is take the tool with me to the range, make a small adjustment, put the slide back onto the frame, load it up and shoot maybe 20-25 rounds to verify where they are now hitting and then unload and make further adjustments if necessary?

Thanks in advance for the help/info.
Mat

Attached Images

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Mat - M&P 40c & 40 Shield

One of my PC shields was that way. It was easy to tell which to move because the rear sight was not centered in the dovetail on the slide. Centered that up, and all is well. Not too impressed that it needed the adjustment from the factory, though, especially on a PC gun.

Jejb - I'll check it again. From what I saw off hand, it looked like both seemed to be centered, but I know the rear didn't have much on each side to be off center. Just barely a sliver on each side, so maybe I need a magnifying glass to really look at it and use my caliper that I use for reloading to truly verify if it is off one way or another. I wouldn't think I'd need to move it that much because it seems pretty close.

But I do agree with you, considering this is marketed as a carry gun, I would expect that it should be right on, but then again, it is mass produced and things can go wrong. Hopefully it is a quick and minor correction.

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Mat - M&P 40c & 40 Shield

Are you anticipating recoil on a lighter gun and pushing into it a bit?

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Eccentric old coot

That's a very good target, so...
1. Read your manual.
2. Your Shield has a driftable FRONT sight ONLY.
3. Do NOT move the rear sight.

Per your target, you would move the front sight in the OPPOSITE direction of where you want the group to move. Looking at the slide from the rear, push the front sight to the LEFT. That will cause your group to move to the right on the target.

Don't rush to adjust sights! Before you move the sight, put another 100 rounds through the gun. Shoot at a longer distance of 15 yards. Some causes of your group hitting left can be:
1. Too much finger on the trigger. Put just the pad of your trigger finger on the trigger.
2. Trigger needs to smooth out a little. Shoot more rounds.
3. Flinching when anticipating the shot.

I have 4 Shield 40's and they all group like yours to the left unless I concentrate on holding my sights centered; don't flinch; and keep less finger on the trigger. I never had to adjust any of my sights.

Most Shields shoot straight right out of the box. It's the operator who induces the error.

FWIW.

I don't think so. Of course it is definitely possible, but I don't think so. I'm sure it's lighter than my 40c, but I don't do this with my 40c. I also didn't do that with my Kahr CW380 that I just sold either. Of course it didn't have the recoil that the 40 has either. However, even my first few shots were off left and that was before I felt the recoil of the firearm. I don't change my grip or stance any differently from shooting the 40c vs the 40 Shield. That's why I wouldn't think it would be me anticipating. I am a shooting instructor, but that doesn't mean I can't and don't make mistakes either. So, I appreciate the thoughts and I'll take it back out and try again and try super slow, maybe even at 5 yds to see if it is me, but I don't think so to be honest.

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Mat - M&P 40c & 40 Shield

Nonuthin - I appreciate the info. I'll wait to adjust the sight then. Like I said, I've never had to adjust the factory sights before, so as you and Iggy said, maybe I'm off. Maybe the gun has to just settle in (it was the first 50 rounds through it) and maybe it is both me and the gun settling. Maybe it just is a bit touchier than my other firearms regarding me pulling or pushing with my finger and I don't know it. I don't know. I usually don't have that issue with my 40c, XDm 40 competition or XD 9 full size, but every firearm is different, even within the same model.

So, I'll just give it a good cleaning, take it back out and throw another 100 rounds through it and maybe try some from a shorter distance of 5 yds and some from a longer distance, as you suggest, and see how it reacts. Plus, concentrate heavily on my grip and trigger pull to see if I am flinching or pulling/pushing. I appreciate the info and suggestions. (thumbs up) Maybe I can get back out to the range this weekend and see what goes and update the thread with new targets.

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Mat - M&P 40c & 40 Shield

Same effect happened to me when I first shot the 9/40 Shields. In my case, it's because the grip is so much thinner/smaller than I have been used to (Glocks) and I was using too much trigger finger. I focused on backing out my finger so the first pad was on the trigger and by gripping the butt differently to turn the gun slightly in my hand. That worked for me. Groups centered and no sight adjustment was necessary.

Also, shooting at 15 yards will show up any sight misalignment better than at very close range.

By the way, this group-to-the-left phenomenon with the 9/40 Shields never happens with my 45 Shields. They are always dead center. In my case, I think it's because of the slightly larger grip size that does it for me.

Nonuthin’s response is what I was going to write. I was doing the same thing when I got mine. I had been use to shooting a bigger gun (1911), and I was wrapping my trigger finger way too far around the trigger. I wasn’t use to such a small slim gun. Grip the gun without thinking about it (make sure it’s empty), and look where your finger is.

Mark

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M&P 9 Shield
M&P 15 Sport

Nonuthin & Mark - Good point. I didn't think about it being a way slimmer gun than any of the others I have owned. The only other one that was close was my Kahr CW380 and although I did shoot it fairly recently, it is modeled differently.

So it is possible that I am putting too much finger into the trigger and not realizing it because I'm trying to get a good purchase on the gun because it is much thinner than I'm used to, especially for an M&P. Maybe it is more mental than anything (thinking M&P, double stack, thicker grip, so I put more finger into it).

Mark - I will try your suggestion tonight with an empty gun and see where my finger ends up. You're right that maybe I am getting closer to the first knuckle than usual. Usually I'm always in the middle pad of my trigger finger and I suggest that to my students as well, but with this being a much thinner gun and me being able to wrap my hands/fingers around it more, I might be using more finger than I realize.

I also have Talon grips on it and I've never had them on any firearm before, but I did that because I was hoping they would help with the 40 recoil a bit more. But they were pretty much super thin when I put them on, so I don't think that would have caused this issue.

This is why I start threads like this because others see things I don't think of or see because they are outside of the box. I appreciate the responses. I will try handling the gun tonight and see where my trigger finger lies without thinking about it and hopefully I can get to the range this weekend and put at least another 50 down range at 15 yrds and see where they end up while I make sure that I pay attention to my trigger finger for each round and see how it goes.

I'll update as I go. Thanks again!

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Mat - M&P 40c & 40 Shield

I was also going to write about too much trigger finger because of the thinner grip. I've been experimenting with an H&K VP9SK (which comes with optional back AND side panels). I found that the right combination of panels puts just the right amount of finger on the trigger and made a huge difference in hitting 10 inch plates from 25 yards (which is quite a challenge for this old guy).

Before you get all obsessed with your finger placement, shoot your new Shield from a bench rest. My Shield .45 consistently shot left when new. Was it me or the was it the front sight? (Only the front sight is adjustable on the Shield.) To answer that question, I shot it from a stable bench rest at 20 yards. While it grouped well, every shot was 3-4 inches left of the bullseye, which confirmed that the sight was off. A friendly range officer offered to have it adjusted for me, and within 30 minutes it was dead on. I've really enjoyed shooting it (accurately) ever since.

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What, me worry?

Well, I did actually check my finger placement as I just pulled it from the holster (unloaded, of course) and my finger was way further in than normal. Normally I use the pad of my finger, but my finger was in almost to my first knuckle. So, that was definitely different.

I did the same thing with my XD, XDm and 40c and the pad of my finger was in the middle of the trigger, like "normal".

So, I do have a feeling that it is me and not the sights. Although, I'm not totally ruling it out, as swsig mentioned. Unfortunately I don't have a solid bench for a handgun rest (or rifle rest actually...need to get one). So, I can use a makeshift one at the range (bags, but not a super solid one), to see if that helps to see if it is the sights, but I have a feeling it is me.

Just seems weird because my Kahr CW380 was super thin and small (a MUCH smaller grip/gun) and I shot that one dead center from the same yardage without an issue. Of course not as much recoil, but still. Finger placement should have been the same and it had a LONG trigger pull. Smooth, but long. The trigger pull is MUCH better on this 40 Shield. So, that's what makes me think the sights still might be a touch off.

But this weekend I'm going back to the range and will put some more rounds down range at 15 yds and see how it goes when I make sure the pad of my finger is in the middle of the trigger as I normally shoot. I will also see if I can use some sort of rest and see if that helps. If it's off, then I'll adjust. Maybe I'll get lucky and they will have a sight adjustment tool there.

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Mat - M&P 40c & 40 Shield

R1 Demon,
Justsomething to think about. Your very good grouping is definitely a bit to the left of center, and that would increase at a longer distance, all things staying the same. Not great for competition shooting. But definitely minute of bad guy! If you said, I missed seeing the distance you shot this target group. Like you, I'd want my grouping centered over the POA at the target. But if you were shooting that group at close distance, and IF you find the front sight needs some adjustment, I'd say it sure won't need much at all!

I also agree that when you make the grip/fingerplacement adjustments, you should also shoot the pistol from a good rest, paying particular attention to those same details consistently through a mag full. It should be revealing as to whether or not you need to adjust the sights.

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So long ... Ken

The grouping above is at 7 yards. I agree at 15 yrds or more it would definitely be more left of center and that is what I would be worried about. So, I'm going to try this weekend with one of their rests and also try to ensure my finger placement is proper and see how it goes. I'm going to try both from 7 yards, to duplicate my original target (or hopefully have it on center) and then at 15 yrds to see how it goes that far out.

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Mat - M&P 40c & 40 Shield